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  1. #51
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    Much underesitimated bikes- their single speeds like solo-one Se and softails capture the heart of much more expensive bikes and make them available to the masses with NO loss in quality for the average rider. Usually the only penalty will be about 1/2 a pound.

    I've owned a KHS team crmo hardtail and it was the lightest bike I've built. sold it to belated regret for a Rocky Mountain Hammer - no probs but the KHS felt more resiliant and was actually lighter by mor ethan 1/2 a lb , doh!
    hope they get back into high end steel frames one day.

    I've just bought the 2008 KHS XC-204- $999 complete here in Aust ( $600 of rrp!!! ) and am planning on replacing my heckler with it and putting change into some upgrades and kitchen renovations - for brownie points.
    Planned upgrades
    rp2- shock/ older TALAS plus parts I have - DT swiss wheel set, thomson stem/ carbon bars, crossmark tyres, time atac pedals

    KHS are good solid bikes equal to Norco, and Giant at least

  2. #52
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    I own a KHS AM2000 year 2005,i`m just a beginner, I just want to ask which hole should i fix my shock to set it as 6" travel, because i saw there was 3 hole on there.

  3. #53
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    Nice bikes. I liked their hardtails, but for some reason, I don't see them much like I used to.

  4. #54
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    The one closest to seat tube makes it 6". I had 05' AM1000 - great frame, not the lightest in its class but very robust. My wife still rides it in 4" version.

  5. #55
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    KHS travel setting

    You have it backwards Dagger. The hole farthest from the seat tube is the 6" travel setting. you can see the difference in the the rocker angle, and you can also measure the height of the bottom bracket. The static bottom bracket height of my AM is 13.75" in the hole farthest from the seat tube, and 13.25" in the one closest. The bike is not going to have a taller BB height in the shorter travel setting.

  6. #56
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    Lizard, so i should fix the shock at the farthest hole from the seat tube to become 6" travel setting right? My stock shock was 7.5" x 2". If i change to 6" travel setting, do i need to change my shock? Currently my shock is fixed at the hole that closest to the seat tube. You can see at the image.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    • File Type: jpg 1.JPG (100.0 KB, 1139 views)
    Last edited by gavin_siew; 12-17-2008 at 10:08 PM.

  7. #57
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    Well, check your travel again because I'm sure about that adjustment Really, it's elementary school math - lever shoulders ratio. We have fixed 50mm of shock travel on front rocker shoulder (X mm length) and, say, 100mm of travel on rear shoulder (fixed Y mm length).
    X/Y = 50/100 =>
    X = (Y*50)/100 = 0.5*Y
    Now we want 150mm in back.
    Z/Y = 50/150 =>
    Z = (Y*50)/150 = 0.33*Y
    Thus front rocker shoulder should be shorter to achieve longer travel in rear.
    gavin_siew, you're doing right, you're in 6" now, no need to change shock. Keep in mind though, in 6" setting your shock spring will feel softer than in 4"

  8. #58
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    KHS shock settings

    You should be ok with your fox shock, although you may want to give yourself a little more preload, as the rocker has greater leverage at the the # 3 position. I had a Roco air on my AM and I had to run it upside down, because the air valve wouldn't clear the rocker, but your piggy back on the Fox looks like it runs right between the rockers. The AM is a great bike, Here is a pic of mine
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaggerMadd
    Well, check your travel again because I'm sure about that adjustment Really, it's elementary school math - lever shoulders ratio. We have fixed 50mm of shock travel on front rocker shoulder (X mm length) and, say, 100mm of travel on rear shoulder (fixed Y mm length).
    X/Y = 50/100 =>
    X = (Y*50)/100 = 0.5*Y
    Now we want 150mm in back.
    Z/Y = 50/150 =>
    Z = (Y*50)/150 = 0.33*Y
    Thus front rocker shoulder should be shorter to achieve longer travel in rear.
    gavin_siew, you're doing right, you're in 6" now, no need to change shock. Keep in mind though, in 6" setting your shock spring will feel softer than in 4"
    Elementary math or not, you can visually see the top of the rockers angle toward the main triangle in the hole closest to the seat tube. This indicates that the rocker is being pulled into its travel in that setting, whereas the top of the rocker angles away from the main frame in the hole farthest from the seat tube ie the longest travel setting. Explain to me why you have an increase in Bottom Bracket height from the hole closest to the hole farthest? That is a direct indication of travel increase, and it doesn't make any sense for a bike to have a taller BB height in a shorter travel setting.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizardfuel72
    Elementary math or not
    Elementary math can't be beaten, you know

    1stly, can you tell if horizontal lines are straight of wavy on this picture?

