Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jsqueri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    203

    shrinking field?

    Do the racers dwindle as the season progresses? what the heck? I need at least 70 or 80 out there to make my goal of top half! Stoudts I was 32 and just made it, today at Kutztown I'm 32 again and not even close. WTF peaple, where are all the slow pokes?

  2. #2
    upgrade until you suck
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    185
    The upcoming holiday season begets honey-do lists that have increasing importance - in the end those of us at the lower end of the pack find that these take higher priority than spending $20-30 to get stomped in the mud.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jsqueri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    203
    Yeah, I got my list done with plenty of time to get stomped.

  4. #4
    Getaway Cycle Center
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    180

    Can you say Sandbagger

    seems like when it is nice out we all show up....
    but when the weather takes a turn many people hang up their bikes and leave only
    the Die-Hards or the ones who train for this type of racing.
    I am a cat 2 mtn racer and a an overall good biker.
    I have no problem holding my own in a 18+ road ride.....
    In the early season race with 50-100 racers i come in mid field.
    Mid season there are only 50 and i am last.
    By end of the season there are 20 on the line and they leave me in the dust the first lap.

    My solution.......move the F up people,,,,,,,let the "novices" have the "C" race.
    Many of the 20 front racers are cat 1 mtn riders and cat5/4 road racers who claim to
    not have the skill set to move up.......BS

    I have raced CX in NJ for 5 years and every year it is the same.
    You people need to move up.

    If the "novices" did not get beat so bad they might stick around thru more of the wet season. Not worth it to ride cold nasty mud and get lapped.

    I am a good rider, but i dont train but enjoy a friendly race.

    If you are more of a serious racer then move up!

    I am sure there will be some strong replys to these words from the top 20.....
    to you I say......"Move UP"

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jsqueri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    203
    Intersting comments, Nick.

    I agree except that if there are only the serious riders racing this late in the season and they move up, who would be left to race the few novices willing to show up at 9am in 34 degree weather?

    It is interesting, though and brings up the question: When to move up?

  6. #6
    Getaway Cycle Center
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    180
    Quote Originally Posted by jsqueri View Post
    Intersting comments, Nick.

    I agree except that if there are only the serious riders racing this late in the season and they move up, who would be left to race the few novices willing to show up at 9am in 34 degree weather?

    It is interesting, though and brings up the question: When to move up?
    The answer is the Novices.
    They will show up if there A%$es wasnt handed to them.
    And i am very happy finishing mid field or even last as long as it is close.
    I actually moved up to cat 2 mtn racing when i hit top ten in the cat 3 races a few times in a row(15-25 field size).

    But losing miserably in the beginner race makes the honey-doo list look like more fun.....so why go play in cold mud.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JSumner13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,544
    Quote Originally Posted by jsqueri View Post
    Intersting comments, Nick.

    I agree except that if there are only the serious riders racing this late in the season and they move up, who would be left to race the few novices willing to show up at 9am in 34 degree weather?

    It is interesting, though and brings up the question: When to move up?
    10 races or 10 upgrade points earned for Cat4 to 3 upgrade.....Or hold a Cat1 mtb license.
    Last edited by JSumner13; 11-19-2012 at 01:17 PM.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jsqueri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    203
    10 races or 12 upgrade points
    10 races period? 10 races in one season? I'll have 10 in between the 2 I did last year and this year. That means I could move up next season? That's a crazy thought.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Poncharelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,196
    I guess I'm one of those whose doing the final 8 of a 14 race series, which ends in 3 weeks.

    Did my FIRST EVER cross race 4 weeks ago, and like NickT, I've noticed the speed of these lower classes.

    I'm a Cat 3 on the road and Cat 1 on the MTB, and I have yet to crack the top 3 in the 35+ Masters C group (1st race: 16th, then 8th, 4th, 4th, and 6th this past Sat).

    Isn't it A=Expert, B=Sport, and C=beginner? I know I can easily win an MTB beginner race.

    Upgrade refusal pretty hardcore in cross. We even have a couple of racers who've organized a heckling group during the top ten callup. It's hilarious!!
    Last edited by Poncharelli; 11-19-2012 at 01:19 PM.
    Head Coach, Ben Lomond HS MTB Team
    www.utahmtb.org
    Cycling Team and local Club:
    http://www.roostersbikersedge.com/

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JSumner13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,544
    Quote Originally Posted by jsqueri View Post
    10 races period? 10 races in one season? I'll have 10 in between the 2 I did last year and this year. That means I could move up next season? That's a crazy thought.
    In a 12 month period

    https://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=2627

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jsqueri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    203
    Thanks for the link.

    Yep, it'll never happen, but I'm cool with that. This year my goal was top half. Next year I'll train more and shoot for top quarter. Maybe if some follow Nickt's recommendation, I'll make it. If not, whatever. It's been fun as hell whatever place I come in.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JSumner13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,544
    Quote Originally Posted by jsqueri View Post
    Thanks for the link.

