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  1. #1
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    160mm fork on 10' DB mission 2????

    Thinking about replacing the 150mm fox fork on my Mission with a 160mm fox talas. Is this ok to do? Would love to have the on the fly lock down ability and the extra travel wouldnt hurt either since ive been doin some bigger hits lately. Just kind of worried if it will screw up the geometry, HT angle and what not. Any feedback would be great. Thanks in advance

  2. #2
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    Nope. Won't screw up the geo. HA on mine with a Lyrik 160mm is 67 degrees, which is still pretty steep IMO. Besides...the '10 M4 comes stock with a 160mm fork

  3. #3
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    no worries
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 160mm fork on 10' DB mission 2????-dsc02127.jpg  

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  4. #4
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    you could go with a 180
    2011 transition 250
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  5. #5
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    sweet good to know. Yea i was thinkin about the 180 but i still climb alot with this bike so im thinkin the 160 will be bout right. Can only seem to find the talas with the 160/120 option instead of the 160/130/100 option like whats on the mission 4. Can you only get that fork if you get the m4? Also the 160 has the 20mm thru axle as opposed to the 15mm. Does this mean im going to have to invest in a new hub as well or do they make a conversion kit or something?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by YamiRider1316 View Post
    sweet good to know. Yea i was thinkin about the 180 but i still climb alot with this bike so im thinkin the 160 will be bout right. Can only seem to find the talas with the 160/120 option instead of the 160/130/100 option like whats on the mission 4. Can you only get that fork if you get the m4? Also the 160 has the 20mm thru axle as opposed to the 15mm. Does this mean im going to have to invest in a new hub as well or do they make a conversion kit or something?
    You will definitely need a new front wheel for 20mm TA

    I have a Lyrik U-Turn 160-115mm. I've tried all the settings just out of curiosity. 120mm on a Mission feels weird to me, even for climbing. 145mm is about the lowest I can tolerate. 160mm travel feels just fine for climbing. You just need to adjust the cockpit accordingly with a forward saddle position and low handlebars. At least that what works for me.

    My #1 recommdation for Fox is the 160mm Van 36. It has the RC2 damper instead of RLC, which gives you more useful adjustments. If you really want air and travel adjust, consider the TALAS 180. RC2 damper, 180mm for DH bombing, and 140mm for general riding/climbing. Or forget Fox altogether and get one of the Lyriks. All of those are sweet

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    Also the head angle wont change from a 160mm 36 and a 180mm 36. I believe they both have the same axle to crown height.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bballboy388 View Post
    Also the head angle wont change from a 160mm 36 and a 180mm 36. I believe they both have the same axle to crown height.
    No. The Fox 180mm forks are almost as long as 40s at 200mm.

    545mm - Fox 36 160mm
    565mm - Fox 36 180mm
    571mm - Fox 40 200mm


    http://www.sicklines.com/2010/04/17/...-180mm-and-40/

    Now I should add that longer travel means more sag, which in turn means less difference in effective ride height than the static a2c specs suggest.

  9. #9
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    ah jeez now you got me thinkin about the 180. Decisions, decisions. Is there a big weight difference between the 160 and the 180? And wont the 180 put a lot of added stress on the frame? Im a bigger guy and ride pretty hard and i dont think i could afford a new frame if i broke one. But the extra travel would be really really nice especially given the terrain around here. Also, im going to be throwin a hammerschmidt on as well when i make this swap and im trying to counter the weight gain with xx components but with the added weight of the fork im a bit leery of my bike turning into a tank lol. Any thoughts?

  10. #10
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    guess i could of just checked the fox website. Seems to be a little under a 1 pound difference between the 2. Hmmm.

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    Sorry about that guess I read that wrong somewhere.

  12. #12
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    BTW The M4 and 2011 Talas is only a 2 step 160/120, the DB site was wrong on that, and it is a RLC not a RC2, I like the 2 travel options but hate RLC Why do I need lockout, I want C adjustments!! That was the only thing that was a surprise, again I much prefer 120/160 and it makes sense and less issues! Get a 180/140 Talas or the 160/120, GO Rc2 IMO
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    I've ridden both setups quite extensively (2011 goat, 2010 Mission). I'm 6'3 240 and ride everything from big jumps to xc on the Mission. As far as which fork to go with. I'd stick with the 160 because of it's versatility. The fox 180 Float really is an amazing fork...really amazing. And yes it is almost exactly 1" higher (160=22" from center of axle to top of crown/23" for the 180 +/-) than the 160. To be totally honest, I really think the Mission platform with the 180 is superbly dialed with the taller fork for jumps, freeride, gravity stuff, and even xc if it's not too steep. It really depends on what you're doing on it. With the 160 it is pretty balanced and a more all around feel. It is still plenty capable on big jumps and FR stuff but gives up a bit to the 180 in feel and overall confidence when things get serious. Good luck!

