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  1. #201
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    No luck on my end.
    Jenny said she's sending it, but I have no tracking number or proof of this event.
    I can't help but wonder if the axle shot she sent you is just a stock TA photo- perhaps not updated to this fork.

    If it shows up and only the threaded area of the shaft is shorter, well that's less than I hoped for but is surmountable.

    My local hardware store had a nut w/ the correct diameter, just too wide.
    Even in my rickety way, it wouldn't take much to reduce the outside diameter of is, then have it snug up inside the fork's collar.

    And if you are a machinist type person, it would take even less to make one from aluminum.
    If I find a solution- you'll know.
    The correct "nut" for the axle would only be 2mm wider. Perhaps it doesn't show up in photos.
    (typed w/ the belief that you are correct, but w/ the hope that you are wrong)
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  2. #202
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    The F axle isn't fixed- but it'll do on smooth pave for now.
    My rear chain tensioner (homebrewed) isn't working so I'm using a hacked up R der.
    The R axle isn't a TA yet, but QR sure did me well for several decades.

    But- I rode the bike today.
    I only rode it to the Post Office (to see if parts for this bike arrived- they didn't) w/ running shoes atop the clipless pedals.
    And- it was great. It was exciting. I love a new bike.

    Then things went a bit south.
    I was trying to position the TRP Hylex brakes on the Salsa Woodchipper bars.
    I'm not ham fisted but I snapped the band that secures the brake lever to the bar. I was trying positions fo the levers on these oddball bars- I wasn't snugging them up much. And it snapped.
    Perhaps it was me, perhaps a weak part. Perhaps a combo.
    So now, even w/ parts stolen from other bikes- the MB is back on the hook waiting for parts.
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  3. #203
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    So JCB did you remedy rear wheel alignment problem or just live with it ?

    Curious

    Anyone else with one of these frames got wheel alignment isses similar to JCB ?

    P.S. Thread needs moar pics please


    Fat Biker

  4. #204
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    I'll know more after the rear TA drop outs show up (if they do!) and I get some miles on them.
    I'm looking to see if the drop outs seat themselves a bit more snugly, allowing the wheel to find it's real position. Then I'll judge again.
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  5. #205
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    thanks for all the updates. i'm following with interest. keep it coming.

    BTW you have both a Moots and a Black Sheep!? i have two feelings about that...

    1. Your my hero
    2. I hate you
    Rigid SS 29er
    Fat Lefty
    SS MonsterCross
    SS cyclocross
    all steel

    "Fully rigid" isn't a thing.

  6. #206
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    Have about 50 miles on the Miracle. No issues w/ the frame though I'm spooked by the hodgepodge front axle set up and my homebrew repair of the Hylex brake hood attachment. This fear keeps me from hammering hard while standing. That and being in a fully winterized preseason shape of pale pear.
    It feels like a bike. Nothing bad, nothing amazing. (yet)

    Rear wheel (using the QR dropouts) sits perfectly straight. No idea why. Something seated, or I had it in wrong or I'm going blind or have a head injury or....

    My dream of loving the Salsa Woodchipper bars might stay a dream. They feel very similar to a drop bar (prob becuase they are a drop bar) and i'm not a huge fan of drops. The hilarious lowest position on these feels even more ridiculous than it does on a road bike. But again- I really like riding upright.

    No creaks (frame was ordered w/ a threaded BB), nothing wrong. But- this has been easy riding on easy terrain. If something went wrong w/ any bike in this time, well- that'd be truly sad.

    BENKD-
    I have two Moots but they are a bit long in the toof. Silly 1 1/8th headtubes are going to kill me. Just ask the spaceship riding carbon knee pad dropper squish crowd. Otherwise-if someone made a bike I liked more than the Mooootssess.. I suppose I'd try to get one. Until then, I'll keep loving these. Even as they enter into their 8th season of joy.
    I sold the Blacksheep. James was quite good to me back in the day. Before bent flattened tubes made him the soup du jour of NAHBS. Wait- not the soup du jour, the Belle Of the Ball?
    Anyway....
    That little 26" hardtail was alternately psychic and terrifying. Perhaps I requested a too steep headtube. But I've got a tendency towards a twitchy bike.
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  7. #207
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    thats cool, I'll graduate to a Ti frame one day, for now high end steel does the trick for me.

    good news that the rear wheel is sitting in there strait. at least the frame isn't jacked.
    Rigid SS 29er
    Fat Lefty
    SS MonsterCross
    SS cyclocross
    all steel

    "Fully rigid" isn't a thing.

  8. #208
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    I have visual confirmation that MB has the new axle sorted. Should ship tomorrow - I imagine you'll hear from her soon as well.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese 2015 cyclocross bike frame 142mm thru axle-htb17gaehpxxxxalxfxxq6xxfxxxt.jpg  


  9. #209
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    What an odd evolution of a bike purchase this has been.
    Drip by drop, information about and on the frame comes in. Bit here and there.
    Then a photo from someone who is actually in possession of one.

    And so it continues- now w/ the fork.
    In a world where we want our highspeed internet to deliver everything instantly, where Amazon has even tried SAME day delivery.
    It's a new routine and perhaps a it refreshing.

    -JCB
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  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones View Post
    Drip by drop, information about and on the frame comes in . . . . . . . . . . . .


    In a world where we want our highspeed internet to deliver everything instantly.

    -JCB
    I don't mind it really I just wish the updates were a bit quicker.


    Fat Biker

  11. #211
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    Since I live in the hills and we are covered in snow, I'm slightly more patient than usual to wait for answers.

    And knowing that such a piece does exist, and just might end up on my bike?
    That helps too.
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  12. #212
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    I'll let you know when I have it in my hands - that was a photo from Jenny. From the other angles it looks like they resolved the loose fit as well as the length problem.

    I was under a little tighter time constraints and ended up getting a replacement fork domestically. Hopefully once the new axle comes in this will be a slick fork for someone.

  13. #213
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    (when I post this fast after a response- assume I'm at work)
    Have you seen that new Enve fork?
    It's plenty of the usual blah blah Enve praise. And I'm sure it's amazing.
    But what caught my eye was the fender. It mounts w/o any hardware.
    A bit too limited in it's use for my preference, but also very clever and desirable.
    NAHBS 2015: ENVE Teases New Dual Bolt Seatpost Design, Plus More Details on GRD Fork and Chris King 12mm Prototype Hubs!
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  14. #214
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    What a strange fork - that's pretty questionable clearance on a 38
    I was lucky enough to get my hands on a TRP - it's a really nice bit of kit.
    New Carbon Cyclocross Fork from TRP | road.cc

  15. #215
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    Have it in hand - will test fit tonight. Looks like it should work!

    Chinese 2015 cyclocross bike frame 142mm thru axle-img_20150313_093535.jpg

  16. #216
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    WoooHoooo!
    Progress!
    Does the out diameter of the nut seem a bit larger?
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  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by InVeloVeritas View Post
    Have it in hand - will test fit tonight. Looks like it should work!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Nice!! Looking forward to finding out if this is a solid solution. Thanks.

  18. #218
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    Test fit - it works! Nice and secure. Nut could be a little shorter still, but the OD is correct and it fits securely.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese 2015 cyclocross bike frame 142mm thru axle-img_20150313_114508.jpg  


  19. #219
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    Many thru axles options available.

  20. #220
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    I'm not sure there are many thru axles that'll fit this fork.
    Sitting w/ one on my desk, wondering how I can cure the issues- I found ZERO that would be solutions.
    Seems the MB variant that Veritas has is the only way to do it. At least that I've heard of.
    If I'm wrong- PLEASE! I'd love a link to what will work. Finding a nut w/ the proper outer diameter is rare.
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  21. #221
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    Yeah, and I had zero luck getting any sellers to send me specs or dimensions for what they were selling.
    Just lean on MB - they had it expedited to me within a week.

  22. #222
    amd
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    I've got over 400 miles on my 1x11 "Gerät" as I've affectionately called it.

    still don't have the right axles but the ones I have work just don't look good.

