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  1. #1
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    Devinci Atlas, Alloy vs. Carbon, to replace my old Sugar.

    I am in the market to replace my aged, yet trusty old GF Sugar 29er. The one I am on in my avatar pic. Getting into the 8th season on it this year, and it is time for it to go.

    Looking to slack out the front to get behind the suspension more, avoid bob in the rear, shorten the rear a lot from the old GF, and otherwise enjoy.

    I ride in Sun Valley, Idaho, where the trails are mostly flowy single track with a little tech here and there. The 100-110 in the rear with 120-140 in the front 29er is the perfect trail bike for me. As I said, I want to tighten up the handling over the very, very old geometry of the old Fisher, and slacken out the front. I want to retain all the other 29'er characteristics of rolling, etc., as the Sugar improved my climbing substantially, and descending too up to a point. I chase some serious cyclists in a weekly club ride. When I went 29 I went from at or near the rear to climb up into the group, particularly climbing. Hoping to build on that, and improve my descending as well.

    Looking at the Devinci Atlas, and considering between the alloy and the carbon. If I get the alloy with a lower build (which is what I normally do), then I can swap stuff out as it wears out, or before if I just have to, such as adding a dropper post on the low level build, and putting a wider bar with a little rise.

    Here, performance has a carbon and an alloy together for comparison. As I said, I usually buy a lower to middle end build, and replace stuff as I go to get the bike I want. I generally hold onto a bike for around 7 years.

    Performance Bike - Product Comparison

    Thoughts? Personal experiences? Thanks!

  2. #2
    Nat
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    I think to CF frame looks much nicer than the AL frame, FWIW.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I think to CF frame looks much nicer than the AL frame, FWIW.
    Agreed. But at around $1,700 more as between these two, (I will have to see what is actually available. They don't have my size at Performance in the Alloy) that would be a lot of dough to use on parts, etc., or to save just getting into a bike. Looking at the components, the one thing on the alloy I don't like much is the Avid Elixr brake system. Those darned brakes always end up needing being bled. Perhaps the shimanos are better. Also, need to find out about the wheelsets. that would be the other big thing. Don't really care about the x7 vs. SLX that much. Either will work. And I will replace stuff there as it wears out.

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    Also, I have had decent luck with Reba forks in the past (Sugar has one), but don't know if the Fox is that much of an upgrade or not. Would like to be able to convert whatever I get to a little taller if I want too.

  5. #5
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    Just found out that the carbon frame is a little longer reach (maybe about 3/4 inch or the difference between 389 and 401 mm) than the alloy. The difference is in the front part of the frame. That might make a difference in my decision too.
    Last edited by sunvalleylaw; 04-18-2015 at 12:15 PM.

  6. #6
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    That's correct, the carbon is a little bit longer. Personally I went with a carbon frame because it meant I could use a shorter stem. I was lucky and managed to snag a new 2013 frame for $950. There might be more layovers out there if you shop around and want to build yourself.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegard View Post
    That's correct, the carbon is a little bit longer. Personally I went with a carbon frame because it meant I could use a shorter stem. I was lucky and managed to snag a new 2013 frame for $950. There might be more layovers out there if you shop around and want to build yourself.
    That would be tempting. I do want to buy so that I can use the warranty also. Read some stuff that maybe one cannot do so if one builds it themselves.

  8. #8
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    That can't be the case, people wouldn't buy frames on their own if warranty was voided by building it yourself

    You can find more info here, but it's a really long thread:
    Devinci Atlas Carbon

  9. #9
    KgB
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    I think the carbon is the way to go especially specced like that but it doesn't seem like a closeout price, have you looked at buying new? If you come out to Fruita you could Demo both and really see
    DEVINCI
    Atlas Carbon XP 3299.00
    I've been inside too long.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgB View Post
    I think the carbon is the way to go especially specced like that but it doesn't seem like a closeout price, have you looked at buying new? If you come out to Fruita you could Demo both and really see
    DEVINCI
    Atlas Carbon XP 3299.00
    Would love to. Maybe I can arrange a trip down there soon. I would rather have one set up like the RX if possible when I am done.

    DEVINCI

    But not at $4,600.00!!

    The alloy one at $3500.00 looks a little promising.

    DEVINCI

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegard View Post
    That can't be the case, people wouldn't buy frames on their own if warranty was voided by building it yourself

    You can find more info here, but it's a really long thread:
    Devinci Atlas Carbon
    Yeah, that can't be right. I saw that thread and started reading, but it was really, really long.

  12. #12
    KgB
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunvalleylaw View Post
    Would love to. Maybe I can arrange a trip down there soon. I would rather have one set up like the RX if possible when I am done.

    DEVINCI

    But not at $4,600.00!!

    The alloy one at $3500.00 looks a little promising.