  14. #14
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    thanks for the input everybody. At this point im def leaning towards the 180. Now I just gotta wait for payday.

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    Dude stop thinking and buy the 180!!! I beat the sh1t out of my scapegoat with the 180 on it. Bike came with 160..... If you wanna climb find fork with a lock out
    2011 transition 250
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    Just remember that while the 180mm fork will slacken the head angle it will also raise the BB height considerably. This will make the bike feel tippy and hard to find traction on fast corners, and make it feel really tall. I have a 160mm float on my Mission and am going to drop the front travel to 150mm and use an offset bushing in the rear to keep the head tube angle the same. Right now with the 160mm fork and no offset bushing my BB height is 14.25, which IMO is way too tall for an all mountain bike. I am shooting for somewhere between 13.5 and 13.75 BB height after the changes. This should make it feel more stable and comfortable at speed. It's not the amount of travel that counts as much as the quality, and the overall bike geometry.

  17. #17
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    The Angleset is another good option. My Mission's HA is at 67 degrees now, which is too steep IMO. The 1 degree cup would drop that to 66, lower the BB a bit, and keep the seat tube angle steep for good pedalling.

  18. #18
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    yeah the BB height is one of the reasons why I'm still considering the 160. Seems like with the 180 that would put the BB height in the 15" range which seems really up there.

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    Not to beat a dead horse but...

    If you are running a 180mm fork you most likely will need to be running a tad more sag to match the plush performance and use of the 180. Don't get caught up in the numbers. Get caught up in the ride. If the bike is setup right it is one sweet ride that rails the corners! No joke.

  20. #20
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    Well I've settled on the 180 talas. Is the kashima coating worth an extra 200$? Also is there any other ways i could counter the BB height increase?

  21. #21
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    An Angleset would lower the BB a bit, but using that with a 180mm fork would be an awful idea. You'd probably end up with a 64 degree HA.

    Don't bother with kashima unless you want the gold bling. Better to save that $$ for a PUSH tune in a year or 2 when the fork needs its first service.

  22. #22
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    what about offset shock bushings? anybody have any experience with those? Given the knucklebox set up it looks like i could really only fit one in the top mount. Would that even make a difference?

  23. #23
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    Same problem. Lower and slacker. Slacker is not good if you already have a 180mm fork, unless you only want to do DH. How much do you care about keeping the BB low? If that's a big priority, I really think you'd be happier with a 160mm coil fork and angleset or offset bushings. The Lyrik U-turn DH on my bike feels very similar to a Fox Van 180 other than height and weight. The main reason IMO to choose between 160mm and 180mm forks these days is to get the geometry you want. Actual suspension performance is pretty close either way.

  24. #24
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    I would get the 160. It's all you need on that bike. I have a 160 on mine and I put it through more than most and it's been great. A 180 would make the BB too tall IMO and not balance well with the rear end.

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  25. #25
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    Yea but with the 180 couldnt i just leave it locked down to the 140 for all around riding which will keep the BB height down and then if i wanna huck it or bomb some DH flip it back to the 180? Or am i completely off in this assumption?

  26. #26
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    Yes, you could do that. The question is what kind of geometry do you want for DH? Tall and slack with a 180mm fork and standard headset, or low and slack with 160mm fork and angleset. Either way is fine. You decision should be based on your terrain and riding style. I personally prefer low.

    I've mentioned angleset several times. I should make a note about that. The lower part of the head tube will need to be reamed from 55mm to 56mm. That can be done with a Park Tools part and shop-quality facing equipment. When I spoke with Cane Creek about it, they didn't seem to think taking 0.5mm worth of material from the headtube would be a problem.

    http://www.parktool.com/product/55-95mm-reamer-789
    http://www.parktool.com/product/facing-cutter-690-xxl
    http://www.parktool.com/product/cent...ne-adaptor-750
    http://www.parktool.com/product/head...ing-set-htr-1b

  27. #27
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    Another note...

    The Mission performs great for downhill and hucking. I'm quite happy with the geometry and suspension performance. However, riding that way on a daily basis will probably cause the downtube to crack. I've killed several frames that way. I'm not saying the Mission is weak or fragile. Just giving a reminder that taking a lightweight 6" frame and pushing it to its limits often will destroy it eventually. All my buddies who ride like me end up using their warranties. That includes the Nomad, Covert, Enduro SL, Reign X, and others. Only the real freeride/DH bikes seem to hold up well in the long run. Like the Bottlerocket, Demo, Mongoose Pinner, Norco DH, etc

    BTW, DB is usually pretty reasonable about warranties.

  28. #28
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    yeah wont be hucking it on a regular basis. Just want it to be able to handle the park when we head that way which isnt to often. Really wish they had the 160 talas with the rc2. Seems like that would be the perfect fork.

  29. #29
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    Any reason you want a Fox? The Lyrik 2 step does pretty much the same as a TALAS at a similar weight. The 2-steps comes stock with the regular Mission Control damper, but that can be upgraded to the DH damper (super pluch and controlled) for about $80 and a couple minutes of time.

  30. #30
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    I have been giving a serious look at X-fusion Vengeance as well and for the money its a solid offering. At 160mm, 36mm stanchion, 20mm thru axle and a touch over 5 pounds- you can find them for under $500 if you look around on the net brand new.

    Edit: that price is for the RC, but the HLR new for about $600 still great price for a great performing fork.
    Last edited by mojojojoaf; 07-11-2011 at 10:19 AM.

  31. #31
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    I would seriously be considering the X-fusion Vengeance if it had the 2 position travel options. I really need a fork that i can lock down on the fly for when im going up hill due to the wide variety of terrain around here. The Lyrik 2 step on the other hand seems to be the ulti-fork. 2 position travel adjust, high and low speed compression. Multiple spring options. Definitely considering it now. Anybody have any personal experience with the Lyrik? Ive always ran fox shocks on all my toys but if the Lyrik is the better option which as far as features goes it seems to be...

  32. #32
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    I have a Lyrik U-turn. It's an amazing fork! Mine is so smooth & plush that just gently setting the bike on the floor gets a couple mm of compression. No stiction at all. Lyrik air forks I've ridden have a little bit of stiction, but still not bad especially with Enduro seals and regular servicing (about 2 times per season).

    The regular Motion Control (RC2L) is what comes standard with all 2-step and u-turn forks. That's probably what you'll want anyways becuase of Floodgate. That's a platform feature that serves pretty much the same function as propedal. Floodgate can be turned on/off and it's effectiveness in the on position can also be adjusted. The only drawback (for me at least) is that Floodgate can never be completely turned off. The "off" setting still has a little bit of platform feel. I never used Floodgate anyways, so I upgraded to the DH damper (RC2DH). Since then, my Lyrik feels just like a mini Boxxer. A bit less controlled and stiff, but still pretty darn sweet.

    And Lyriks are modular. Any Lyrik can be converted to any other with the right parts.

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    Anybody have any experience with the Magura Wotan? Does it have the high/low speed compression adjust?All it says on the website is "adjustable platform compression damping" and im not sure what that refers too. The specs seem decent though its got 120/160 travel adjust options. Reviews seem to be good as well, though it is a bit on the heavy side. Picking a fork is hard....

  34. #34
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    No personal experience. I thought about it too when I was fork shopping, but decided I didn't want anything with air. If not for that, I might have gotten one. The Wotan's features are pretty similar to the Lyrik 2-step. Difference mostly seems to be stiffness (Wotan is supposed to be stiffer), price, and weight.

    Do consider availabilty of internal parts. Rockshox stuff can be ordered from anyone who deals with BTI. Even little bit and peices like screws. I don't know how easy it is to get Magura parts. May be as simple as calling the company like Manitou used to be. Just something to look into before buying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YamiRider1316 View Post
    Anybody have any experience with the Magura Wotan? Does it have the high/low speed compression adjust?All it says on the website is "adjustable platform compression damping" and im not sure what that refers too. The specs seem decent though its got 120/160 travel adjust options. Reviews seem to be good as well, though it is a bit on the heavy side. Picking a fork is hard....
    Totem 180, marz 66 180, domain 180, 36 talas 180, Hell if ya tight on cash try sr suntour durolux. Put a 180 on it; you want regret it!
    2011 transition 250
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  36. #36
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    After reading the thread I just will put in my 2 cents...
    Riding my Mission 4 with the 120/160 Talas for a few months on all types of terrain I am really liking it a lot. On the techy gnar side of things the 160 works so well and I just barely use all my travel unless its a BIG hit The fork is well matched with the rear travel.
    But the 120 option for XC and climbing is where I wasn't sure about the fork until I got some time in the saddle and WOW it is nice. I like having the option to not feel so "slacked out" and it really flies and handles well. The Fork is perfect match for 150mm of rear travel. I usually use PP 2 or 3 with the fork in 120 and like have pp1 for some fine tune options on aggresive trails in 160 mode...

