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  1. #51
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    I picked up a pair of Shimano Ultegra Tubeless ready wheels this year and mounted them with Hutchinson Piranha that I used all last year. Have some issues sealing up but once they did have been perfect. Four races so far this year with 3 being very rough and a bunch of training rides. I am no gracefully racer at 175# as I power over and through stuff and the setup has worked so far. I have been setting the rear at 40 psi and the front at 36'ish. I know that is not low psi but I get plenty of expansion of the tires when I am on the bike.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hand/of/Midas View Post
    I was serious, i do alot of rides that are 150-200 miles (up to 260 miles so far) long on either Road and/or Gravel. I normally run 35c tires around 70-90 psi depending on the roads.

    Make more sense now?
    I had a pretty good idea that was what you were doing, it still doesn't answer the question as to why you'd want to run pressures that high with tires that wide, tubeless no less. I'm just guessing (admittedly) but I'd guess that you passed the point of reduced rolling resistance somewhere around 60-65psi and ventured deep into the realm of decreased shock absorptions/decreased comfort once you passed 70-75psi.

    Having said that, I've temporarily inflated my Hutchinson cross tires up to 80 psi just to get the bead to fully seat, didn't blow 'em off the rims. So, I suppose you could ride them that firm, not that I'd want to.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny K View Post
    First race on Arches with Mud2s: excellent.

    32psi front and 35 rear...I feel like I can go a good bit lower. I run 20 psi front and 23 rear in my mtb tires. Anyone else got a comparo between their cx and mtb tubeless pressures?
    What is your weight? I just set up crests tubeless with mud 2s and I am trying to figure out pressure before my race sunday.

    Thanks!
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  4. #54
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    Shimano Ultegra wheels with bontrager cxo tires. No issues and no rim strips needed with those wheels just swap the valve.

  5. #55
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    Only been a few weeks on mine, but loving the ride quality and feel

    Mavic Ksyrium SL wheels, Hutchinson Bulldog tires, Stans No Tubes kit.

  6. #56
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    Oh, and I have some Mavic CXP 33s that I was hoping to set up with some road slicks on one of my cx bikes, something like some 28 mm Continental Four Seasons.

    Anyone know if I'd be able to go tubeless on this rim/tire combo?

    If not, since this is my backup cx bike, I might just add some tire strips to get a bit more protection when riding on gravel/off road. I'm going to be using this bike for both around town, winter road riding, and hitting some trails.

    thanks.

  7. #57
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    setup an old Mud 2 (2005 vintage) on a Mavic open pro over the weekend -- Gorilla tape and closed cell weather stripping. The side wall was VERY porous could not get it to hold until I had 2 scoops of sealant(WSS) in and I'd shake it lay it flat and pump air in to force the sealant into the holes. Had to do several rounds of that then I rode it around the yard. When I brought it in I squeezed the side wall and was able to get it to burp. So I went back deflated it and checked to see if it was seated (didn't look like it) so I reseated it by taking it up to 55# then could not get it to burp by hand. rode some easy single track with no burping. Checked it again and could not get it to burp by hand at 37#. may give it a shot at this weekend's race. WIll try and get a rear set up the next couple of days.

  8. #58
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    Cx tubless setup

    Iam runnung Michelin mud 2 on stans crest rims tubless with hope pro 2 hubs on my crux disk ,can run them at 26 to 28 lbs. in dirt no problem and 50 lbs. on road or hard pack.

  9. #59
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    Crossmax 29er/Hutchinson Piranha problem

    The set up held air great but now I can't get the tires off. They went on easy enough but I cant get a tire lever under the bead at all. Any suggestions? Could it be a vacuum problem from letting the air out? I've unscrewed the valve to try to even the pressure on the inside and outside of the tire but it didn't help. I've only got one set of wheels and I need to swap these back to MTB tires asap. Help!

  10. #60
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    Anyone know if dt Swiss rims are tubeless able? I have a pair of 1700 CX wheels and want to try but figured I'd ask first to see if it is worth the attempt.

  11. #61
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    Looks like you guys have had some pretty good success with this. I just picked up a Kona Jake and will look at doing the gorilla tubeless on the stock wheels when I get a chance. Just was looking around and found out that Vittoria is coming out with a TNT version of the Cross XG Pro (clincher) this year. I am going to talk to my LBS about those as I love GEAX tires and have always had luck with them.

  12. #62
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    So I emailed Vittoria about the new Cross XG Pro TNT and actually got a response within a couple hours. Guy said that they are slated for March 2012 release and first shipments to the US are supposed to land in mid April. They will be $62/ea and run the standard TNT setup that is found in the GEAX TNT tires, which means they will suffer from the mounting issues found with BST bead style rims (Stan's, Sun Ringle, etc.). If the folding seal up as well as the GEAX folding then I will definitely go with those but seeing as I am looking at building a secondary set of wheels (Velocity A23, Circus Monkey HRW2 hubs and DT Swiss Comp spokes) I should not have a problem with them. I love Stan's rims though so it will come down to what my budget is at the time.

  13. #63
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    Soon as I get my Vittoria Cross XG Pros I am going to give this a shot of the weekend. Only thing is where do you guys find 20" presta valve tubes or does 26" work well enough? Was going to try ghetto tubeless this time instead of Gorilla Tape tubeless but may have to fall back to the faithful Gorilla Tape method.

  14. #64
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    Clement X'Plor MSO setup tubeless on Alpha 340 rims? Anyone tried it? 60 or 120 tpi?

    I wanted to revive this thread a little bit now that cross season is ramping up hear in NorCal. I've been having great luck flogging my Hutchinson Bulldog 34c on Stan's Alpha 340 rims setup tubeless in the local SF cross series the last few weeks, but Bulldogs are hard to find, and I want to get fatter, like 40c, and the new Clements look cool (I ride an old Air9 so width is not a concern for clearing the frame). Anyone tried it? What's the rule of thumb again of 60tpi vs 120 tpi thread walls? I know 120 take a bit more time to seal, but one burps easier than the other? Seems to me the stiffer 60tpi would be more prone to burping, but I can't recall. I like the 60tpi because they're cheaper! Any other rec's on 40c'ish tires? I had a pair of folding IRC Mythos 42c 4 years ago that worked GREAT on Arch rims set up tubeless, but I can't those tires anymore.
    thx
    Patrick

  15. #65
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    I am kind of curious about the Vittoria Cross XG TNT tires.

  16. #66
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    Does anyone have the schwalbe cx pro pumped up tubeless? 50tpi seams low....

  17. #67
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    I used 2 26 inch by 25mm rubber rimstrips on each rim. I patched up the hole where the valve stem goes through. The overlapping part of the strip has to be trimmed a little so that you don't get any leakage around that site. I used some threaded valves from an old tube. I mounted Maxxis raze on DT swiss 1850 wheels. So far so good as far as sealing and rolling. I flatted last Tuesday but it was a puncture that tore a hold in the tire. That flat would have happened to any tire. It was too big to seal with the Stans but I patched it up and it is now rolling again.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncreative View Post
    does anyone else use tubular glue + stans on clincher rims? I've seen this mentioned a few times and am curious how well this works.
    Bump

  19. #69
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    glad this thread is revived....

    slightly off topic, but can anyone comment on the seals used in the Stan's 340 wheelset hubs? I think they are the 3.30 model hubs... love stan's rims for mtb but haven't tried their hubs and want a bomber seal setup for a new cx wheelset. thanks!

