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  1. #1
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    CX Tubeless setup thread

    What works and what doesn't in terms of tubeless setup, tire/rim combo, rim strip, tape etc.

    So far I've used Hutchinson Piranha UST 34C on Stan's NoTubes Crest rims w/ yellow tape and Stan's goop and worked flawlessly over last season, with pressure down to 40psi.

    Got a set of Raven's 35C, again tubeless ready, so I have no doubt they'll work ok, but selection of Tubeless ready tires pretty much ends there.

    I plan to experiment with Kenda Kwick 32C and 34C and see how ti goes.

    Anybody else playing with tubeless with good results?
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  2. #2
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    i tried to do tubeless (Mavic Krysirium wheels, Specialized and Kenda tires) but found that pressures had to be so high to keep from burping that it wasn't worth it.

    gave up on tubeless, but i will admit that i didn't have stans rims and my tire selection was limited.
    Try to be good.

  3. #3
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    I'm running stans arch with schwalbe marathon extreme. One of the tires is constantly weeping a bit of sealant but I only need to add air about once/wk so it doesn't seem like a big deal. Not sure why that happening on one tire and not the other.

  4. #4
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    Marco,

    I've done ghetto tubeless on a number of different tires (Ritchey Speed Max, Conti's, WTB Pathways), but found the Hutchinson Bulldog up front and the Piranha in back is a SWEET set-up. I raced those last year and they worked like a charm.

    They just don't last very long, especially if you ride a lot of pavement, or in our case the hard packed "dirty asphalt" we call San Jose trails.

    Right now I have fatties on my bike: Continental CX (700 X 45) knobby in front and a Ritchey Speed Max Pro (700 X 42) in back; tubes filled with sealant for the goat heads.

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    After a little trial and error I set up a pair of Ksyrium SL's with a Michelin Mud 2 and Jet Combo. They've been holding air since last Saturday so I think I might give them a shot this weekend.

    The magic ingredient was doing 2 layers of Stan's tape to build up the inside of the rims. The tires wouldn't seat without it. Once that was in place the tires seated right up with the help of some soapy water. Put 2 ounces of Stan's sealant inside each tire and that took care of a couple spots where air was leaking.

    I originally tried Cafe Latex but didn't have any luck with sealing leaks.

  6. #6
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    I wouldn't ride anything but Stan's rims, but I'm paranoid about blowing tires off the rims.
    The Piranha are great, except for wearing out quickly on pavement, haven't tried Bulldog. I do a lot of commute miles to work and about 50%of it is on pavement.

    Tried to put on the Kenda Kwiker 32C, they seem more durable, especially with the DTC. The tire is super tight on the Crest Rims, which is good, but a single layer of yellow tape didn't do the trick so I'll be trying for two.

    I''ve heard of people having good luck with the Ksiriums and Michelin.
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  7. #7
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    I will attempt ghetto tubeless on the super tight speedmax pro 32 next week. They were so tight getting on I bet they'll work. Hopeful. Rims are Alex Race 28 Pro.

    The speed king 35 will not work. Too loose.

    A set of Ultegra WH-6700 is my last resort but right now I'm having fun not caring about my Alex Pro set with tubes.

  8. #8
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    You guys doing ghetto setup... What tube size do you use? A 650c or even a 26" mtb since I'm cutting it down anyway? Running ghetto on my mtb without any problems and was thinking about trying it out on cx with a set of Ksyriums.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crosstown Stew View Post
    You guys doing ghetto setup... What tube size do you use? A 650c or even a 26" mtb since I'm cutting it down anyway? Running ghetto on my mtb without any problems and was thinking about trying it out on cx with a set of Ksyriums.
    20" tube.

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  10. #10
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    Had good results with Hutchinson Bulldogs and Piranhas using Salsa Delgado Cross rims and 26" tubes set up ghetto tubeless and Crossmax 29er rims with Stans tape. Seemingly low pressures were possible, down to the tire-squirm range and the beads held.

    I had OK results with Geax Mezcal Cross tires going Ghetto tubeless with Salsa Delgado Cross but they don't grip the rims nearly as snug as their Saguero 29er big brothers. The Mexcal needed high pressures to keep from burping.

    Used Maxxis Razes tires never sealed tubeless for me.

    Cafe Latex was good but did not seal large punctures, similar holes (within reason) were sealed by Stans, so I ended up going with Stans over Cafe Latex.

  11. #11
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    I raced a full CX season last year on Stan's Crest rims set up tubeless with minimal burping issues.....and when I finally did get a burp that led to a flat, it was in the biggest race..

    for my local Sacramento series, I primarily ran Raven's for the first few races, then switched over to Michelin Mud 2's as the season wore on. I would use one 'cup' of Stan's fluid in each tire, and the Raven's never ever burped. The Mud 2's were also generally fine, but I burped one badly at CX Nationals in Bend on the first lap of the SS race on the very first lap which knocked me out of the race. I'm pretty sure my pressure was too low when that happened. I would generally run PSI in the upper 20's, and for that Bend race, I was using a borrowed pump that wasn't very accurate and I think I was too low.

    One thing about the Crest's, is that they have a wider inner rim cavity as compared to most other XC oriented MTB rims, and of course CX/road specific clincher rims as well. So this would spread the tire out a bit wider and decrease the sidewall height. With MTB tires, it obviously doesn't matter so much, but with narrower CX tires, the decreased sidewall height can possibly lead to rim dings and burps if you hit ruts too or rocks too hard. In my case in Nationals when I burped, I was plowing through a deep mud puddle and felt my rim ding something in the water. I was leaving quite the trail of Stan's goo around that muddy course after that.......
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  12. #12
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    Sounds like very low pressure to me, I'm pretty sure you are a lot lighter than me, but I run that pressure on 2.1-2.4 tires, not 32C. Do you see an advantage of any kind running so low pressure?

    I usually don't trust the pump gauge, have a digital one that seems to be pretty accurate.
    I take the Raven doesn't do too good in super muddy conditions, right?
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  13. #13
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    Last year I had a terrible time trying to set up Sun EQ21s tubeless, and finally gave up. I did have success with the ghetto split tube method (24" tube) on Salsa Delgado Cross rims w/ 34mm Panaracer Cinder X tires.

    I just successfully got the Sun EQ21s to work though this year (this past Friday actually). I used Panaracer 31mm Crossblaster tires Stan's 29'er rim strips, and added a layer of Velox® tape to the rim. The smaller tire size and thicker rim tape made all the difference (tighter fit) and they aired up like champs.

    Gave them a good test ride yesterday and was impressed. I bombed a rocky descent w/o issue only to come up on a group of about 8 riders from a local club who had just suffered multiple punctures on the same descent on their cx bikes.

  14. #14
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    Brake set up

    I'm currently building a bike with Stans Alphas and disk hubs to have the option of running disk. I run crest tubeless on my mountain bike with no trouble. I'm curious if those of you using crest,arches, ect are running bb7's ? I'm going to be running trp cx8.4 for now. I'm going to try tubeless with the Schwalbe marathon as a starter.
    Last edited by Repo; 09-06-2011 at 06:24 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repo View Post
    I'm currently building a bike with Stans Alpahs and disk hubs to have the option of running disk. I run crest tubeless on my mountain bike with no trouble. I'm curious if those of you using crest,arches, ect are running bb7's ? I'm going to be running trp cx8.4 for now. I'm going to try tubeless with the Schwalbe marathon as a starter.
    I got the Alphas 340 with 3.30 hubs which I'm using as a road wheelset (tubed) and Crests on ZTR as CX: both running happily with Avid BB7
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  16. #16
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    I am excited to go into another successful season with Fulcrum's with Stan's rim strip, taped and sidewalls of Schwalbe Racing Ralph's glued with a layer of Continental tubular glue for burp-prevention.

    27lbs for the super-slop, 33-35 or so for everything else. I there was ever a leak, Stan's fixed it before I even knew.

    I like the tire in enough conditions that the hassle of switching tires doesn't exist. About 1/2 way through the season I'll swap front and rear. The glue is tacky and re-sticks nicely without having to apply more.

    Love the set-up!

  17. #17
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    Got the Kenda Kwicker 32c sealed in one second on Crest rim, two layers of yellow tape 21mm. Test ride in the morning.
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  18. #18
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    Alpha 340 and Chris King hubs on the way! NoTubes has not let me down yet on my MTB so my Santa Cruz Stigmata is going to be one of my sickest builds!

  19. #19
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    Arch rims, yellow tape, and Mud2s. They sealed up instantly, held pressure overnight, felt good on a neighborhood test ride. Hopefully a good sign of their future reliability.

  20. #20
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    Ksyriums setup ghetto with 24" tube and stan's, continential cx speed 35, Continental Bicycle -Cyclocross Speed

    Went on easily enough and setup fine without any leaks from around the bead, but there are tons of small holes in the sidewalls of these tires, probably 20-30 on each side for both tires. Had to use 2 scoops of stan's in each wheel.

    It's only been 15 hrs so don't know if these will hold air over time but for now they're fine. Will used a 20" tube next time, the 24" isn't tight enough for my liking but does work okay if you already have them.

    Edit: After about 30 hours they didn't hold, added more stan's and re-set-up for 24hrs and they didn't hold. From other threads I've heard you sometimes have to build up the centers with some yellow tape so going to try that next time but for now going back to tubes so I can ride.
    Last edited by Crosstown Stew; 09-13-2011 at 12:03 PM.

  21. #21
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    Alpha's with ravens on a customers bike and I'm currently running some schwalbe RaRa on crests. This setup took some love during the setup due to holes in the sidewall, but has held fine for over a month. Last year I ran bulldogs on kinlin 30's.

  22. #22
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    I set up a pair of new Clement PDX on magic axsium with the Stan's rim strip & sealant last night. Left the current rim strip for the wheels in place.

    Took all of 20 seconds per wheel to inflate with the compressor, then brought the pressure up to 80 with floor pump to set the bead (only needed to do it on 1 tire). Still hard as a rock this am and ready to rip.

    Must say those clement's are pretty dang big for 33's (at least much larger than my WTB Cross Wolf & Kenda sm8's). Looking forward to running the setup this weekend

  23. #23
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    Last weekend I had a Maxis Raze up font and a kenda small block in back set up on American Classic 29er rims. The Maxis burped twice the first time leaving me with about 10psi, and the second time going totally flat. I read on a CX website that the Maxis has not been a good candidate for tubeless conversion.

    I am now trying Kenda Small blocks on Mavic Aksium rims. I used two layers of stan's tubeless tape. So far so good, but I am running 40psi a a starting point.

  24. #24
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    Running Stan's Alpha Cyclocross wheels with Specialized captain cx tubeless tires. Have about 200 miles on the tires so far and they are performing flawlessly between 35-40 psi, and they inflated easily with a floor pump. Gonna try running lower pressure today to see if they burp.