    DEVINCI
    Devinci Atlas, Alloy vs. Carbon, to replace my old Sugar.-dsc_3258.jpg

    Just built this one up this week
    I've been inside too long.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgB View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC_3258.jpg 
Views:	187 
Size:	243.2 KB 
ID:	982536

    Just built this one up this week
    Was that a stock build? And any as built weight measurements on the mediums?

  14. #14
    KgB
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunvalleylaw View Post
    Was that a stock build? And any as built weight measurements on the mediums?
    custom build around 27lbs as shown, aluminum with lower spec is around 30lbs
    I've been inside too long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KgB View Post
    custom build around 27lbs as shown, aluminum with lower spec is around 30lbs
    Does that custom build include a dropper post?

  16. #16
    KgB
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunvalleylaw View Post
    Does that custom build include a dropper post?
    well it's custom, this bike no but usually yes
    I've been inside too long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KgB View Post
    well it's custom, this bike no but usually yes
    Thanks, I just couldn't quite tell from the pic.

  18. #18
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    Any closer to a decision?

    Last edited by Vegard; 05-02-2015 at 12:15 PM.

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    I'm curious what you get too as I am also considering replacing my aging Sugar 293 with a bike that has an updated geometry. I've ridden some newer bikes at demo days but haven't been wowed enough to buy one yet.

    Have you ridden a Kona Process or Banshee Phantom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegard View Post
    Any closer to a decision?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegard View Post
    Any closer to a decision?

    No. Now I am getting into it and second guessing. I am coming of an old Gary Fisher Sugar 293, with a long top tube, and long chain stays. I love the idea of shortening up the chain stays, but am worried a bit by a pretty slack seat tube angle, combined with pretty short top tube. Also, I wish the front end was slacker without raising the front end with a longer fork and slackening out the seat tube. I climb here a lot, and do not want wander or wheel lift.

    considering other options including the Rocky bikes, maybe a Tall Boy, or even saving longer and having my buddy Erik over at Alliance bikes build me something like my other buddy Reed got, and get exactly the dimensions and built I want. It will cost me a bit more than a Devinci, etc., but might be worth it. But, I will have to get on board for a 1x set up if I go that way, as that is the way he likes to build 'em. https://www.flickr.com/photos/allian...n/photostream/

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by finnlander View Post
    I'm curious what you get too as I am also considering replacing my aging Sugar 293 with a bike that has an updated geometry. I've ridden some newer bikes at demo days but haven't been wowed enough to buy one yet.

    Have you ridden a Kona Process or Banshee Phantom?
    no. I might be able to get on a Kona, but not sure any where around carries banshee. I want to shorten up the rear end some, keep the rear end travel around 100 - 110 or so, and the front 120-130 or so, and have a fairly slack front end without being too slack in the rear.

  22. #22
    Norđwegr
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunvalleylaw View Post
    No. Now I am getting into it and second guessing. I am coming of an old Gary Fisher Sugar 293, with a long top tube, and long chain stays. I love the idea of shortening up the chain stays, but am worried a bit by a pretty slack seat tube angle, combined with pretty short top tube. Also, I wish the front end was slacker without raising the front end with a longer fork and slackening out the seat tube. I climb here a lot, and do not want wander or wheel lift.

    considering other options including the Rocky bikes, maybe a Tall Boy, or even saving longer and having my buddy Erik over at Alliance bikes build me something like my other buddy Reed got, and get exactly the dimensions and built I want. It will cost me a bit more than a Devinci, etc., but might be worth it. But, I will have to get on board for a 1x set up if I go that way, as that is the way he likes to build 'em. https://www.flickr.com/photos/allian...n/photostream/
    Personally a 23" toptube is what works the best for me with a 40-50mm stem. I run my Atlas with a 140mm in the high setting and I experience no front wheel lift while climbing even steep stuff that's on the very limit of what I can propel myself up.

    Granted with the 140mm in slack though I wouldn't want to climb alot with it, I'd only use that setting for whenever I can get a lift to the top.

    With a 120 or 130mm fork it would be even less likely to do so, but I agree that the sizing is indeed a little odd. If you have the bodily proportions to make it work I bet you'll love it.

    Look into the Evil Following, Banshee Phantom, Trek Remedy/Fuel, Transition Smuggler, SC tallboy. You can't really go wrong with any of these, just a matter of finding what suits you the best. Definitely isn't easy, had the same problem before finishing my Atlas.

  23. #23
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    Well, I am leaning toward an alloy.
    Last edited by sunvalleylaw; 05-07-2015 at 01:48 PM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgB View Post
    well it's custom, this bike no but usually yes
    I am 5'9" with a 30" inseam. Would you put me on a medium?

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    Your thread title is to choose between Davinci models, but have you looked at somethign like a Kona Process 111? From the description of what you like about your current bike, but want shorter stays, travel amount, this bike mike check off all those bikers.