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3daywheelie View Post
    I wanted to revive this thread a little bit now that cross season is ramping up hear in NorCal. I've been having great luck flogging my Hutchinson Bulldog 34c on Stan's Alpha 340 rims setup tubeless in the local SF cross series the last few weeks, but Bulldogs are hard to find, and I want to get fatter, like 40c, and the new Clements look cool (I ride an old Air9 so width is not a concern for clearing the frame). Anyone tried it? What's the rule of thumb again of 60tpi vs 120 tpi thread walls? I know 120 take a bit more time to seal, but one burps easier than the other? Seems to me the stiffer 60tpi would be more prone to burping, but I can't recall. I like the 60tpi because they're cheaper! Any other rec's on 40c'ish tires? I had a pair of folding IRC Mythos 42c 4 years ago that worked GREAT on Arch rims set up tubeless, but I can't those tires anymore.
    thx
    Patrick
    I just set up 120 tpi X'plor MSO on Ultegra tubeless wheels. Pretty loose fit. Needed to let them sit inflated with tubes overnight to get bead to seat. Very porous sidewalls, but sealed up ok.

    On an interesting note - I got a "bad" bottle of Stan's. The sidewalls initially refused to seal, even after I put way too much Stan's in them. Tried adding glitter, no dice. Finally noticed that my brand new bottle of Stan's looked really watery compared to normal. Got a different bottle from the local shop and they sealed right up. Weird.

    Rode Tsali on them yesterday and they were awesome. No word yet on reliability, but I slammed them around pretty good and felt the rim hit a couple times, but no burping or other issues. 40/45 psi, 150lbs.

    As far as what doesn't work - Was running Kenda Happy Mediums before, and developed the Stan's / non-tubeless tire de-lamination after about three weeks. They were great tires as well, but the MSO's are really awesome.
    Yeah, it's strange. But oh well.

  21. #71
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    ^did you shake the crap out of the bottle you suspected as being bad? Possible that bottle had sat around for a while before you purchased it.
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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by A1an View Post
    ^did you shake the crap out of the bottle you suspected as being bad? Possible that bottle had sat around for a while before you purchased it.
    Yup. Even after all the shaking it looked more like skim milk than anything else. Oh well. One of those things.
    Yeah, it's strange. But oh well.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny K View Post
    First race on Arches with Mud2s: excellent.

    32psi front and 35 rear...I feel like I can go a good bit lower. I run 20 psi front and 23 rear in my mtb tires. Anyone else got a comparo between their cx and mtb tubeless pressures?
    It is about a year since you posted this (and I'm hoping you are still around)...any updates on this setup? Issues? Changes?

    The more I research wheel builds for my weight and proposed singletrack usage the more it points me back to the Arch EX. Thought about going with a Crest or IronCross but I'm right in the 190-200 range and I'm not sure those could handle my not-so-smooth riding style through our somewhat rooty trails.
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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broussard View Post
    Yup. Even after all the shaking it looked more like skim milk than anything else. Oh well. One of those things.
    I had the same thing happen about 2 years ago. Bought a bottle....shook the crap out of it and noticed it looked thin ....and it would not seal a Schwable tire.
    Called Stan's and they sent me a new bottle right out. It was thicker ( like normal) and sealed the tire first try.

  25. #75
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    Just built up some Velocity A23s, and set up Clement PDXs on there. Velocity tape, Orange Seal (my favorite sealant,) in back. Ran out and had to use Satan's up front. Seating beads took a bit. In retrospect, I'd have used an extra layer of tape.
    Taking them on a short trail ride shakedown tomorrow. Should be a good test of the wheels and tubeless set up.

    Los
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  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by sslos View Post
    Just built up some Velocity A23s, and set up Clement PDXs on there. Velocity tape, Orange Seal (my favorite sealant,) in back. Ran out and had to use Satan's up front. Seating beads took a bit. In retrospect, I'd have used an extra layer of tape.
    Taking them on a short trail ride shakedown tomorrow. Should be a good test of the wheels and tubeless set up.

    Los
    Have the same rims and tires - used 2 layers gorilla tape. Had to use the compressor to get them to seal. (I have never had luck with just a tire pump on any tire I have set up) Rode this combo last weekend at Copper Harbor -- some roots and rocks most of trail we rode was hardpacked dirt. Had no problems. Then the next day I rode the Michigan Tech Trails, Rode for about an hour trails were much rockier and rootier -- finally burped the rear on a large rock near the end of the ride. Ran 40 front an rear. I am 250 geared up. Felt the rims hit ALOT at Michigan Tech was very nervous.

