Advice for any potential UK Transition owners
Please take a read of these two threads before you put any cash down.
Chocolatefoot.co.uk thread (read from the last few posts on wards).
Originally Posted by sooty and jim
That is absolutely appaling and down right out of order.
Who on earth does he think he is.
Last edited by OllyW; 02-23-2006 at 02:28 PM.
Dear members of Chocolate Foot - It must be noted that I am no longer a member of your forum, so I asked Sooty and Jim to post the message up there for me.
Despite what you might think, this is a sincere apology, however it also states the exact facts of exactly what went on.
I apologise for the fact I spoke with Jon's boss on Tuesday.
I called Jon's office with the intention to speak to Jon about his problem with our pricing policy, with the hope of resolving the issue and also trying to get my side of the story across. However the receptionist told me that Jon was out of the office and had been all afternoon, this sounded strange seeing as Jon had emailed me, and replied on Chocolate Foot, and I told the receptionist this and left my number for Jon to call me back. I realise I should have said thank you and hung up, however, I was questioned on the issue.
5 minutes later Jon's boss called me and was obviously pretty angry that Jon had posted on the company's time, I made no comment other than I was obviously upset that Jon seemed to have a vendetta against our pricing, and even stated that the fact he was doing it at work had nothing to do with me, all I was concerned about was the fact Jon was trying to undermine my company, by stating libelous statements, such as "Transition are mugging people" etc.
We have to add VAT (17.5%) to our UK prices, which brings us inline with any of the other European Distributors in terms of price.
The US retail of our frames is of course lower, but import duties, shipping, handling and VAT effect the final UK price massively, not only on Transitions but on pretty much any other products available in both markets, including the whole of the bike industry.
Later that afternoon, Jon removed his post, and apologised on Chocolate Foot. However as soon as he got home from work, he withdrew the apology by telling everyone on the Chocolate Foot Forum what had happened, in doing so opening up a big can of worms.
I contacted Jon, the owner of Chocolate Foot and Jon's boss on Wednesday morning, simply because these are the three people involved with the incident. I stated that I wasn't happy with what had happened and also that I'd expect the posts to be removed once more.
There are legalities involved with libelous posts on internet forums, and defamation is treat seriously in any court in the country, in fact bills are currently being drafted to make specific laws for these occasions. I feel that I did make it very clear that I was not considering action against certain insults and inaccuracies posted on Chocolate Foot, this would be a last resort and I would be happy having the offending posts removed.
What is forgotten is that I made every effort to justify my side of the argument, and have done so on more than one occasion before, I have never hid anything, and only told the truth in the matter. I've never actually tried to sell to anyone on your Chocolate Foot, or posted anything remotely commercial, despite what other comments have been made in the past.
I do realise that speaking to Jon's boss was not the best thing to do, however I must stress that I never asked to speak to his boss either.
So in conclusion, I am sorry to Jon for inadvertedly causing trouble for him at work, and invite anybody to raise any issue with me, either on a face to face basis, over email or telephone, before blowing things outs of proportion on an internet forum. Also I think that both sides of any story need telling and accepting for what they are.
I hope we can all put this behind us and move on...
Last edited by Transition J; 02-24-2006 at 12:51 AM.
We'll have to see if Jon accepts you almost getting him sacked.
I appreciate your attempt at an apology (no doubt more commercial driven than heartfelt though) but Jon is a good friend of mine so as I said I'll see what he says.
I'll hang fire, for now.
Last edited by sooty and jim; 02-23-2006 at 02:23 PM.
Guys, this is Kyle with Transition Bikes USA (the manufacturer, not the UK distributor). I just wanted to butt in here for a second and get our .02 cents in. While i am an advocate of these forums i do think we are all taking this a bit too far on these forums. It needs to be known (as alot of people don't know i'm sure) that this thread is dealing with a Transition Bikes importer in the UK and NOT Transition Bikes (the manufacturer). I will not pretend to defend either side on this issue as the original action was reprehensible and so is the banter that is following on the forums. At this point this is a personal matter between Jamie (UK Distributor) and the individual and it should be handled between the two. I fully understand that i will be lambasted for this statement so let it fly. i think those of you that have dealt with us in the past will attest to our character, so that being said, if you guys still feel like mudslinging is the only way you can sleep at night, fire away. don't expect another response from me on the forums though as i really don't like getting involved in this stuff. in this case i just feel i have to set it straight though.
anyway, i personally apologize for the grief that our UK distributor has caused for this said individual. it should in no way reflect how we handle our customer service in the states or how we intend to handle customer service in any of the countries we sell product in. That being said, i welcome anybody involved in this fiasco to email or call me directly and i'll further extend the apology in person.
Thank you for responding Kyle.
As I've said on the 'I'm telling my boos on you" thread
I truly believe this. You do seem like guys who just want to make something for people to enjoy and I don't feel that other than for mis-judging the calibre of the person you have representing you in the UK you have anything to apologise for, although you guys can't really be held at fault for someone who it seems has a rather unique take on customer relations.
I'm not even sure action by Kevin and Kyle from Transition US will cool this situation which is a shame as they seem like fairly rounded guys with a similar outlook on life to many of those who have been inflamed by this incident. They make a good product (although over-priced when compared to importers in other EU member states) but it seems they may have chosen a poor representative for UK sales.
You make a good product and I have never told people not to consider Transition frames, just to consider buying them from other European sources where they will be a) better value and b) no doubt sold to you by someone with a few more scruples.
I have never meant this to show your company or product in a bad light, indeed I actually pointed out that this was advice for potential UK Transition owners.
Once again thank you for responding. Hopefully something will come of all this and my friend will be satisfied enough to call off the dogs.
Thanks for the reply guys. I've got no bad blood for anybody in this case. i just want to make sure we resolve this to where all parties are happy. if that means i've gotta send you guys some free stuff i'll do it. just let me know how i can make this right for you. i understand your frustration regarding pricing in the UK. It is something that we in the USA care about immensely, as our mission is to provide high quality, high VALUE products to all the regions we sell to. all i can really tell you is that this is something we are constantly working on to make a better value for our UK customers. I understand that in this world economy you can choose where to shop so by all means do your homework and do what works best for you. in the end this, in part, makes free markets work.
Keep in mind, we're 2 guys in the USA running Transition Bikes and a huge part of what makes us do what we do is customer feedback. we're totally open to it and use it daily so feel free to share.
NOTE FROM GREGG, MTBR Site Manager:
Thank you Kyle for taking the time to post the official word from the manufacturer.
I believe that this thread has come full circle and in the interest of moving on, I am now locking it.
Last edited by gregg; 02-28-2006 at 08:26 AM.
Big ups to you Kyle for coming on here and defending Transition Bikes. I just don't think it was needed. No-one, I think, is getting at Transition.
There really aren't words to sum up what I think of the UK importer though. I don't care if the pricing policy is right or wrong - taking the course of action he did was stupid. I really hope the actions of one person in your extended organisation doesn't have long term ramifications.
Good luck to Transition Bikes - I'm all in support of the smaller manufacturers doing what most of us dream of - living a dream.
Believe me when I say that I am truly sorry for speaking to Jon's boss, it really was never my intention to get Jon in trouble, however I realise that I was very wrong to even call Jon, even though I only wanted to sort the issue out between ourselves, I should have thought harder and realised that his boss would be concerned with what was happening.
I also did not mean to put Transition in this situation and will make sure that it will not happen again, the guys in the US work very hard indeed and to have their name dragged into this was unfair.
Jon, I extend my hand out to apologise to you for the upset I may have caused, I hope you can accept this appology and that we can also recitify the situation in the best possible way for both concerned.
The reason I cannot post this up on Chocolate Foot is that I no longer have an account, but I am sure this will get to you.
Like Kyle says, if anyone would like to email me regarding this or any other issue you are very welcome, I'm certainly using this as a learning curve, because although my passion for the product and brand leads me to sometimes over react, I now realise that I should not get drawn into discussions like the one which lead to this situation.
Again I reitterate, genuinely that I am sorry and hope that all concerned can move onwards and upwards...
Originally Posted by Transition J
now lets get out there and ride some bikes.
I'm posting this in the evening whilst not at work . I'd like to point out I'm not a kid who's been shooting my mouth off, infact, i'm pushing thirty and am the sort of rider that transition is likely to sell to, i was simply vocal about the 56% price difference between the UK frame and the US. It since transpires I could save ¬£200 by buying the frame in Sweden (who have 20% VAT, ours is 17.5%). This to me seemed wrong and still does.
Cheers to my riding mates, and those on forums who i've never met but have kind of taken up my story and thanks to Kyle for the response to this thread, it was unexpected and big of you to do so.
I have nothing against Transition bikes, one morning I was finding out about test riding one, by the evening I'd had personal email and Internet access barred at work and had someone threating to sue me for libel. I can see how Jamie let his anger at my comments on pricing get out of hand and therefore make some 'interesting' decisions on the best way to deal with them.
I have received messages from others who have been threatened with legal action by him and I'm glad that he finally seems to be learning that people talk and getting threads removed from forums and more importantly contacting people's employers is just not the way to go about things.
The things I would like to put the situation right are pretty simple really.
I want Jamie to chill out a bit, mountain biking is fun, so is talking bikes and so is looking for a bike. He needs to learn that if one person doesn't like your product or your price or your service you need to take those opinions on board, however forcefully they are put. Think about things from the customers point of view and not your own. If that customer can't be won round then others will if you get things right. Stop threatening people with legal action, one of these days, you'll do it to the wrong person, you will lose and you will end up a very poor man.
There are DH races run at PORC in Kent, there was a massive mistake made here and another threat of legal action, I won't go into the details but the tale has already been forwarded to Transition. I would really like you to look into this and make sure that the lads who put so much hard work into this race series for no payment are sorted out.
I don't want anything for myself, that's not my style, and I think would make my friends efforts to get this noticed seem a little shallow.
Thankyou for the apologies, as far as I'm concerned this matter is over. I hope that the importers learn a valuable lesson here, and wish the two of you at Transition US the best of luck with living the dream.
If anyone from Transition would like to talk to me further on this you can email me through my profile.
I hope this can be the end of the matter, because obviously I have taken everything on board and I'm sorry it worked out this way.
I am chilled and believe me all I want to do is ride right now, rather than have the reprecushions this past week has dealt me, I have taken on board the pricing issues, and we are currently evaluating how we can lower the UK RRP, an announcement will be made on our homepage shortly.
Regarding the guys at PORC, this is a complete different issue, it seems the organiser believes we sent a free frame to the wrong person, although I simply sent the frame to the guy the organisers' assistant told me to. At the end of the day we offered their highest ranking amateur a free frame, and to the best of our knowledge, and knowledge supplied by the summer series organisers that's who we sent it to...
Libel - well sometimes, the best way of dealing with these things is not on the internet, as a lot of untruths are told, or certain sides of stories are represented more so than others. Libel is notoriously difficult to prove, anyway and maybe instead of letting the red mist ensue, I should have dealt with the whole situation in a very different manner.
I hope we can close this matter on decent terms now, I realise where I made a mistake and hope that I didn't get you in to too much trouble.
Here's too having a laugh, rather than taking this industry far too seriously! Sorry sometimes I am guilty of that, not any longer though!
Sounds good Jamie, I hope you keep it up.
Perhaps you can talk to Kyle about the PORC series, you really want lads like that on your side, I personally feel that some discussion should be entered into with the organiser direct, to sort some sort of goodwill gesture. Perhaps something for one of the race winners of their current optimistically named summer series.
The reason I feel like this is that I know the effort that Alvar and the boys have put in, has transformed PORC and made it a viable riding spot for DH and FR, their course there even inspired me to enter my first DH race.
No need to go into details here, I'd just like to hear at some point that they feel ammends have been made.