Results 1 to 37 of 37
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    77

    Cross frames with 50mm + rear clearance?

    Besides custom frames, any stock frames with 50mm of clearance? Want something with a couple mm's clearance for 700x45's for touring on rougher dirt roads.

    Kona's 2014 Rove Ti looks good other than the price.

    Kona Offers Sneak Peek of 2014 Titanium Rove - Bike Rumor

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,500
    the current steel Rove!
    but I've picked it up and it's a bit of a tank.
    FWIW I have a set of 47mm continental city contacts in my salsa casseroll, and fit 28x2" schwalbe fat franks in there as well.
    minimal clearance but there you go.
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    219
    Cross check?

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: junior1210's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,001
    Singular has a couple of frames, or for big money, Co-motion.
    The ridiculousness of cycling clothes increase exponentially in relation to the distance from your bicycle.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    77
    Thanks for the suggestions.

    The Rove says only 40mm clearance, wonder if the 2014's will have more like the Ti Rove? Cross-check doesn't have disk brakes which is a deal breaker for me, but the Singular Peregrine could be a option.

    The scenario i'm worried about is being on a remote dirt road touring with a 700x45c tire, hitting a bump or bending a rim (whatever scenario you were not expecting on a remote tour) and not having enough room for a out of true wheel. Guess the same could be true in the middle of something like the Dirty Kanza as well.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: junior1210's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,001
    Don't forget about Surly Ogre, Salsa Fargo, and I believe Charge makes 1 or 2 as well.
    The ridiculousness of cycling clothes increase exponentially in relation to the distance from your bicycle.

  7. #7
    jrm
    jrm is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jrm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    10,624
    Theres also the Black Mountain Monstercross and the Salsa Vaya. ive seen pics of people running as large as 1.8" tires on both.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    571
    50+ is dropbar 29er territory. Not too many CX frames will clear that. What are you trying to do with it?

    Older Specialized Tricrosses, Redline Conquests and Lemonds will clear 38+. Anything else is a lot to ask from a manufacturer when they already make a 29" hardtail.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by LetsGoOutside View Post
    50+ is dropbar 29er territory. Not too many CX frames will clear that. What are you trying to do with it?
    Quote Originally Posted by GrooveNinja View Post
    The scenario i'm worried about is being on a remote dirt road touring with a 700x45c tire, hitting a bump or bending a rim (whatever scenario you were not expecting on a remote tour) and not having enough room for a out of true wheel. Guess the same could be true in the middle of something like the Dirty Kanza as well.
    Looked at the mt. bike, but really I'm wanting something closer to a road/cross bike setup and riding position and I do use it for cross in the winter. I think more and more people, especially in the mid-west, are looking for a cross bike in the winter they can use on dirt road rides/races in the summer. Also, from experience, I've used my cross bike on Dirty Kanza and not been able to get the wheel true enough to finish after nailing a bump do to limited clearance. As mentioned in the original post, Kona will have a 50mm clearance frame in 2014, just was looking for other options I might have missed.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: joeinchi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    470
    Wouldn't 29er rims be a better option? Extra clearance works for an out of true wheel but simply using another 700c rim on a wider frame doesn't eliminate the weak link in your setup--a road rim.

    Unless you have unusual BB height requirements or a certain head tube/seat tube angle combination not available in the recommended frames, I guess the only acceptable option is the one you've already selected.

    Perhaps I'm missing something? Are you dead set on a 130mm rear drop out? Is there specific brand/model of tire you intend to use? What HTA/STA combo are looking for? Do you have a preferred BB drop?

    Or did you simply want something marketed as a "cyclocross" bike/frame?
    Joe
    Chicago, IL

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    77
    700c/29 wheels are almost interchangeable and 135mm is fine as well, that's not the issue. It is frame geometry.

    29'er frames geom is built for suspension forks and have high front ends. Even most of the rigid forks are built to work interchangeably with 80-100mm suspension forks. This is what Salsa's Fargo was built for. If you don't need suspension, sure its possible to ride a 29'er with a cross fork on dirt roads or cross, however the geometry is quite out of whack. If you stick a cross fork without the extra head tube height, you end up with 75-76 degree seat tube angles and 73degree heat tube angles. Drop bars on a 29'er leaves a lot to be desired from the cross/dirt road side of things. I've tried both options.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: joeinchi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    470
    Ah, yes. That's absolutely correct and trying to estimate fork length for HT bike is, at best, unnecessary when other options exist.