    I imply, did you actually measure BB height in both 4" and 6" positions or you just eyeballed them?

    2ndly, BB height has nothing to do with indication of travel. For instance, Intense M6 and 6.6 have travel of 9" and 6.6" respectively but the same BB height of 13.75" You should measure travel by removing the spring from the shock and measuring, say, distance from rear rocker pivot to seat in fully compressed and uncompressed state. But seriously, spare yourself a headache, believe my word, I've done it before

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaggerMadd
    Elementary math can't be beaten, you know

    1stly, can you tell if horizontal lines are straight of wavy on this picture?

    I imply, did you actually measure BB height in both 4" and 6" positions or you just eyeballed them?

    2ndly, BB height has nothing to do with indication of travel. For instance, Intense M6 and 6.6 have travel of 9" and 6.6" respectively but the same BB height of 13.75" You should measure travel by removing the spring from the shock and measuring, say, distance from rear rocker pivot to seat in fully compressed and uncompressed state. But seriously, spare yourself a headache, believe my word, I've done it before
    As I stated in the first message, there is a half inch difference between the two, 13.25" to 13.75". last time I checked there isn't anyone who can eyeball an exact measurement! Who the hell is talking about horizontal lines, I simply stated that you can visually see the rocker getting pulled into its travel in the hole closest to the seat tube, which would indicate shortening of travel. This is probably one of the reasons why the industry has gone away from adjustable travel bikes, to avoid all this confusion.

  12. #62
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    I'm sorry, I was just making fun about eyeballing things
    Again, BB height is mainly irrelevant to travel. Yes, usually bikes with more rear travel tend to have higher BB but it's not a strict law. In this particular case I think it's just a little skrewup of KHS engineers or whoever designed their frames. KHS AM frames are great regardless.

  13. #63
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    Here's mine.



    XC004 with Marzocchi Marathon XC fork
    Rock Shick SID Dual air w/ rebound
    Shimano m486 hydros
    Shimano Alivio shifters.
    Last edited by the-one1; 04-12-2009 at 10:04 PM.

  14. #64
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    My bad for bringing up an old thread but I think I'm gonna pick up an xc frame soon and wanted to know what size seatpost it took. Thanks.

  15. #65
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    31.6 seat post on the Xc models

  16. #66
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    well - my xc-204 was sold in the mistaken belief I no longer wanted a full susser. after all the upgrades etc ( revelations and rp3 shock , thomson stem , BB7's ) I sold it to my brother in law
    But joy - 2008 run out picked up a XCT -555 for $1800 ozi dollars RRP of about $2400 It's a Large which means a 618mm top tube but I'm confident I can make it work its only 13mm or 1/2 in longer than my xc-204 large top tube and standover.

    If not for the 15mm thru axle i'd have considered changing the forks. maybe later to a a revelation or or something.

    http://www.khsbicycles.com/03_xct_555_08.htm

  17. #67
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  18. #68
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    KHS XC Team

    found a great deal on a used 2008 XC Team frame... wasn't familiar with them and read thru this whole thread. Sounds like everyone that has one loves it, but there also seem to be a lot of broken frames mentioned which makes me wonder if it's the right frame for me, cuz I'm not a small guy (6'2 & 230lbs) - any thoughts from the Clydes out there?

  19. #69
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    cannot tell you anything about the Team frame but I know that you can get a 604 from Bob's for $450. The geo looks a bit different on the Team so I cannot say anything for how it compares to the ride of the 604. No broken frame here and I'm about 190 lb. It took me a while to get the bike set up properly but I am quite happy with it now. If I were you, I might pick up a 604 and an rp23 for $650 for both new w/ the warranty. Hope this helps.

  20. #70
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    thanks for the suggestion - but can you tell me which Bob's you are referring to? I did a quick Google search, and it appears that there are lots of bike shops named Bob's, including one here in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area...

  21. #71
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    here is their site but they only have the 204 in stock. I would only offer them $400 max, maybe even $375 for it. the only diff between the 604 and 204 is the shock. Put an RP23 (6.5" x 1.5") and you have a really sweet ride for less than $650.

    http://bobs-bicycles.com/catalog.cfm?catalogId=39

  22. #72
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    there are also some on ebay too.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro
    there are also some on ebay too.
    The ones on ebay are sold by Bob-bicycles.com also. Unless they are used though.

  24. #74
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    I'm confused about the proliferation of cutomer servce woes on this site, the only time I've ever contacted a manufacturer was to confirm the origin of a used Rocky mountain thin air frame I had once. Shouldn't your LBS or online retailer be handling costomer service stuff for you(the buyer?). Sorry, a bit of ranting there.
    As to KHS, to this day, my favorite bike was my '96 KHS alite 3000. Great geometry, pretty nice components, and at the time they were a bit chaeper for comparably spec'ed bikes from the other guys. I'd love to get one of the '08 xc204's that wheelworld has on closeout, but I don't know anyone well enough in that area to have them purchase for me. I've seen some ebay deals lately though so perhaps I'll go that route. I've always been happy to ride the less common bikes as well.

  25. #75
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    you can get them from bob's bikes online too. I'd skip the 204 unless you're prepared to replace the rear shock because its rubbish. the 604 is worth the few extra dollars.

  26. #76
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    Got an XC-604 in the new year and loving it.
    NOt been out on an MTB in umpteen years and after looking what i could get for the money, the KHS won hands down.

    Taken up on Parkamoor in the Lake District.



    and here's the view over to Coniston from Parkamoor.



    Was on a road bike till Summer of last year, but was getting to uncomfortable for my arms and due to "possible impending diagnosis of MS" wanted something i could get out and enjoy the scenery on.

    Steve, the KHS man in the UK is brilliant to deal with and the bike is superb, so much so, one of the lads at work tried my 604 and ended up getting one him self. He's going to be riding it round this event in BC

  27. #77
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    I don't think its in the forums because its an overseas crafted bike.

    I love mines though.
    the simplicity and Taiwan make of the bike is what makes them inexpensive and unpopular.

    I do think if they made better paint jobs , it will attract alot of more people.. the colour of my bike kind of stinks, I wish it was Matte black, a dark red, or glossy black and white


  28. #78
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    BTW, any one know the specs on the shock mounting hardware for the xc604? Mine is a 2007... I know that I can just call them to get it but hoping to fit my new shock today.

  29. #79
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    I just got my frame and I think the color is nice, although a little darker than I thought it would be. Can't wait to build it up tomorrow.

  30. #80
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    Stay away from the older model xc-904R bikes. My frame cracked in two places the other day. I do not ride hard and no big jumps either. Loved the bike though, but probably not going to buy a new one as they only have a 2 year warranty and it does not look like they have reinforced the newer model frames
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Thoughts on KHS bikes-dsc01068.jpg  

    Thoughts on KHS bikes-dsc01069.jpg  

    Thoughts on KHS bikes-dsc01070.jpg  


  31. #81
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    wow, what year is that 604? i don't know much about this stuff but you may have tighten the derailleur collar too much.

    it def does look like a defective tube thou, and the tube looks super thin!
    Last edited by MTBiker2477; 04-24-2010 at 07:15 AM.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBiker2477
    wow, what year is that 604? i don't know much about this stuff but you may have tighten the derailleur collar too much.

    it def does look like a defective tube thou, and the tube looks super thin!

    It's actually the higher end 904R, not the 604R. The 604 is a little heavier so maybe it does not have the same problems

  33. #83
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    KHS=Motobecane

    I'm surprised noone has brought this up. A lot of the KHS frames are the same ones used by Motobecane, here are two perfect examples:KHS Tucson and Motobecane Fantom 29Pro SL

    Also the KHS XC Team frame and the Motobecane Fantom Team frames look identical (except paint). The only difference is in the parts, and Bikesdirect supposedly has really good customer service.

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by unrooted
    I'm surprised noone has brought this up. A lot of the KHS frames are the same ones used by Motobecane, here are two perfect examples:KHS Tucson and Motobecane Fantom 29Pro SL

    Also the KHS XC Team frame and the Motobecane Fantom Team frames look identical (except paint). The only difference is in the parts, and Bikesdirect supposedly has really good customer service.

    Why I will never buy another KHS again.. meh...

  35. #85
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    Meh...they all come from the same factory anyway. Probably right next to the Trek warehouse.

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by unrooted
    I'm surprised noone has brought this up. A lot of the KHS frames are the same ones used by Motobecane, here are two perfect examples:KHS Tucson and Motobecane Fantom 29Pro SL

    Also the KHS XC Team frame and the Motobecane Fantom Team frames look identical (except paint). The only difference is in the parts, and Bikesdirect supposedly has really good customer service.
    I'll agree with you that the Tucson and Fantom 29 look very similar but the Team and Fantom are not the same frames. I'll also agree that a lot of the tubing is probably fabricated in the same factory.

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro
    I'll agree with you that the Tucson and Fantom 29 look very similar but the Team and Fantom are not the same frames. I'll also agree that a lot of the tubing is probably fabricated in the same factory.

    Any reasons??? They look exactly the same to me. KHS has never been known as a great company that does innovating stuff, so I'm pretty sure that Motobecane and KHS are using the same frames with different paint schemes. I'll stick to Motobecanes cause they cost a lot less and I know how to fix em myself.

  38. #88
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    re the xc series and moto fantom; the top tube on the motobecane isn't reinforced the same, the shock mount on the frame is different, etc.
    like I said, the tubing might be from the same stock but that is about it. and as far as suspension design, I'd take the KHS every day of the week. they don't innovate but the do license the Horst from Speci and they do a good job with their design.

    oh, btw, if you can work on one bike you can work on pretty much any bike.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro
    oh, btw, if you can work on one bike you can work on pretty much any bike.
    My point was that bike shops don't carry much value, except when I need a tube the day of a ride.

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by unrooted
    Also the KHS XC Team frame and the Motobecane Fantom Team frames look identical (except paint). The only difference is in the parts, and Bikesdirect supposedly has really good customer service.
    So you did not notice that one is FSR suspension, and another is not? And that KHS has a larger stroke shock?

  41. #91
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    Sorry to drag this thread back up, but what were you doing when that happened? I ride a xc-904r (only difference is mine has a Fox rear shock on it) and pictures like that concern me. Mine has relatively low miles as I've been primarily a roadie and tri-guy over the last few years, but have been getting on the trails more recently. Any warning signs I should look for? I've broken a lot of frames, but none failed catastrophically like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by wraydp
    It's actually the higher end 904R, not the 604R. The 604 is a little heavier so maybe it does not have the same problems

  42. #92
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    I did not see any warning signs but I was not looking for any either. I'm sure the frame was cracked prior to the day it broke as I was only 1/4 mile or so into my ride and I did not go over anything rough. Mine was a 2005 and I bought it used so I'm not sure how much the bike had been ridden but it looked like it had quite a few miles on it when i got it. Aluminum can only take a certain number of stress cycles before it fails. Kind of like twisting a paper clip and it breaking easily. Mine must have just reached that point. What year is your bike?

  43. #93
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    I believe mine is an '04, I purchased it new as a clearance back in '07. It replaced a Mountain Cycle Zen which I cracked a chainstay on. I've broken 4 aluminum frames over the years and have been fortunate to catch them before anything major happened, usually I spot a crack or the frame feels flexy then upon inspection I find the damage. Although, I've still got an old Haro Escape team bike that has been going for almost 14 years now and it was ultralight (at the time) aluminum.

    Quote Originally Posted by wraydp
    I did not see any warning signs but I was not looking for any either. I'm sure the frame was cracked prior to the day it broke as I was only 1/4 mile or so into my ride and I did not go over anything rough. Mine was a 2005 and I bought it used so I'm not sure how much the bike had been ridden but it looked like it had quite a few miles on it when i got it. Aluminum can only take a certain number of stress cycles before it fails. Kind of like twisting a paper clip and it breaking easily. Mine must have just reached that point. What year is your bike?

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by wraydp
    I did not see any warning signs but I was not looking for any either. I'm sure the frame was cracked prior to the day it broke as I was only 1/4 mile or so into my ride and I did not go over anything rough. Mine was a 2005 and I bought it used so I'm not sure how much the bike had been ridden but it looked like it had quite a few miles on it when i got it. Aluminum can only take a certain number of stress cycles before it fails. Kind of like twisting a paper clip and it breaking easily. Mine must have just reached that point. What year is your bike?
    I noticed that people reported such failures on frames with this rocker configuration when using a locked out shock. Guess if you forget to unlock it and hit some serious bump it does put a whole lotta stress on the seattube in that spot. Maybe getting up to push on pedals has a similar effect. I guess mild platform would be preferable to a full lockout..

  45. #95
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    I can't believe I've missed this thread for so long. Anyhow, here's a pic of my KHS xc~304 that I built up a few years back. Recently swapped in the air shock and a few other odds and ends. New plans call for a cockpit upgrade.
    I'm not big-boned, I'm a Clyde.

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySlowRdr View Post
    thoughts conjure up a magazine ad campaign a couple years back that wasnt bad--their campaign in the brit mags was even better.
    Oh ya....I remember that ad campaign...yum I had an old KHS HT I bought at a pawn shop. I had no idea what I had there. It was really a damn good bike, but I thought it was just a cheapo dept store bike. I had never heard of KHS. The bike was beat. I took it away to college with me. We had a bike rack outside our dorm building, but do you think I bothered locking it up? Yep, it got stolen one drunken night, and a couple days later while walking across campus to class I found it laying there in the middle of the main courtyard. I was totally indifferent to that bike until that moment...I was so happy to have found my bike I took it right back and put it inside our dorm. Wish I still had it.

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