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  1. #1
    Glorified Hybrid Owner
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    Disc-Only CrossCheck in 2012

    Two CrossChecks in 2012 -

    1. Stays exactly as it has been for years.

    2. Keep the geometry, keep the traditional fork, keep the FFF tire clearance...

    ...just lose the cantis and add disc-mounts.

    PUH-LEASE!

  2. #2
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    You'll lose the nice traditional fork. The forces from a disc brake are applied asymmetrically to the weaker lower part of a traditional fork which is why you'll notice all Surly's with discs use a a really beefy MTB fork.

    If you want a disc brake on your CC just put a different fork on it. The front brake does most of the work so you can just use the rear rim brake lightly or not at all.

    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  3. #3
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    Good luck with that, I'd be suprised if they offered a duplicate model with only one minor variation.
    For the record, I like my CxC without discs. V-brakes and long pull levers provide all the stopping power i need on a cyclocross bike, and I don't have to worry about disc/rack compatibility issues. They look clean without the extra mounts and guides in place.

  4. #4
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    I'd prefer discs for the off-roading I do in winter (water & mud - no snow in Auckland) but the canti's are great for most of my riding. I think if the bike was going to see more duty as a mountainbike I would buy a Salsa Fargo instead.

  5. #5
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    Another vote for keeping it disc-less. Cleaner, lighter, and Vs give me all the power I need. Besides, a rear disc would screw up the rear dropout for single speed use--you couldn't switch gears without moving your disc as well.

  6. #6
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    I saw in one of the surly spews that they acknowledged the racket some discs make. I was excited to see that because I cannot tame the squeal on my one disc-only bike. It might still be me and not discs in general, but it really doesn't make me want to seek out any more disc bikes.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post


    You'll lose the nice traditional fork. The forces from a disc brake are applied asymmetrically to the weaker lower part of a traditional fork which is why you'll notice all Surly's with discs use a a really beefy MTB fork.

    If you want a disc brake on your CC just put a different fork on it. The front brake does most of the work so you can just use the rear rim brake lightly or not at all.

    Singular has one on their Peregrine.

    That being said, I'd gladly run a Dimension 410mm or 1x1 413mm fork.

  8. #8
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    I'm not saying get rid of the canti version but make a disc version as well.

    Most of my bikes are disc only and I just don't see rims as wear items anymore. I've had discs since 2000.

    http://www.singularcycles.com/peregrine.html

    In regards to the dropout: Surly has done it with the KM and 1x1 and the Troll, I believe.

  9. #9
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    I had a Peregrine. That forks weighs three pounds. No thanks.

    The dropout on the KM isn't as nice on the CC: with the CC's angled dropout, you can easily adjust the wheel and not mess up the brakes (I like to run two rings up front and two or three cogs in the back on my CC, no derailer)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockhound View Post

    Most of my bikes are disc only and I just don't see rims as wear items anymore. I've had discs since 2000.
    I've had discs since 2000 as well and my LHT is over 7yrs old with many many thousands of KMs on it and the original rims. My GF commutes daily on her CC and after a year the rims are not showing any significant wear. This is in the PNW. I just don't see rim wear as a major concern. If you ride your disc brake bikes enough you'll have to replace rims simply due to mileage even if you never use a rim brake.

    Surly makes many disc brake frames. If you want discs ride one of them or swap in a disc fork to a CC.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  11. #11
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    Vik has good thoughts. I prefer my cantis

  12. #12
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    I have a disc fork and I'll probably eventually weld a disc tab onto the rear. Rim brakes suck in the winter. It's a Travelers Check so I can't just get the proper frame. The couplers are what's important.

  13. #13
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    I think disc tabs on the LHT makes more sense. Discs become almost necessity when you've got a heavy load of cargo too.

  14. #14
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    From Surly's Blog:

    I’m not saying we won’t ever do this, but here are a few of reasons we’ve avoided disc brakes on road bikes to now:

    1. We like our frames to be versatile and often a set of disc brakes will preclude the use of some other bits like fenders and racks. We like fenders and racks.
    2. There are not many road bike-specific disc brakes, and drop bar brake levers don’t work on mountain handlebars.
    3. Cantilever and linear pull brakes work well for most people on most bikes most of the time.
    4. One of us (who weighs 230lbs and stands about 6’6”) uses v-brakes on his Big Dummy cargo bike – and lives where there are actual hills. He has not died because of this. If he does, we’ll let you know. Also, rim brakes are simple to set up and maintain. When you’re maintaining your own stuff, especially if you’re on a long tour, simple repairability is a really good thing.

    None of this is not to say that discs are a bad idea or you shouldn’t want them or anything like that. We’re just saying that there is a feature of peoples’ desire for discs that in our opinion outpaces the reality of the situation. But who knows? We’re full of surprises.

  15. #15
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    I feel like this topic pops up at least once every 6 months...

  16. #16
    vik
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostBoyScout View Post
    I think disc tabs on the LHT makes more sense. Discs become almost necessity when you've got a heavy load of cargo too.
    I and thousands of other LHT owners are riding fully loaded touring bikes in the mountains with rim brakes and having no trouble stopping our bikes...

    We’re just saying that there is a feature of peoples’ desire for discs that in our opinion outpaces the reality of the situation.
    +100 - absolutely....
    safe riding,

    Vik
    www.thelazyrando.com

  17. #17
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    I gotta disagree with Vik and Surly on this one. If you want to run STI shifters on a cyclocross or touring bike, then discs (Avid BB7 road) are the only way to go. Cantilevers suck and V-brakes require a cam to make the cable pull work. I'm sure that someone will try to tell me that cantilevers are just as good as discs or V-brakes, but I have lots of personal experience that says they don't stop as well and are harder to adjust. If you put the disc mount inside the rear triangle (Salsa Vaya, Surly Troll) then you can run racks just fine. They are also EASIER to adjust than rim brakes.

