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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAVELBIKE View Post
    Personally, I'd just get some nice, light wheels for the Vaya.
    Light wheels with UST tires (e.g. Stan's Iron Cross rims and Stan's Crows 700c x 35mm) are going to be part of my build. One issue with the Vaya is that it is spec'd with a steel fork with a 50mm rake. This would be inconsistent with the ENVE or Whistkey Creek tapered forks that I am considering using on my build. I like the feel of a carbon fork on gravel.

    I could get a custom Vaya frame from the same builder for the above mentioned price. They could also do a Ti fork with the appropriate rake. But I really want a bike tuned for fast gravel riding rather than touring. I could also buy a stock Vaya frame from Salsa for $750, but I would rather spend a few dollars more to get a custom Ti frame. Then I set it up exactly the way I want it.
    "I'm going to work so that it's a pure guts race at the end, and if it is, I am the only one who can win it." - Prefontaine

  2. #52
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    A 35mm tire and carbon fork will ride harsher than a wider/bigger tire with a steel fork. The stock Vaya fork is nothing to sneeze at, comfort/control wise.

    Also, a wider rim than the Iron Cross will give you more tire options if you want more flotation/traction.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAVELBIKE View Post
    Also, a wider rim than the Iron Cross will give you more tire options if you want more flotation/traction.
    Most of my riding is on pea-sized gravel and small-gravel bike trails. For these conditions a carbon fork and the Iron Cross rims/Stan's tires with 20-25 PSI pressure (or higher) will work very well.

    With my custom build, we will see what the maximize diameter tire will be with my frame. If I can actually run a much wider tire, then I can have a second set of wheels for rougher gravel. But I really want a 700c x 35mm setup for my typical rides and hopefully the option of running wider tires when required.
    "I'm going to work so that it's a pure guts race at the end, and if it is, I am the only one who can win it." - Prefontaine

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Rain View Post
    With my custom build, we will see what the maximize diameter tire will be with my frame. If I can actually run a much wider tire, then I can have a second set of wheels for rougher gravel. But I really want a 700c x 35mm setup for my typical rides and hopefully the option of running wider tires when required.
    Since this a custom build, shouldn't tire width capability be whatever you want it to be?
    There's only two things in life (but I forget what they are). - John Hiatt

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
    Since this a custom build, shouldn't tire width capability be whatever you want it to be?
    Yes but constrained by the theoretical limits of frame construction. My builders can increase tubing thickness and curve the stays to accommodate wider tires, but I am constraining the build by (1) requesting a geometry similar to the Salsa Warbird (as opposed to a true monstercross or mountain bike geometry for intance), (2) by requesting clearance for road cranks, and (3) by requesting clearance for mountain hubs (135 mm).

    The On-One Pickenflick is an example of what happens when tire width controls the frame:

    Found: On-One Limited Edition Ti ?Cross Rig ? The Pickenflick

    FYI, I don't want to use mountain bike gearing.

    I will update this thread when I find out what my builder can do with my frame.
    "I'm going to work so that it's a pure guts race at the end, and if it is, I am the only one who can win it." - Prefontaine

  6. #56
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    Suggest Carver is a lot lower risk than ordering direct from Triton or similar: Custom Ti

  7. #57
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    Update from Frame Builder

    I just got an update from my Ti frame builder. He suggests welding a plate into chainstays to create more room for wider tires. See the end result here

    He also thinks we may need to design a custom monster cross frame. Below is a first cut.

    Any thoughts on the longer-than-normal effective top tube length? Would that cause any issues?
    Attached Files Attached Files
    "I'm going to work so that it's a pure guts race at the end, and if it is, I am the only one who can win it." - Prefontaine

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Rain View Post
    I just got an update from my Ti frame builder. He suggests welding a plate into chainstays to create more room for wider tires. See the end result here

    He also thinks we may need to design a custom monster cross frame. Below is a first cut.