    Yep, it'll never happen, but I'm cool with that. This year my goal was top half. Next year I'll train more and shoot for top quarter. Maybe if some follow Nickt's recommendation, I'll make it. If not, whatever. It's been fun as hell whatever place I come in.
    It is fun! And great attitude. What many fail to understand about 'cross is while it's awesome to get on the podium, it's not all about that. Out of a field of 90 riders, there are 90 individual races going on. 1 racing 2, 10 racing 11 and 89 racing 90. Participation to some events does seem to die down as the season goes on mostly because it's cold, the holidays...that kind of stuff. MTB season is the same way once vacation season kicks in. I think it has zero to do with sandbagging and for folks all caught up with that topic and not finishing quite as well as they want, get over it....train harder and do something about it!

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Fakie1999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    898
    Quote Originally Posted by Poncharelli View Post
    I guess I'm one of those whose doing the final 8 of a 14 race series, which ends in 3 weeks.

    Did my FIRST EVER cross race 4 weeks ago, and like NickT, I've noticed the speed of these lower classes.

    I'm a Cat 3 on the road and Cat 1 on the MTB, and I have yet to crack the top 3 in the 35+ Masters C group (1st race: 16th, then 8th, 4th, 4th, and 6th this past Sat).

    Isn't it A=Expert, B=Sport, and C=beginner? I know I can easily win an MTB beginner race.

    Upgrade refusal pretty hardcore in cross. We even have a couple of racers who've organized a heckling group during the top ten callup. It's hilarious!!
    Thats crazy! I won C last year, moved up to B. I've got quite a bit more miles in my legs this year too. Now I'm mid pack B. I just might get on the podium for the series though. I'm not the fastest, but I do show up to every race.

    On a side note, the guy thats going to win B for the series raced A yesterday, and got lapped. Quite a big jump to the next group!

  14. #14
    Getaway Cycle Center
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    180

    For the Good of the Sport

    Quote Originally Posted by Fakie1999 View Post
    Thats crazy! I won C last year, moved up to B. I've got quite a bit more miles in my legs this year too. Now I'm mid pack B. I just might get on the podium for the series though. I'm not the fastest, but I do show up to every race.

    On a side note, the guy thats going to win B for the series raced A yesterday, and got lapped. Quite a big jump to the next group!
    To me its about getting more people into the sport.
    There should be a clear beginner group that the top 25% of the racers should be itching to get up to the B's as fast as possible.
    If you won top three and you were mid pack in the B's then that tells me that the 25 guys behind you should move up and be the back 1/2 of the field in the B's.
    This opens up 25 new spots for beginners to get in and help build the sport.
    If the novices are getting their A%$es handed to them then they will not be back, and the top 25% will feel no pressure to move up.
    This is exactly what is happening.
    On top of that if there is such a big gap between moving from the B's to the A's then this only strengthens the argument that the upgrade procedure is very inconsistent.
    Being top 3 in a mtn race of 10-20 riders is the same as being top 10-20 in a race of 100 riders. But top 3 out of 100...not the same.
    In road racing cat 5 racers cant wait to move up to cat 4.

    The sport is not growing as it should because we do not make room for novices.
    Forget about the podium in the beginner race.

    I do not train. I do not plan on training. I am a recreational rider/racer.
    I have no plans on becoming the best..
    Also at this point in my life i know that i will not be any where near the podium in the C's.
    If i make the top 20% I promise i will move up.....just as i did in the mtn scene. Actually i moved up to cat 2 when i hit the top 35% consistently.
    I stuck thru many full seasons of CX because it is fun.
    But it still sucks when you are racing all by yourself when the 20 out of the 21 racers leave you in the dust.

    I dont think its the weather because many riders i know ride thru the winter.

    I own a bike shop and i do not see the sport growing in NJ.
    I have spent a lot of time in Ma and the sport is popular and growing.
    You can walk into many shops and see 3-5 cx bike on display.
    In NJ your lucky to find one. (PS I always try to have at least one on the floor)

    I love cycling and want to see the sport grow both for my love of it and of course for my business.

    Another side note my buddy took top 3 in the C race last year,
    This year he took top 20 out of 50+ in the B race early in the season.
    Now mid season he is Racing in the A's (pushed there because of wanting to race with his teammates and is running in the back 1/3.
    He really could have moved to the B's the year prior to winning the C race.
    It is all relative.

    Again its about growing the sport.
    But the ones trying to get into the sport we want to keep them.....not scare away.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Fakie1999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    898
    I think the mens groups around here are set up pretty well. It is a pretty good jump from C to B, and a big jump from B to A. Just like on the mtb. Cat 3 to Cat 2 is a good jump, and Cat 2 to Cat 1 is a big jump.

    The womens groups in cross here are worse. My wife won B last year, and now she gets lapped in A every race. Just not enough women move up from B. They need more racers anyway. The mens groups are 2-3x bigger.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ds2199's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    682

    Moving up CX Categories (funny)

    This pretty much explains it - in a light hearted way...



  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Poncharelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,196
    [QUOTE=ds2199;9890052]This pretty much explains it - in a light hearted way...

    [QUOTE]

    LMFAO!!
    Head Coach, Ben Lomond HS MTB Team
    www.utahmtb.org
    Cycling Team and local Club:
    http://www.roostersbikersedge.com/

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jsqueri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    203
    That's hilarious and it actually explain it really well.