    Bike ride is decent. Not the s-works sl4 ride quality I came fr but that's not surprising. Feels secure over the potholed roads I've been navigating. It snaps nice compared to other cx bikes I've had, so that was a pleasant surprise. It feels lively on the road. Some would call it twitchy but I like short wheel bases personally.

    It's plenty stiff as well. I'm a fan.

    Now if I could just get the seller to send me the right axles...
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  23. #223
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    I'm glad to have found this thread. I have two MC286 frames on order (building one for myself and my wife). I was glad to learn about the through axles being available from Miracle Bikes, because I've had quite a time trying to determine what kind I need and where to get them for a reasonable price.

    Someone earlier in this thread mentioned something about 142x12 rear wheels and derailleur compatibility. I'm basically a roadie and have no previous experience with through axles or disc brakes. My plan was to build this up with a Shimano 105 group, MTB wheels (I'm looking at the Mavic Crossride wheelset) and BB7 brakes. Is there any reason to question whether the Shimano road derailleur would work on the 142x12 frame?

  24. #224
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    AMD-
    Glad to know you are tourble free.
    I"m about 100 miles in, no issues except those I"ve listed (MB never sent TA rear dropouts (supposedly being dealt w) and the F axle issue (supposedly being dealt w/!)).
    Spencer-
    I see no reason why a road der won't fit on this frame. I am running mine as a SS w/ hydro road brakes but- it'll all still fit.
    The issues you might have to hurdle won't be Derailluer vs frame. It might be cassette vs hub free body, but I think there are simple cures for your concerns.
    In short-you'll be fine.
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  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones View Post
    The issues you might have to hurdle won't be Derailluer vs frame. It might be cassette vs hub free body, but I think there are simple cures for your concerns.
    In short-you'll be fine.
    You're referring to the difference in chain line with the wider hub combined with road cranks, I assume? I had forgotten about that. If I understand all the measurements correctly, that would move the cassette over 2.5 mm from where it would be on a road hub with 130mm spacing. That possibly makes the small ring/small cog combination problematic, but means the large/large combination should work better than normal. I think I can live with that.

  26. #226
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    @qspencer

    The thing that would concern me about using a road rear derailleur most would be total tooth capacity . I'm looking at building up a drop bar do it all/gravel bike with a wide ratio block in back . The most I think I can get away with , using a short cage Ultegra rear mech is a 12-28 11s . That's without using any voodoo hackery of course (and the most I am comfortable to push it to). You may not want to go with such wide set of ratios YMMV

    Fat Biker

  27. #227
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    It appears there is a long cage derailleur and 11-32 cassette available with both the 105 and Ultegra groups. I'm going to pair that with a 50/34 compact crankset, which should be a wide enough range for me.

  28. #228
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    Hi, first time poster here but frequent lurker. After many days of reading this post, I finally went ahead and ordered an MC-286 also. Couldn't wait anymore after seeing all the pics! Went ahead and got the thru axles (which Jenny confirmed were correct) along with the headset, so hopefully everything will arrive as ordered.

    Anyways, is there a tubeless ready thru-axle cyclocross wheelset made by anyone yet? Or do I need to build up a set with MTB hubs? I'm a heavy rider (220) so I need something sturdy.

    Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Thanks!

  29. #229
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    Let me pull this little MTBR Forums trick out of my hat-
    KNOWING NOTHING ABOUT IT, AND HAVING DONE NO RESEARCH- Here's my loud opinion on the road gearing question.
    It'll work. And it'll be fine. (given that your der can handle the cassette spread).

    And on the topic of wheels-
    I also don't know but surely there may be options.
    Me? I can't say enough great things about these hubs, and this business:
    MTB270 Rear Disk/MTB Hub - 24/28/32h - QR or 12mm Thru Axle

    Light? Yes- as light as my DT240s.
    Verstile axle standards? Yes, less $$ than swapping end caps on DT Swiss hubs. (and easier)
    High Engadgement? Yes.
    Well made? (not enough miles to say but-) Yes.
    Bling Color options? No.
    Fancy packaging or stickers? No (but I added refelctive tape in the hubs)
    Great Service? Response to Emails and Questions? Yes.

    They built up great, are quiet, and I'd be very surprised if they fail me.
    Here's a thread on them.
    Initial Thoughts BikeHubStore MTB270 & MTB180 hubs

    I laced them to WTB KOM rims (too much rim for this bike but I like that it can pull double duty on other bikes if need be- esp since the hub is so versatile) w/ Sapim spokes.
    Of the things that lurk in my brain and worry me (like when I'm riding the MB on overly rough terrain and worry about the fork....)- these wheels aren't one of the concerns.

    -JCB
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  30. #230
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    Well count me in on the MC-286 if they've got the TA issue resolved. I'm in the process of finishing my paint design (back and forth with Jenny). It's looking good so far and hoping to give her the green light within the next day or so. I went ahead and ordered a setup of 38mm Carbon Tubulars off of ebay a few weeks ago and had them built with the Novatec 771/772 hub. They turned out awesome and fairly light for disk wheels 1425g.

  31. #231
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    Fore-
    Please post when Jenny gives you the photos of the painted frame.
    From her recent responses (or lack there of), you may have your painted frame w/ the CORRECT parts sooner than I have the correct dang axle. Happy Miles.

    The actual paint job they did on mine is great- but, I now wish I'd gone w/ a simple subtle silver.
    Next time perhaps.
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  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by qspencer View Post
    It appears there is a long cage derailleur and 11-32 cassette available with both the 105 and Ultegra groups. I'm going to pair that with a 50/34 compact crankset, which should be a wide enough range for me.
    This is true. But a long cage (any cage) road derailleur (non of the road versions I can think of anyway) isn't clutched. So chain slap and drop are a concern for me. This is why I felt it was a good compromise to go with mid/short ultegra 11s, even though the extra lower ratios are tempting

    Fat Biker

  33. #233
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    I'm running road derailluers, Campy Record 10sp, with and 11-28 cassette and a 34/46 chainring combo. I have no problems whatsoever with this group. I'm running this on a carbon Dedaccai Supercross disc, which has 135mm rear spacing. I do lots of fire road, single track and plenty of big climbs on most of my rides.

  34. #234
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    Don't forget if you're planning to run current 11spd that you have a 'road 11 speed ' freehub body. Mountain 11 speed is either XD or new XTR, neither of which will take a road cassette.
    Selection of road disc hubs is a little limited, even more so if you want thru axle. Bontrager, Easton, and DT come to mind with options.

  35. #235
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    Not to sound like some kool aid drinking clown but (I think) the BHS hubs I listed will work for a wide range of cassette options.

    Ordering the SRAM 11s free hub will only work w/ SRAM but the 11s Shimano set up I ordered will work in plenty of 8,9,10,and 11speed set ups.
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  36. #236
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    Yup , all good here for me .
    Won some new take-off cyclocross disk wheels off thief-bay .
    No name hubs.
    135mm OLD qr (qr's inc) .
    Shimano 11 speed compatible (10 speed spacer included) .
    Cartridge bearings throughout .
    Deep section disk rims .
    Just over 1900g .
    £75 ($110) delivered .

    They spin well and seem to have a decent amount of POE (not counted yet - for the price and weight I don't care either )
    Straight and true with fairly uniform tension (ping tested only) .

    They'll do to get me rolling till I can save the $$$ for some hookless narrow carbon hoops



    Fat Biker

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    Thanks JCB and others for the reply. I will check out those hubs. Is the WTB KOM rim you mentioned easy to run tubeless?

    I haven't seen much in terms of a major manufacturer making a tubeless thru axle cross wheelset yet, but I know there are some coming. Apparently Zipp and Bontrager are coming out with some, but you don't see many yet.

