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  1. #1
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    Motobecane Phantom Cross Pro Ti Sizing

    Not being too familiar with the ins and outs of road bike sizing, I recently went into a local Performance to ride some cross bikes around the store to test the fit (and to see what this SRAM double tap stuff is all about, not too bad).

    I settled on the 56 Fuji Cross frame as being a fairly decent fit (I'm 5'11" with 32" inseam) even though the stand over still seemed a bit tall.

    Then I start comparing the size charts with the Motobecane that I would like to order, and I'm seeing some seemingly large differences between the two:
    <br>
    <img src="http://salimon.ddns.net/images/moto_fuji.png"></img>
    <br>
    Most noticeably the wheel base and stand over seem shortened a fair amount compared to the Fuji. I haven't looked around at other brands, but do the Motobecane Ti frames run on the small side, and do riders typically move to the next size up?

    It's just that ordering from BD you're basically ordering blind, and there are no shops that carry Motobecane frames anywhere near here. So I'm at a bit of a loss as to which direction I should go. Being right in the middle of sizes isn't helping much either. Any thoughts appreciated.
    Last edited by salimoneus; 01-20-2015 at 07:56 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Motobecane Phantom Cross Pro Ti Sizing

    Looks like you are same size as me. L on MTB and 58cm on road bike. Since cross bikes should be at least one size smaller than your road bike you should be good to go with a 56cm Moto

    Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk 2

  3. #3
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    I was leaning towards the 56 as well, since it has the same effective top tube as the Fuji I was on, and has a lower stand-over which seems like a plus. The wheelbase just seems a bit short at 38.7. I guess the wheelbase isn't as much of a big deal in comparison though.

  4. #4
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    This a hard to follow comparison.

    Firstly, on the 56cm frame, wheelbase variation of 41mm. The Chainstays are of equal length as is the EFF TT. Both forks have 45mm offset. Only the head tube angle is different by 1 degree. This does not equal a 41mm variance. You might like to obtain actual drawings of each to more accurately nail this issue down. Also, the Fuji has a common 72 degree head tube angle for a CX bike whereas the Motobecane is road bike steep. Beware and get some owner feedback if possible on the quick steering that this will give and also, check the toe overlap as a short wheel base - short front centre specifically - may also be a problem.

    I would recommend to you to look at Strawberry Cycles (Google it) and use the fitting chart to get a better look of yourself and your proportions to size correctly.

    Thirdly, do not worry about head tube length. The Motobecane will be shorter in the steerer stem which means you can position lower down to the h/bars, or fit a riser stem to sit more upright. You can play with your position on Strawberry's site.

    More study, details, mere details.....pun intended.

    Happy hunting.

    Eric
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  5. #5
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    I found some images of each that appear to be near the same scale (about the same wheel size and wheel base in pixels, not sure about frame sizes). I did a quick skeleton overlay of the Moto on top of the Fuji:
    <br>
    <img src="http://salimon.dnsd.info/images/compare.png"></img>
    <br>
    It looks as though the top tube angle and head tube seem to be the large contributing factors in the difference in wheel base and stand over. Good point about the head tube angle, I wasn't really considering that. I'll check out Strawberry as well, thanks.

  6. #6
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    Hmm, in that pic the Moto fork appears to have more of a bend in it, resulting in the fork angle being almost identical to that of the Fuji. Perhaps the difference in HTA isn't as bad as it seems.

  7. #7
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    Very well done. The overlay is revealing. It does appear that the Moto spec sheet is not as true to reality as the visual seems much more clear. The numbers do not match, so one is wrong. The picture tells a different story, so we will call it that they are essentially similar. My point about the head tube length is correct so up to you on which size you want to go for.

    Eric
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  8. #8
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    I am still concerned about the short head tube. Although the lower hand position appears to be about the same between the two due to the shorter drop of the MotoB bars, the upper hand position seems quite a bit lower on the MotoB. I'm sure a different or flipped stem and spacers could remedy that to a degree, but it still seems like an excessively short head tube.