  27. #77
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    Well, I'm about 60 lbs. south of you and the trails here are not rocky and rooty, but I was able to run about 35psi front and rear with no burps. The biggest problem was the gravel that the tires threw up at me!
    No offense, but perhaps a bit higher psi may be required at your weight with this set up. At my weight, 35 did feel pretty soft, and I can imagine that I'd bottom them out if I were someplace with lots of rocks and roots.
    As to the set up, I had to do some wheel adjustments on the front, and so just to see how it'd do, I pulled the tire, and added a second layer of Velocity tape. Aired up easily with my floor pump with the core removed.
    Tires have held air well, and it's awfully nice to pull out a couple of goatheads and not worry about it!

    Los
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  28. #78
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    Dialing in the optimal pressure

    Hi All -- I'd really appreciate some advice on dialing in tire pressure. I'm running Stans Alpha 340s with Michelin Muds at 160# body weight and at 35psi. 1-2x per race, the rear tire gets really squirrely on minor g-outs and bumpy corners. It feels like the sidewall is about to fold over which I've never felt on my MTB and is pretty disconcerting. Is this normal for a CX tubelss setup, or do I need to keep ratcheting up the pressure to make it stop? It's never burped or caused a wreck but it seems like this is getting close to the 40psi pressure limit and at that point I'm not sure there's much benefit to running tubeless. I'm also wondering if maybe the 340s are too narrow for their intended purpose(?).

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrIndy View Post
    Hi All -- I'd really appreciate some advice on dialing in tire pressure. I'm running Stans Alpha 340s with Michelin Muds at 160# body weight and at 35psi. 1-2x per race, the rear tire gets really squirrely on minor g-outs and bumpy corners. It feels like the sidewall is about to fold over which I've never felt on my MTB and is pretty disconcerting. Is this normal for a CX tubelss setup, or do I need to keep ratcheting up the pressure to make it stop? It's never burped or caused a wreck but it seems like this is getting close to the 40psi pressure limit and at that point I'm not sure there's much benefit to running tubeless. I'm also wondering if maybe the 340s are too narrow for their intended purpose(?).
    I run my tubeless pressure on the higher side of what most people would consider the "benefit" of a tubeless setup. 40R feels good to me and I weigh 145. I notice that running a tire tubeless at the same pressure as a tube it feels much different and thus I can tolerate some higher pressures. 40 with a tube feels way stiffer than 40 tubeless. The tire is just more supple at the same pressure without a tube IME. That has just been my experience. Play around with tire pressures and see what feels good. Let us know what works.

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by sslos View Post
    Well, I'm about 60 lbs. south of you and the trails here are not rocky and rooty, but I was able to run about 35psi front and rear with no burps. The biggest problem was the gravel that the tires threw up at me!
    No offense, but perhaps a bit higher psi may be required at your weight with this set up. At my weight, 35 did feel pretty soft, and I can imagine that I'd bottom them out if I were someplace with lots of rocks and roots.
    As to the set up, I had to do some wheel adjustments on the front, and so just to see how it'd do, I pulled the tire, and added a second layer of Velocity tape. Aired up easily with my floor pump with the core removed.
    Tires have held air well, and it's awfully nice to pull out a couple of goatheads and not worry about it!
    Los
    Don't worry about offending me 250 geared up is not a bad weight When you are 6'6" (although I was at least 10 lbs lighter this summer)

    Yeah I'm gonna try the 45 r and 40 front next. This is the same pressures I ran tubed on my muds for the first race this year. Right now I'm trying to decide if I want to run my Gravel tires tubeless(Panarcer Tservs) have a race next weekend anybody got any history on those tires tubeless?

  31. #81
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    Anyone tried tubeless on deep dish chinese clinchers yet?