  38. #238
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    Yes.
    The WTB KOM set up perfectly tubless (using WTB Nano 40c TCS tires).
    I used Stan's tape. And all went fine.
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  39. #239
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    That's sweet - yeah, the confusion comes up now that Shimano offers 11 speed mtb.
    9/10/11 speed mtb - same freehub body as before (9/10 speed)
    11 speed road - longer freehub body, can use 10 speed with a spacer.

    You can't put an 11 speed road cassette on a 9/10/11 speed mtb freehub body. My coworker just ran into this after buying a set of DT 350s. The mtb version can't run a road cassette, but the 'road db' version can.

    Just watch out for that if you're shopping mtb hubs/wheels for 'cross.

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones View Post
    Yes.
    The WTB KOM set up perfectly tubless (using WTB Nano 40c TCS tires).
    I used Stan's tape. And all went fine.

    I think it must be easier with a slightly wider tyre to go tubeless . I tried and failed multiple times with some 32c Conti's .
    This was on Specialized tubeless ready Roval 29er rims . When I eventually got them to seat up and tried them on the road around the block , first corner the back blew off the rim . Put me on my a$$ and made a pretty mess of the rim edge too .

    Did manage a cool 180⁰ power drift in the process so it's all good LOL



    Fat Biker

  41. #241
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    I don't know that this is really that funny, or even accurate but...
    While trying to limp a friend home after his Specialized had some wheel issues- I heard the phrase "You can't say Roval w/o saying oval" and well it stuck w/ me.

    I've never had a tire blow off while tubeless- yet. I think that would unnerve me more than I can possibly guess.
    Last edited by Johnny Chicken Bones; 03-18-2015 at 09:35 AM.
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    Yeah , my butt did keep a firm grip on the seat in bends for a good while afterwards , if ya know what I mean
    It is easing up a bit now though , but it's always in the back of my mind . . . . . . . . .

    Cos ya never know when it just . . . . . might . . . . let . . . . . gooooooooooooooo ! ! !




    D'oH !



    Fat Biker

  43. #243
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    Mutcha Scratchin MB is still hanging me out to dry w/ the rear TA dropouts as well as the correct front axle.

    12 days ago, "Jenny" said such items would be sent.
    Perhaps they are on their way but nothing yet.

    Plus a Chain Reaction order never made it to my PO Box. So that's a F ring and stem that didn't show.
    Kind of a blessing since I now realize the stem would have been too short. And the F ring might have been to steep for my enumic self.
    Both would have been my own fault. A SS cross bike is silly on pave and it's not like I didn't have a stem I could have demoed.

    But it's no big deal. Just a simple 4 weeks after the frame arrived and I'm waiting on parts.
    (I don't know the emoticon for sarcasm)
    My hodgepodge F axle is working. The rear drops are working as QRs.
    It's a bike. It works.
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  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones View Post
    It's a bike. It works.
    Pushing the definition boundaries of "bike" and "works"

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    PMSL


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  45. #245
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    Well played FBiker.
    Well played.

    To be rolling around on this SS carbon space ship and claim "it's a bike, it works" sounds pretty ugly and smug.
    Guess it's time to move to Boulder so I can complain about how hard it is to find parking for my Land Rover.

    Today's MB issue is w/ the chain tensioner- but that post will have to wait for a different thread.
    --------- __o
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  46. #246
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    The latest from the matrix that calls herself "Jenny".


    Hello Peter,

    Glad to hear from you !

    I'm very sorry about the front axle and rear dropouts have not send to you, because the front axle product now. we had urgent factory, if stock will send to you soon ok ?

    i'm very sorry again

    Jenny


    I have to wonder just how happy she is to hear from me.
    Last edited by Johnny Chicken Bones; 03-20-2015 at 08:18 AM.
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  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones View Post
    The latest from the matrix that calls herself "Jenny".


    Hello Peter,

    Glad to hear from you !

    I'm very sorry about the front axle and rear dropouts have not send to you, because the front axle product now. we had urgent factory, if stock will send to you soon ok ?

    i'm very sorry again

    Jenny

    I have to wonder just how happy she is to hear from me.
    I wonder how urgent the factory is ? ? ? ? ? ?


    Fat Biker

  48. #248
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    I'm hoping an urgent factory is beneficial to our dilema!
    Time will tell... something anyway.
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  49. #249
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    XTR Di2?

    This will be a bit of a long shot given there are only about 5 people with this frame it seems but here goes;

    Has anyone tried running Di2 XTR? The rear is obviously not an issue but the front requires a mount such as
    Shimano XTR Di2 Front Derailleur Mount Adaptor | Evans Cycles
    in either Direct Mount, E-Type Mount, High Clamp Band or Low Clamp Band.

    Looking at MB's site it comes with a road style braze on, Chinese 2015 cyclocross bike frame 142mm thru axle-oem_miracle_bike_cx_142_12_carbon.jpg
    and that seat tube doesn't look round enough for a band clamp.

    The obvious answer would be use an Ultegra Di2 front mech but Shimano recently disabled that .

    The direct mount looks like it might work in place of the supplied braze on but I'd rather not find out the hard way. I've emailed Jenny but I'd rather not take their urgent factory word on it.

    Thanks.


    <edit> Reply back from Jenny
    Many thanks for your interested in our carbon CX frame MC-286

    you send me the link parts could not fit MC-286 frame. you need order fit CX frame this part
    Well that's a pain in the arse

  50. #250
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    Doktor-
    The idea of lacing up a MB w/ an XTR build makes my brain hurt.
    But I have no idea.
    I will add that getting clear responses from "Jenny" is nearly impossible. No matter how I would arrange the wording of my emails, the answer always returned in a vague and confusing way. the answers might be in my favor, or might not.
    I'm pretty sure they use the language barrier to their benefit.
    Like a shield.

    On a side note- "Jenny" says the correct F axle has been sent to me.

    On a second side note-
    Are any of you (living in the USA) seeing Chain Reaction orders getting lost?
    One of mine is listed as lost.
    One is very late.
    A friend's order arrived w/ the box all beat to hell (although the contents were fine).
    And a second friend is also worried about a late/lost order.
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  51. #251
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    Originally I was going to go 1x which wouldn't cost such a silly amount, wouldn't have a wide enough spread for a touringy adventure bike though, hopefully XT Di2 isn't too far away.

  52. #252
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    Mine is set up as a SS (for now).
    My hope is that I'll be able to use some frog modified variant of a 1X or electronic shifter at some point.

    While bleeding the TRP Hylex brakes (I can't recommend them enough) I saw an area under the brake lever hood that is clearly intended for an electronic shifting system.
    Then I saw this-
    Prototype TRP Di2 integration clicks climbers switch into Hylex hydro levers

    So- SS for now, and perhaps something else farther down the road.
    And MAN have I been waiting for the 11s XT.
    I just went w/ a frankencog 10s set up on the geared bike so that'll mean that Shimano will release what I was waiting for in about 10 minutes.

    But DI2 on a mountain or CX bike? Yikes.
    Derailleurs fail, get bent, smacked, and blown up. For me- it's coming. Not if, when.
    And that stuff is just too much $$ to be a disposable part. (for now!)
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  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Galactus View Post
    This will be a bit of a long shot given there are only about 5 people with this frame it seems but here goes;

    Has anyone tried running Di2 XTR? The rear is obviously not an issue but the front requires a mount such as
    Shimano XTR Di2 Front Derailleur Mount Adaptor | Evans Cycles
    in either Direct Mount, E-Type Mount, High Clamp Band or Low Clamp Band.

    Looking at MB's site it comes with a road style braze on, Click image for larger version. 

Name:	OEM_Miracle_Bike_CX_142_12_carbon.jpg 
Views:	370 
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    and that seat tube doesn't look round enough for a band clamp.

    The obvious answer would be use an Ultegra Di2 front mech but Shimano recently disabled that .

    The direct mount looks like it might work in place of the supplied braze on but I'd rather not find out the hard way. I've emailed Jenny but I'd rather not take their urgent factory word on it.

    Thanks.


    <edit> Reply back from Jenny

    Well that's a pain in the arse
    A full XTR Di2 setup? Even if you were able to run the front mech you'd surely run into issues with the bottom bracket and crank spindle length too? Isn't shell size for MTB 90/92mm and road 86mm (at least for PF86). Would you be running a flat bar set up too or would you reprogram road levers to work with the XTR drivetrain?

  54. #254
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    This is why I stick with BSA, so much easier to mix and match, Road is 68mm, MTB is either 73 or 68mm so a few spacers and you can fine tune the chain line while you're at it.
    Would be running dropbars, the R785 hydraulic Di2 levers work fine with XTR so long as if you're running a front mech it's also XTR, can't mix and match.

    Having looked at my box of broken bike bits and counted the number of smashed rear mechs I've decided to hold off on Di2 until XT comes out, unfortunately that limits drop bar/mtb mech compatibility to Sram.
    They don't make a rear mech that can do 2x11 so I'd have to stick with 10spd (not a problem) but their 10spd S700 dropbar hydraulic shifters are £650+ a set, doesn't end up much cheaper than XTR Di2 and with pretty much zero future compatibility.

    Bikes, why you so complicated?

  55. #255
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    I like the thinking outside of the box on this build.
    I went BSA w/ my MB build, but only so I could run a SS chain tensioner off the BB (it replaces one of the spacers)

    Doktor- I'm sure you remember the days when there was more compatibility between designs.
    I really am tired of seeing yet another new standard of headset/axle/brakes/wheels/freehubs/BB/mech etc.
    The splintering of all these ideas has worn me out. I'll run my Ti 1 1/8th frames into the ground before I adapt a new soon to be old standard.

    I had hoped to jump right over the 10s world on mountain bikes but while waiting for the 11s XT, I got too frustrated and ordered up a 1X10 system to get me thru.

    -P
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  56. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    I think it must be easier with a slightly wider tyre to go tubeless . I tried and failed multiple times with some 32c Conti's .
    This was on Specialized tubeless ready Roval 29er rims . When I eventually got them to seat up and tried them on the road around the block , first corner the back blew off the rim . Put me on my a$$ and made a pretty mess of the rim edge too .

    Did manage a cool 180⁰ power drift in the process so it's all good LOL



    Fat Biker
    I've got some Kenda Happy Medium 32c tubeless on Bontrager Mustang 29er OSB rims (great rims btw, too bad they don't make them anymore). They were a bit rough to get on the rim, but not too hard. They have worked brilliantly. Nothing phases this combo. I will never have tubes on a cross bike again (or any bike for that matter).

    I think I might buy this frame in a couple weeks: rebuild these rims with some Novatec 771/772 hubs I picked up (though I am considering getting some carbon hoops).

    Is the general consensus that the axle situation has been worked out (not counting Johnny)?

  57. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slyver View Post

    Is the general consensus that the axle situation has been worked out (not counting Johnny)?
    If ONE is a "general consensus" then yes it has. LOL

    P.S. If ya counting JCB (which ya gotta do, how can ya not ? ) then no it hasn't .

    For the problem to be sorted people need to have them in their grubby little mits no ?

    Give it a couple more weeks n then we'll probably be able to say yes. (no idea what MB is shipping with new orders)


    Fat Biker

  58. #258
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    Thinking of buying?
    Don't do it yet.
    Perhaps give me a day or three to see if this is what I'm really seeing.

    I'm looking at the drive side of the BB shell and I think the BSA (threaded) BB is shifting to the right! What the crap?

    I took a photos when it was new, now there seems to be about 1mm protruding to the R that wasn't there in the the original shots.
    I didn't take a shot of just the BB so it's hard to say for certain but I'd bet about 90% that it's migrated.
    It doesn't want to push back to the left, and it doesn't slip when tightening the BB.
    Odd for sure.

    Rides planned for tomorrow and Friday. Will know more soon.
    Could be a sad day!
    -JCB

    Chinese 2015 cyclocross bike frame 142mm thru axle-image.jpg
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  59. #259
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    Can any of you school me on a BB30-BSA adapter?
    What are the chances that MB runs all these frames as BB30, then stuffs a BSA adapter into it for folks like me?
    WHat would i be looking for to determine this?
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  60. #260
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    BB30 to BSA sleeves are definitely a thing

    Name:  sram_bb30_to_bsa_adaptor_17615-340x197.jpg
Views: 1205
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    Isn't crazy to think that it would be quite a good cost saving measure, only have to make one frame and shove in a metal sleeve that definitely won't have cost them $50 like the SRAM one.

    Having removed BB30 bearings the interference fit should be sufficient to keep it in place no matter what, would seem there is a tolerance issue with either the frame or the adaptor, if you know someone with BB30 tools maybe get them to bosh it out and stick it back in with some threadlock?

    For comparison here's the BSA BB of my 2yr old Flyxxi 20chiner, was one piece molded in then.
    Chinese 2015 cyclocross bike frame 142mm thru axle-img_2615.jpg

  61. #261
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    Let yet another hurdle between me and this bike begin!
    Plenty of this weird build lands on MB.
    -The sent the wrong F axle.
    -They were incommunicado for a bit before repsonding to my inquiries about the axle.
    -They didn't have an axle to send
    -I'm waiting for the axle, that has been sent.
    Add to that, pretty much the exact same issues w/ the rear dropouts.
    -I asked for both QR and TA rear drops. The frame arrived w/ two pair of QR. (Anyone want a set?)
    -The correct rear drops are on their way.

    There have been plenty of other issues.

    I snapped a brake hood band. No idea how, I'd like to say I'm not a ham fisted mechanic but... whatever. They sent a new set.
    The Hylex brakes didn't show w/ any olive or barbs for a re-bleed. So they sent some out.
    (TRP has been great- and the brakes are well worth it)

    A chain reaction order didn't show.
    They finally gave me a credit. Then the order showed. We're debating that issue now via email.

    My hopeful stem size was wrong. Minor and avoidable.

    The SS gearing I had planned is incompatible w/ the amazingly cool (and limited) chain tensioner device I'm using. (it attaches at the BB). So I'm running a 32t instead of 34t ring. I'll live.

    The chain tensioner dragged on the the frame during installation so some dremel work later (to the device, not the frame) and it fits fine.

    DEDA bar tape blows. Should have stuck w/ what I like and know. Tore that during installation. (guess I am more of a hack that I like to admit)
    That might be it....

    Wait- oh yea.
    THE THREADED BB INSERT IS DEFINITELY MOVING! If I pull the cranks out and snug the BB tight. The threaded insert moves. Moves back when I try to loosen the BB cups.
    Fricking fracking frocking hurdles.

    So- now what is the best way to fix this?
    The Doktor has listed that it is likely an insert. I think he is correct. It's an easy way for MB to offer options. Make the frame a BB30, stuff a sleeve in it for BSA folks and all is well. The inside measurement is the same 42mm that a BB30 is.
    So now I have to find a safe way to remove the sleeve, and install one that doesn't slip.

    Part of the reason of this build was for gravel bike tours.
    Will I ever trust it enough to strike out on?
    Perhaps but not yet.
    -JCBones.
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  62. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones View Post
    Let yet another hurdle between me and this bike begin!
    Plenty of this weird build lands on MB.
    -The sent the wrong F axle.
    -They were incommunicado for a bit before repsonding to my inquiries about the axle.
    -They didn't have an axle to send
    -I'm waiting for the axle, that has been sent.
    Add to that, pretty much the exact same issues w/ the rear dropouts.
    -I asked for both QR and TA rear drops. The frame arrived w/ two pair of QR. (Anyone want a set?)
    -The correct rear drops are on their way.

    There have been plenty of other issues.

    I snapped a brake hood band. No idea how, I'd like to say I'm not a ham fisted mechanic but... whatever. They sent a new set.
    The Hylex brakes didn't show w/ any olive or barbs for a re-bleed. So they sent some out.
    (TRP has been great- and the brakes are well worth it)

    A chain reaction order didn't show.
    They finally gave me a credit. Then the order showed. We're debating that issue now via email.

