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  1. #1
    syc
    syc is offline
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    XACD - obnoxious?

    I wasn't going to post anything about this, but Porter is being really obnoxious and I thought I would share my experiences, as a warning for others.

    Originally, I was pretty excited about getting a custom Ti frame from XACD. The price seemed great. So I started working with Porter at XACD on a Ti frame spec. - Porter would occasionally come across as rude or sarcastic, but I figured that was the price for getting a good deal.

    After going back and forth a while and getting the spec for my ideal bike, I was about to send in my money, when I tracked down someone on a mailing list who had spec'd almost the exact same bike, about 2 years ago and ordered a run of them made.

    I sent him email asking about his experiences, originally only curious about the tubing spec, because I wanted a very compliant ride. Here's what he told me:
    Hi Steve- No, I never did figure it out. I sold the frame. It cracked
    pretty severely within the first few months the new owner had it, on
    the chainstays on both sides. I ended up working out a deal for repair
    by a local Colorado titanium builder, but it wasn't cheap. Yes,
    could've been the fork, that's a possibility. I'm still not 100%
    convinced it was just the stiffness. Maybe it was something else, but
    I just didn't like how it rode. Harsh. Weird, given the large tires.

    Let me just chime in with some unsolicited advice- in my experience,
    the XACD stuff is absolute crap. Just about every order I made had
    SOMETHING wrong with it... headtube out of spec (both too small and
    too big happened frequently), brake bridge in the wrong place,
    seatpost size off, or what was sent was not what I asked for. So,
    advice #1- get something else. I sold a couple of dozen of their
    frames, and had three as my personal bikes. I replaced the road bike
    with a Romulus, the mountain bike with a Waltworks, and the touring
    bike (in question) with an old Fat Chance and I am MUCH happier with
    these bikes. If there is anything wrong with your XACD frame, Porter
    will deny it. Flat out deny it. Nope, it's fine. Never mind what it
    measures, it's fine. If you can budget in buying TWO of his frames,
    you might have a fair shot at getting ONE decent one. Seriously. And
    the one decent one will still have a off-sized seatpost. I used 27.2
    posts (it was supposed to be this size) and they always slipped unless
    you totally reefed on the bolt. I think 27.4 might be too big- I never
    tried one. I think he specced his frames with a 27.4 ID there, saying
    that was correct for 27.2. I think this might have just been because
    those were the tubes he had and he didn't have to do any reaming.

    If you STILL gotta go with XACD, make sure you specify absolutely
    EVERYTHING. Don't assume any measurements will be standard or OK or
    what you want. This includes head tube ID, seatpost ID (as stated),
    brake bridge placement, water bottle placement- everything you can
    think of.
    So I decided to cool off and think about it some more, maybe order the frame through one of the companies that sell rebranded XACD frames, so that I would be covered in case the frame had issues.

    Porter, as expected, followed up after a while and asked me what the deal was. Here's his reponse to my email:
    Hi Sir:
    About you said these:
    Hello Porter,
    I was ready to buy the frame, however I spoke with another
    customer of yours, who ordered many frames of the same type and he
    told me that he had 50% of the frames with problems. One frame cracked
    at both chainstays, and other frames would not hold a headset
    properly. He suggested that I buy 2 frames, so that one of them will
    be work right.
    I think your words is very ridiculous! Our frames never have
    any problem! And our all customers never tell us the problem
    you said! Why do you so said? Please you tell us the name
    of our customer you said! So we will can check it! I hope you
    don't make lie!


    XACD doesn't have guarantees,
    How can do you know we have not the guarantees?

    so I am worried that the frame will have problems, and I will not have any way to
    fix them. You of course tell me that the frame will be fine, but your other customer
    says that he had quality problems with the frame, and you ignored him.
    As above,again,your words is very ridiculous! Our all customers
    never tell us the problem you said! I think you are making lie!


    XACD does the frames for other companies, who handle guarantees.
    So maybe I will contact Habanero and work with them for a custom
    frame, then they can take care of any warrantee problems. Probably
    XACD will make the frame anyway, but I am willing to pay more money to
    have better support.
    However,I think you are a cheater! You cheated we made the frame
    drawing for you! You kill your trust,forever nobody can believe you!

    Regards!

    Porter
    I tend to be pretty up front, and tell people whats going because I'd rather have the issues get dealt with up front than dance around. However, with Porter, it seems to have resulted in personal attacks, because apparently, XACD only produces perfect frames, and anyone who says differently is a liar, a cheater and ridiculous.

    I would have been happy to just leave it at that, except that Porter seems to randomly send me obnoxious emails. He had a fit, and sent me about a half dozen emails like that one, and I figured he was just getting it out of his system. Looks like it wasn't out of his system because 10 days later, he's still venting:
    date Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:54 PM
    subject Re: hi

    Hi Cheater!
    Do you still want to cheat?

    Porter
    So maybe Porter will eventually chill out, but who knows, maybe he'll send me more hate mail. Mostly I'd just like to share with the online bike community that Porter claims his frame are perfect and never have issues, and that if you irritate him by saying otherwise, he's going to spam you and be obnoxious.

    I was actually prepared to reconsider XACD if I asked around and got some more positive responses, but Porter's immaturity and inability to accept any flaws in XACD workmanship tells me that if something went wrong, he'd just call me a liar, a cheater or ridiculous. He's never going to get a single penny of my money after this.

  2. #2
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    lol...i could not stop laughing

  3. #3
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    Heard the adage "You get what you pay for"?

    There ya go.
    No longer member of the bike industry nor society, so don't hassle me.

  4. #4
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    XACD Rocks!

  5. #5
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    I know a few Asian people who tend to be "trigger happy" when replying.... When I ordered my frame, Porter sometimes sounded obnoxious but I sincerely don't think he was trying to be mean in any way. He is certainly not 100% fluent in written english... I wouldn't let that get in the way of getting yourself a great Ti frame for a very decent price.... I'm a happy customer.

    Johnnydrz

  6. #6
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    I've got a XACD

    I ride a Ti 29er. Just got it a month ago or so.
    Porter was great all along, and the frame is amazing.
    Geometry is spot on, just like I asked for.
    The build quality seems great and the welds are flawless.
    After seeing my bike a friend ordered one too, and his also turned out great.
    And most amazing is the price, you really can't get any custom Ti (or even steel) frames for this price.
    I'm another a happy customer.

  7. #7
    Squalor
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    I bought a 29er frame a fork from XACD back in 2004. Dealt with Porter. Frame rode great. Fork was really, really flexy but rode nicely. Frame and fork together was just too much flex. I weigh 150lbs.

    Traded fork. Frame broke. Another MTBR dude bought the broken frame from me for a song and welded it up. I think he still has it.

    My seattube was not the right size. 27.2 slipped. Used a 27.4 Thomson and climbing chalk and it stayed put after I replaced their stock TI clamp (junk) with a sturdy Surly constrictor.

    All in all...I would not order another. I would save my money and buy a Curtlo or a Waltworks if custom is necessary, or just get a Karate Monkey. I bought a KM in 2003 and it has been the bike dollars I have ever spent.

    Good Luck

    LP

    Bike when first built:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by syc
    I wasn't going to post anything about this, but Porter is being really obnoxious and I thought I would share my experiences, as a warning for others.

    Originally, I was pretty excited about getting a custom Ti frame from XACD. The price seemed great. So I started working with Porter at XACD on a Ti frame spec. - Porter would occasionally come across as rude or sarcastic, but I figured that was the price for getting a good deal.

    After going back and forth a while and getting the spec for my ideal bike, I was about to send in my money, when I tracked down someone on a mailing list who had spec'd almost the exact same bike, about 2 years ago and ordered a run of them made.

    I sent him email asking about his experiences, originally only curious about the tubing spec, because I wanted a very compliant ride. Here's what he told me:


    So I decided to cool off and think about it some more, maybe order the frame through one of the companies that sell rebranded XACD frames, so that I would be covered in case the frame had issues.

    Porter, as expected, followed up after a while and asked me what the deal was. Here's his reponse to my email:


    I tend to be pretty up front, and tell people whats going because I'd rather have the issues get dealt with up front than dance around. However, with Porter, it seems to have resulted in personal attacks, because apparently, XACD only produces perfect frames, and anyone who says differently is a liar, a cheater and ridiculous.

    I would have been happy to just leave it at that, except that Porter seems to randomly send me obnoxious emails. He had a fit, and sent me about a half dozen emails like that one, and I figured he was just getting it out of his system. Looks like it wasn't out of his system because 10 days later, he's still venting:


    So maybe Porter will eventually chill out, but who knows, maybe he'll send me more hate mail. Mostly I'd just like to share with the online bike community that Porter claims his frame are perfect and never have issues, and that if you irritate him by saying otherwise, he's going to spam you and be obnoxious.

    I was actually prepared to reconsider XACD if I asked around and got some more positive responses, but Porter's immaturity and inability to accept any flaws in XACD workmanship tells me that if something went wrong, he'd just call me a liar, a cheater or ridiculous. He's never going to get a single penny of my money after this.

    I agree with you. Porter is rude and abnoxious and not very customer service oriented. I'm not gonna go into details right now until I receive my frame because they have my money but to eveybody considering buying a frame from XACD might want to think twice.

  9. #9
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    Way back in the day...

    I had XACD (this was well before I built frames) make me a run of rigid forks. Every single one (I think we had 8 or 9) broke within 6 months. I was of course pretty upset, and tried to get them to warranty the darn things, and I still remember Porter's response:
    "We cannot make guarantee because we are not sure you are proper use."

    Ok, broken English aside, that was funny because, well, they were mountain bike forks. We went mountain biking on them. They broke. Not sure how much more properly we could have used them...

    Porter did email me for months afterwards with bizarre questions and implied threats. A very strange dude.

    You get what you pay for, and IMO XACD isn't worth your time or money. If you're poor and/or a cheapskate, get a steel bike from a reputable builder/manufacturer and go ride.

    -Walt

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt
    If you're poor and/or a cheapskate, get a steel bike from a reputable builder/manufacturer and go ride.

    -Walt
    Best advice ever

  11. #11
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    I have had a few dealings with Porter , i bought some ti discs of them to try, they were not that cheap and the od wasnt concentric with the rest of the machining,, and needed modifying before thay could be used,, said it was impossible to be wrong,,

    however i did get my estay 29er built with them and to be honest they couldnt have been more helpfull with the many changes and adapting to the way i wanted to build a bike ,, quality is great ( i havnt broken it yet ) but i did over build it by specing all straight gauge tubes the machining on my own design dropouts was great ,
    XACD was the only company i could find to build what i wanted,, Lynsky would have done it but wanted an order for 15 in advance ,,
    I am going back to xacd for the next prototype and wouldnt hesitate to recommend them but you have to be prepared to work with Porter and his excentric way,,
    but the guy or girl who does the drawings really knows their stuff

  12. #12
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    take a look at this site for some bikes custom made by xacd

    http://www.spanner.org.uk/

  13. #13
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    Reputation: Pooh Bear's Avatar
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    XACD is a great no-no! I had dealings with "Porter" and they were not pleasant. However the custom fork I ordered was great and didn't break.

    But there were other issues with seat posts. Funny thing is: When you order a frame which should take a 27,2mm seat post usual 27,2mm seat posts slip. But when you order a 27,2mm seat post by XACD it won't fit in your [insert other manufacturer] frame which should take a 27,2mm seat post. Go figure.

    I measured 27,3mm diameter in 2 of 3 seat posts I ordered back then. Just 1 was usable.

    The one seat post I used went into a Rocky Mountain Ti Bolt of 1994. The post bent in the middle of the 3rd ride. When I told "Porter" about this he(?) told me the frame was manufactured wrong and I should send the frame in for them to inspect. When I denied this I was marked "cheater" and "liar" and so on.
    Even two years after this I still received emails by him. And he has several emailaddresses of which every single one went onto my spam list.

  14. #14
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    Im currently in process of gettin a custom commencal absolut 4x ti made from Porter. So far,
    he's been very helpful. Added some gussets here and there. Lets see how good the frame is...

  15. #15
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    This thread is hilarious. American made steel frame > cheap Chi-Ti frame every day of the week. Hell, if you don't need custom, save up a few extra pennies and wait for a good deal on a used Moots. They show up from time to time for very decent prices.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdrunk View Post
    This thread is hilarious. American made steel frame > cheap Chi-Ti frame every day of the week. Hell, if you don't need custom, save up a few extra pennies and wait for a good deal on a used Moots. They show up from time to time for very decent prices.
    I agree with you, steel is always overlooked because it's not elite enough, but the fact remains some of the best riding bikes are steel. A custom steel frame isn't all that expensive, and sooooo worth it. I own a lot of bikes, but my favorite is my custom steel SS (True Fabrication), no bike rides like it.
    Draft College Republicans

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