  25. #25
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    Well, my first race went well with Clement PDX set up on Mavic Aksium's with a rim-strip. Ran them at about 35 ish psi. Though the course was predominately dirt and no tight corners to have any sidewall flex.

    This past saturday was a different story, much tighter corners and a bit more technical terrain. Set my tires up at about 32 psi. Rolled the front one of the rim on a curb rolling to the start line, rolled the rear on a tight corner on the 1st lap. Not sure if it was the lower pressure/additional side load or if the tires have broken in and are a little flexier. Going to give em another chance and reset them up at higher pressure 40+ and see if they can still hold during the group ride tomorrow am. If not, who's sell some tubulars?

  26. #26
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    does anyone else use tubular glue + stans on clincher rims? I've seen this mentioned a few times and am curious how well this works.
    something about the west coast...it makes me wanna ride

  27. #27
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    CX mag has an interesting article here http://www.cxmagazine.com/going-tube...ecommendations

  28. #28
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    I'm getting close to giving up on my gorilla tape-ghetto tubeless setup (Easton EA50 wheels with hutchinson Piranahs and clement pdxs). It works great on trails and on all my training rides but it has failed me twice big time in races (putting the record at 2 out of 3 races for the year). The issue only seems to be there on really tight and bumpy turns and only on my rear tire. There might only be one turn on course that I have an issue with, but once it burps out enough pressure once, then it keeps losing pressure elsewhere. Maybe a little more pressure would help, but then I'm back at my tubed pressure. The tubular glue idea might be worth the try, but I'm not sure if it's worth the effort to experiment with another failure in a race. First failure, it was on the last turn, so it only cost me a top ten spot. This past weekend (when I finally got a call-up), it took me from the top 5 and put me in 88th, as I had to run in the last 1/2 mile or so.

  29. #29
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    Non-UST Bulldogs with Stans @40PSI,

    DNF averted:

    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

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    Anyone have any luck with Challenge Fangos or Panaracer crossblasters? Was thinking of going split tube ghetto.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmancrx View Post
    Anyone have any luck with Challenge Fangos or Panaracer crossblasters? Was thinking of going split tube ghetto.
    I had success with Crossblasters on Velocity Dyad and Salsa Delgado CX rims last year doing the split tube method. This year I'm using Sun EQ21 rims, with 1 layer of Velox and a Stan's rim strip.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB2 View Post
    I had success with Crossblasters on Velocity Dyad and Salsa Delgado CX rims last year doing the split tube method. This year I'm using Sun EQ21 rims, with 1 layer of Velox and a Stan's rim strip.
    I have velocity deep V's maybe I will give it a shot. Only thing I would loose is a 26"mtb tube and a little sealant.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmancrx View Post
    Anyone have any luck with Challenge Fangos or Panaracer crossblasters? Was thinking of going split tube ghetto.
    From what I have heard Challenge tires will not work. The high thread count poly cotton casing is susceptible to sealant's corrosive properties. Apparently the sealant will destroy the skinwall casings of those tires.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocruiser View Post
    Non-UST Bulldogs with Stans @40PSI,

    DNF averted:




    Any burping issues with the Ulterga wheels?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mblock View Post
    From what I have heard Challenge tires will not work. The high thread count poly cotton casing is susceptible to sealant's corrosive properties. Apparently the sealant will destroy the skinwall casings of those tires.....
    Thanks for the tip. The Challenges are a nice tire even tubed. They feel nice and supple.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by vs779 View Post
    Any burping issues with the Ulterga wheels?
    None at that pressure, and at lower pressures, none that wouldn't have pinch-flatted a tube.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mblock View Post
    From what I have heard Challenge tires will not work. The high thread count poly cotton casing is susceptible to sealant's corrosive properties. Apparently the sealant will destroy the skinwall casings of those tires.....

    I'll be trying to convert some Clement PDX's this weekend - I'll report back and update the thread.

    I've been using the bulldog's tubeless, and they work very well. They aired up with a floor pump on my mavic SLs with a rubber stan's strip.

  38. #38
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    Alpha 340's with Hutchinson Pirhana rear and Bulldog front. Pumped up F42, R 48 and did a 30 mile road ride no issues. One thing is for sure. 40 psi tubless feels like 60 psi with tubes.. Ill be running 25 with ease at 200lbs : ) I love you Mr. NoTubes!!!

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  40. #40
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    Cross blasters mounted up great ghetto

    Mounted the Panaracer Cross blaster on a velocity deep V using a 26 inch tube. Aired up right away with an air compressor. I did a 20 mile dirt ride an I think they held air with no problem. Hooked up nicely on the corners.

  41. #41
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    First race on Arches with Mud2s: excellent.

    32psi front and 35 rear...I feel like I can go a good bit lower. I run 20 psi front and 23 rear in my mtb tires. Anyone else got a comparo between their cx and mtb tubeless pressures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Overkill View Post
    I'll be trying to convert some Clement PDX's this weekend - I'll report back and update the thread.

    I've been using the bulldog's tubeless, and they work very well. They aired up with a floor pump on my mavic SLs with a rubber stan's strip.
    Just an update on converting the Clement PDX to tubeless:

    I used Mavic SL rims with stan's rubber rim strip and they aired up easily with my mini shop compressor (I didn't try my floor pump). I added approx. 1.75 scoops of stan's to each tire. They didn't weep or leak at all after my initial shake, but I did I ride immediately after mounting them - from my experience, this is generally a good idea to get them sealed perfectly.

