Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,250

    Is the Arrow DS3 just a short-travel Cove G-Spot???

    I was checking out Arrow Racings website and came accross their DS3 fs frame. It looks just like it was made by Cove, but w/ out the Easton RAD tubing front triangle- the rear triangle looks almost identical, and has the "around the bb" main pivot. It only has 2.5-4.5" of travel vs. the G-spot's 6", but still seems very similar. Anybody have any idea? Anybody have one, or have pics of one built up complete?- would probably be a Baad dj'er or 4x weapon.
    Schralp it Heavy.

  2. #2
    Authority is dead!
    Reputation: Lucky13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,812
    Isn't Arrow Chromoly? I would think it will be kind of heavy for ds.
    [SIZE=5]For the love of Oi[/size]

    [size=6]Rent a house at Attitash[/size]

  3. #3
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,250
    here's the webpage: http://www.arrowracing.com/framesets/ds3.html
    it's 6061 alu
    Schralp it Heavy.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    would probably be a Baad dj'er or 4x weapon.

    It would probably be a better dj bike than 4x. 4x requires a lot of sprinting. The g-spot pedals bad with that pivot around the bb (unless it has an spv shock...then it pedals decent). Not sure if that frame comes with a newer shock like the dhx though.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,479
    Remember the older Coves weren't RAD. Arrow frames and Cove frames are both made by "Yess". According to Gus, from Arrow, all the Coves are coppies of Arrow frames. Arrow did all the R&D.

  6. #6
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,250
    It would probably be a better dj bike than 4x.
    I was talking about the Arrow w/ short travel, not the Cove, but still, why would they sell it as a dual slalom bike, and recommend and 3.5" travel fork? but yeah, I agree that the bob factor is pretty bad, unless you put a platform shock on.

    I knew the tubing for the G-spot was made by Yess, didn't know about the Arrow. I had no idea the DS3 was before the G-spot, makes sense though, they just extended the travel more for fr. Is this frame essentially a "catalog" bike from Yess, are they made in Taiwan?- not that it really matters to me, just wondering what the deal is. What other frames are made by Yess??
    Schralp it Heavy.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    I was talking about the Arrow w/ short travel, not the Cove
    Since the suspension design on the Arrow and the Cove are the same they are going to have similar ride characteristics whether or not it's short travel. I mention the cove cause that's what I've ridden a few times and worked on. The bearings around the bb are a pain to keep properly torqued and expensive to replace as well. The guys at go-ride had one of those Arrow's in their shop a few years ago. They may know more about it. It's an older design that doesn't really compare with the new stuff IMO.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: acme5432one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    109
    That frame has some ugly welding up arounf the head tube, kinda sketchy looking.
    Florida: America's Giant Wang

  9. #9
    where's the kick stand?
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    675
    Arrow says that they were the first to use the triangle in a bike frame design. I like their company personally, good customer service and stuff. Go to go-ride and find the page that shows the employees rides, (I would post it but dont know how.) scott from go ride has one, or did, Im not sure he still does. They seem like they would be good for dj and suff though.
    live to ride, ride to live

    R.I.P. Dimebag Darrell

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,479
    You could run them singlespeed since the chain length will remain constant. With a spv style shock and the platform threshold set high they should pedal fine.
    Arrow's pro, Darryl Young is from my town, Portland. I see him on his Arrows occasionally.

  11. #11
    bog
    bog is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,039

    Cove and Arrow on crack?

    Those around-the-bb pivots do not isolate chain forces from the pedals. They make for a mighty mushy feeling ride because the suspension gets compressed with every pedal stroke. You'd have to have your platform set super high to make it pedal well.

  12. #12
    user-created
    Reputation: singletrack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,181
    It has a Cove derailler hanger on it....

  13. #13
    user-created
    Reputation: singletrack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,181
    Quote Originally Posted by bog
    Those around-the-bb pivots do not isolate chain forces from the pedals. They make for a mighty mushy feeling ride because the suspension gets compressed with every pedal stroke. You'd have to have your platform set super high to make it pedal well.
    You've got it all backwards. Pedal feedback is *eliminated*. If you try to stand and crank, then yeah it'll feel mushy - just like any other bike.

  14. #14
    bog
    bog is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,039
    Pedal feedback is not eliminated. A pivot in line with the chainline, not the bb, eliminate pedal feedback. Higher pivots like a Bullit cause the pedals cause the chain tension to go high and pull on the cranks, lower pivots like the the G-Spot cause the chain tension to decrease causing the cranks to rotate forward. Don't be fooled by the marketing. Other bikes such as the VPP and FSR (both true 4 bar linkages) act differently than these swingarm bikes.
    Here's a simple test to try:

    1/ grab the front brake
    2/ put the cranks in the 3/9 o'clock positions
    3/ push down on the 3 o'clock cranks with your foot
    4/ push down on the rear suspension

    You'll notice on the G-Spot that the cranks want to rotate forward and on the Bullit they get pulled backwards. Pretty simple engineering when you break it down in a diagram.

    A swingarm bike with a properly designed floating brake, with a single chainring (with the chainline in line with the pivot) will be totally neutral.

  15. #15
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,250
    I thought that you could essentially make the G-spot a single-speeder because the chain tension remains the same throughout the whole susp. stroke (I could be wrong though)??? This would mean absolutely no pedal feedback from susp. otherwise your chain would fall off from lack of tension once the susp cycled, or the chain would break, like on a Bullit from increasing tension.
    btw- I always though "Chainline" was seen from the top of the drivetrain and referred to how straight your chain was relative to what gear it is on the cassette, or even an SS, and the front ring??? having nothing to do w/ susp. Just like the new X-type RF cranks have an adjustable "chainline" w/ spacers you put inbetween the bb shell and bearing for example.
    Schralp it Heavy.

  16. #16
    bog
    bog is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,039
    Yep, you can make a G-Spot a single speeder but chain tension is different than what can be called the effective chain length. The chain length stays constant with the G-Spot design but it'll definitely have pedal feedback.
    As far as chainline wasn't talking about the horizontal chainline (what most people talk about when using the word chainline) looking from the top of the bike but the line that you see as the chain goes from the chainring to the cogs. The farther the chain/chainring intersection is from the pivot, the more pedal feedback and chain tension change you get when the suspension cycles. That's why a Bullit has major pedal kickback when you're in the granny ring but rides very neutrally when/if you ride in the big ring (if there is one which is rare). The FSR creates an almost vertical axle path so it pedals nicely in all gear combos with only a little pedal kick. The VPP is also like this but with a little more pedal kickback because it uses chain tension to yank the back in towards the bb when it's not far into it's travel. As a former owner or a Bullit and a current owner of a Blur and VPFree it's incredibly obvious when you ride them pretty much back to back.

Similar Threads

  1. How about Blur vs. Mount Vision?
    By Jetstream in forum Bike and Frame discussion
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 10-24-2004, 08:12 AM
  2. Looking for a tough short travel fork
    By Severum in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-30-2004, 05:22 PM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-02-2004, 07:19 AM
  4. Cove Handjob & fork travel
    By jonath in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-07-2004, 02:20 PM
  5. how much travel is my spot getting really?
    By tony0643 in forum Turner
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-13-2004, 10:41 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •