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  1. #51
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    I am finally retiring the pair I got after about 1400 miles. They probably still have at least a few hundred miles left in the tread but I've noticed them slipping more on roots as the center of the tread wears further. I have another pair waiting that I got in a trade, and also some soma cazaderos that I've been itching to try (ironically, got those from Bruce Gordon's site too ). I had three flats over the life of the tires, all caused by thorns. I think they get caught between the treads and with nowhere to go they eventually get driven into the tire. Still, only got 3 flats over the life of the tires so it wasn't exactly an epidemic. Oddly enough, I never got a flat the half dozen or so times that I rode through glass and felt certain I'd get one. I never tried setting them up tubeless - might the next time, though I also like to switch tires for certain rides so I might not bother.

    They wowed me several times over their life, mostly on rocky downhills that seemed too sketchy to tackle on a "road" bike. But the ride that sticks out the most was a 50 mile ride in February that was about 50% iced over dirt roads. Instead of plowing / salting, the maintenance for these roads is basically just dusting some gravel on the ice (or nothing at all for the sections that are too steep for a vehicle to get up to apply the gravel). I was stunned how secure the tires felt on this surface.

    1400 miles is much better life than I've gotten out of any other offroad capable tires that spend considerable time on pavement. We'll see how the cazaderos compare but I'm guessing I will be back on these in the fall, and certainly by the winter.
    Yeah I only carry cans cause I'm a weight weenie.

  2. #52
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    Interested in how the Caz' does compared to RnR. My RnR experience was excellent. Only wished for a less buzzy pavement ride (not bad at all, but still could hear that hum), which is why I have been interested in the Caz. Both come with tan sidewalls, which is a plus.

  3. #53
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    As they wore down, the buzz got considerably quieter. Shame that the grip on roots went with it They are still a very capable tire in their current state, rode almost 100 miles of road / gravel / singletrack on Sunday and they felt fine. If I didn't have a bunch of other tires in the garage already I wouldn't even consider switching right now.

    I rode the caz's around a bit in my neighborhood last night and they felt maybe a little faster and definitely didn't buzz, but they were also pumped to like 75-80 psi to get the bead seated. My initial impression is they'll roll a little faster and clear mud a lot better but not corner as predictably on pavement or hardpack (should still do better on those than the firecrosses I've used previously). My big question is how well they are going to do on thick, loose gravel like we see on freshly resurfaced roads. The rock n roads were impossibly good on that slop.

    I will report back once I've got some miles on them.

    I can confirm the tan sidewalls look good, though I don't think they are quite as pretty as the RnR's (I've gotten very attached to that simple red logo).

    Yeah I only carry cans cause I'm a weight weenie.

  4. #54
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    Rode a solid 30 mile loop with a bit of everything this morning. It was raining for the first hour so that colored my opinions a bit but I wanted to document my thoughts while both tires are fresh in my mind.

    The caz seems to have maybe a little more rolling resistance on pavement, but less air resistance because it doesn't have those unbroken ridges across the tire. Probably a wash overall, but at higher speeds I could see the caz having a slight advantage. There was a slight hum on pavement similar to other cross tires, but nothing like the rock n road, which my friend once described as sounding like a jeep was bearing down on him (this was when the tires were new).

    Grip on dirt and gravel is good, but different. The rock n roads kind of stay on top of stuff and stick to it, while the caz wants to bite into it. Time will tell which of these is better. In very loose gravel the rnr was a lot more confidence inspiring.

    Rode a couple miles of rocky / rooty (at least for that bike) singletrack and volume felt the same (pretty sure they use the same casing so this would make sense). Very comfy.

    I don't think the caz grips large roots as well as the rock n road, but I will have to go back when they aren't wet to make sure. This would seem to fit with my perception its trying to dig into things for grip instead of sticking to them. Grip on rocks was probably a bit better though, contrary to what I'd expect. I think this is because the row of knobs on either side of the centerline has a kind of crosshatch pattern cut into them, so I'd expect this effect to be short lived.

    Did not encounter much mud but what I did didn't gum up the treads at all so thats a good thing.

    I will roll with these until sometime in September, there is a long gravel ride then with a ton of climbing that I like to use the challenge gravel grinders for (mostly so I can still keep up with my friends after mile 80). My hunch is I'll be back to the rock n roads after that. I like the caz so far, but haven't seen anything suggesting they are worth paying a premium over the rock n road (I think I got the pair I have for $75 shipped or something when the Bruce Gordon site was blowing out a ton of tires). If you really hate the buzz, they would probably be a good option though.
    Yeah I only carry cans cause I'm a weight weenie.

  5. #55
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    i have Been riding the RnR on my gravel bike for two months and I love them.
    I also considered as the cazaderos as an option But I finally choose the ROck and road because they seemed to roll better on loose and sand. Also the buzz noise is a little uncomfortable for me But nothing dramatically.

    i need two recomendations about the tires:

    - I am running them offroad at 50 psi (the minimum that bruce gordon recommends) But My weight is only 70kg so maybe I can run them at lower psi without Risk of pinch flat?

    - Im running them with bontrager sealant tubes because I couldnt install them in a tubeless set up. My rims are the dt swiss xr331 tubeless compatible and When pump them the wheels loose all the air for through the beads. Any recommendation to get the tubeless set up?

    Thanks!

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by snchz View Post
    i have Been riding the RnR on my gravel bike for two months and I love them.
    I also considered as the cazaderos as an option But I finally choose the ROck and road because they seemed to roll better on loose and sand. Also the buzz noise is a little uncomfortable for me But nothing dramatically.

    i need two recomendations about the tires:

    - I am running them offroad at 50 psi (the minimum that bruce gordon recommends) But My weight is only 70kg so maybe I can run them at lower psi without Risk of pinch flat?

    - Im running them with bontrager sealant tubes because I couldnt install them in a tubeless set up. My rims are the dt swiss xr331 tubeless compatible and When pump them the wheels loose all the air for through the beads. Any recommendation to get the tubeless set up?

    Thanks!
    The tires are not tubeless compatible, so setting them up will be a bit of a gamble and an experiment.

    I would start with one layer of Stans/Velotape/Kapton (probably ~21mm), and follow it up with a layer of Gorilla tape. Install tire, add sealant, give it a try. Lube the bead with Windex or whatever. You'll probably need a compressor or C02 to seat them the first time. If they will not go, still, I would suggest adding Gorilla tape until they do. I wouldn't go any more than 2, maybe 3 layers of tape though, as you're essentially shortening the sidewall height of the rim as you build up the layers.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

  7. #57
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    For your other question, I usually keep the rear at at least 45 but have gone into the high 30's on the front when riding offroad (I weigh about 95 kg). I'm sure this increases the risk of a pinch flat but I have never gotten one - the thorns always get through the tire first The cazadero seems very susceptible to punctures as well, which I guess is to be expected (I think they use the same casing). I would love to see one of these offered with the puncture protection layer thats available in the paselas...

    You are right about the Rock n Roads riding better on loose / sand. Where the caz really shines is on the road.

    Thanks for the tips on tubeless seely, I think I've had enough of the small punctures that I'm finally gonna give it a try
    Yeah I only carry cans cause I'm a weight weenie.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexCuse View Post
    For your other question, I usually keep the rear at at least 45 but have gone into the high 30's on the front when riding offroad (I weigh about 95 kg). I'm sure this increases the risk of a pinch flat but I have never gotten one - the thorns always get through the tire first The cazadero seems very susceptible to punctures as well, which I guess is to be expected (I think they use the same casing). I would love to see one of these offered with the puncture protection layer thats available in the paselas...

    You are right about the Rock n Roads riding better on loose / sand. Where the caz really shines is on the road.

    Thanks for the tips on tubeless seely, I think I've had enough of the small punctures that I'm finally gonna give it a try
    I should add that on my Paselas on Ailerons, I set them up tubeless with the standard 2 layers of Stans/Velotape and a compressor. It took a couple of tries to get them to hold air, but doing the "stans dance" after popping the bead up eventually got them to seal, and they've held really well for about 2,500 miles now. I tend to be a little generous with the sealant since I'm commuting on them.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by seely View Post
    The tires are not tubeless compatible, so setting them up will be a bit of a gamble and an experiment.

    I would start with one layer of Stans/Velotape/Kapton (probably ~21mm), and follow it up with a layer of Gorilla tape. Install tire, add sealant, give it a try. Lube the bead with Windex or whatever. You'll probably need a compressor or C02 to seat them the first time. If they will not go, still, I would suggest adding Gorilla tape until they do. I wouldn't go any more than 2, maybe 3 layers of tape though, as you're essentially shortening the sidewall height of the rim as you build up the layers.
    Thanks a lot fro the tips! My rock n roads are mounted tubeless since yesterday.
    Now the problem is that they lost air. Is it normal?
    For example, from yesterday night to this morbing they have lost about 15 psi. And Today during 2 hour riding they have lost from 30 psi to 25 psi.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by snchz View Post
    Thanks a lot fro the tips! My rock n roads are mounted tubeless since yesterday.
    Now the problem is that they lost air. Is it normal?
    For example, from yesterday night to this morbing they have lost about 15 psi. And Today during 2 hour riding they have lost from 30 psi to 25 psi.
    It's fairly normal. I'm assuming you're running a sealant in the tire (I don't think they would be holding at all if you weren't!)?

    With my Pasela's I went a little generous on the sealant since I'm commuting everyday on them. I found they did leak a bit more at first but s eemed to settle in after leaving them at higher pressure (~60psi) for a night, and topping off the pressure frequently.

    I'm about 5 months into my setup and top them off every other day or every 2 days or so.

    Out of curiosity how are you measuring pressure before and after a ride? I've found that using a pump is inconsistent at best. If I inflate to ~42, pull of the pump, and put the pump back on the valve right away, I'll get two totally different readings. I prefer to rely on a digital gauge if I'm looking to really evaluate the setup.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

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