    I raced this setup on sunday in muddy conditions and they hooked up extremely well. These tires are in a different class compared to the bulldogs I have had on for the last couple of weeks. The casing is more supple which seems to conform much better to bumps.

    In my warm-up lap I tried 25psi, but I burped the tire after a really poor mount - I suck at mounts as a general rule! For race time to be safe, I put 30psi rear and 28 front, and they performed as well as can be expected for really slick conditions. No bumps to speak of. It *appeared* I was concerning with more confidence compared to guys running tubular girffos, but that's tough to say definitely.

    Note, I'm only 150 pounds, so heavier people will need to go higher.

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    Panaracer cross blaster update

    Ran them last night in a training race. I have them set up ghetto/split tube with stans. I ran about 40 psi as the side walls seem pretty rubbery. They performed nicely on a relatively dry course with grass, clay, cobble, 1 sand pit, roots and tons of black walnuts. So far so good.

  44. #44
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    Running Specialized Royal Pave wheelset, Stan's cyclocross strips, and Schwalbe Sammy Slick tires.

    Spare wheelset - Salsa Delgado Cross rim, Stan's 26-inch strips, and Hutchinson Piranha tires.

    Working fine here. Sometimes one wheel will deflate sooner than the other. I keep them aired up during race season.

  45. #45
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    Two sets of Velocity A23s, set up w/ the standard 26" Stans rimstrip. One set has Hutchinson Intensives for road use, the other set has Bulldogs for 'cross use. I'm closer to 200# than I care to admit, and can run the road tires at 85-90 front/90-100 rear and the cross tires at 32-34 front/36-38 rear, no problems at all.

  46. #46
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    I have a set of alpha 340 laced with dt aerolite spokes on dura ace hubs. My ibis came stock with the Michelin jets, they took a bead and held air easy with a floor pump. Last night I attempted to get a set of Rocket Ron CX tires on and they were a *****. I finally caved and headed to sears to buy a air compressor. Once I had air the front one popped right up, the rear one I had to set a tube in it and let it set for about ten minutes before I could get it to take bead. The rocket Ron sidewalls are real porous but with lots of stans they are holding air.
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  47. #47
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    i want to run a tubeless setup on my gravel road cx bike for endurance events and whatnot, will these setups take potential 80-90psi? What has been the upper limit for PSI?

  48. #48
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    Assuming you're serious, I'll take a stab at your question: WTH would you want to run pressures that high???

    You could go as high as 60 or so with most tires, but they'll ride really rough. No reason to go higher than 50.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudge View Post
    Assuming you're serious, I'll take a stab at your question: WTH would you want to run pressures that high???

    You could go as high as 60 or so with most tires, but they'll ride really rough. No reason to go higher than 50.
    I was serious, i do alot of rides that are 150-200 miles (up to 260 miles so far) long on either Road and/or Gravel. I normally run 35c tires around 70-90 psi depending on the roads.

    Make more sense now?

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hand/of/Midas View Post
    I was serious, i do alot of rides that are 150-200 miles (up to 260 miles so far) long on either Road and/or Gravel. I normally run 35c tires around 70-90 psi depending on the roads.

    Make more sense now?
    For commuting I have 50/50 gravel/pavement and sometimes my road rides end up on dirt, so I run my tubeless setup with Stan's rims and yellow tape + Kenda or Hutchinson up to 85psi: so far a few thousands miles (made a set of hutchinson pyton bald) and zero problems, tubeless saved me from thorns and nails that would have caused me a flat on tubes.

    I don't think there is a real need to go higher, since with a 34c you get pretty good rolling resistance at that pressure and the gain on pavement sections would be negligible IMHO.

    Definitely depends on your weight as well, but I think you would be fine with 35c at 70-90.

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    I picked up a pair of Shimano Ultegra Tubeless ready wheels this year and mounted them with Hutchinson Piranha that I used all last year. Have some issues sealing up but once they did have been perfect. Four races so far this year with 3 being very rough and a bunch of training rides. I am no gracefully racer at 175# as I power over and through stuff and the setup has worked so far. I have been setting the rear at 40 psi and the front at 36'ish. I know that is not low psi but I get plenty of expansion of the tires when I am on the bike.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hand/of/Midas View Post
    I was serious, i do alot of rides that are 150-200 miles (up to 260 miles so far) long on either Road and/or Gravel. I normally run 35c tires around 70-90 psi depending on the roads.

    Make more sense now?
    I had a pretty good idea that was what you were doing, it still doesn't answer the question as to why you'd want to run pressures that high with tires that wide, tubeless no less. I'm just guessing (admittedly) but I'd guess that you passed the point of reduced rolling resistance somewhere around 60-65psi and ventured deep into the realm of decreased shock absorptions/decreased comfort once you passed 70-75psi.

    Having said that, I've temporarily inflated my Hutchinson cross tires up to 80 psi just to get the bead to fully seat, didn't blow 'em off the rims. So, I suppose you could ride them that firm, not that I'd want to.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny K View Post
    First race on Arches with Mud2s: excellent.

    32psi front and 35 rear...I feel like I can go a good bit lower. I run 20 psi front and 23 rear in my mtb tires. Anyone else got a comparo between their cx and mtb tubeless pressures?
    What is your weight? I just set up crests tubeless with mud 2s and I am trying to figure out pressure before my race sunday.

    Thanks!
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

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    Shimano Ultegra wheels with bontrager cxo tires. No issues and no rim strips needed with those wheels just swap the valve.

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    Only been a few weeks on mine, but loving the ride quality and feel

    Mavic Ksyrium SL wheels, Hutchinson Bulldog tires, Stans No Tubes kit.

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    Oh, and I have some Mavic CXP 33s that I was hoping to set up with some road slicks on one of my cx bikes, something like some 28 mm Continental Four Seasons.

    Anyone know if I'd be able to go tubeless on this rim/tire combo?

    If not, since this is my backup cx bike, I might just add some tire strips to get a bit more protection when riding on gravel/off road. I'm going to be using this bike for both around town, winter road riding, and hitting some trails.

    thanks.

  57. #57
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    setup an old Mud 2 (2005 vintage) on a Mavic open pro over the weekend -- Gorilla tape and closed cell weather stripping. The side wall was VERY porous could not get it to hold until I had 2 scoops of sealant(WSS) in and I'd shake it lay it flat and pump air in to force the sealant into the holes. Had to do several rounds of that then I rode it around the yard. When I brought it in I squeezed the side wall and was able to get it to burp. So I went back deflated it and checked to see if it was seated (didn't look like it) so I reseated it by taking it up to 55# then could not get it to burp by hand. rode some easy single track with no burping. Checked it again and could not get it to burp by hand at 37#. may give it a shot at this weekend's race. WIll try and get a rear set up the next couple of days.

  58. #58
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    Cx tubless setup

    Iam runnung Michelin mud 2 on stans crest rims tubless with hope pro 2 hubs on my crux disk ,can run them at 26 to 28 lbs. in dirt no problem and 50 lbs. on road or hard pack.

  59. #59
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    Crossmax 29er/Hutchinson Piranha problem

    The set up held air great but now I can't get the tires off. They went on easy enough but I cant get a tire lever under the bead at all. Any suggestions? Could it be a vacuum problem from letting the air out? I've unscrewed the valve to try to even the pressure on the inside and outside of the tire but it didn't help. I've only got one set of wheels and I need to swap these back to MTB tires asap. Help!

  60. #60
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    Anyone know if dt Swiss rims are tubeless able? I have a pair of 1700 CX wheels and want to try but figured I'd ask first to see if it is worth the attempt.

  61. #61
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    Looks like you guys have had some pretty good success with this. I just picked up a Kona Jake and will look at doing the gorilla tubeless on the stock wheels when I get a chance. Just was looking around and found out that Vittoria is coming out with a TNT version of the Cross XG Pro (clincher) this year. I am going to talk to my LBS about those as I love GEAX tires and have always had luck with them.

  62. #62
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    So I emailed Vittoria about the new Cross XG Pro TNT and actually got a response within a couple hours. Guy said that they are slated for March 2012 release and first shipments to the US are supposed to land in mid April. They will be $62/ea and run the standard TNT setup that is found in the GEAX TNT tires, which means they will suffer from the mounting issues found with BST bead style rims (Stan's, Sun Ringle, etc.). If the folding seal up as well as the GEAX folding then I will definitely go with those but seeing as I am looking at building a secondary set of wheels (Velocity A23, Circus Monkey HRW2 hubs and DT Swiss Comp spokes) I should not have a problem with them. I love Stan's rims though so it will come down to what my budget is at the time.

  63. #63
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    Soon as I get my Vittoria Cross XG Pros I am going to give this a shot of the weekend. Only thing is where do you guys find 20" presta valve tubes or does 26" work well enough? Was going to try ghetto tubeless this time instead of Gorilla Tape tubeless but may have to fall back to the faithful Gorilla Tape method.

  64. #64
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    Clement X'Plor MSO setup tubeless on Alpha 340 rims? Anyone tried it? 60 or 120 tpi?

    I wanted to revive this thread a little bit now that cross season is ramping up hear in NorCal. I've been having great luck flogging my Hutchinson Bulldog 34c on Stan's Alpha 340 rims setup tubeless in the local SF cross series the last few weeks, but Bulldogs are hard to find, and I want to get fatter, like 40c, and the new Clements look cool (I ride an old Air9 so width is not a concern for clearing the frame). Anyone tried it? What's the rule of thumb again of 60tpi vs 120 tpi thread walls? I know 120 take a bit more time to seal, but one burps easier than the other? Seems to me the stiffer 60tpi would be more prone to burping, but I can't recall. I like the 60tpi because they're cheaper! Any other rec's on 40c'ish tires? I had a pair of folding IRC Mythos 42c 4 years ago that worked GREAT on Arch rims set up tubeless, but I can't those tires anymore.
    thx
    Patrick

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    I am kind of curious about the Vittoria Cross XG TNT tires.

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    Does anyone have the schwalbe cx pro pumped up tubeless? 50tpi seams low....

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    I used 2 26 inch by 25mm rubber rimstrips on each rim. I patched up the hole where the valve stem goes through. The overlapping part of the strip has to be trimmed a little so that you don't get any leakage around that site. I used some threaded valves from an old tube. I mounted Maxxis raze on DT swiss 1850 wheels. So far so good as far as sealing and rolling. I flatted last Tuesday but it was a puncture that tore a hold in the tire. That flat would have happened to any tire. It was too big to seal with the Stans but I patched it up and it is now rolling again.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncreative View Post
    does anyone else use tubular glue + stans on clincher rims? I've seen this mentioned a few times and am curious how well this works.
    Bump

  69. #69
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    glad this thread is revived....

    slightly off topic, but can anyone comment on the seals used in the Stan's 340 wheelset hubs? I think they are the 3.30 model hubs... love stan's rims for mtb but haven't tried their hubs and want a bomber seal setup for a new cx wheelset. thanks!