    As mentioned, the Surly Cross-Check with 132.5mm drop outs may be your best bet. They specify room for 45mm tires and feature road geo. Perhaps, buy the frame/fork and build to your own spec?
    Joe
    Chicago, IL

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    219
    Carrying a spoke wrench and getting a little practice in truing would solve your fear.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeveless View Post
    Carrying a spoke wrench and getting a little practice in truing would solve your fear.
    25 years of wheel building and repairs has taught me that sometimes severely bent rims can not be resolved simply by spoke tension. You can easily bend a rim beyond what spoke tension will correct where the spoke will snap or pull through the rim. I've had this happen, of course not close to home, and it was several hours of walking.

    700x45 tires are getting more and more common for dirt road riding. Dirty Kanza recommends 700x44 minimum. Ruined tires and taco-ed wheels are not that uncommon. 3mm clearance on each side is also not crazy.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by GrooveNinja View Post
    25 years of wheel building and repairs has taught me that sometimes severely bent rims can not be resolved simply by spoke tension. You can easily bend a rim beyond what spoke tension will correct where the spoke will snap or pull through the rim. I've had this happen, of course not close to home, and it was several hours of walking.

    700x45 tires are getting more and more common for dirt road riding. Dirty Kanza recommends 700x44 minimum. Ruined tires and taco-ed wheels are not that uncommon. 3mm clearance on each side is also not crazy.
    I agree that more clearance is better. Wish my frame had more clearance for larger than 40c. I really hope you have some luck in your search. With that said, I just think that if a wheel is so out of true that spoke tension can't fix it, 3mm of clearance on each side isn't likely to be enough.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    484
    Origin8 CX700 is supposed to fit 2.1" tires, I have loads of clearance on mine with 40mm tires:



    - http://www.jbimporters.com/web/links/2012%20Frames.html

    I have a triple MTB crankset on it (external bearing), 68mm shell but I have removed all spacers on the drive side and cranks still clear the chain stays by a fair amount. The mfg. recommends an MTB crank, but I think a road crank might just fit. I get a 45mm chain line with the current crank.
    Last edited by 4Crawler; 04-11-2013 at 11:59 PM.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    244
    The problem is not the wheels (many cx disc bikes can take mtb wheels already), but the bb clearance for fat rubber. Cross bikes are designed to use road components, which have 68mm or equivalent bbs with low Q (pedal-to-pedal) values. MTBs have 73mm bbs to clear the fat tires and give you good chainline. The Fargo is a frame that is intended to be built up with mountain groups but put you over drop bars. Vassago Fisticuff also. Most of these bikes we're talking about are heavy with steel frames, but the Fargo can be had with a ti frame.

    There are many geometry considerations so you should stick with a frame designed for that purpose, and not adapt a mountain frame, which typically has very long top tubes and will not let you get comfortable with a drop bar.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vaultbrad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    881

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    244
    Nice example: how long is the wait for those things? 4 years?

    Edit: just checked they're webpage. 7 months. not so bad

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vaultbrad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    881

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vaultbrad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    881
    I think I like the looks of the soulcraft better even though it wont take as big a tire.

  22. #22
    Trail Junkie
    Reputation: dubdryver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,160
    I know this doesn't classify as a "big tire" CX bike (45c+) but I think one way they could get around this is to widen the BB. I was looking at how the new Volagi Viaje was made. It has the BB386 which is wide like mountain BB using a press-fit, but will mount the 110/74 mountain road/crankset that accepts road compact rings (50/34), and since the width is wider, you'll have the chainring clearance as well. The only difference being a 30mm vs 24mm spindle which they make adapters and different BBs for.

    Now I know this doesn't address the OP's original question, but it does address the means of if a frame was build, how it could be done.
    Last edited by dubdryver; 04-23-2013 at 07:48 AM.
    Ibis Ripley LS
    Intense Spider 29 C
    Cervelo S2
    Trek Boone 5 Disc
    Spech Tricross Expert
    Raleigh RX 1.0

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,662
    Quote Originally Posted by GrooveNinja View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions.

    The scenario i'm worried about is being on a remote dirt road touring with a 700x45c tire, hitting a bump or bending a rim (whatever scenario you were not expecting on a remote tour) and not having enough room for a out of true wheel. Guess the same could be true in the middle of something like the Dirty Kanza as well.
    In this scenario I would have a spoke wrench in my tool bag. How often does a wheel truly get tacoed backroad touring?
    Last edited by Saddle Up; 04-23-2013 at 09:07 AM.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,662
    The 5 mm difference between a 68mm road bb and a 73mm mtb bb shell is already handled with spacers, no need to increase the size of the bb shell. When I installed my Deore crankset on my LHT with 68mm bb shell a spacer is added to effectively give the same width as a 73mm mtb.