    Any thoughts on the longer-than-normal effective top tube length? Would that cause any issues?
    Plates can work fine. I know there it a stock Ti gravel frame with such, just can't recall. The geometry looks great, but this is a 56cm frame, simply not your size. Now it would fit me PERFECTLY

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by SVO View Post
    Plates can work fine. I know there it a stock Ti gravel frame with such, just can't recall. The geometry looks great, but this is a 56cm frame, simply not your size. Now it would fit me PERFECTLY
    Thanks, I'll have him downsize it a bit. I need like a 54.5cm frame. BTW, his design allows for 700c x 45mm tires!
    "I'm going to work so that it's a pure guts race at the end, and if it is, I am the only one who can win it." - Prefontaine

  10. #60
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    Lynskey Procross and Kona Rove Ti(made by Lynskey) have chainstay plate on the driveside.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    have you checked out the foundry harrow? 135 rear. through axle fork. disc. lots of room for big tyres. nicely spec'ed. reasonably priced. no hassle TEN YEAR warranty.

    Attachment 869098
    I had a Foundry Auger Disc. I hope the QC and carbon layup is better on the Harrow. My frame was so out of spec that the bike couldn't be built. Then I snapped the seat stays in half on my second ride on the replacement frame while remounting after clearing a barrier. Customer service was CRAP. They lost a customer for life because of that. Hope things are better with the Harrow and that they've revamped their CS.

    Very happy with my Hakaluggi disc!

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by foothillsbass View Post
    This new brand in our neck of the woods is getting a lot of buzz around here:

    Gravel Bikes - gravabike
    $1750 for a Chinese frame and fork, and a seat collar.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevermiss View Post
    Very happy with my Hakaluggi disc!
    Likewise! I used my Hakkalugi for a 1,100 km self supported gravel ride about a month ago, and it was fantastic. I couldn't think of a better bike for gravel grinding.

    Looking for a carbon gravel grinder!-2014-02-05-17.13.22.jpg

  14. #64
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    Sweet! What tires are running? I have Kenda Happy Mediums on 23mm rims right now. I haven't tried to put my revelate tangle bag on mine yet--glad to see its a good fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by monolith View Post
    Likewise! I used my Hakkalugi for a 1,100 km self supported gravel ride about a month ago, and it was fantastic. I couldn't think of a better bike for gravel grinding.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  15. #65
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    Frame Design is Complete

    Attached is the final BikeCad drawing of my build. Note that the build will have (1) clearance for 700c x 45mm tires, (2) rack and disc brake mounts, (3) 2 water-bottle mounts, and (4) cable routing on the down tube. The build will also include a Ti rack and fender mounts for touring.

    Note the down tube is designed to add stiffness to the frame and the ETT length is necessary to avoid toe overlap. The design includes use of the ENVE cross disc fork.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Hard Rain; 04-05-2014 at 09:44 AM.
    "I'm going to work so that it's a pure guts race at the end, and if it is, I am the only one who can win it." - Prefontaine

  16. #66
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    Looks pretty sweet.

    Toe overlap is a very tough thing to calculate in advance and dependent on many things: Geometry, tire size, shoe size, cleat positioning, model shoe, model pedal, etc. I think people worry too much about it. Personally, in your place, I'd get the geometry right for my torso and forget about toe overlap. Especially for the kind of riding this type of frame is meant for, i.e. not super technical moves climbing.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SVO View Post
    Looks pretty sweet.

    Toe overlap is a very tough thing to calculate in advance and dependent on many things: Geometry, tire size, shoe size, cleat positioning, model shoe, model pedal, etc. I think people worry too much about it. Personally, in your place, I'd get the geometry right for my torso and forget about toe overlap. Especially for the kind of riding this type of frame is meant for, i.e. not super technical moves climbing.
    The final frame is quite similar to the Salsa Vaya, which has know toe overlap issues (in my size of ~55cm) with larger tires. My builder increased the ETT by 25 mm to account for my foot size, crank arm length, the diameter of 700 x 45 tires, and the frame (with fork) geometry. While this may not perfectly eliminate toe overlap, it will certainly help and the adjustment is small enough so fit will be fine with a slightly shorter stem.
    "I'm going to work so that it's a pure guts race at the end, and if it is, I am the only one who can win it." - Prefontaine