    I don't know who gets the credit, but Kona has a geo on their Process lines of slack HA, long TT, short stems, and short stays. Many compnaies are copying. Some have said this approach is similar to Fisher's Genesis Geo, so maybe a good fit for you.

    Don't know how you would feel about a 1x, but it looks like it comes with a 40 or 42t in the rear...

    KONA BIKES | 2015 BIKES | ENDURO | PROCESS 111

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    Your thread title is to choose between Davinci models, but have you looked at somethign like a Kona Process 111? From the description of what you like about your current bike, but want shorter stays, travel amount, this bike mike check off all those bikers.

    I don't know who gets the credit, but Kona has a geo on their Process lines of slack HA, long TT, short stems, and short stays. Many compnaies are copying. Some have said this approach is similar to Fisher's Genesis Geo, so maybe a good fit for you.

    Don't know how you would feel about a 1x, but it looks like it comes with a 40 or 42t in the rear...

    KONA BIKES | 2015 BIKES | ENDURO | PROCESS 111
    That is an interesting bike. Might have to check it out. I could not find any info on the geometry on the site.

    And, on another note, after our weekly group ride last night, i tried out a couple of the other guys' bikes. First, a Devinci Troy (27.5) set up 1x. It was a large frame with a very wide bar, and felt really long. I adjusted seat height with his dropper post. So I would be getting a medium. But bottom line, I really liked it! Climbed well with that Sugar/Fisher feeling in the rear, where it does not feel gushy or bobby like some Specializeds I have tried, and what I have seen out of some friends' Rip 9's. Did not initially notice it was not a 29er rolling around, and, I felt nicely behind the front suspension, and the bike felt very comfortable, inspiring confidence, for tipping it into the turns. Getting off a too steep front end is a big desire of mine. That Troy may sway me off the 29 platform.

    Then, I tried a buddy's Jet 9 with a 150 fork on it. Visually, it appeared steeper despite the long fork. And though I did not really notice the Troy was not a 29, the Jet 9 just rolled that much easier as I tested on an easy climb back up the road I was using to test. Did not want to tip in or turn nearly as easy as the Troy. So . . . bottom line, I have to ride some more bikes for a bit longer to see what I really want. A 29er that felt like that Troy would be great. But I am a bit afraid that putting too long a fork on an Atlas will make it a little too slack in the seat stay, and make the front wheel a bit light for climbing. I know others have commented that they don't feel that way, but I really need to try one to know for myself how I feel on it. I may have to get down to Fruita somehow.

  27. #27
    Norđwegr
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    Just scroll down to the first crossbar on the site and click geometry, alternatively just scroll all the way down til the orange part.

    The Process is considerably heavier than the other bikes mentioned in here, imho the slack hta angle and the 8lbs frame don't make it a good climber.

  28. #28
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    I sold my Sugar 293 last week and came across a deal on a '13 Trek Rumblefish elite I couldn't pass up. Its not the highest spec but its adequate and I can upgrade when stuff wears out.

    The difference between the Sugar and the Rumblefish is very noticeable. Geometry wise the Rumblefish top tube length is a smidgen shorter than the Sugars, the effective seat tube angle is 1.5 degrees slacker, the chainstays are 15 mm shorter, and the stem is at least 30 mm shorter. I sit further back on the bike and its much easier to get the front end up, which is something that always bothered me about the Sugar. Steering wise, the RF has a 1.7 degrees slacker head angle. With this and the positioning its way more fun on the downhills. Somehow the steering is still quick enough for tight single track. The 51 mm offset fork might have something to do with that. Overall I am very pleased with how it handles vs. Sugar. Not sure how similar the RF and the Devinci are but in general I like the change.

    Besides the geometry the next biggest difference is in stiffness. I chalk that up to the 15mm/12mm through axles and stronger pivots. Its a big improvement in the rocks and off camber turns.

    Nice custom bike your friend has. Does it use the Ventana rear end?

    Quote Originally Posted by sunvalleylaw View Post
    No. Now I am getting into it and second guessing. I am coming of an old Gary Fisher Sugar 293, with a long top tube, and long chain stays. I love the idea of shortening up the chain stays, but am worried a bit by a pretty slack seat tube angle, combined with pretty short top tube. Also, I wish the front end was slacker without raising the front end with a longer fork and slackening out the seat tube. I climb here a lot, and do not want wander or wheel lift.

    considering other options including the Rocky bikes, maybe a Tall Boy, or even saving longer and having my buddy Erik over at Alliance bikes build me something like my other buddy Reed got, and get exactly the dimensions and built I want. It will cost me a bit more than a Devinci, etc., but might be worth it. But, I will have to get on board for a 1x set up if I go that way, as that is the way he likes to build 'em. https://www.flickr.com/photos/allian...n/photostream/

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by finnlander View Post
    I sold my Sugar 293 last week and came across a deal on a '13 Trek Rumblefish elite I couldn't pass up.