    I've had great luck on every rim I've tried; Bontrager, several sets of Stan's, my ENVE XCs and now I want to try a set of 38mm or 50mm carbon rims.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by clydeone View Post
    Right now I'm trying to decide if I want to run my Gravel tires tubeless(Panarcer Tservs) have a race next weekend anybody got any history on those tires tubeless?
    I've run panaracer paselas tubeless on all kinds of gravel, jeep trail, fire road etc and they work great for me.

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deeps Elgnis View Post
    I've run panaracer paselas tubeless on all kinds of gravel, jeep trail, fire road etc and they work great for me.
    I was going to try and set them up - have to mix up more sealant though

  34. #84
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    I set up some A23's with a layer of gorilla tape, Stan's CC 29er rimstrips, and sealant successfully with a Ritchey WCS shield on the front and a Kenda slant 6 in the rear. Had to use a compressor. No issues thus far.
    I'm also curious about the chinese carbon clinchers being run tubeless. Being a narrower rim I'm thinking it might not be the best idea.

  35. #85
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    I just ordered some Velocity A23s and will be looking to set them up tubeless... has anyone tried the tubeless kit that Velocity makes? I was thinking of giving that a shot first...
    "I have one speed. I have one gear: Go." -- Charlie Sheen

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ender. View Post
    I just ordered some Velocity A23s and will be looking to set them up tubeless... has anyone tried the tubeless kit that Velocity makes? I was thinking of giving that a shot first...
    Me.
    Double wrap the rims (2 layers of tape,) and depending on your tire choice, soap the beads. I should have done both from the onset with my PDXs. Consequently, they took a little bit to get the bead to pop into place with a compressor.
    After a bit of wheel work, I added a second layer of tape to the front, and it aired right up with my soon-to-be-dead, asthmatic floor pump.
    The valves are really nicely done, great fit into the rim well, and the removable core is well made.

    Los
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  37. #87
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    Update: Tires held well. Raced them on a very tough course with rough, dry sections, damp grass, and lots, LOTS of off camber sections! 32.5psi front, 34.5 rear, no burps or wallowing. Love these tires, love the fact that I picked up 5 goatheads the day before and had no worries. Tubeless rocks!

    Los
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  38. #88
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    Are you guys running the new tubless A23's or the older ones?

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfsugar View Post
    Are you guys running the new tubless A23's or the older ones?
    New has distinct ledges for the bead

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    I'm running the older A23's

  41. #91
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    Newer, made in Flor'da for me.

    Los
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  42. #92
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    I recently setup a pair of clement PDXs on a stans crest (front) and a 355 (rear) on my crux expert disc. So far I've ridden them a number of times on a cx course, in a fairly technical cx race, and on singletrack mtb trails without any problems. I weigh around 185 and have been running closer to 40 psi. So far it has been a great experience. As others have mentioned, 40psi tubeless feels a lot lower than 40psi with tubes, and grip with the same tires seems improved.

    Everyone warned me that tubeless was a no-no for cross, but I'm glad I tried it for myself. Many probably don't want to believe tubeless is a valid replacement for their pain in the @ss tubulars that are superior by a seemingly decreasing margin. Component choices (rims, tires) seem to make a bigger difference as to whether tubeless will work consistently, although I'll be able to say that more confidently after I have an entire season on them under my belt.

  43. #93
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    Finally got the panaracer tservs setup last night. They were not the easiest to get to seat. Couldn't get them to hold air without sealant very porous sidewall. I used a scoop and a half of Wade's secret sauce did a few shake and lay on side. They had only lost a few pounds so I aired em up and rode to work on them this morning. Ran 45 f /50 rear. The back seemed soften by the time I got into work. I'll check them in a while. Would not suprise me that they lost air as porous as the sidewall was. Other wise it appears they will work for this weekend's gravel race.

  44. #94
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    I set up some Specialized Captain CX Pros on a Stans Arch EX and a WTB Speeddisc. They seemed to be fine, and lost air overnight. I aired up in the morning and threw the wheels in my trunk. 5 min later the tire blew off the Stans rim. The other one was fine. Weird. I would have expected the other way around. Mind you the beads were pretty loose on both rims. Anyway, I resorted to a tube for the Stans rim. The front is fine still.