    I see the 180 good for only DH, IMO I can see where 140/180 would work if you ride DH a bunch...and some climbs or AM, but 160 feel more balanced with the rear end of the Mission for most AM riding from personal experience, I would feel way to slacked out with a 180 and some short climbs would be a bit tricker then with 160, and you'd have to run a lot of sag to get full travel too. IMO

    It's your call
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  37. #37
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    Another vote for the X-Fusion Vengeance HLR. I have one on my bike and it rocks! If your hung up about the travel adj, next years fork is going 170mm with external travel adj, and a lower axle to crown height.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 160mm fork on 10' DB mission 2????-mission-3-complete-1.jpg  


  38. #38
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    I have my Vengeance RC on order should be here end of this week beginning of next week- pics to follow.

  39. #39
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    Yeah i actually settled on the Vengeance HLR. Gonna hold out for the 12' version. Contacted X Fusion and they said its slated to be out in December and they would contact me when available. So now just gotta play the waiting game. Luckily December isn't to far out.

  40. #40
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    I just got my first ride on my X Fusion Vengeance and thought I might add my comments here as someone might find them helpful.

    The 160mm travel X Fusion Vengeance RC are nice. Very nice. Construction and quality are top notch (time will be the true test of each of these) but the finish is superb. Adjustment is easy and intuitive, the low volume air spring gives it a great supple ride and small amounts of adjustment have a big affect on how the fork performs. NICE.

    WOW 160mm is noticeably longer than 145mm and going from my Nixons which I loved to this more modern fork was so different that I almost stacked it twice. I put about 10 miles on the new forks and adjusted the air down twice from the recommended pressure based on my rider weight (250lb with full h2o pack and gear) which is 75-80psi. I believe I am down to 70psi now. Rides great. The front end is higher now so I am going with a zero degree 50mm stem vs. the 50mm 10* stem I had before to compensate. I have been running my RP23 on my Mission a touch low so brought that psi up a bit 235psi ( I hate the hi volume air can- will replace asap).

    The ride was excellent, it was supple and once I had the fork dialed in it absorbed everything. I actually didnt use much of the low speed compression adjustment as I wanted to see how it affected the fork on the climb and liked how the front wheel absorbed the bumps and allowed me to keep my momentum while climbing. The fork is obviously taller so climbing was a bit trickier as I had to get over the front wheel just a little bit more in the steeper sections. This is where I also increased the rear shock psi so I didnt sit back in the shock travel so much (yeah a lock out or near lock out would help so much more than prodpedal- which is why I am considering a lo volume RS RT3)...

    UM ok going down. Ouch. You remember your first suspension bike and how you got travelling down your favorite trail only to realize you were now travelling 5-10mph faster than before and you missed turns and got into trouble until you adjusted? yeah this was like a whole new bike, steering had to be handled differently, speed increased, body position adjusted... it was great. I actually felt slower on a trail I know really well until I realized I was into the turns with more speed and kept having to brake hard because my timing was off.

    Very happy with the purchase. It will be interesting to see how I handle some of the near vertical climbs at SlickRock later this year - but I know one thing Upper Porcupine is going to be a friggin blast.

  41. #41
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    Oh yeah stiff. yes they are. With 36mm stanchions they track quite well indeed.

  42. #42
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    Thank you for the update on the vengeance. When are you headin to slickrock? I was thinkin about heading out that way for a couple of weeks in Oct.

  43. #43
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    Oct might be our date as well- temps should be cooler and hopefully a lot less people. maybe not.

    I will also add that I bought the 1 1/8th steer tube version. 1 1/8th has been stiff enough for years and I have never had an issue with it - ever. I am and have always been a bigger rider 185lbs at my fittest and now 235lbs at my oldest (LOL). and 1 1/8 has never failed on me.

    Also 1 /18 will fit everything, 1.5 tapered, 1.5, giants new 1 1/4 tapered, and the tried and true 1 1/8th - I have zero stack reducers for 1.5, I have standard reducers for 1.5, and Giant will release their stupid 1 1/4 upper reducers later so no issues - I can put these forks on many more frames to come with out worry.

    I ride what I want to ride when I want to ride it and how I want to ride it.

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    Lets see some pics!

  45. #45
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    Here it is...I went with a 50mm 0* stem at first and changed out to a 70mm 8* stem just to test the ride position.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 160mm fork on 10' DB mission 2????-dscf0351-1.jpg  

    160mm fork on 10' DB mission 2????-dscf0350-1.jpg  


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