    . . .



    Nice custom bike your friend has. Does it use the Ventana rear end?
    Thanks for the heads up on the Rumblefish. And yes, Erik at Alliance uses the Ventana rear end, and places the pivot depending on the need. He makes some pretty sweet titanium and steel bikes, and I have ridden with him for years.

    From his site: Titanium Full Suspension – My personal pivot placement of the Ventana suspension swing arm for improved pedaling characteristics. Your choices of wheel size and rear travel are 29″x 4″, 27.5″x 5″, 27.5″x 5.5″. The front triangle is crafted out of 3/2.5 grade 9 Titanium. Includes a Fox CTD Kashima boost valve Float rear shock, 44mm Machined Headtube, PF30 bottom bracket, and 12mm x 142mm axle. The bike is designed for your riding style, desired handling characteristics, fit, and fork length. The front triangle includes a hand-brushed finish. Optional bead-blasted satin finish upgrade ($75)

    Steel Full Suspension – My personal pivot placement of the Ventana suspension swing arm for improved pedaling characteristics. Your choices of wheel size and rear travel are 29″x 4″, 27.5″x 5″, 27.5″x 5.5″. The front triangle is crafted out of True Temper steel tubing. Includes a Fox CTD Kashima boost valve Float rear shock, 44mm Machined Headtube, PF30 bottom bracket, and 12mm x 142mm axle.The bike is designed for your riding style, desired handling characteristics, fit, and fork length. The front triangle includes a single color powdercoat with two color airbrushed logos.


    Alliance Bicycles | Custom Frames & Bicycles | News

  30. #30
    KgB
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunvalleylaw View Post
    I am 5'9" with a 30" inseam. Would you put me on a medium?
    yes medium
    I've been inside too long.

  31. #31
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    No problem. It isn't so much of an endorsement to find a RF as a report on transitioning from the Sugar to a newer geometry bike. Especially since they don't make the RF anymore.

    Sounds like you have plenty of chances to ride new bikes. Let us know what you end up with.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunvalleylaw View Post
    Thanks for the heads up on the Rumblefish. And yes, Erik at Alliance uses the Ventana rear end, and places the pivot depending on the need. He makes some pretty sweet titanium and steel bikes, and I have ridden with him for years.

    From his site: Titanium Full Suspension – My personal pivot placement of the Ventana suspension swing arm for improved pedaling characteristics. Your choices of wheel size and rear travel are 29″x 4″, 27.5″x 5″, 27.5″x 5.5″. The front triangle is crafted out of 3/2.5 grade 9 Titanium. Includes a Fox CTD Kashima boost valve Float rear shock, 44mm Machined Headtube, PF30 bottom bracket, and 12mm x 142mm axle. The bike is designed for your riding style, desired handling characteristics, fit, and fork length. The front triangle includes a hand-brushed finish. Optional bead-blasted satin finish upgrade ($75)

    Steel Full Suspension – My personal pivot placement of the Ventana suspension swing arm for improved pedaling characteristics. Your choices of wheel size and rear travel are 29″x 4″, 27.5″x 5″, 27.5″x 5.5″. The front triangle is crafted out of True Temper steel tubing. Includes a Fox CTD Kashima boost valve Float rear shock, 44mm Machined Headtube, PF30 bottom bracket, and 12mm x 142mm axle.The bike is designed for your riding style, desired handling characteristics, fit, and fork length. The front triangle includes a single color powdercoat with two color airbrushed logos.


    Alliance Bicycles | Custom Frames & Bicycles | News

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    Your thread title is to choose between Davinci models, but have you looked at somethign like a Kona Process 111? From the description of what you like about your current bike, but want shorter stays, travel amount, this bike mike check off all those bikers.

    I don't know who gets the credit, but Kona has a geo on their Process lines of slack HA, long TT, short stems, and short stays. Many compnaies are copying. Some have said this approach is similar to Fisher's Genesis Geo, so maybe a good fit for you.

    Don't know how you would feel about a 1x, but it looks like it comes with a 40 or 42t in the rear...

    KONA BIKES | 2015 BIKES | ENDURO | PROCESS 111
    Quote Originally Posted by finnlander View Post
    I'm curious what you get too as I am also considering replacing my aging Sugar 293 with a bike that has an updated geometry. I've ridden some newer bikes at demo days but haven't been wowed enough to buy one yet.

    Have you ridden a Kona Process or Banshee Phantom?

    Rode a Process yesterday and loved it. Also tried the Transition, though just in the parking lot, and it seemed like a possibility too. See new thread here: Kona Process 111 vs. Transition Smuggler, I am leaning Kona, speak to me.- Mtbr.com

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