    My hopeful stem size was wrong. Minor and avoidable.

    The SS gearing I had planned is incompatible w/ the amazingly cool (and limited) chain tensioner device I'm using. (it attaches at the BB). So I'm running a 32t instead of 34t ring. I'll live.

    The chain tensioner dragged on the the frame during installation so some dremel work later (to the device, not the frame) and it fits fine.

    DEDA bar tape blows. Should have stuck w/ what I like and know. Tore that during installation. (guess I am more of a hack that I like to admit)
    That might be it....

    Wait- oh yea.
    THE THREADED BB INSERT IS DEFINITELY MOVING! If I pull the cranks out and snug the BB tight. The threaded insert moves. Moves back when I try to loosen the BB cups.
    Fricking fracking frocking hurdles.

    So- now what is the best way to fix this?
    The Doktor has listed that it is likely an insert. I think he is correct. It's an easy way for MB to offer options. Make the frame a BB30, stuff a sleeve in it for BSA folks and all is well. The inside measurement is the same 42mm that a BB30 is.
    So now I have to find a safe way to remove the sleeve, and install one that doesn't slip.

    Part of the reason of this build was for gravel bike tours.
    Will I ever trust it enough to strike out on?
    Perhaps but not yet.
    -JCBones.
    JCB I feel for ya dude . A new build an all ya wanna do is ride . Not fight with parts and tools .
    I wonder if MB would be willing to step up for ya here ? I know they've been less than stellar so far but I would be tempted to ask some serious Q's here .

    Do they do the one piece BSA BB at all or do they just make BB30 and sleeve down ?
    Was yours a one off (as you asked for custom paint) and they only realised after they'd painted it that they'd used the wrong BB so shimmed it ?
    Would they be prepared to refund you the amount it would cost (or at least half) to get a decent BB adapter ?
    Perhaps point them to this thread as maybe some leverage , to show them the interest this frame has .
    I am one of the people waiting to see how your experience pans out here JCB before I pull the trigger . I'm sure there are more ?
    I personally do not want an adapted BB30 to BSA frame .

    Don't waste your time or energy searching for a BB insert . Do yourself a favour and get the Praxis one . I understand that it's the only one that "locks" into the BB with their patented design .
    Expensive compared to the rest but cheap if you have to buy one when you're dissatisfied with the cheap option you previously ended up buying . It seems to get good feedback whenever it's mentioned . I personally have never read anything (other than price ) bad about it .

    Hope ya get this figured soon buddy



    Fat Biker


    P.S. The Praxis link

  63. #263
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    Thanks Fat.
    It is one funny puzzle.
    The GF is always saying how much happier I am when I have projects to keep my head busy.
    But she also says i'm happier when I'm on the bikes.

    The inner threaded sleeve has cut outs inside, like you can see into the down tube and seat tube.

    If I get around to it, I might try to press out the sleeve and get an idea of it's outer surface. If it's a surface that might (as I'd hope!) adhere to epoxy, I might just glue it back in w/ the hope that it'll do.

    I saw a video of the Praxis being installed- it looks pretty dang good.
    I'll sleep on it for a bit and let it marinate in my head.

    One thing I could tell is that the photos Jenny sent after it was painted are the frame w/o the threaded BB.
    Then when it arrived- it's threaded.
    So, the frame is definitly not threaded after painting. Then they convert it for the buyer.
    Here are two shots to clarify.
    Here's how it arrived to me:
    Chinese 2015 cyclocross bike frame 142mm thru axle-image.jpg

    And here's how Jenny showed it after painting.
    Chinese 2015 cyclocross bike frame 142mm thru axle-image.jpg
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  64. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones View Post
    If I get around to it, I might try to press out the sleeve and get an idea of it's outer surface. If it's a surface that might (as I'd hope!) adhere to epoxy, I might just glue it back in w/ the hope that it'll do.

    TBH I dunno which I'd have more confidence in now that I've thought about it

    The epoxy route could be a darn site cheaper if it works . But if it don't it sure is gonna be a b***h to remove that epoxy

    I think I'd take the risk though .

    I'd key both the BB sleeve and press-in real well and leave them as coarse as possible . Just to give the epoxy a good chance to latch onto something .

    What were you thinking of using JB Weld or . . . . ?



    Fat Biker

  65. #265
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    Probably toothpaste and coffee.
    Should do the trick. The oils in the grounds will keep the creaking down and the toothpaste should help with any voids or cavities.

    Actually- I suppose a frame like this is largely epoxy so i try to find out what epoxy might be the best.
    I used some epoxy kit while repairing an old Superfly with a broken seat stay. It's still rolling so I suppose I trust it. I can't imagine I can hope it won't creak though.

    I've traded emails with Jenny. New photos have been forwarded to her manager. My fingers are crossed.

    Here a shot of how it moved inside the frame.
    Chinese 2015 cyclocross bike frame 142mm thru axle-image.jpg
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  66. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones View Post
    Probably toothpaste and coffee.
    Should do the trick. The oils in the grounds will keep the creaking down and the toothpaste should help with any voids or cavities.
    Any of these should do the trickChinese 2015 cyclocross bike frame 142mm thru axle-pickletoothpaste.jpg






    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones View Post
    Actually- I suppose a frame like this is largely epoxy so i try to find out what epoxy might be the best.
    I used some epoxy kit while repairing an old Superfly with a broken seat stay. It's still rolling so I suppose I trust it.
    Hopefully you won't be getting any epoxy on the carbon so would it really matter what type of epoxy you used ?
    If you were bonding metal directly to the carbon then . . . . . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones View Post
    I can't imagine I can hope it won't creak though.
    That JB Weld says it takes 20 - 25mins to "set" and upto 24hrs to fully cure . Dunno under what circumstances that would be though . The longer you could leave it the though the better chance it would have of being "fully cured" and less likely to creak .

    How long can you stay off a new bike build . . . . . . ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones View Post
    I've traded emails with Jenny. New photos have been forwarded to her manager. My fingers are crossed.
    Don't suppose she give you an idea as to whether all the frames are made like this or not yet ?

    With the luck you're having with this frame JCB , would bonding the BB in yourself void the warranty if you had to make a future claim ? I would be tempted to get conformation via email one way or the other .

    As is it looks to me you could make a claim against a manufacturing defect and get a warranty replacement . If you could stomach the high return shipping costs that is ? Again , a bargaining tool you might wish to use to offset the cost of repairs . It would be cheaper for you and "Jenny" to refund part or all of the repair cost than to return the frame and get a new (custom painted) frame sent back .



    Fat Biker

    P.S. Mmmmmmnnnn bacon toothpaste

  67. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones View Post
    Probably toothpaste and coffee.
    Should do the trick. The oils in the grounds will keep the creaking down and the toothpaste should help with any voids or cavities.

    Actually- I suppose a frame like this is largely epoxy so i try to find out what epoxy might be the best.
    I used some epoxy kit while repairing an old Superfly with a broken seat stay. It's still rolling so I suppose I trust it. I can't imagine I can hope it won't creak though.

    I've traded emails with Jenny. New photos have been forwarded to her manager. My fingers are crossed.

    Here a shot of how it moved inside the frame.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    So it actually rotated forward too? Wow, not good. Kind of glad I spec'd the PF86 now. Having said that I was in hurry to get it built for a race and installed an XTR PF BB that I had (fitted cups only, without the central tube). They were almost put in by hand, which is not normal in my experience. Having said this they have worked fine for 2000km and it is only now that they are creaking under heavy load. Why am I telling you this? Well, a very well respected LBS gave me some of a green coloured Loctite product that fills, sticks and hardens on application. It is a semi permanent solution, that they usually use for MTB suspension bearings that have worn or battered the frame bearing seat out of tolerance. Perhaps this might work for you if you were able to remove the sleeve?

    Oh, and for anyone that's interested, it turns out that MTB PF90/92 is a 41mm cup and Road PF is 42mm, hence why my cups were lacking in interference fit.