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3daywheelie View Post
    I wanted to revive this thread a little bit now that cross season is ramping up hear in NorCal. I've been having great luck flogging my Hutchinson Bulldog 34c on Stan's Alpha 340 rims setup tubeless in the local SF cross series the last few weeks, but Bulldogs are hard to find, and I want to get fatter, like 40c, and the new Clements look cool (I ride an old Air9 so width is not a concern for clearing the frame). Anyone tried it? What's the rule of thumb again of 60tpi vs 120 tpi thread walls? I know 120 take a bit more time to seal, but one burps easier than the other? Seems to me the stiffer 60tpi would be more prone to burping, but I can't recall. I like the 60tpi because they're cheaper! Any other rec's on 40c'ish tires? I had a pair of folding IRC Mythos 42c 4 years ago that worked GREAT on Arch rims set up tubeless, but I can't those tires anymore.
    thx
    Patrick
    I just set up 120 tpi X'plor MSO on Ultegra tubeless wheels. Pretty loose fit. Needed to let them sit inflated with tubes overnight to get bead to seat. Very porous sidewalls, but sealed up ok.

    On an interesting note - I got a "bad" bottle of Stan's. The sidewalls initially refused to seal, even after I put way too much Stan's in them. Tried adding glitter, no dice. Finally noticed that my brand new bottle of Stan's looked really watery compared to normal. Got a different bottle from the local shop and they sealed right up. Weird.

    Rode Tsali on them yesterday and they were awesome. No word yet on reliability, but I slammed them around pretty good and felt the rim hit a couple times, but no burping or other issues. 40/45 psi, 150lbs.

    As far as what doesn't work - Was running Kenda Happy Mediums before, and developed the Stan's / non-tubeless tire de-lamination after about three weeks. They were great tires as well, but the MSO's are really awesome.
    Yeah, it's strange. But oh well.

  71. #71
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    ^did you shake the crap out of the bottle you suspected as being bad? Possible that bottle had sat around for a while before you purchased it.
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by A1an View Post
    ^did you shake the crap out of the bottle you suspected as being bad? Possible that bottle had sat around for a while before you purchased it.
    Yup. Even after all the shaking it looked more like skim milk than anything else. Oh well. One of those things.
    Yeah, it's strange. But oh well.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny K View Post
    First race on Arches with Mud2s: excellent.

    32psi front and 35 rear...I feel like I can go a good bit lower. I run 20 psi front and 23 rear in my mtb tires. Anyone else got a comparo between their cx and mtb tubeless pressures?
    It is about a year since you posted this (and I'm hoping you are still around)...any updates on this setup? Issues? Changes?

    The more I research wheel builds for my weight and proposed singletrack usage the more it points me back to the Arch EX. Thought about going with a Crest or IronCross but I'm right in the 190-200 range and I'm not sure those could handle my not-so-smooth riding style through our somewhat rooty trails.
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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broussard View Post
    Yup. Even after all the shaking it looked more like skim milk than anything else. Oh well. One of those things.
    I had the same thing happen about 2 years ago. Bought a bottle....shook the crap out of it and noticed it looked thin ....and it would not seal a Schwable tire.
    Called Stan's and they sent me a new bottle right out. It was thicker ( like normal) and sealed the tire first try.

  75. #75
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    Just built up some Velocity A23s, and set up Clement PDXs on there. Velocity tape, Orange Seal (my favorite sealant,) in back. Ran out and had to use Satan's up front. Seating beads took a bit. In retrospect, I'd have used an extra layer of tape.
    Taking them on a short trail ride shakedown tomorrow. Should be a good test of the wheels and tubeless set up.

    Los
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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by sslos View Post
    Just built up some Velocity A23s, and set up Clement PDXs on there. Velocity tape, Orange Seal (my favorite sealant,) in back. Ran out and had to use Satan's up front. Seating beads took a bit. In retrospect, I'd have used an extra layer of tape.
    Taking them on a short trail ride shakedown tomorrow. Should be a good test of the wheels and tubeless set up.

    Los
    Have the same rims and tires - used 2 layers gorilla tape. Had to use the compressor to get them to seal. (I have never had luck with just a tire pump on any tire I have set up) Rode this combo last weekend at Copper Harbor -- some roots and rocks most of trail we rode was hardpacked dirt. Had no problems. Then the next day I rode the Michigan Tech Trails, Rode for about an hour trails were much rockier and rootier -- finally burped the rear on a large rock near the end of the ride. Ran 40 front an rear. I am 250 geared up. Felt the rims hit ALOT at Michigan Tech was very nervous.

  77. #77
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    Well, I'm about 60 lbs. south of you and the trails here are not rocky and rooty, but I was able to run about 35psi front and rear with no burps. The biggest problem was the gravel that the tires threw up at me!
    No offense, but perhaps a bit higher psi may be required at your weight with this set up. At my weight, 35 did feel pretty soft, and I can imagine that I'd bottom them out if I were someplace with lots of rocks and roots.
    As to the set up, I had to do some wheel adjustments on the front, and so just to see how it'd do, I pulled the tire, and added a second layer of Velocity tape. Aired up easily with my floor pump with the core removed.
    Tires have held air well, and it's awfully nice to pull out a couple of goatheads and not worry about it!