    If you run bar end shifters, then V-brakes with Cane Creek SC-5 levers are the hot ticket, but if you run brake/shifter combo levers, then Avid BB7 road discs are the answer. Which means no Crosscheck or LHT, but there's always the Salsa Vaya (but dang are sloping top tubed Salsas fugly).

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29 View Post
    I gotta disagree with Vik and Surly on this one. If you want to run STI shifters on a cyclocross or touring bike, then discs (Avid BB7 road) are the only way to go. Cantilevers suck and V-brakes require a cam to make the cable pull work. I'm sure that someone will try to tell me that cantilevers are just as good as discs or V-brakes, but I have lots of personal experience that says they don't stop as well and are harder to adjust. If you put the disc mount inside the rear triangle (Salsa Vaya, Surly Troll) then you can run racks just fine. They are also EASIER to adjust than rim brakes.

    If you run bar end shifters, then V-brakes with Cane Creek SC-5 levers are the hot ticket, but if you run brake/shifter combo levers, then Avid BB7 road discs are the answer. Which means no Crosscheck or LHT, but there's always the Salsa Vaya (but dang are sloping top tubed Salsas fugly).
    I don't run brifters so you address a point I overlook from lack of interest, but that other folks probably care about a lot. Cantis are harder to adjust than either BB7s or v-brakes, but if adjusted correctly there isn't any difference. Having said that I have to refer to Sheldon Brown every time I deal with setting up cantis.



    I think the real issue is losing the nice curved steel fork on the LHT or CC to get a disc compatible fork into the mix. To me that's not worth it to avoid the extra hassle of setting up some cantis correctly.



    The trouble, as you point out with the issue between brifters and v-brakes, is that you can't change only what you want on a bike and keep the other parts you like in the face of physics and bicycle design.

    Brifters don't pull enough cable for v-brakes so that leads you to cantis or road specific disc brakes.

    Disc brakes apply an asymmetrical load to the lower part of a fork which means you lose the classic supple steel fork and get a stiff rigid MTB style fork.

    Mechanical disc brakes need higher force transmitted through the cable to squeeze the small pads on the small rotor to stop the bike vs. rim brakes operating on the much bigger rotor that is the rim which requires less force. The higher force of a mech disc results in a mushy feel at some point as you start to compress the cable housing.

    None of these things is a show stopper, but it does mean that there are always trade offs depending which route you choose to go down.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I think the real issue is losing the nice curved steel fork on the LHT or CC to get a disc compatible fork into the mix. To me that's not worth it to avoid the extra hassle of setting up some cantis correctly.

    The trouble, as you point out with the issue between brifters and v-brakes, is that you can't change only what you want on a bike and keep the other parts you like in the face of physics and bicycle design.

    Brifters don't pull enough cable for v-brakes so that leads you to cantis or road specific disc brakes.

    Disc brakes apply an asymmetrical load to the lower part of a fork which means you lose the classic supple steel fork and get a stiff rigid MTB style fork.

    Mechanical disc brakes need higher force transmitted through the cable to squeeze the small pads on the small rotor to stop the bike vs. rim brakes operating on the much bigger rotor that is the rim which requires less force. The higher force of a mech disc results in a mushy feel at some point as you start to compress the cable housing.

    None of these things is a show stopper, but it does mean that there are always trade offs depending which route you choose to go down.
    You can make a traditional disc fork...

    In addition to Singular, Jamis makes a disc-specific cross/touring fork.
    http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebik...roraelite.html

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by vik View Post
    I and thousands of other LHT owners are riding fully loaded touring bikes in the mountains with rim brakes and having no trouble stopping our bikes...
    In good weather, I believe it. But if it's snowing, then another story! I love the LHT but a disc option would be good for a lot of people.

  21. #21
    anyone else smell that?
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    rawland didn't do too bad with the concept. not as pretty as the lht fork, but functional.



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  22. #22
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    This thread is a little disappointing. I was hoping Surly was a little more forward looking and I was hoping to pick up a disc ready Cross Check in the next year or so. It is extremely sad to see the "we have gotten by with X, so X is all we need" argument. We got by just fine for a hundred thousand years without bicycles, cars, computers, electricity, etc. You guys ready to give all that up? Surely we don't need it.

    (yes, hippies who are about to press Post Reply and tell me about how much you hate technology and you love the beach/mountains/whatever and that's all you need, I know you exist, but you are the extreme minority)

  23. #23
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    I love the beach/mountains/whatever.

    Skip
    Surly Bikes

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minjin View Post
    This thread is a little disappointing. I was hoping Surly was a little more forward looking and I was hoping to pick up a disc ready Cross Check in the next year or so. It is extremely sad to see the "we have gotten by with X, so X is all we need" argument. We got by just fine for a hundred thousand years without bicycles, cars, computers, electricity, etc. You guys ready to give all that up? Surely we don't need it.
    I dunno, Surly has always been conservative with their bike/frame designs. One of the reasons that their bikes are so popular amongst the bike mechanics of the world is that they are simple, well designed, and just work. Since the 1x1 or Troll could be set up with discs, I don't see much real need for discs on the CC.

    I think Surly's response about the availability of disc options for drop bar bikes is the most telling. Given what I perceive as their design thoughts, I think a disc CC would be much more likely if there were more options in this arena

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skip Bernet View Post
    I love the beach/mountains/whatever.

    Skip
    Surly Bikes
    You damned dirty ape!

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