    Hope you get the BSA sleeve sorted, I'm sure returning the frame is not a desirable option at this stage!

  68. #268
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    I think that this is the one. I'd say it would be ideal;

    LOCTITE 648 - Retaining Compound - Loctite

  69. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing snake View Post
    I think that this is the one. I'd say it would be ideal;

    LOCTITE 648 - Retaining Compound - Loctite
    Thanks for the info and link Snake

    Quote Originally Posted by Racing snake View Post
    . . . . . . . I was in hurry to get it built for a race and installed an XTR PF BB that I had (fitted cups only, without the central tube). They were almost put in by hand, which is not normal in my experience. Having said this they have worked fine for 2000km and it is only now that they are creaking under heavy load. Why am I telling you this? Well, a very well respected LBS gave me some of a green coloured Loctite product that fills, sticks and hardens on application. It is a semi permanent solution, that they usually use for MTB suspension bearings that have worn or battered the frame bearing seat out of tolerance. Perhaps this might work for you if you were able to remove the sleeve?

    Oh, and for anyone that's interested, it turns out that MTB PF90/92 is a 41mm cup and Road PF is 42mm, hence why my cups were lacking in interference fit.
    Have we seen any close pics of your completed build yet Snake ?


    Far Biker

  70. #270
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    Snake-
    The inner sleeve is resting on carbon. Not a second aluminum sleeve. Any epoxy/LocTite would be sandwiched between carbon and the aluminum sleeve.
    Does the LocTite listed work in a situation like that?
    Any creaks will have to be heard in time, regardless of the glue used or it's cure time.
    I'm hopeful. But barely!

    Manufacturer defect, without question.
    But, I'm $700 into the frame w/ headset/seat collar/TAs.
    All the rest of the parts would work fine on someone elses frame/fork.
    In a perfect world, they watch me (via Skype) saw the damned thing into pieces and send out a new one but perfect worlds don't visit the earth I know too much.

    Are you confident that Shimano goes 41/42mm between road and mtn?
    They used to be so good at items that play well together.
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  71. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    Thanks for the info and link Snake



    Have we seen any close pics of your completed build yet Snake ?


    Far Biker
    Yes, they are in the thread here a few pages back...somewhere, built in October.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones View Post
    Snake-
    The inner sleeve is resting on carbon. Not a second aluminum sleeve. Any epoxy/LocTite would be sandwiched between carbon and the aluminum sleeve.
    Does the Loctite listed work in a situation like that?
    Any creaks will have to be heard in time, regardless of the glue used or it's cure time.
    I'm hopeful. But barely!

    Manufacturer defect, without question.
    But, I'm $700 into the frame w/ headset/seat collar/TAs.
    All the rest of the parts would work fine on someone elses frame/fork.
    In a perfect world, they watch me (via Skype) saw the damned thing into pieces and send out a new one but perfect worlds don't visit the earth I know too much.

    Are you confident that Shimano goes 41/42mm between road and mtn?
    They used to be so good at items that play well together.
    Are you sure? From the image it looks like if you remove the BSA sleeve it was inside of a secondary tube of metal versus carbon. That same second interior tube looks like my PF interior which was metal, alloy most likely. In fact, I'm wondering if the standard manufacture of these frames is PF, and the BSA is an option where they just fit a sleeve to the PF? I'd nearly put money on it that its alloy, which I'm sure that's better news to you.

    In any case, while Loctite spec sheet says 'for metal', it doesn't say not for other materials either. I mentioned to LBS that frame was carbon, but got the impression that they used it to seat bearings into worn surfaces of any material where required. Will you check your BB shell(s) and let me know if both are Metal, or if one is carbon. If one is carbon, I'll ask the LBS if the Loctite is suitable for you.

    If you haven't already considered a removal method I'd suggest an old BSA cup in one side and a drift of some sort plus a lump hammer. It won't be pretty, but neither is removing a PF cup. Its a brutal affair!

    Re; Shimano BB, for pressfit anyway, yes, with the following additional information. MTN is for e.g. SM-BB94-41A and road is SMBB-91-42A, now I know what the latter 41A and 42A represent! But road can also be a 41mm PF BB with for example the SM-BB92-41B. I haven't yet learned (or remembered) what the A or B represent. Its just nuts with the amount of standards at the minute.

  73. #273
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    I've always liked how well Shimano managed to make so many of their parts work together. Like the way all hydro levers used to (used to) work w/ any hydro caliper.
    And, except for the F der, all mechs worked w/ all shifters (as long as it was 9s/9s etc).
    Guess those days are gone in the new era of multiple standards and ever changing parts.

    I was just gettgin ready to write something along the lines of "YES- it's carbon...."
    But on later inspection, in the bright sunlight of a great day, I can't say with certainty that it's carbon or aluminum. I'm not as sure as I was.
    The logic of making a BB30 frame and stuffing an adapter in it when needed is clear. It's what I would do in a cost saving way.

    If you look inside the BSA insert (in my photo above) you can see it's clearly carbon. About 1mm thick. But- what might not show up clearly is that the BSA sleeve isn't actually touching the carbon inside. So- the carbon probably is a hair wider and there are aluminum cups or sleeves at the edges, where a BB30 bearing would sit.
    On the drive side, the BSA insert is pushed out about 1mm, on the ND side, there is a 1mm area of what might be aluminum. Hard to say but I think you are correct. It has glue on it so I won't know until MB gives me the freedom to either start pounding on it, or send it back.

    The mystery of this BB is becoming more clear.
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  74. #274
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    As you might recall, I bought mine from Ican versus MB. As such only BSA or PF was offered. The PF is PF86 versus BB30 which are quite different physically. Did MB offer a BB30 also? If not I'd be nearly certain that we have the same alu tube running through the BB, only yours has the BSA adapter in it. It seems that while they do some good QC on these framesets, it doesn't extend to the auxiliary parts, e.g your TA issue also.

    I need to change my BB again soon, so if you don't have this resolved by then I'll take some images of the empty BB shell so you can compare them. The rest of us seem to have spec'd the BSA, I think I'm the only one with PF. From memory, that rect-oval ( :-) ) cutout inside the BB shell looking into the downtube looks identical to mine. If so, rest assured, its an 41mm x 86mm aluminum shell. Time to contact 'Jenny'! lol

    Edit: if you found it was a PF that would be the ideal scenario as you could simply switch to PF versus having to re-glue the BSA insert?

  75. #275
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    MB only offers it in BB30 or BSA.
    It would be interesting to know the real truth about who actually manufactures these frames and how many names they are sold under.

    Yesterday this issue really seemed huge. Now, after the help of this forum and other reading- I'm not too worried. I like to see MB step up, but I'm also not to upset about just pushing it out, cleaning it up, and glueing it in.

    But for now- I'm going to ride other bikes for a few days.
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  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing snake View Post
    Yes, they are in the thread here a few pages back...somewhere, built in October.

    My definition of close must be different to yours Snake LOL
    I saw the earlier pics ya posted . Perhaps I should have said detail pics instead
    No worries dude



    Fat Biker

  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    My definition of close must be different to yours Snake LOL
    I saw the earlier pics ya posted . Perhaps I should have said detail pics instead
    No worries dude



    Fat Biker
    LOL, ok. If there's a particular detail you want to look at just let me know and I'll snap it. Its a fairly straight forward build in any case, nothing too flash.

  78. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing snake View Post
    LOL, ok. If there's a particular detail you want to look at just let me know and I'll snap it. Its a fairly straight forward build in any case, nothing too flash.
    It's a bloody nice bike from what these old eyes can see from the pics you posted . And it looks a damn sight better than the hotch potch piece of ebay bitsa I'm riding .

    No there's absolutely no jealousy here at all . No sir . . . . none LOL


    Fat Biker

  79. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    It's a bloody nice bike from what these old eyes can see from the pics you posted . And it looks a damn sight better than the hotch potch piece of ebay bitsa I'm riding .