    Los
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  78. #78
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    Dialing in the optimal pressure

    Hi All -- I'd really appreciate some advice on dialing in tire pressure. I'm running Stans Alpha 340s with Michelin Muds at 160# body weight and at 35psi. 1-2x per race, the rear tire gets really squirrely on minor g-outs and bumpy corners. It feels like the sidewall is about to fold over which I've never felt on my MTB and is pretty disconcerting. Is this normal for a CX tubelss setup, or do I need to keep ratcheting up the pressure to make it stop? It's never burped or caused a wreck but it seems like this is getting close to the 40psi pressure limit and at that point I'm not sure there's much benefit to running tubeless. I'm also wondering if maybe the 340s are too narrow for their intended purpose(?).

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrIndy View Post
    Hi All -- I'd really appreciate some advice on dialing in tire pressure. I'm running Stans Alpha 340s with Michelin Muds at 160# body weight and at 35psi. 1-2x per race, the rear tire gets really squirrely on minor g-outs and bumpy corners. It feels like the sidewall is about to fold over which I've never felt on my MTB and is pretty disconcerting. Is this normal for a CX tubelss setup, or do I need to keep ratcheting up the pressure to make it stop? It's never burped or caused a wreck but it seems like this is getting close to the 40psi pressure limit and at that point I'm not sure there's much benefit to running tubeless. I'm also wondering if maybe the 340s are too narrow for their intended purpose(?).
    I run my tubeless pressure on the higher side of what most people would consider the "benefit" of a tubeless setup. 40R feels good to me and I weigh 145. I notice that running a tire tubeless at the same pressure as a tube it feels much different and thus I can tolerate some higher pressures. 40 with a tube feels way stiffer than 40 tubeless. The tire is just more supple at the same pressure without a tube IME. That has just been my experience. Play around with tire pressures and see what feels good. Let us know what works.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by sslos View Post
    Well, I'm about 60 lbs. south of you and the trails here are not rocky and rooty, but I was able to run about 35psi front and rear with no burps. The biggest problem was the gravel that the tires threw up at me!
    No offense, but perhaps a bit higher psi may be required at your weight with this set up. At my weight, 35 did feel pretty soft, and I can imagine that I'd bottom them out if I were someplace with lots of rocks and roots.
    As to the set up, I had to do some wheel adjustments on the front, and so just to see how it'd do, I pulled the tire, and added a second layer of Velocity tape. Aired up easily with my floor pump with the core removed.
    Tires have held air well, and it's awfully nice to pull out a couple of goatheads and not worry about it!
    Los
    Don't worry about offending me 250 geared up is not a bad weight When you are 6'6" (although I was at least 10 lbs lighter this summer)

    Yeah I'm gonna try the 45 r and 40 front next. This is the same pressures I ran tubed on my muds for the first race this year. Right now I'm trying to decide if I want to run my Gravel tires tubeless(Panarcer Tservs) have a race next weekend anybody got any history on those tires tubeless?

  81. #81
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    Anyone tried tubeless on deep dish chinese clinchers yet?

    I've had great luck on every rim I've tried; Bontrager, several sets of Stan's, my ENVE XCs and now I want to try a set of 38mm or 50mm carbon rims.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by clydeone View Post
    Right now I'm trying to decide if I want to run my Gravel tires tubeless(Panarcer Tservs) have a race next weekend anybody got any history on those tires tubeless?
    I've run panaracer paselas tubeless on all kinds of gravel, jeep trail, fire road etc and they work great for me.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deeps Elgnis View Post
    I've run panaracer paselas tubeless on all kinds of gravel, jeep trail, fire road etc and they work great for me.
    I was going to try and set them up - have to mix up more sealant though

  84. #84
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    I set up some A23's with a layer of gorilla tape, Stan's CC 29er rimstrips, and sealant successfully with a Ritchey WCS shield on the front and a Kenda slant 6 in the rear. Had to use a compressor. No issues thus far.
    I'm also curious about the chinese carbon clinchers being run tubeless. Being a narrower rim I'm thinking it might not be the best idea.

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    I just ordered some Velocity A23s and will be looking to set them up tubeless... has anyone tried the tubeless kit that Velocity makes? I was thinking of giving that a shot first...
    "I have one speed. I have one gear: Go." -- Charlie Sheen

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ender. View Post
    I just ordered some Velocity A23s and will be looking to set them up tubeless... has anyone tried the tubeless kit that Velocity makes? I was thinking of giving that a shot first...
    Me.
    Double wrap the rims (2 layers of tape,) and depending on your tire choice, soap the beads. I should have done both from the onset with my PDXs. Consequently, they took a little bit to get the bead to pop into place with a compressor.
    After a bit of wheel work, I added a second layer of tape to the front, and it aired right up with my soon-to-be-dead, asthmatic floor pump.
    The valves are really nicely done, great fit into the rim well, and the removable core is well made.

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  87. #87
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    Update: Tires held well. Raced them on a very tough course with rough, dry sections, damp grass, and lots, LOTS of off camber sections! 32.5psi front, 34.5 rear, no burps or wallowing. Love these tires, love the fact that I picked up 5 goatheads the day before and had no worries. Tubeless rocks!

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    Are you guys running the new tubless A23's or the older ones?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gfsugar View Post
    Are you guys running the new tubless A23's or the older ones?
    New has distinct ledges for the bead

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    I'm running the older A23's

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    Newer, made in Flor'da for me.