    I'm also not crazy about the rear hub being 130mm, it seems like 135mm is pretty standard now, and I'm concerned about getting stuck with limited disc wheel options down the road.

    Still though, at under $2k it's pretty hard if not impossible to beat for a decently specced Ti cross bike.

  9. #9
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    In terms of head tube length in isolation, Mountain bikes are regularly this size and take more punishment, so don't beat yourself up on that one. Stems can be worked out for ride position, remember that Motobecane is an old European brand and they are still following traditional design themes. The argument is in favour of 135mm spacing for the rear wheel - mixes well with the MTB brethren. It is not too hard however to spread the rear end a little, but squaring up the brake adaptor could be a problem, remember, we are talking 5mm total, 2.5mm each side of centre. Or, 130mm will have some form of wheel support, as there are existing bikes out there in this configuration, and if road bikes come on stream with Disc's, we just have to wait and see which way they will go.

    Eric
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  10. #10
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    Good points, it does seem like any apparent shortcomings can be compensated for and aren't necessarily deal breakers. This bike is definitely worthy of consideration. Thanks for the input!

  11. #11
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    For those interested, BD has opened up pre-orders on 2015 models of both the Pro (Rival) and Team (Ultegra) versions of the Fantom Cross Ti, with a ship date around mid-August this year. If you're interested I would get in now, these don't seem to last very long.

  12. #12
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    These are shipping now, a whole month ahead of schedule, and it looks like there are still some available. I received mine today and can't wait to get it setup.

    Just a word of warning: the 2015 model comes with an 11 speed drive train, not a 10 speed as indicated on the website. I had already built up a wheel set for the road in advance with a 10 speed cassette, but that's going to have to change now. Not a huge deal but worth mentioning.

  13. #13
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    Have been riding this bike a bit, and overall it is extremely impressive, especially considering the new Rival 22 was thrown in essentially as a free upgrade. The front shifting with the new Rival components is cleaner than any other mid-level SRAM setup I've ever tried. I think they finally got it right with this 22 release.

    My only complaint thus far is the wheelset. The Vuelta XRP Pro wheels seem to be having some clearance issues. I tried a PG-1170 11-28T cassette and the rivets on the inside of the cassette made contact with the outer spokes. The bike comes with a PG-1130 11-32T, and it appears that the spider design on the 1130 series is a bit different and offers more spoke clearance. I am hoping the smaller sizes in that series will work as well. A bit disappointing but considering that this is a fairly low end wheelset to begin with, not a major ding.

  14. #14
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    Motobecane Ti Fantom

    Hi salimoneus, I too am looking at this bike and wondering how it has been going for you. I love everything I've seen about it so far, but am a little wary of the short head tube. I'm old and carrying some belly luggage, so I like to go with saddle and bars at pretty similar height. Were there spacers available? Is the head tube uncut, or is a riser stem the only answer? Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shawnriffhard View Post
    Hi salimoneus, I too am looking at this bike and wondering how it has been going for you. I love everything I've seen about it so far, but am a little wary of the short head tube. I'm old and carrying some belly luggage, so I like to go with saddle and bars at pretty similar height. Were there spacers available? Is the head tube uncut, or is a riser stem the only answer? Thanks.
    Bump.
    Any new reviews of your MB Ti?

  16. #16
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    Hi Shawn,

    Sorry did not see your previous post.

    The short head tube has not really been noticeable to me, and I did end up flipping the stem to give me a rise on the bars. The fork steer tube was already cut with star nut installed, but it was cut fairly long and came with 1.5" of spacers installed. I kept all the spacers under the stem and overall it fits great and I am really enjoying the bike.

    I noticed that they are now shipping the same model year bike with WTB wheels instead of the XRPs, so I would expect the cassette fitment issues I had to be non existent with the updated version. The updated version is also $100 cheaper than what I paid for mine so it's an even better buy at just $1599. At that price you really can't go wrong for a Ti frame with a lifetime warranty and Rival 22 setup.

    Hope this helps.

  17. #17
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    Is the ti fantom a decently built ti frame? Been thinking about one of these or the cheaper aluminum version.

  18. #18
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    There doesn't seem to be much information about these bikes around, so I'm going to add my mini-review here.

    Sizing-wise, I have the 61cm Fantom Cross Pro TI and myself am 6'3", 34" inseam. My other cross bike/commuter is a 58cm Masi CX. Most of the geometry lined up about the same as the Masi, except the top tube is 15mm longer. To counteract that I've put a 100mm stem in place of the stock 110 and flipped it. I'm kicking myself a little as I totally missed the standover height, It's not a dealbreaker but it is a very close fit, perhaps the 59cm would have been a better choice at the end of the day.

    The bike itself is excellent. The ride is feels fast and buttery smooth at 55 PSI. The BB7s with 160mm rotors have plenty of stopping power, and the shifting on the Rival 22 is excellent. A nice touch that they don't mention is that all of the cables are Jagwire. The double-tap rear shifter can downshift 2-3 gears at once.

    I'll add some pictures, but the frame quality seems to be top notch. The welds are all neatly finished, and there's a nicely integrated chainstay protector. All of the decals (except the ones on the fork) look like they will peel off nicely. Most of them are tasteful but the rim decals are definitely going.

    Assembly is straightforward. Attach the handlebars to the stem, install the front brake, front rotor, insert the seat, inflate the tires and setup the derailleurs. I used my A520 pedals and MTB shoes, but it does ship with SPD-SL pedals and cleats in the box.

    For my commute, I'm going to add some fenders and probably tubeless 28mm road tires.

    Overall I'm stoaked, this is a very nice bike, especially for the price. I can't fault anything about it, and I'm surprised there's not more chatter about them (at least that I can find).
    Aussie in Chicagoland (what's all this white stuff?)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by timsmcm View Post
    Is the ti fantom a decently built ti frame? Been thinking about one of these or the cheaper aluminum version.
    Yes I would absolutely say that the Ti frame on this bike is of very good quality. I recall reading that it is manufactured by the same factory who makes the Ritchey break-apart Ti frame and several other top of the line frames. As mojoB said the welds are very clean, and the ride quality is very good on even 23c road tires.

    I have not ridden the aluminum version but I'm personally not a big fan of using an aluminum frame on a fully rigid bike, be it a mountain or road bike. For a cross bike I would only consider steel or Ti due to the extra flex in those materials, as well as increased durability out on the trail.

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    Does anyone know how long it usually takes them to come back into stock? Been checking for a while, don't see any sizes to order.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by timsmcm View Post
    Does anyone know how long it usually takes them to come back into stock? Been checking for a while, don't see any sizes to order.
    It appears they have plenty of stock at this time, I would try the link that mojoB posted, or you can find them here Cyclocross bikes @ BikesDirect

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    Went to both those links. When I try to put a size in to order nothing comes up on any of the ti frames

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by timsmcm View Post
    Went to both those links. When I try to put a size in to order nothing comes up on any of the ti frames
    Seems ok to me, you put in your size and add to cart:

    Aussie in Chicagoland (what's all this white stuff?)

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    Thanks much. The computer I was on would not work with that site. Tried another, golden.

  25. #25
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    Here's my pictures, click through for more. Sorry for the quality, not much room to work in. I'm happy to answer any questions.

    Aussie in Chicagoland (what's all this white stuff?)

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    Man that looks like a merlin build quality back in the day. I know picts are not the same as in person but that bike looks the business. How do you like the build parts? Trying to decide between that kit and the ultrega kit.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by timsmcm View Post
    How do you like the build parts? Trying to decide between that kit and the ultrega kit.
    No complaints at all on the Rival, though full Ultegra was a bit tempting. In the end I decided to keep the extra $200 in the kitty, and so far no regrets.
    Aussie in Chicagoland (what's all this white stuff?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mojoB View Post
    There doesn't seem to be much information about these bikes around, so I'm going to add my mini-review here.