  19. #19
    Getaway Cycle Center
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    180

    Excellent!!!

    [QUOTE=ds2199;9890052]This pretty much explains it - in a light hearted way...


    Fantastic!!!

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    7
    been jetski racing for years, three podium finishes and your moving up like it or not...

  21. #21
    dcb
    dcb is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    265
    Quote Originally Posted by Poncharelli View Post
    Upgrade refusal pretty hardcore in cross. We even have a couple of racers who've organized a heckling group during the top ten callup. It's hilarious!!
    Yup! That was pretty funny on Saturday. I race in that class and actually belong in it as I can't seem to even crack the top half of the field. But if you're an expert mtb racer and CAT 3 roadie and can't get on a podium that means there's a bunch of sandbaggers out there. I liked that the guy doing the call-ups mentioned that the top 5 in points would be automatically moved up for next season. I think they should add to that anybody who's made a podium this year at all. It's not like that can happen on accident with a field of at least 25 people for every race.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Poncharelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,196
    Quote Originally Posted by dcb View Post
    Yup! That was pretty funny on Saturday. I race in that class and actually belong in it as I can't seem to even crack the top half of the field. But if you're an expert mtb racer and CAT 3 roadie and can't get on a podium that means there's a bunch of sandbaggers out there. I liked that the guy doing the call-ups mentioned that the top 5 in points would be automatically moved up for next season. I think they should add to that anybody who's made a podium this year at all. It's not like that can happen on accident with a field of at least 25 people for every race.
    Yes. I was planning on just going straight to the Bs, since a bunch of guys I usually race MTB and road with are there (the guys winning Bs are very strong Cat 3s and Expert racers; I'm a relatively weak Cat 3 and expert Mtber). But I wanted to win a race for once and then move up (I've only had one win ever, on the MTB). Well, it looks like it may not happen this season at all!!

    I noticed one guy moved from C to A group this weekend, and he didn't get last. There's definitely a lot of overlap in abilities. Winner of lower group could probably get midpack (or higher) in next higher group.
    Head Coach, Ben Lomond HS MTB Team
    www.utahmtb.org
    Cycling Team and local Club:
    http://www.roostersbikersedge.com/

  23. #23
    jct
    jct is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jct's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    639
    i kinda thought that the shrinking fields were attributed to some off-season roadies just effing around during the early season races when weather and fields were big and then not participating in races once it got cold/wet/muddy or if they just needed to hibernate for the winter.

    i'm racing Cs this year as it's my first season of CX and the only racing i've ever done. i've finished inside the top 10 in the 8 races so far and i plan on moving up to B or B+ next season. the fields in the 3 race series i'm in range from small (10ish), medium(30+) to huge(70+). i get beat by the same guys usually and we're all of the same concensus in that we're all moving up next year.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4
    Ponch- yes the heckling is pretty funny, even when you are one of the guys being heckled. I knew i should have never bought a skinsuit, i was just asking for it!

    My observation is this: I raced my first bike race ever cx, Mtn, or road last year mid-way through the cx season. I raced I think 7 total races and was generally around #10. The more you race, the more you think you can sniff the podium. I came back this year and it turns out there are a lot of super fast guys in the 35+ C group. Each race is a hard fast race. Part of the thing keeping fast C's or B's from upgrading is by the time you see that you are one of the faster guys in your group you have accumulated points that don't move with you. So guys, like me admittedly, stay to finish out the season and plan to upgrade next year.

    Middle of the pack guys will rise up and do the same thing next year. It's the circle of CX. I don't feel a bit bad about being in the top 5 or so each week. As long as guys don't stay in the same group and place top5ish year after year, I'm cool with it. I'll be happy to work hard over the next few seasons and hopefully work up the B ladder and maybe the A's someday as well.

    You are super fast and good for your first 5-6 races! It's been fun.



    Quote Originally Posted by Poncharelli View Post
    Yes. I was planning on just going straight to the Bs, since a bunch of guys I usually race MTB and road with are there (the guys winning Bs are very strong Cat 3s and Expert racers; I'm a relatively weak Cat 3 and expert Mtber). But I wanted to win a race for once and then move up (I've only had one win ever, on the MTB). Well, it looks like it may not happen this season at all!!

    I noticed one guy moved from C to A group this weekend, and he didn't get last. There's definitely a lot of overlap in abilities. Winner of lower group could probably get midpack (or higher) in next higher group.

  25. #25
    Ride da mOOn Moderator
    Reputation: NEPMTBA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    6,983
    I love it when I race mt bikes, and the novice winners lap time is just as fast if not faster than the experts provided they run the same course and time frame!

    In our vintage Moto series you start out as an intermediate, no questions asked. You race and are viewed by your peers and if you "really suck" you go to novice, but if you start to win novice back to inter you go on a vote from your peers, so sandbagging it will only get ya a race or two! Them moving to Expert is "your" decision you can race inter forever.

    Funny thing is lots of guys will run inter for a year or two and be glad to run expert even if they get smoked, because they like the idea of running with past and former champions. Just imagine how you would feel if you beat a former champion, it says something.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •