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  1. #1
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    XCL , what are similar suspension designs?

    Just looking up the lineage of my new XCL---- I see a few bikes that look similar ( Nicolai?) Hoping someone could fill me in.


    thx!


    cz

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    Titus Motolite

  3. #3
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    Jamis Dakar is about as far back as you'll go on this.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Jamis Dakar is about as far back as you'll go on this.
    look again...

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    Let me guess, Chumba invented that too, hoo hoo.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Let me guess, Chumba invented that too, hoo hoo.
    XCL runs a different version of the horst link and i believe Chumba is the only company in the US who doesnt have to pay Specialized for the Horst patent... So in a way... YES


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    Anyway, the Jamis Dakar was the first of those designs.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Anyway, the Jamis Dakar was the first of those designs.
    lol....maybe if you get all your information from reading magazine ads...there are a few companies that used the mcpherson strut before that model existed...mostly small frame builders (at the time) who probably didn't have huge advertising budgets..
    Last edited by CHUMBAevo; 10-17-2008 at 07:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    lol....maybe if you get all your information from reading magazine ads...there are a few companies that used the mcpherson strut before that model existed...mostly small frame builders (at the time) who probably didn't have huge advertising budgets..
    That's not a mac strut suspension. THe moment a swing link was put in, it was not a mac strut. The moment the racer X got a swing link, it was no longer a mac strut.

    I don't read magazines. In a Mac Strut setup, the strut becomes a suspension member that replaces some other members, with the bad part being that it accepts side loads readily. In the bike application, as well as in the car, the rates are controlled pretty much by the shock and remaining linkage, while an intermediate swing link changes the characteristics, though removing much of those side loads (which is a good thing).

    I also don't listen to percussive, like most here don't. He makes Chumba look bad. Tell him to tone it down.

    So instead of giggling, how about speaking of the unnamed companies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    That's not a mac strut suspension. THe moment a swing link was put in, it was not a mac strut. The moment the racer X got a swing link, it was no longer a mac strut.

    I don't read magazines. In a Mac Strut setup, the strut becomes a suspension member that replaces some other members, with the bad part being that it accepts side loads readily. In the bike application, as well as in the car, the rates are controlled pretty much by the shock and remaining linkage, while an intermediate swing link changes the characteristics, though removing much of those side loads (which is a good thing).

    I also don't listen to percussive, like most here don't. He makes Chumba look bad. Tell him to tone it down.

    So instead of giggling, how about speaking of the unnamed companies?
    Ok - now how did you conclude adding a swinglink changes the terminology? I guess now you're also the authority on naming suspension designs? Also -- about toning it down -- maybe you should look at the rafter in your own eye rather than the splinter in your brothers? While I appreciate that you might enjoy debate -- many of us -- including myself, don't come to the forum to argue. Is this how you talk to people in person?
    Last edited by CHUMBAevo; 10-18-2008 at 08:33 AM.
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    No, I don't speak to people like this in person. Same question applies to you. Do you ask people in real life if they act like such and such on an internet forum where debate is part of the game?

    I did not conclude that the swinglink changes a suspension from a mac strut to otherwise. THAT IS THE DEFINITION of a Mac Strut design. In a car, you have a choice between the so-called double wishbone or short-long arm suspension, or you can have a lower control arm with a strut acting as the upper, simply put. However, with the SLA, you have to beef up the body to accept the forces acting on it in different points.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    No, I don't speak to people like this in person. Same question applies to you.

    I did not conclude that the swinglink changes a suspension from a mac strut to otherwise. THAT IS THE DEFINITION of a Mac Strut design. In a car, you have a choice between the so-called double wishbone or short-long arm suspension, or you can have a lower control arm with a strut acting as the upper, simply put. However, with the SLA, you have to beef up the body to accept the forces acting on it in different points.
    Many concepts, similar designs, are borrowed from the motorcycle/car industry -- does that mean that the same definition holds the exact same meaning across the car/motorcycle/and bike industries? In my experience - often times, there can be varying difference in the terminology as the applications are obviously different.
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    Then why call it a mac strut if it's not a mac strut, which came from the automotive industry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Then why call it a mac strut if it's not a mac strut, which came from the automotive industry?
    JC at it again
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    Also -- about toning it down -- maybe you should look at the rafter in your own eye rather than the splinter in your brothers?
    Have you read the latest review of the F5.

    The moment you lay your eyes on a fully built F5, you just go in awe. Every detail which goes into the frame is just amazing from the swingarm, to the motolink to the gussets. Truly a work of art. And then when you get on one, the geometry is just so dialed that it doesnt really take anything to get used to it. It just feels down right.

    The F5 lets you rail corners with ease and when you need to, you can kick the rear end out to get some drift if needed to change an angle. Simply amazing. The progressive rear end makes the bike feel virtually bottomless. All drops and jumps feel soft and make you wonder what you worried about in the first place... The geometry is also so dialed that it naturally makes you keep the bike nice and low on the jumps. The 8.5" of travel in the rear keeps this bike planted yet still feels lively in which you think of where you want to be and then BOOM, you're there. Simply amazing. The floater which comes with the bike also eliminates all brake jack and such. Braking in the rough is of no problem at all as the rear end remains insanely active. This is one amazing bike and does everything it was designed to do. And thats, go FAST.

    Being a full on DH race bike, this bike is still very freerideable. Throwing down some steez is easy and so natural with how lively it feels and as mentioned before about the progressive travel, doing big 20foot drops are of no problem...


    This site is based upon product review, and that ones a bit loaded. Granted some other reviews are not that informative, but "drifting different angles" WTF is that, mentioning the bike is freeridable? well I can peddle it to the Circle K, so it can be used as a road bike or for commuting? comparing an F5 to an Ibex Zone, ROTFLMAO. MrP did not do a 20' drop on that bike. If he did we would have seen pictures of it the next day, reguardless of if he made it or not.

    If he really road an F5 three months ago, he would have been pouring his kool-aid here the next day. Besides the point, PRODUCT USED: doesnt mean I took a spin on one at a demo day, 3 months is a down rite FALSE statement. You have your hands full Chumba, I am sure XD is a great guy, but his approach to a bike review is a bit slanted.

    Also does the floating brake come with the bike, or is it an option?
    Last edited by Ibex-dad; 10-19-2008 at 05:12 AM. Reason: Mods: How many other BS reviews are you gonna allow?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibex-dad
    Have you read the latest review of the F5.

    The moment you lay your eyes on a fully built F5, you just go in awe. Every detail which goes into the frame is just amazing from the swingarm, to the motolink to the gussets. Truly a work of art. And then when you get on one, the geometry is just so dialed that it doesnt really take anything to get used to it. It just feels down right.

    The F5 lets you rail corners with ease and when you need to, you can kick the rear end out to get some drift if needed to change an angle. Simply amazing. The progressive rear end makes the bike feel virtually bottomless. All drops and jumps feel soft and make you wonder what you worried about in the first place... The geometry is also so dialed that it naturally makes you keep the bike nice and low on the jumps. The 8.5" of travel in the rear keeps this bike planted yet still feels lively in which you think of where you want to be and then BOOM, you're there. Simply amazing. The floater which comes with the bike also eliminates all brake jack and such. Braking in the rough is of no problem at all as the rear end remains insanely active. This is one amazing bike and does everything it was designed to do. And thats, go FAST.

    Being a full on DH race bike, this bike is still very freerideable. Throwing down some steez is easy and so natural with how lively it feels and as mentioned before about the progressive travel, doing big 20foot drops are of no problem...


    This site is based upon product review, and that ones a bit loaded. Granted some other reviews are not that informative, but "drifting different angles" WTF is that, mentioning the bike is freeridable? well I can peddle it to the Circle K, so it can be used as a road bike or for commuting? comparing an F5 to an Ibex Zone, ROTFLMAO. MrP did not do a 20' drop on that bike. If he did we would have seen pictures of it the next day, reguardless of if he made it or not.

    If he really road an F5 three months ago, he would have been pouring his kool-aid here the next day. Besides the point, PRODUCT USED: doesnt mean I took a spin on one at a demo day, 3 months is a down rite FALSE statement. You have your hands full Chumba, I am sure XD is a great guy, but his approach to a bike review is a bit slanted.

    Also does the floating brake come with the bike, or is it an option?
    You should talk to the other guys who just got F5s or the ones who demoed it at the dirt demo day and are selling their Demos, Glory and etc... Also, you should not only post things you choose to post. In the list, i also put in Commencal Supreme and Spec Demo... As for 20 footers, yes i have done it before... It was also the picture in which i won photo of the month of may for DirtCartel btw... The pic i've got isnt on my F5, but yes, i've done it on the F5... Stop stirring the sh1t pot when you dont know sh1t...




    I never said it can be used for commuting and such though i have done it riding it around SF to get to the NWD9 premiere or to school... It does pedal well though for a DH bike. And yes, i do have my hands full... 9 classes, work, and weekends i'd rather be riding... My reviews might be a little slanted maybe to some. But those who have ridden bikes dont think so. Only those who have had some bad history with me like you and JC keep stirring the pot as dogonfr would put it...

    Yes, the F5 comes with the floating brake. It even says it on the website... Shows you how much you do your research if you cant even look for 5 minutes...

  17. #17
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    BS review of an advertisers bike - Sponsored and bias.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrpercussive
    ... As for 20 footers, yes i have done it before... It was also the picture in which i won photo of the month of may for DirtCartel btw...
    Not 20', and you didnt stick the landing. You take every oportunity to toot your horn, I've seen that picture in apx 10 other posts. It's not about you, it's about the integrity of this site.

    If you continue to pile up these BS reviews the site will be so top heavy with false information it will roll over into the depths of pinkbike. Keep it up sport.

    Please explain how you have 3 months experience on the bike.
    Last edited by Ibex-dad; 10-19-2008 at 08:13 AM. Reason: Mods: Lock it up, another BS review for one of your advertisers!!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibex-dad
    Not 20', and you didnt stick the landing. You take every oportunity to toot your horn, I've seen that picture in apx 10 other posts. It's not about you, it's about the integrity of this site.

    If you continue to pile up these BS reviews the site will be so top heavy with false information it will roll over into the depths of pinkbike. Keep it up sport.

    Please explain how you have 3 months experience on the bike.
    Lack of ID you really need to go find a life other then acting like a perv tracking down mrperc every where looking for love on the net, there are some good porn sites out there that should be more exciting then mrperc is, geezzz go wash yourself up after your mess.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibex-dad
    Have you read the latest review of the F5.

    The moment you lay your eyes on a fully built F5, you just go in awe. Every detail which goes into the frame is just amazing from the swingarm, to the motolink to the gussets. Truly a work of art. And then when you get on one, the geometry is just so dialed that it doesnt really take anything to get used to it. It just feels down right.

    The F5 lets you rail corners with ease and when you need to, you can kick the rear end out to get some drift if needed to change an angle. Simply amazing. The progressive rear end makes the bike feel virtually bottomless. All drops and jumps feel soft and make you wonder what you worried about in the first place... The geometry is also so dialed that it naturally makes you keep the bike nice and low on the jumps. The 8.5" of travel in the rear keeps this bike planted yet still feels lively in which you think of where you want to be and then BOOM, you're there. Simply amazing. The floater which comes with the bike also eliminates all brake jack and such. Braking in the rough is of no problem at all as the rear end remains insanely active. This is one amazing bike and does everything it was designed to do. And thats, go FAST.

    Being a full on DH race bike, this bike is still very freerideable. Throwing down some steez is easy and so natural with how lively it feels and as mentioned before about the progressive travel, doing big 20foot drops are of no problem...


    This site is based upon product review, and that ones a bit loaded. Granted some other reviews are not that informative, but "drifting different angles" WTF is that, mentioning the bike is freeridable? well I can peddle it to the Circle K, so it can be used as a road bike or for commuting? comparing an F5 to an Ibex Zone, ROTFLMAO. MrP did not do a 20' drop on that bike. If he did we would have seen pictures of it the next day, reguardless of if he made it or not.

    If he really road an F5 three months ago, he would have been pouring his kool-aid here the next day. Besides the point, PRODUCT USED: doesnt mean I took a spin on one at a demo day, 3 months is a down rite FALSE statement. You have your hands full Chumba, I am sure XD is a great guy, but his approach to a bike review is a bit slanted.

    Also does the floating brake come with the bike, or is it an option?
    From every review we've received from DIRT UK, Decline Mag, Mountain Bike Action, Australia Mountain Bike; feedback from national champions and everyday riders -- they have all been rave reviews. If you have such a problem with the reviews - why not demo the bike yourself and then make observations yourself instead of attacking people?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    From every review we've received from DIRT UK, Decline Mag, Mountain Bike Action, Australia Mountain Bike; feedback from national champions and everyday riders -- they have all been rave reviews. If you have such a problem with the reviews - why not demo the bike yourself and then make observations yourself instead of attacking people?
    So your stand is that it is acceptable to make false statements about the bike, and that is is OK to bring the validity of the information here down to the level of pinkbike?


    Dog: Didnt Versus ask you to stop doing the same thing? Running your mouth that is.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibex-dad
    So your stand is that it is acceptable to make false statements about the bike, and that is is OK to bring the validity of the information here down to the level of pinkbike?


    Dog: Didnt Versus ask you to stop doing the same thing? Running your mouth that is.
    That is far from what I said. What did he say that you are taking so much issue with? It's bicycles that we are talking about - they are supposed to be fun, remember? Take a deep breath and relax. You don't need to get so worked up.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    Ok - now how did you conclude adding a swinglink changes the terminology? I guess now you're also the authority on naming suspension designs? Also -- about toning it down -- maybe you should look at the rafter in your own eye rather than the splinter in your brothers? While I appreciate that you might enjoy debate -- many of us -- including myself, don't come to the forum to argue. Is this how you talk to people in person?
    Do you even know what you are talking about here?

    Amp B-3 was a mac-strut design.

    Amp B5 was a linkage-design.

    Both were horst links, only one was a mac-strut, because it didn't have a swing-link.

    Bottomline, know what you are talking about or don't try and pretend that everyone else is stupid.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpercussive



    :
    Call me crazy, but that does not look like a 20' drop.

    Here's a 12ft drop stolen from NSMB.com, and there are guys on their claiming it's less than that. It looks just a bit bigger than your 20ft drop....

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibex-dad
    So your stand is that it is acceptable to make false statements about the bike, and that is is OK to bring the validity of the information here down to the level of pinkbike?

    Read what he said "why not demo the bike yourself and then make observations yourself"


    Quote Originally Posted by Ibex-dad
    Dog: Didnt Versus ask you to stop doing the same thing? Running your mouth that is.
    Actually it was a now mod, there is more then what you think you read.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattP.
    Call me crazy, but that does not look like a 20' drop.
    There are many places to measure from and the debate will never end, that is a long drop from lip to landing on a steep and very narrow area, you should really see the approach that is possibly worse then the drop.
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