  18. #68
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    Sorry, just don't agree with the approach. An inch is a big difference in ETT, especially for a bike intended for long hours in the saddle but little to no quick handling moves. But it's your bike, not mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Rain View Post
    The final frame is quite similar to the Salsa Vaya, which has know toe overlap issues (in my size of ~55cm) with larger tires. My builder increased the ETT by 25 mm to account for my foot size, crank arm length, the diameter of 700 x 45 tires, and the frame (with fork) geometry. While this may not perfectly eliminate toe overlap, it will certainly help and the adjustment is small enough so fit will be fine with a slightly shorter stem.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by SVO View Post
    Sorry, just don't agree with the approach. An inch is a big difference in ETT, especially for a bike intended for long hours in the saddle but little to no quick handling moves. But it's your bike, not mine.
    And not to mention the difference in handling when you switch between two (very) different tire sizes (ex: 35mm & 45mm).
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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by SVO View Post
    Sorry, just don't agree with the approach. An inch is a big difference in ETT, especially for a bike intended for long hours in the saddle but little to no quick handling moves. But it's your bike, not mine.
    I agree that this frame is not traditional and perhaps closer to a drop bar 29er than a traditional cross bike. I will likely have to play with stem length and possibly stack height. Sure, the frame is an untested risk, but so is a ride on a wild mustang. I will be sure to followup with test-ride reports.
    "I'm going to work so that it's a pure guts race at the end, and if it is, I am the only one who can win it." - Prefontaine

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Rain View Post
    I agree that this frame is not traditional and perhaps closer to a drop bar 29er than a traditional cross bike. I will likely have to play with stem length and possibly stack height. Sure, the frame is an untested risk, but so is a ride on a wild mustang. I will be sure to followup with test-ride reports.
    99.999999999% of the population can't ride a wild mustang. Your odds aren't looking that good!
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  22. #72
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    Oh Dear, Oh Dear....

    Hard Rain, your frame will be fine. A long ETT is not a problem and will enhance the gravel experience. There will always be a compromise in the smaller frame sizes, just as there are in the larger ones. The longer ETT also gives you more front centre, which makes your bike more stable on long non technical gravel rides. My ETT is 600mm so I do not think 575mm is a big deal. You just set your ride position up the same way as on any frame, Seat set up then reach to the H/bar. No big deal. Yes there are perfect ideals, but in the gravel riding with long straights world, quick handling is not high on the list. Also, my bike is set up to use 26 x 2.1" and 700 x 35 wheels. 2 different tire widths. I ride them with Schwable Rocket Rons on front and Racing Ralphs on the rear.
    The perfect way to test theories. Frankly, I cannot tell the difference between the wheelsets on gravel, but only to say that 35mm is faster, 2.1" are a little softer in ride.
    Grip levels on pea gravel are the same and handling is not compromised.

    Hope you build up a good ride and enjoy your bike.

    Eric
    If I don't make an attempt, how will I know if it will work?

  23. #73
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    Eric, I agree. With the ability to adjust the stem, stack, and seat heights, I believe that my frame will fit just fine. In fact, my builder has been working with my dimensions, and with the final build, he suggests an 80cm stem length.

    In addition to the longer front center, my frame will have a longer wheelbase than a standard CX bike. This also provides greater stability on gravel rides as touted for years by Gary Fisher.
    "I'm going to work so that it's a pure guts race at the end, and if it is, I am the only one who can win it." - Prefontaine

  24. #74
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    Pictures of Frame

    Here are some pictures of the finished product! Now to finish the build.

    Looking for a carbon gravel grinder!-img_7155.jpgLooking for a carbon gravel grinder!-img_7164.jpgLooking for a carbon gravel grinder!-img_7171.jpg
    "I'm going to work so that it's a pure guts race at the end, and if it is, I am the only one who can win it." - Prefontaine

  25. #75
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    The Final Build.

    A very sweet test ride!
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    "I'm going to work so that it's a pure guts race at the end, and if it is, I am the only one who can win it." - Prefontaine

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