    Sizing-wise, I have the 61cm Fantom Cross Pro TI and myself am 6'3", 34" inseam. My other cross bike/commuter is a 58cm Masi CX. Most of the geometry lined up about the same as the Masi, except the top tube is 15mm longer. To counteract that I've put a 100mm stem in place of the stock 110 and flipped it. I'm kicking myself a little as I totally missed the standover height, It's not a dealbreaker but it is a very close fit, perhaps the 59cm would have been a better choice at the end of the day.

    The bike itself is excellent. The ride is feels fast and buttery smooth at 55 PSI. The BB7s with 160mm rotors have plenty of stopping power, and the shifting on the Rival 22 is excellent. A nice touch that they don't mention is that all of the cables are Jagwire. The double-tap rear shifter can downshift 2-3 gears at once.

    I'll add some pictures, but the frame quality seems to be top notch. The welds are all neatly finished, and there's a nicely integrated chainstay protector. All of the decals (except the ones on the fork) look like they will peel off nicely. Most of them are tasteful but the rim decals are definitely going.

    Assembly is straightforward. Attach the handlebars to the stem, install the front brake, front rotor, insert the seat, inflate the tires and setup the derailleurs. I used my A520 pedals and MTB shoes, but it does ship with SPD-SL pedals and cleats in the box.

    For my commute, I'm going to add some fenders and probably tubeless 28mm road tires.

    Overall I'm stoaked, this is a very nice bike, especially for the price. I can't fault anything about it, and I'm surprised there's not more chatter about them (at least that I can find).
    I have the Ti in 61cm as well. I like the build, looks nice with the logos removed (though it apparently voids the warranty).
    The only thing I don't like about it is the weight, Mine is roughly 29 pounds (including bottle cages, etc). I don't plan on racing it but it is something to consider if others are concerned about the weight.
    I understand it is a TI frame and not aluminum but it just seems quite heavy. I even have some lighter carbon fiber wheels on it and the weight is 29lbs.

    I would definitely consider going with an aluminum version for racing if it would lower the weight substantially since I am very pleased with the build of the TI version.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by AristoNYC View Post
    The only thing I don't like about it is the weight, Mine is roughly 29 pounds (including bottle cages, etc). I don't plan on racing it but it is something to consider if others are concerned about the weight.
    I understand it is a TI frame and not aluminum but it just seems quite heavy. I even have some lighter carbon fiber wheels on it and the weight is 29lbs.
    Wow, that seems really heavy for that bike, on the Motobecane website they list the weight of the Ultegra version as 19.5 lbs, approx. for the 49cm (no pedals/reflectors).

    I have this bike on my short list, but that weight is disappointing.

  30. #30
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    Not sure where anyone came up with 29lbs (I have a feeling it was a typo) but my 2015 56cm with Rival is 20.8lbs with the heavy Vuelta wheels and large 28mm road tires.

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    It's quite possible that in the 61 (size quoted at 29lbs) they went with much thicker titanium tubing to handle the increased required load capacity, which would increase overall weight significantly more than if the tubing was the same thickness between the sizes. Even with thicker tubing that just seems like too big a difference to me though, but I'm not a bicycle frame engineer so it's really hard to say for sure.

    All I know is I triple checked my 56, and with just my fat ass on the digital scale I weigh ~199, holding the bike ~220 including pedals.

  32. #32
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    Heavier walled tube would add less than a lb. This is a typo error.

    Eric
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Malcolm View Post
    Heavier walled tube would add less than a lb. This is a typo error.
    This was bugging me too. My 61cm SRAM Rival with fenders and heavy tires (830grams each) is 11.4kg. With normal tires it would be closer to 10.4kg, or 23lbs.
    Aussie in Chicagoland (what's all this white stuff?)

  34. #34
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    Thanks for all who responded.

    The weight isn't really that important to me, and the idea of heavier walled tubes for the larger frame is actually appealing to me. I am just hoping it is going to be lighter than my fatbike

  35. #35
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    I got one of the Motobecane Fantom Ti - Shimano 105, 11 spd versions. 53cm, maybe a hair on the large side. I swapped the 100mm stem to a 90mm and it helped a bit. I am 5'7ish.

    Weighs 22ish lbs. The wheels are anchors 2000+ grams by my calculation and estimates. I think mostly in hubs and spokes, the rims are the cheaper i19 chriscross with brake tracks, even though it's disc equipped.

    Prior to me swapping out some of the stock parts with items from my parts bin I think this bike would have been in the low 23 lb range.

    Really solid build quality on the frame, looks high end, excellent price, but......I wish it didn't come with 11 speed and I wish I did a bit more homework before buying. None of my mtb wheel hubs will fit the 11 spd road stuff, sigh. I have mtb wheels with 1000's of miles on them that are in the 1600 gram range that I would have loved to use on this bike.

    I'd still do it all over again, but would probably consider maybe the next step up, to get nicer or lighter wheels (that are 11 spd compatiable) or I would have saved the cash and gotten a 10 spd Rival equipped bike and bought a nice set of "slippers."
    Don't hate on the minivan!!!!!!!

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    Can anyone with one of these bikes please give me an idea of how much clearance for a larger tire or a guess at how large a tire could fit on it. The rear triangle is usually the limiting factor.

    I am also curious how wide the stock tire is on the stock rims (or any rim really).

    I would love to fit a 40 or a 42mm tire and am wondering if that is possible.

    Thanks in advance for your help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rex615 View Post
    Can anyone with one of these bikes please give me an idea of how much clearance for a larger tire or a guess at how large a tire could fit on it. The rear triangle is usually the limiting factor.

    I am also curious how wide the stock tire is on the stock rims (or any rim really).

    I would love to fit a 40 or a 42mm tire and am wondering if that is possible.

    Thanks in advance for your help.
    I've run 40c Happy Mediums with the stock wheels. Slight fork rub. Carbon hoops would help for sure, but it can be done either way.

  38. #38
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    Tried my best to get frame clearance info.

    Motobecane Phantom Cross Pro Ti Sizing-img_20150213_122110670.jpgMotobecane Phantom Cross Pro Ti Sizing-img_20150213_122058917.jpgMotobecane Phantom Cross Pro Ti Sizing-img_20150213_121916962.jpgMotobecane Phantom Cross Pro Ti Sizing-img_20150213_121807370.jpg

    For reference, rims are ChrisCross i19s with 35c Continental Race tires. Tire pressure about about 45ish.

    FYI the stock combo on the bike has had a difficult time of sealing up tubeless.

    Frame is dirty, don't hold it against me.

    Edit: Frame size is a 53. Stock fork.
    Don't hate on the minivan!!!!!!!

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    Thanks Sleeveless, very useful information.

    Thanks GFisher for taking the time to shoot those pics. Great documentation. Also want to mention that the fact that your bike is dirty, just adds to your credibility.

    I want to be able to run Schwalbe Little Big Bens (40mm) for day tours on tarmac and it looks like they should fit since they mike out close to 40mm.

  40. #40
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    Motobecane Phantom Cross Pro Ti Sizing

    Anyone have a weight on the TI?

    EDIT: never mind. Found it


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    Thanks for the pics. I tried to upload some, but the MTBR "pic uploader" doesn't work in Firefox apparently and I refuse to use IE.

  42. #42
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    Motobecane Phantom Cross Pro Ti Sizing

    Is the titanium worth the extra $ or should I just go for the cross team aluminum (ultegra). I already placed my order but am wondering how much better the Ti version is? My understanding is that titanium is heavier but stronger and has some more shock absorption.


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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugout Bikes View Post
    Is the titanium worth the extra $ or should I just go for the cross team aluminum (ultegra). I already placed my order but am wondering how much better the Ti version is? My understanding is that titanium is heavier but stronger and has some more shock absorption.

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    I think you have answered your own question in the technical sense. But I guess there is also the philosophical sense. You can't go wrong with either material, both will be great bikes with only subtle differences, however there is a certain appeal that one material has over an other.

    I want a Ti bike, because it is made of titanium, not really because it will perform any better, I am just not that aggressive a rider.

    I like steel frames and Ti frames. I prefer them over aluminium and carbon.

    What size are you getting?

  44. #44
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    I don't think there is a significant difference between Ti and aluminum as far as weight is concerned, typically aluminum is thicker to achieve the same "strength" as Ti or steel, so in the end they are usually fairly close in weight. The main differences in my opinion aside from cost are shelf life, frame flex, and their ability to take stress.

    Anything you want to last for a long time, you would prefer Ti or steel over aluminum, as aluminum breaks down faster, is less flexible, and is more prone to failure after constant prolonged use. I would not trust a 20 year old aluminum frame, but Ti or steel can easily achieve those ages and then some and still perform at a high level.

    There is also the fact that aluminum is quite stiff compared to Ti or steel, and on a fully rigid bike like a cross or road bike, you would prefer more "flex" to make the ride more comfortable and easier on your joints.

    On say a full suspension mountain bike, you want the suspension doing all the work, so a more rigid aluminum frame is usually preferred. Also due to how quickly the full suspension designs evolve, and damage due to crashes, most people aren't going to keep a frame long enough for fatigue to be a factor with aluminum.

    Just my $.02.

  45. #45
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    Motobecane Phantom Cross Pro Ti Sizing

    Thanks for your input! So, here's the question.

    I ordered the aluminum ultegra bike (with intent to possibly upgrade the frame and wheels). The groupset is awesome for the price. ($1699)

    But, I can get the TI bike (with rival components for $100 less). I'm torn because I wanted the ultegra Titanium but, they dont have my size (56 - I'm 5.11 and 32" inseam).

    So, If you had to chose between ultegra aluminum or rival with titanium, which would you choose and why?


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  46. #46
    z1r
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    I have the AL with Apex and love it. Only upgrade in the works is BB7&'s to replace the BB5's.

    Me, I think I'd get the Ti Rival if it was my size. I like the way the SRAM shifters work a little better than the Shimano. Both work great.

    But my AL is stiff and over washboard you feel it, otherwise, the ride is super. I think the Ti bike would be a little nicer.
    Last edited by z1r; 02-16-2015 at 09:53 AM.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugout Bikes View Post
    Thanks for your input! So, here's the question.

    I ordered the aluminum ultegra bike (with intent to possibly upgrade the frame and wheels). The groupset is awesome for the price. ($1699)

    But, I can get the TI bike (with rival components for $100 less). I'm torn because I wanted the ultegra Titanium but, they dont have my size (56 - I'm 5.11 and 32" inseam).

    So, If you had to chose between ultegra aluminum or rival with titanium, which would you choose and why?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I would choose and did choose the Ti Rival bike. I think the frame makes more of a difference, and you would be saving money on top of it.

  48. #48
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    Motobecane Phantom Cross Pro Ti Sizing

    Thanks for the help everyone! I emailed BD to change my order to the Pro (rival) TI version! Anyone have an out of the box weight on this bike?


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  49. #49
    z1r
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    I'd like to know the weight too. My 56cm Apex/Disc version weighs 22 lbs with Shimano 520 SPD pedals. It was a hair over 21 lbs sans pedals out of the box. If I set it up tubeless I can drop another 1/2 lb.

    I'd like a Ti version for commuting and gravel rides.

  50. #50
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    Motobecane Phantom Cross Pro Ti Sizing

    Z1r, how tall are you and what's your inseam?

    I'm 5.11 / 32" inseam and in thinking 56 will be the right size. Is that about your size as well?

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