  25. #25
    Trail Junkie
    Reputation: dubdryver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,160
    This is correct, but from a tire clearance perspective, the 73mm wide BB will give you slightly more tire clearance because the chainstays can be welded further apart. This is a separate issue from chainring clearance which is more of a design issue in regards to chainline due to tolerances becoming smaller.
    Ibis Ripley LS
    Intense Spider 29 C
    Cervelo S2
    Trek Boone 5 Disc
    Spech Tricross Expert
    Raleigh RX 1.0

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,662
    Ahh yes, light bulb goes on.

  27. #27
    Trail Junkie
    Reputation: dubdryver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,160
    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    Ahh yes, light bulb goes on.
    This is kind of the reason why there are so many BB standards now-a-days, most of them particular to MTB, but some have made their way to road and CX. Pretty good write up here that explains the different standards, why they came about, and how different standards addressed the shortcomings of others.
    Bottom Bracket Types - Your Complete Guide To Threaded, BB30, BB90, BB95, BB386 EVO, BBright, PF86 And PF92 - BikeRadar

    To me, based on the information that I know about BBs, rear spacing width, and chainline..there are only a couple real solutions to increase your tire width capacity is to widen the BB along with changing the spacing to 135mm, and change the chainstay profile whether it be flatten it vertically or change it to a plate-style like Lynskey does on their pro series MTB and CX frames..or of course increase the chainstay length which changes the handling and ride a bit.

    My Pro29SL has the plate style with 73mm BB and I can fit ~2.5" tire on a 16.9" chainstay. It's the only way such a tire would fit.
    Ibis Ripley LS
    Intense Spider 29 C
    Cervelo S2
    Trek Boone 5 Disc
    Spech Tricross Expert
    Raleigh RX 1.0

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    149
    Any recent updates to this thread?

  29. #29
    Trail Junkie
    Reputation: dubdryver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,160
    I know the Origin8 CX700 does along with the Van Dessel WTF.
    I have seen both with my own two eyes, and currently have that
    little voice in my head to get the Van Dessel...a good friend of mine
    rides one and logs tons of offroad miles on it, and the Frame/Fork
    isn't too pricey!
    Ibis Ripley LS
    Intense Spider 29 C
    Cervelo S2
    Trek Boone 5 Disc
    Spech Tricross Expert
    Raleigh RX 1.0

  30. #30
    jrm
    jrm is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jrm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    10,624
    Yeah that WTF is a nice looking set up

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    184
    If you want maximum tyre size and good BB stiffness, then BB92 is the way to go - it provides wider chainstay stance, less aggressive bends all contributing to bigger clearances and less flexing.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    4,522
    I have a Felt F65x. 86.5mm BB shell, plenty of stiffness under my 240lb self. I'm running 35mm tires and there's at least 10mm on each side of the tire front and rear so I imagine you could put a tire that is 5mm wider on each side.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    126
    I built the WTF up with 29x2.1 inch tires..the biggest tire I have been able to get on a Cross Check so far is a 700x40c though I have seen others get bigger tires on one...On the WTF I still have clearance in the back for a little bigger tire than what is on it right now...up front it looks like I am at the limit...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Cross frames with 50mm + rear clearance?-wtf7.jpg  

    Cross frames with 50mm + rear clearance?-wtf3.jpg  


  34. #34
    jrm
    jrm is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jrm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    10,624
    can you give us a breakdown of the build and how much it weighs? TIA

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    126
    I built it up with Sram Rival 2x10 stuff...TRP Mechanical Disc Brakes..Mavic Cross One Wheels...figured for gravel they should work fine..FSA Gossaimer Cross Crank..11x32 Cassette..Vee Rubber 29x2.1 VeeRace Tires..FSA SLK Seat Post, FSA Handlebar..Sella Italia SL Saddle..when we weighed it at the shop it was 25.1 pounds...I am pretty sure if you go with lighter stuff you can get one of these pretty light...weight was really not a concern for me when I built it up...oh and a Shimano Pro Koyark(SP) stem, Hope Stem Spacers and Thompson Stem Cap and FSA seat post collar..Sram Chain and Shimano SPD Pedals(Mid level stuff like 540s)

  36. #36
    jrm
    jrm is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jrm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    10,624
    Thanks TT. your build is basically the same build im working with a swobo crosby.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    126
    Got a good ride in today..nice smooth frame with no flex..very comfortable and stable...average speed was pretty decent considering the big tires and added weight...and getting over the flu so I was very pleased with the it....much prefer the ride of this and feel vs my Cross Check

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-26-2013, 11:23 AM
  2. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 01-27-2013, 06:29 PM
  3. 50t clearance on Cross Check?
    By allroy71 in forum Surly
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-27-2012, 05:32 PM
  4. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-10-2012, 01:41 PM
  5. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-06-2011, 01:04 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •