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  1. #1
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    Moots Rigor or Serotta TiMax?

    I think about buying a new titanium frameset. I almost have experience with the Moots and i really like it. But it seems to be more a frame for touring and long epic rides than xc racing. Is there anyone with riding experience with the Serotta TiMax? I live in germany and the price for the frames is quite the same here. Both have lifelong warranty, serrota offers custom geometry and custom finish and is lighter. The welds and total fabrication of the moots seems to be unbeatable. What would you say? I want to come to a decision between these two frames. Help would be great. Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Moots offers a custom program as well. I believe it is a 350.00 upcharge. They will make it as you want it. I visited the factory this past summer and am very impressed, so much so that I bought a Mooto-X YBB. Great company with excellent customer service.

    I cannot speak from personal experience re: Serotta, but have worked on many of their bikes and am duly impressed. I do not think you would go wrong either way

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    I used to own a Serotta road bike, and I am currently building up a Moots Rigormootis. I am more impressed with the quality of the Moots frame, but I really don't think you could go wrong either way. I prefer the Moots rear seatstay design over the Serotta, but that's just personal preference. The one cool thing about the Serotta is that you have all kinds of paint options, but if you're going with bare Ti, then I'd go with the Moots.

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    Thanks for your answers. But can someone tell me something about the riding character of the Serotta? Is it more a race frame? The Moots is in my opinion more balanced and not so direct/nervous in steering (with White Bros xc.8).
    How about the craftsmanship of Serotta frames? The appearance of the frame, also the welds are important for me. I know the Rigor and in that point itīs fantastic. But how about the TiMax?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by helmet
    can someone tell me something about the riding character of the Serotta? Is it more a race frame? How about the craftsmanship of Serotta frames? The appearance of the frame, also the welds are important for me. I know the Rigor and in that point itīs fantastic. But how about the TiMax?
    Since the TiMax is custom, I think it can be built for a variety of purposes including racing. I've never actually seen a TiMax in person, only the Serotta Fierte ti road frame I used to have. The welds on it were excellent. There are at least a couple of guys over on the Serotta forum that have TiMax's. You might want to check there.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by helmet
    Thanks for your answers. But can someone tell me something about the riding character of the Serotta? Is it more a race frame? The Moots is in my opinion more balanced and not so direct/nervous in steering (with White Bros xc.8).
    How about the craftsmanship of Serotta frames? The appearance of the frame, also the welds are important for me. I know the Rigor and in that point itīs fantastic. But how about the TiMax?
    Servus Helmet,

    you are referring to riding characteristics of an "off the shelf" frame, with stock geometry. Why dont you go for a custom frame?

    What do you want the bike for, xc race, marathon, touring? Do you want a stiffer rear end? How much stand over do you want? What sort of terrain do you ride? How much tyre clearance do you want? Do you climb a lot? Most good custom builders will be able to translate your desired riding characteristics/preferences into your perfect frame. That's something you wont get from an "off the shelf" frame!

    Yes, the welds on a Moots are perfect, but so too are the welds on my Thylacine (see pic) and my old Dean, and i'm sure that they will be top drawer on the Serotta too. Serotta to me is a firm that I associate with high-end road bikes, I have no idea what they are like at building mtb's. I however do think that they are a bit on the pricey side, and it could well be that you are paying for the "name" more than anything.

    I see from your previous posts that you are from "Minga", which is a coincidence because that's where I live !
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    Last edited by 20_bandh; 02-07-2007 at 10:36 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20_bandh
    Yes, the welds on a Moots are perfect, but so too are the welds on my Thylacine (see pic) and my old Dean, and i'm sure that they will be top drawer on the Serotta too. Serotta to me is a firm that I associate with high-end road bikes, I have no idea what they are like at building mtb's. I however do think that they are a bit on the pricey side, and it could well be that you are paying for the "name" more than anything.
    Serotta pricey? Think again:

    Serotta Ti Max: 2315 euro (this includes custom geometry, paint and butted tubes!)
    Moots rigor mootis: 2750 euro (custom is an additional 350 euro surcharge, no paint, straight gauge titanium)

    I`m not sure what Thylacine charges for a straight gauge frame (around 2300$ ?which doesn`t include shipping, tax and import duty)...but both Serotta and Moots have been around for ages and probably will be for the foreseeable future, something to keep in mind might warranty issues arise. Thylacine seems to do a nice enough job, but how have they been around and how long will they last. If Serotta made a custom staright gauge mtb frame it would presumably be well what the timax costs in any case considering the price of their straight gauge roadframes...
    just my 2 cents
    Last edited by madhatter; 02-08-2007 at 08:37 AM.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by madhatter
    Thylacine seems to do a nice enough job, but how have they been around and how long will they last.
    Warwick (the guy behind Thylacine) has been in the cycling industry for ages and isn't going anywhere soon. He is currently in the process of expanding Thylacine, and I can assure you he is in for the long haul.
    Last edited by Some Guy; 02-07-2007 at 06:22 PM.

  9. #9
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    I don't think you can go wrong with any of the builders you are talking about. I have an Eriksen that I just love. Kent started Moots back in the day and was simply wonderful to deal with in every way. Two thumbs up.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by madhatter
    Serotta pricey? Think again:

    Serotta Ti Max: 2315 euro (this includes custom geometry, paint and butted tubes!)
    Moots rigor mootis: 2750 euro (custom is an additional 350 euro surcharge, no paint, straight gauge titanium)

    I believe Thylacine currently charges 2300 euro for a straight gauge frame...Both Serotta and Moots have been around for ages and probably will be for the foreseeable future, something to keep in mind might warranty issues arise. Thylacine seems to do a nice enough job, but how have they been around and how long will they last. If Serotta made a custom staright gauge mtb frame it would presumably be well below the 2300 euro Thylacine charges in any case considering the price of their straight gauge roadframes...
    just my 2 cents
    2300€ for a Thylacine??, where did you get that figure from? Ok, it was last summer but I paid considerably less than that, and that was with shipping to Germany.

    "TiMax: $2,895 (price does not include taxes)"

    On Serottas website it quotes a ti max at 2895USD, excluding taxes. Where did you get 2315€ from? Does that figure include shipping to europe? That'll cost you around 200USD. Does it include local taxes? Does it include import duty into the EU?? Do the maths and it wont look so cheap!

    Warwick wont be going anywhere, he has just opened the first of many shops down under. Im sure we will be seeing a lot more of his work in the future.
    Last edited by 20_bandh; 02-07-2007 at 10:32 PM.

  11. #11
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    I am also curious as to the source of the Moots figures. MSRP for the Rigor is 2475 USD and the custom charge is 350 USD.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20_bandh
    2300€ for a Thylacine??, where did you get that figure from? Ok, it was last summer but I paid considerably less than that, and that was with shipping to Germany.

    "TiMax: $2,895 (price does not include taxes)"

    On Serottas website it quotes a ti max at 2895USD, excluding taxes. Where did you get 2315€ from? Does that figure include shipping to europe? That'll cost you around 200USD. Does it include local taxes? Does it include import duty into the EU?? Do the maths and it wont look so cheap!

    Warwick wont be going anywhere, he has just opened the first of many shops down under. Im sure we will be seeing a lot more of his work in the future.
    www.Serotta.de: PREIS (nur Rahmen, inkl. 16% MwSt.)
    - TiMax: € 2.315,- (inkl. MwSt.)

    (click on "producte" then on serotta and then on Timax...) So to anwser the questions you raised: yes it includes shipping, tax, importt duty etc. because it is via the official German Serotta distributor...granted the tax will increase from 16% to 19 % soon..
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiRyder
    I am also curious as to the source of the Moots figures. MSRP for the Rigor is 2475 USD and the custom charge is 350 USD.
    The official (rrp) price of the rigor mootis in Germany is: 2842 euro The following site has the for somewhat less (2795 euro) :http://www.bikeimperium.de/product_i...674bc6a70bf145
    As 20 bandh pointed out importing a frame from the us is associated with about 200 $ shipping, 16-19% VAT and import duty (I believe 15-20 % of the declared value)...
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  14. #14
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    double post
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20_bandh
    2300€ for a Thylacine??, where did you get that figure from? Ok, it was last summer but I paid considerably less than that, and that was with shipping to Germany.
    Can`t find the post I was referring so I might be inaccurate. In any case I recall Warwick mentioning (or was it yourself) that the price had increased to 2300$, add the shipping, the VAT and the import and there you are...In any case the German price for the Timax seems pretty sharp for a butted frame of high quality. In any case better than the complete rip-off Seven is in Europe...Just check their prices on the respective websites (serotta.de, sevencycles.de ) and you`ll see what I mean...
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by madhatter
    www.Serotta.de: PREIS (nur Rahmen, inkl. 16% MwSt.)
    - TiMax: € 2.315,- (inkl. MwSt.)

    (click on "producte" then on serotta and then on Timax...) So to anwser the questions you raised: yes it includes shipping, tax, importt duty etc. because it is via the official German Serotta distributor...granted the tax will increase from 16% to 19 % soon..
    Ok, then I take it back, the Ti-Max isnt that pricey after all when you go via the german distributor.

  17. #17
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    i have ridden several serrotta's over the years and everyone of them has been flawless. I have also ridden several Moots. Both are going to be top notch and both use a propriatry Ti tubeset. With what you are spending do the 'custom' option so you can get exactly what you want, unless you fit into one of the stock frames just right.

    If you like a painted frame vs the 'raw' Ti finish i would look more at the serrotta as they have a great paint option. But either one will over you a top notch ride expereince.You truly cannot go wrong with either option. But i would pick the Serrotta given the additions of VAT, Shipping etc..

    I am going to put this out there even know you have decided on 2 frames. Personally i like the Strong frames from Carl Strong better than both Serrotta and Moots,mostly because of communication on what "I" wanted out of my bike. He didn't just put some numbers together and tell me what i was going to get. He took my input, revised my design 3 times before we can to an agreement on what he was going to build. Waterford, Serrotta, Moots, IF and many others will not offer you that attention to detail. Have you talked/e-mail Carl about what it would cost to get a frame sent to Germany for you? I know he does ALOT of biz in Europe so maybe he has something worked out for our european freinds.

  18. #18
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    Thanks for all your answers!
    Iīm really sure to decide between these two frames, because i like their looks most. I thought about so many frames but i always come back to the Moots. The pro of the Serotta is just the weight and the custom option for a little less money.
    I will come to a decision the next days and let you know.

    @20_bandh: Yes, im living in munich. Are you also in the IBC forum?

  19. #19
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    I have posted over on the IBC board before, I however much prefer the boards here on mtbr.

    Good luck with your decision.

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