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  1. #1
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    Motobecane Phantom Cross Pro Ti Sizing

    Not being too familiar with the ins and outs of road bike sizing, I recently went into a local Performance to ride some cross bikes around the store to test the fit (and to see what this SRAM double tap stuff is all about, not too bad).

    I settled on the 56 Fuji Cross frame as being a fairly decent fit (I'm 5'11" with 32" inseam) even though the stand over still seemed a bit tall.

    Then I start comparing the size charts with the Motobecane that I would like to order, and I'm seeing some seemingly large differences between the two:
    <br>
    <img src="http://salimon.ddns.net/images/moto_fuji.png"></img>
    <br>
    Most noticeably the wheel base and stand over seem shortened a fair amount compared to the Fuji. I haven't looked around at other brands, but do the Motobecane Ti frames run on the small side, and do riders typically move to the next size up?

    It's just that ordering from BD you're basically ordering blind, and there are no shops that carry Motobecane frames anywhere near here. So I'm at a bit of a loss as to which direction I should go. Being right in the middle of sizes isn't helping much either. Any thoughts appreciated.
    Last edited by salimoneus; 01-20-2015 at 07:56 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Motobecane Phantom Cross Pro Ti Sizing

    Looks like you are same size as me. L on MTB and 58cm on road bike. Since cross bikes should be at least one size smaller than your road bike you should be good to go with a 56cm Moto

    Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk 2

  3. #3
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    I was leaning towards the 56 as well, since it has the same effective top tube as the Fuji I was on, and has a lower stand-over which seems like a plus. The wheelbase just seems a bit short at 38.7. I guess the wheelbase isn't as much of a big deal in comparison though.

  4. #4
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    This a hard to follow comparison.

    Firstly, on the 56cm frame, wheelbase variation of 41mm. The Chainstays are of equal length as is the EFF TT. Both forks have 45mm offset. Only the head tube angle is different by 1 degree. This does not equal a 41mm variance. You might like to obtain actual drawings of each to more accurately nail this issue down. Also, the Fuji has a common 72 degree head tube angle for a CX bike whereas the Motobecane is road bike steep. Beware and get some owner feedback if possible on the quick steering that this will give and also, check the toe overlap as a short wheel base - short front centre specifically - may also be a problem.

    I would recommend to you to look at Strawberry Cycles (Google it) and use the fitting chart to get a better look of yourself and your proportions to size correctly.

    Thirdly, do not worry about head tube length. The Motobecane will be shorter in the steerer stem which means you can position lower down to the h/bars, or fit a riser stem to sit more upright. You can play with your position on Strawberry's site.

    More study, details, mere details.....pun intended.

    Happy hunting.

    Eric
    If I don't make an attempt, how will I know if it will work?

  5. #5
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    I found some images of each that appear to be near the same scale (about the same wheel size and wheel base in pixels, not sure about frame sizes). I did a quick skeleton overlay of the Moto on top of the Fuji:
    <br>
    <img src="http://salimon.dnsd.info/images/compare.png"></img>
    <br>
    It looks as though the top tube angle and head tube seem to be the large contributing factors in the difference in wheel base and stand over. Good point about the head tube angle, I wasn't really considering that. I'll check out Strawberry as well, thanks.

  6. #6
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    Hmm, in that pic the Moto fork appears to have more of a bend in it, resulting in the fork angle being almost identical to that of the Fuji. Perhaps the difference in HTA isn't as bad as it seems.

  7. #7
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    Very well done. The overlay is revealing. It does appear that the Moto spec sheet is not as true to reality as the visual seems much more clear. The numbers do not match, so one is wrong. The picture tells a different story, so we will call it that they are essentially similar. My point about the head tube length is correct so up to you on which size you want to go for.

    Eric
    If I don't make an attempt, how will I know if it will work?

  8. #8
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    I am still concerned about the short head tube. Although the lower hand position appears to be about the same between the two due to the shorter drop of the MotoB bars, the upper hand position seems quite a bit lower on the MotoB. I'm sure a different or flipped stem and spacers could remedy that to a degree, but it still seems like an excessively short head tube.

    I'm also not crazy about the rear hub being 130mm, it seems like 135mm is pretty standard now, and I'm concerned about getting stuck with limited disc wheel options down the road.

    Still though, at under $2k it's pretty hard if not impossible to beat for a decently specced Ti cross bike.

  9. #9
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    In terms of head tube length in isolation, Mountain bikes are regularly this size and take more punishment, so don't beat yourself up on that one. Stems can be worked out for ride position, remember that Motobecane is an old European brand and they are still following traditional design themes. The argument is in favour of 135mm spacing for the rear wheel - mixes well with the MTB brethren. It is not too hard however to spread the rear end a little, but squaring up the brake adaptor could be a problem, remember, we are talking 5mm total, 2.5mm each side of centre. Or, 130mm will have some form of wheel support, as there are existing bikes out there in this configuration, and if road bikes come on stream with Disc's, we just have to wait and see which way they will go.

    Eric
    If I don't make an attempt, how will I know if it will work?

  10. #10
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    Good points, it does seem like any apparent shortcomings can be compensated for and aren't necessarily deal breakers. This bike is definitely worthy of consideration. Thanks for the input!

  11. #11
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    For those interested, BD has opened up pre-orders on 2015 models of both the Pro (Rival) and Team (Ultegra) versions of the Fantom Cross Ti, with a ship date around mid-August this year. If you're interested I would get in now, these don't seem to last very long.

  12. #12
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    These are shipping now, a whole month ahead of schedule, and it looks like there are still some available. I received mine today and can't wait to get it setup.

    Just a word of warning: the 2015 model comes with an 11 speed drive train, not a 10 speed as indicated on the website. I had already built up a wheel set for the road in advance with a 10 speed cassette, but that's going to have to change now. Not a huge deal but worth mentioning.