    No there's absolutely no jealousy here at all . No sir . . . . none LOL


    Fat Biker
    Cheers for the complement, indeed I'm very happy with it so far. I just want to change the wheels, they are too Cx specific.

  80. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing snake View Post
    As you might recall, I bought mine from Ican versus MB. As such only BSA or PF was offered. The PF is PF86 versus BB30 which are quite different physically. . . . . . . If so, rest assured, its an 41mm x 86mm aluminum shell. Time to contact 'Jenny'! lol

    Edit: if you found it was a PF that would be the ideal scenario as you could simply switch to PF versus having to re-glue the BSA insert?

    Bit confused here Snake you seem to realise PF86 and BSA are different physically . Then you seem to be saying if JCB pushes the BSA BB sleeve out he'll be left with a 41mm diameter x 86mm wide shell that would be ready to accept a PF86 BB ?

    A BSA shell is either 68mm wide (usually old skool road bike and some MTB's) or 73mm wide (new skool MTB's and some road bikes) (all this excluding 100 mm and 120mm fat bikes shells that utilise BSA threading of course ) . The only thing I can see as being possible here is the shell is a BB30 (be it carbon or alloy but still 68mm wide as per BB30 specs) and they forgot to bond JCB's alloy BSA sleeve in .


    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones View Post
    If you look inside the BSA insert (in my photo above) you can see it's clearly carbon. About 1mm thick. But- what might not show up clearly is that the BSA sleeve isn't actually touching the carbon inside. So- the carbon probably is a hair wider and there are aluminum cups or sleeves at the edges, where a BB30 bearing would sit.
    On the drive side, the BSA insert is pushed out about 1mm, on the ND side, there is a 1mm area of what might be aluminum.
    Hey JCB could you not take a sharp object and score the NDS exposed inner BB face of the frame to see if it's shiny or black ? And do the same to the middle part of the BB shell (the part you say is carbon) to confirm the same ?

    It's not unheard of for a totally carbon BB30 frame . But the cutouts in the BB shell on your frame look identical to the cutouts on the alloy pressed in shell . Cutouts like those are usually done in the alloy sleeve before it's bonded in .

    If you do find it is a BB30 shell and you wanna keep the bike single speed , how about this to tidy things up ? It might solve your dremmeling woes with that chain tensioner



    Fat Biker

  81. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing snake View Post
    Cheers for the complement, indeed I'm very happy with it so far. I just want to change the wheels, they are too Cx specific.
    You wanna go for deeper section rims similar to pandaxpress' ?

    Your next choice has got to be carbon surely ?

    It would be rude not to LOL



    Fat Biker
    Last edited by Fat Biker; 03-28-2015 at 06:20 PM.

  82. #282
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    Now you are talking Fat.
    I have no interest in a BB30- too many BSA bikes now and don't want to (yet) muddy up my parts bin w/ such specific parts.
    But- that is an aswer to all of my woes!
    Fixes the lame BSA, makes it a cleaner SS....
    Oh hell. There goes another night of surfing and wondering.
    I'm not going to score anything until MB responds a bit to this issue.
    Still curious to hear whay approach they'll take.

    Wouldn't mind a chance to get a size up, and a new color, and make a list of all my other first world problems.
    --------- __o
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  83. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones View Post
    I have no interest in a BB30- too many BSA bikes now and don't want to (yet) muddy up my parts bin w/ such specific parts.
    In that case, press out the BSA sleeve and get your self something like the Enduro TorTite BB30-24 MTB, Praxis Works BB30 to HT2 or Rotor's BB30 to BB24 bottom bracket, and be done with all this non-sense.

  84. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by ms6073 View Post
    In that case, press out the BSA sleeve and get your self something like the Enduro TorTite BB30-24 MTB, Praxis Works BB30 to HT2 or Rotor's BB30 to BB24 bottom bracket, and be done with all this non-sense.
    The problem is that . . . . . . . JCB didn't order a BB30 frame for one. TWO we don't actually know if the remaining shell is a bb30 if he does push the BSA shell out. THREE nothing can be done till MB step up and clarify the situation as to WHAT can be done without voiding warranty.
    I'm sure JCB wants "to be done with all this non-sense" more than anyone. As he said earlier he's already into this frame and fork package for approximately $700. Yes it could be a relatively simple repair. Perhaps he feels he's spent enough already.

    At the end of the day why should he spend another cent more to fix what he didn't want or ask for in the first place ? When essentially it is a manufacturing defect that should be repaired or rectified by the company.

    Don't mean to come across as harsh, but it's easy spend someone else's money for them no ?


    Fat Biker

  85. #285
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    If- MB steps up w/ a great solution, I'm listening and you will all hear it.
    I am somewhat comforted by the idea that there are likely options out there that'll cure this issue up but-
    Fat Biker definitly hit the head on the nail. Or vice versus.

    It all started w/ the Nano 40. What a cool tire. I can use it on the Karate Monkey, or the steel Salsa CX (now more of a touring) bike. Cool tire.
    Then the ability to dream seeped into my wallet.

    Well.... it's cool tire but it might go well on a new frame. Jeez- I'll never spring for a Pivot CX bike, or Niner, or whatever else. A guy in town as a MB full suspension that he raves about.
    I could try that.

    Initial build specs had it in under $1000.
    Re-using old rims, spokes, cranks, bars, levers, etc.
    Wow- custom paint is only about $50....
    Well I'd hate to stuff those old Stans rims in something w/ fresh bright paint. And those expensive Hylex brakes sure seem to fit the bill.... etc.

    Bit by bit the build cost of this "cheap" project has gotten too high.
    The YESS ETR BB chain tensioner (look it up- it's so damned clever) was $60 when I could have easily used some ratty old derailluer. But noooooo- little baby JCBs needed his cool bits.

    Anyway- yes, there are solutions to this BB issue.
    And yes Fat- I DO NOT want to spend a penny more on it (for now).

    I just pulled the 9 speed XTR set up off the mtn bike to go w/ a 1x set up (you know the type- doesn't go down the highway as well, doesn't climb as well but we all want it) so it may move to the MB in time.
    And if so- I won't need the SS set up anymore. A BSA will work fine then.

    All signs point to this being a BB30 frame w/ an insert but until I know for sure, I'm just not sure and I'm not going to step off that plank until I know more.

    Rode mountain today. On dirt. In the sun. In short sleeves. W/ the GF.
    More of that will do me well, will do us well. And the MB can sit for a bit until I know more.
    I should have it tip top in time for the Oregon Outback.

    You shouldn't be reading this because you are either riding, or too tired from riding.
    -JCB
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  86. #286
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    hey Johnny Chicken,
    i had a similar issue with a Ican CX frame a couple of years ago. it was well used so I didn't chase it too hard.
    Mine was a BB30 frame that i BELIEVE was a PF30 carbon tube with bonded alloy BB30 inserts. one of these is what came loose. once it was out you could see the bonding agent had missed large areas of the insert/frame.

    after consulting a mate who's a boat builder (lots of carbon experience) he recommended Araldite (the strong stuff, not the "quick" version - it takes 3 days to cure fully).
    as others have discussed, it seems like the 68mm frames are all PF30 with alloy inserts bonded in.
    what happened? it worked a treat. amazingly well. raced & trained that frame for 2 more years without a hitch. the BB was probably the strongest part on the bike!!!!!

    as a note - my option 2 was to get a Praxis/Wheels Manufacturing threaded PF bb as the threads on the BB hold the whole thing together.
    You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel!!!

  87. #287
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    Hey- You in the Towel! Can you hear me now?
    Araldite has been added to my Amazon cart. I'll wait to see what MB says about this before I order it.

    When you say that the bike " worked a treat. amazingly well. raced & trained that frame for 2 more years without a hitch"... Can you include silence? No creaks? None?