  45. #95
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    Tservs worked fine today. Raced the Lowell 50 (50 mile gravel race near Grand Rapids, MI) today had zero problems. Biggest challenge was some nasty potholes I could not avoid. zero burps.

  46. #96
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    My bike is not set up for racing. In the last week I did mount up my Schwalbe Marathon Mondial tires tubeless on a set of Stans ArchEX rims. So far have a few rides on them including a 46 mile ride yesterday. Running about 28/30psi (F/R) and that seems to be working well. I find the rolling resistance on the road is less and the grip in the dirt is better. I didn't use enough sealant the first time around so had to pump in another ounce to finish up sealing them. I like the look and feel of the 700x40 tires on the 24mm wide rim, I had them on a 19mm wide rim originally and they looked a little pinched.
    Last edited by 4Crawler; 10-28-2012 at 10:27 AM.

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by clydeone View Post
    Don't worry about offending me 250 geared up is not a bad weight When you are 6'6" (although I was at least 10 lbs lighter this summer)

    Yeah I'm gonna try the 45 r and 40 front next. This is the same pressures I ran tubed on my muds for the first race this year. Right now I'm trying to decide if I want to run my Gravel tires tubeless(Panarcer Tservs) have a race next weekend anybody got any history on those tires tubeless?
    Ran the PDXs today at 40 f 45 r -- burped the front on an awkward uphill dismount on lap 3 of 7. Finished the race but didn't burp again wound up with 20 pounds in the front. It was strange. I was being very careful. Lost 3-4 places after that.

    Also I blew a Tire off a rim today. First time I have ever done that. luckily I was outside I was remounting my Tservs after the race for tomorrow's commute. I went ahead and remounted the tire more carefully this time. I'll see if it holds.

  48. #98
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    Additional info -- after burping my last 2 races -- I finally was able to complete one without a burp. In a race 3 weeks ago I burped the front so last week I added a 3rd layer of gorilla tape to the front AND I burped the rear. This was a race in Kalamazoo and i burped when I slid through an off camber up hill turn. So I added a 3rd layer to the rear this week nd ran 45 f / 50 r and was able to finish. This race was a decent test with a few tight grass corners that I was generally sliding through a bit. But not a lot of off camber. I am running Clement PDXs on A23s. One more race for me this year. A generally muddy affair in Holland, Michigan probably won't be a great test for burping and I will likely drop the pressure by 5# front and rear.

  49. #99
    BVK
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    Feb 2005
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    Did anybody try tubeless mounting of tires with WIRE bead?
    A little background:
    I am using tubeless (tubeless ready, non tubeless, you name it) on MTB for many years and I have never DNF-ed because of tires.
    I got a CX bike and was surprised reading about the terrible reliability of tubeless set-ups. So I tried Piranhas on A23, did not hold pressure, burped, bead stretched. So obviously bad choice of tires !? but I used Pythons and Piranhas on MTB without slightest problem.
    My bike came with wire beaded tires (Clement PDX, 33mm). I put them on A23 wheels tubeless, needed compressor to pop the bead in but nothing unusual.
    38R, 32F (I am 190 lbs) and did 45 miles on easy fast singletrack with a lot of roots, milion turns on different surfaces. I hit the rim many times, skidded sideways in turns - basically abused the tires. Spent 4 hrs on the bike, the pressure at the end WAS IDENTICAL to the starting pressure, no sealant showed on tires, just a great ride.
    Maybe till we get good quality tubeless ready 33mm + tires this wire bead tubeless is worth trying?

  50. #100
    mtbr member
    Reputation: limba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    2,939
    Yeah but what is the benefit? You didn't lose any air, so what? You're using a heavier tire and a high pressure. Do you feel a difference like the other said between 32 with a tube or 32 tubeless?
    It's a better feel?

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