  13. #13
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    Have been riding this bike a bit, and overall it is extremely impressive, especially considering the new Rival 22 was thrown in essentially as a free upgrade. The front shifting with the new Rival components is cleaner than any other mid-level SRAM setup I've ever tried. I think they finally got it right with this 22 release.

    My only complaint thus far is the wheelset. The Vuelta XRP Pro wheels seem to be having some clearance issues. I tried a PG-1170 11-28T cassette and the rivets on the inside of the cassette made contact with the outer spokes. The bike comes with a PG-1130 11-32T, and it appears that the spider design on the 1130 series is a bit different and offers more spoke clearance. I am hoping the smaller sizes in that series will work as well. A bit disappointing but considering that this is a fairly low end wheelset to begin with, not a major ding.

  14. #14
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    Motobecane Ti Fantom

    Hi salimoneus, I too am looking at this bike and wondering how it has been going for you. I love everything I've seen about it so far, but am a little wary of the short head tube. I'm old and carrying some belly luggage, so I like to go with saddle and bars at pretty similar height. Were there spacers available? Is the head tube uncut, or is a riser stem the only answer? Thanks.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by shawnriffhard View Post
    Hi salimoneus, I too am looking at this bike and wondering how it has been going for you. I love everything I've seen about it so far, but am a little wary of the short head tube. I'm old and carrying some belly luggage, so I like to go with saddle and bars at pretty similar height. Were there spacers available? Is the head tube uncut, or is a riser stem the only answer? Thanks.
    Bump.
    Any new reviews of your MB Ti?

  16. #16
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    Hi Shawn,

    Sorry did not see your previous post.

    The short head tube has not really been noticeable to me, and I did end up flipping the stem to give me a rise on the bars. The fork steer tube was already cut with star nut installed, but it was cut fairly long and came with 1.5" of spacers installed. I kept all the spacers under the stem and overall it fits great and I am really enjoying the bike.

    I noticed that they are now shipping the same model year bike with WTB wheels instead of the XRPs, so I would expect the cassette fitment issues I had to be non existent with the updated version. The updated version is also $100 cheaper than what I paid for mine so it's an even better buy at just $1599. At that price you really can't go wrong for a Ti frame with a lifetime warranty and Rival 22 setup.

    Hope this helps.

  17. #17
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    Is the ti fantom a decently built ti frame? Been thinking about one of these or the cheaper aluminum version.

  18. #18
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    There doesn't seem to be much information about these bikes around, so I'm going to add my mini-review here.

    Sizing-wise, I have the 61cm Fantom Cross Pro TI and myself am 6'3", 34" inseam. My other cross bike/commuter is a 58cm Masi CX. Most of the geometry lined up about the same as the Masi, except the top tube is 15mm longer. To counteract that I've put a 100mm stem in place of the stock 110 and flipped it. I'm kicking myself a little as I totally missed the standover height, It's not a dealbreaker but it is a very close fit, perhaps the 59cm would have been a better choice at the end of the day.

    The bike itself is excellent. The ride is feels fast and buttery smooth at 55 PSI. The BB7s with 160mm rotors have plenty of stopping power, and the shifting on the Rival 22 is excellent. A nice touch that they don't mention is that all of the cables are Jagwire. The double-tap rear shifter can downshift 2-3 gears at once.

    I'll add some pictures, but the frame quality seems to be top notch. The welds are all neatly finished, and there's a nicely integrated chainstay protector. All of the decals (except the ones on the fork) look like they will peel off nicely. Most of them are tasteful but the rim decals are definitely going.

    Assembly is straightforward. Attach the handlebars to the stem, install the front brake, front rotor, insert the seat, inflate the tires and setup the derailleurs. I used my A520 pedals and MTB shoes, but it does ship with SPD-SL pedals and cleats in the box.

    For my commute, I'm going to add some fenders and probably tubeless 28mm road tires.

    Overall I'm stoaked, this is a very nice bike, especially for the price. I can't fault anything about it, and I'm surprised there's not more chatter about them (at least that I can find).
    Aussie in Chicagoland (what's all this white stuff?)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by timsmcm View Post
    Is the ti fantom a decently built ti frame? Been thinking about one of these or the cheaper aluminum version.
    Yes I would absolutely say that the Ti frame on this bike is of very good quality. I recall reading that it is manufactured by the same factory who makes the Ritchey break-apart Ti frame and several other top of the line frames. As mojoB said the welds are very clean, and the ride quality is very good on even 23c road tires.

    I have not ridden the aluminum version but I'm personally not a big fan of using an aluminum frame on a fully rigid bike, be it a mountain or road bike. For a cross bike I would only consider steel or Ti due to the extra flex in those materials, as well as increased durability out on the trail.

  20. #20
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    Does anyone know how long it usually takes them to come back into stock? Been checking for a while, don't see any sizes to order.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by timsmcm View Post
    Does anyone know how long it usually takes them to come back into stock? Been checking for a while, don't see any sizes to order.
    It appears they have plenty of stock at this time, I would try the link that mojoB posted, or you can find them here Cyclocross bikes @ BikesDirect

  22. #22
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    Went to both those links. When I try to put a size in to order nothing comes up on any of the ti frames

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by timsmcm View Post
    Went to both those links. When I try to put a size in to order nothing comes up on any of the ti frames
    Seems ok to me, you put in your size and add to cart:

    Aussie in Chicagoland (what's all this white stuff?)

  24. #24
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    Thanks much. The computer I was on would not work with that site. Tried another, golden.

  25. #25
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    Here's my pictures, click through for more. Sorry for the quality, not much room to work in. I'm happy to answer any questions.

    Aussie in Chicagoland (what's all this white stuff?)

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