    And thanks.
    These tidbits are why I continue to use MTBR forums. Well, that and the usual "a buddy of mine knew a guy w/ a frame like that and thought it was pretty good" type responses.
    --------- __o
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  88. #288
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    I've traded emails w/ Jenny and, as always, she has been very positive and seems to be working the BB problem thru her managers.
    But no conclusion yet.

    One interesting part- MB knows about this thread and is following our discussions.
    I see it as a good thing.
    I like that they are interested in our opinions and discussions.

    Go ride your bikes.
    -JCB
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  89. #289
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    Just a quick follow up on my experience ordering from MB. After ordering, it took about 10 days for Jenny to ship the frame/fork/axles. She said they were waiting on the correct thru axles to arrive.

    Once she confirmed it was shipped, she sent me a tracking number and it arrived in less than 7 days. The frame is in perfect condition - everything looks good. The thru axles are the correct ones.

    The only thing that was wrong is that she didn't include the headset I ordered. But she did send a seatpost clamp, so I guess that just about evens things out. I will email her and see if I can get one, but not a big deal either way.

    Don't think I can post pics yet, but I will keep you updated on the build. Thanks for all your input!!

  90. #290
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    That's great news!
    Another happy builder.
    Not that I'm mad. I only ordered it way back when and hope to have all the correct parts soon.
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  91. #291
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    Gluddy - Did you order the BSA or BB30. I'm likely going to take the plunge this week.

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    Hi SufferFest - BSA. It looks fine, but of course, who knows when I start to build it up. I'm a little weary seeing JCB's problem with his BSA.

    The BSA looks a little different than JCB's though - it's solid all the way through with no holes. Just the threads on one side, metal, then threads on the opposite side. I will try and post a pic if possible.

  93. #293
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    Gluddy-
    I like your chances with your BSA.
    Mine has got to be a fluke. And really- not a terribly tough one to fix.
    If MB had regular problems gluing in their BSA a sleeves, it'd be all over the place.
    Buyers from all disciplines would be posting about the issues.
    You'll be fine. I'm certain.

    You could put in one half of your bb, and snug it up tight.
    Not crazy gorilla anger tight- just tight. If it doesn't move, you're probably fine.
    Ride lots and keep us posted.

    -JCB
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  94. #294
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    Hey JC,
    In terms of "worked a treat" - nothing. no noise, no movement, absolutely perfect for the next 2 seasons.
    I was always a little concerned about bearing seat alignment and prem bearing wear - but it never seemed to be an issue. I used the BB30 bearing presses i have and a headset press (exactly as you would to insert bearings) to hold that in place while the araldite cured, and while that's a bit of a ghetto way to ensure bearing seat alignment it was the best i could do.

    as for the LONG term use of that frame - a mate is currently riding it as his commuter and it's still kicking. it was a model MB sold also (AC023)
    You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel!!!

  95. #295
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    Thanks Spiro.
    IF the thing was perfect for 2 seasons and is now so bodies trouble free commuter- well that problem was solved.

    Araaldite it is!
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  96. #296
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    I heard from Miracle Bikes yesterday.
    Jenny said that the factory says I need to buy a PF30.

    Bummer.
    First- I don't want to buy a PF30. As we've said- I don't want to buy anything.
    What I want to do is ride my bike.

    Also- If what you've all taught me about BB30/PF30- A PF30 won't work anyway. Unless I push out the BSA, then remove the aluminum sleeve (that we think makes it a BB30) and then find that the shell can be PF30.

    So, that's where this project is now.
    I opened a dispute via PayPal.
    Guess we'll see where that takes us.
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  97. #297
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    Hi JC-Bones, I'm sorry to hear that you have been the Guinea Pig in all of this, and it appears that your issues are not yet solved. I'm guessing you just want to ride. Personally, I've had good experience with Chinese mfg of carbon products - primarily wheelset and rims, but nonetheless, good products and services??

    I've been lurking on the sidelines waiting to see how some of these issues will be resolved. I'm mostly a mountain biker, but my interest in this bike is to have a urban-disturb'n bike that I can swap nearly all components with my 29er. I like to have spares on hand for Rear Der., Crankset, chains, etc. This would allow me to have two frames with nearly everything swappable. With all the standards that have changed over the last 25years of mountain biking, I have boxes of stuff that is literally unusable.

    I also emailed Jenny last week and referenced this thread and asked her about the BB configuration and here is her response:

    Oh, about the BSA bottom bracket. BSA insert into the frame, also molded into the frame. but many customer insert no problem now.

    Yes, i know. there had send the bottom bracket problem picture to factory check it.

    thanks

    Jenny



    I'm not sure this is of any help to you JC, but others lurkers may find this helpful. I think I'm going to place an order early next week. My idea is to also get a build up for about $900 - I already have an extra wheel set and some other bits to make it a smaller investment.

    Thanks for your pioneering efforts here!
    SF

  98. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones View Post
    I heard from Miracle Bikes yesterday.
    Jenny said that the factory says I need to buy a PF30.
    Sorry to hear this JCB

    Unfortunately I feared they would kinda "wash their hands" of this and leave you to sort out this mess .

    On (I think) the 29er forum one guy received his frame with a crushed headtube . Solution - hammer it back to shape (it had aluminium headset races bonded in) and then epoxy over it then paint it himself . With little or no recompense . And this was deemed entirely acceptable by the vendor sadly .
    The western world seems to have a very different attitude towards customer service than any Asian country IME .

    They seem quite prepared to have the full amount refunded from their account rather than offer the cost of a solution . Maybe a BB converter of some sort in your case .

    Hope you get a satisfactory result from this soon JCB ?


    Fat Biker


    P.S. Did you ever receive your axles etc ?

  99. #299
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    Oh- I forgot to mention that MB seemed somewhat willing to, maybe, help pay for the BB.
    Jenny's email asked what such a fix might cost.

    Thanks Suffer. I was wondering how MB learned of this thread.

    I have so much overlap between frames (many 27.2 seatposts, compatible axle systems, 1 1/8th stems... etc) that I can completely agree with your desire to have interchangeable parts for your bikes.
    I have a winter town bike (Karate Monkey) that just might get a make over of sorts in order to ride the Co Trail this summer.
    Pretty much everything can be pulled from boxes (or this MB!) and I'll have a nice sturdy (tank-like) bike to use. It'd easily take large frame bag easier than my Ti frames.


    Given that the frame was ordered in late January and I'm still ironing out issues I'm bummed.

    But really, although I'm dealing w/ several issues, they boil down to:
    -Poor handling issues.
    They sent the wrong F axle, and no TA dropouts.
    -Country of origin issues.
    Once they realize they had an issue w/ the F axle, they worked to send one out, it's just not here yet.
    Even though MB has tried to get me the correct TA dropouts and F axle, they are mired in the depths of international shipping. Either lost or stuck in customs or whatever issues that are beyond MBs control. The only problem that MB holds responsibility for is not moving fast to send the correct parts.
    -Poor quality control in regards to the BB.
    No idea what happened at MB w/ this. A worker didn't use enough glue, not the correct glue.... I dunno.
    -Very slow response (and perhaps unwilling) to do much to rectify this situation.

    As a half full type of guy, I'm just glad to be tripping over great bikes, friends, and places to ride (WRim in a day on Monday? Anyone? Anyone?) while this MB frame gets ironed out.
    In time, the correct F axle and rear drops will show up in my PO Box.
    And if MB completely drops the ball w/ any type of warranty or care due the BB issues- well I guess it lets us know more about the pitfalls of such a purchase but I went into this knowing it was a bit of an experiment.
    And if I choose to glue in my own solution to the BB, at least it's a relatively low cost fix.
    I'd just buy the adhesive. Despite what is probably good advice- I'd skip the praxis or other conversion.

    Fat- it definitely is headed the direction we all expected, even if we were hoping for MB to step up more.
    -JCB
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    Running is for prey.

  100. #300
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    All this waiting for correct parts to show up sure does put a damper on a fella's new bike buzz


    Fat Biker

    P.S Ghetto tubeless conversion testing on the Fatty tomorrow (if it stays up overnight LOL ) for me .

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