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    I recently setup a pair of clement PDXs on a stans crest (front) and a 355 (rear) on my crux expert disc. So far I've ridden them a number of times on a cx course, in a fairly technical cx race, and on singletrack mtb trails without any problems. I weigh around 185 and have been running closer to 40 psi. So far it has been a great experience. As others have mentioned, 40psi tubeless feels a lot lower than 40psi with tubes, and grip with the same tires seems improved.

    Everyone warned me that tubeless was a no-no for cross, but I'm glad I tried it for myself. Many probably don't want to believe tubeless is a valid replacement for their pain in the @ss tubulars that are superior by a seemingly decreasing margin. Component choices (rims, tires) seem to make a bigger difference as to whether tubeless will work consistently, although I'll be able to say that more confidently after I have an entire season on them under my belt.

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    Finally got the panaracer tservs setup last night. They were not the easiest to get to seat. Couldn't get them to hold air without sealant very porous sidewall. I used a scoop and a half of Wade's secret sauce did a few shake and lay on side. They had only lost a few pounds so I aired em up and rode to work on them this morning. Ran 45 f /50 rear. The back seemed soften by the time I got into work. I'll check them in a while. Would not suprise me that they lost air as porous as the sidewall was. Other wise it appears they will work for this weekend's gravel race.

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    I set up some Specialized Captain CX Pros on a Stans Arch EX and a WTB Speeddisc. They seemed to be fine, and lost air overnight. I aired up in the morning and threw the wheels in my trunk. 5 min later the tire blew off the Stans rim. The other one was fine. Weird. I would have expected the other way around. Mind you the beads were pretty loose on both rims. Anyway, I resorted to a tube for the Stans rim. The front is fine still.

  95. #95
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    Tservs worked fine today. Raced the Lowell 50 (50 mile gravel race near Grand Rapids, MI) today had zero problems. Biggest challenge was some nasty potholes I could not avoid. zero burps.

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    My bike is not set up for racing. In the last week I did mount up my Schwalbe Marathon Mondial tires tubeless on a set of Stans ArchEX rims. So far have a few rides on them including a 46 mile ride yesterday. Running about 28/30psi (F/R) and that seems to be working well. I find the rolling resistance on the road is less and the grip in the dirt is better. I didn't use enough sealant the first time around so had to pump in another ounce to finish up sealing them. I like the look and feel of the 700x40 tires on the 24mm wide rim, I had them on a 19mm wide rim originally and they looked a little pinched.
    Last edited by 4Crawler; 10-28-2012 at 10:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clydeone View Post
    Don't worry about offending me 250 geared up is not a bad weight When you are 6'6" (although I was at least 10 lbs lighter this summer)

    Yeah I'm gonna try the 45 r and 40 front next. This is the same pressures I ran tubed on my muds for the first race this year. Right now I'm trying to decide if I want to run my Gravel tires tubeless(Panarcer Tservs) have a race next weekend anybody got any history on those tires tubeless?
    Ran the PDXs today at 40 f 45 r -- burped the front on an awkward uphill dismount on lap 3 of 7. Finished the race but didn't burp again wound up with 20 pounds in the front. It was strange. I was being very careful. Lost 3-4 places after that.

    Also I blew a Tire off a rim today. First time I have ever done that. luckily I was outside I was remounting my Tservs after the race for tomorrow's commute. I went ahead and remounted the tire more carefully this time. I'll see if it holds.

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    Additional info -- after burping my last 2 races -- I finally was able to complete one without a burp. In a race 3 weeks ago I burped the front so last week I added a 3rd layer of gorilla tape to the front AND I burped the rear. This was a race in Kalamazoo and i burped when I slid through an off camber up hill turn. So I added a 3rd layer to the rear this week nd ran 45 f / 50 r and was able to finish. This race was a decent test with a few tight grass corners that I was generally sliding through a bit. But not a lot of off camber. I am running Clement PDXs on A23s. One more race for me this year. A generally muddy affair in Holland, Michigan probably won't be a great test for burping and I will likely drop the pressure by 5# front and rear.

  99. #99
    BVK
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    Feb 2005
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    Did anybody try tubeless mounting of tires with WIRE bead?
    A little background:
    I am using tubeless (tubeless ready, non tubeless, you name it) on MTB for many years and I have never DNF-ed because of tires.
    I got a CX bike and was surprised reading about the terrible reliability of tubeless set-ups. So I tried Piranhas on A23, did not hold pressure, burped, bead stretched. So obviously bad choice of tires !? but I used Pythons and Piranhas on MTB without slightest problem.
    My bike came with wire beaded tires (Clement PDX, 33mm). I put them on A23 wheels tubeless, needed compressor to pop the bead in but nothing unusual.
    38R, 32F (I am 190 lbs) and did 45 miles on easy fast singletrack with a lot of roots, milion turns on different surfaces. I hit the rim many times, skidded sideways in turns - basically abused the tires. Spent 4 hrs on the bike, the pressure at the end WAS IDENTICAL to the starting pressure, no sealant showed on tires, just a great ride.
    Maybe till we get good quality tubeless ready 33mm + tires this wire bead tubeless is worth trying?

  100. #100
    mtbr member
    Reputation: limba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    2,939
    Yeah but what is the benefit? You didn't lose any air, so what? You're using a heavier tire and a high pressure. Do you feel a difference like the other said between 32 with a tube or 32 tubeless?
    It's a better feel?

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