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  1. #1
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    Hayes Stroker Trail or Avid Juicy 7s??

    Ok, I can't take the Juicy 5s on the XCL anymore. Way too spongey and I've adjusted them almost all the way out. I ride MX bikes and road race motorcycles and like the instant feed and feel of brakes and the lever action. I understand profressive is sometimes a good thing, but I don't care for it...

    So, I have decided to look for something else. I have narrowed it down (based on what I can afford) to the Hayes Stroker Trail and the Avid Juicy 7s.

    I am leary of the Avids just because they are the same company and worry they are similar to the feel the 5s have. Although, buddies have stated they are much more solid and have better modulation...

    From what I have read with Hayes, they seem to fit the bill of what I want. I also rode a CDale (Sorry guys!!) and it had Hayes Strokers on it and I liked the lever feel and the way it had instant hit...

    If I go with Hayes, they also have smaller discs. I ran the 160 rear and 185 front with Avid... Should I go 6" rear and 7" front or 7" rear and 8" front???

    Thanks for the help, guys... Hoping some Chumba guys are running Hayes...

  2. #2
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    I'll be keeping my eye on this topic as I was looking at the trail's as well.
    I rode a cannondale recently with them on there and the brakes felt positive/solid and not spongy at all. Of course they were brand new and not broken in either.
    Frankenstein doesn't scare me ...

  3. #3
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    i got a set of stroker trails recently and the initial feel is rather spongy (lever pull while stopped). that may change when i actually ride with them. however i am broken and wont be able to test them for a few weeks. id post this in the brake time forum.

  4. #4
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    If you can afford it take a look at the Avid Elixir CR. So far I like them and brake feel is great. Still breaking them in but no complaints so far.

  5. #5
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    I have Magura Louise FR on my XCL. I don't know anyone around here (BC) that has had good luck with the Juicy 7s. I rode downhill at Fernie with the Juicy sevens and got some bad ass brake fade halfway down the run. The brakes didn't seem to ever get back to a "normal" feel. I guess if you don't plan on ever going down a hill with them then you should be fine.

    I vote Hayes if you can't go Magura.

  6. #6
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    I don't think there is a huge difference between the Juicy 5 and 7s. I think its just that they 7 have a red dial to adjust the lever handle easier. I run Juicy 7s on my xc bike and Formula Oros on my wife's.

    I rode a rental bike a couple weeks ago that had stokers and did not like the levers. They did not come back nicely. It was like there wasn't a spring or something.

    The feel of the Formula brakes is better than either, but they are pricey.

  7. #7
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    i'm loving my Formula Oro K24s on my XCL. still haven't found a patch of dirt here in MI that challenges them though.

  8. #8
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    maybe you need the J5s bled... i think the Juicies are plenty grabby unless they're not bled right or have air in the lines or maybe contaminated pads... first thing to do is take out the pads and do figure eights on the floor or use sand paper. Put them back on. Bleed the brakes... They should feel more than grabby enough. If not, J7 and Stroker Trails will not give you what you're looking for.

    Also, could the pistons be too far out? If so, you could take out the wheel and pull the lever a little bit and let the pistons set in. Only do this a little bit as it can move the pistons in a little too much.

    Lastly, if you're going to spend cash for grabby brakes, look up some codes or formulas...

  9. #9
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    Well I have Maguras on my XCL, though these might be pricy compared to US grown alternatives. I chose Mags because of they use mineral oil (Eco friendly…er) and because their support has been second to non (I popped a calliper piston seal and they replaced the whole calliper without question even though I bought the brakes in the US and I took the thing to my local dealer here in Copenhagen!).

    You could also look at the Hope stoppers, these are very good and quality is very high; these would have been by brake of choice if they were not DOT. I have had other hope products for 15 years now and all are still working really well.

    If I dare mention the S firms XT stoppers are rather impressive for there price point and represent great value.

    Here on the other side of the pond Formula are current kings of performance and have generally set the bench mark to which others are compared.

  10. #10
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    I've tried a few Juicy 7's and think they are junk (compared to Magura and Hope anyway). I currently have Hope Mono M4's which are nice, but really annoying to set up. The nicest brakes I tried till now where Magura Louise. Great feel, modulation, lot's of power. Kind of like the M4's but a breeze to set up (and silent when wet).

    Lot's of people say good things about Formula too, but I have not tried them or the new Hayes.

  11. #11
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    Formula, Hope, Magura, etc are probably all great systems, but I was choosing the Hayes or 7s due to price I can afford...

    I talked with some bike guys that have used both and they think the Hayes is too "on/off" and doesn't have as much modulation as the 7s. I told them that if the 7s feel anything like the 5s did, I wasn't interested...

    However, that ability to adjust the pad is something that might be good for me. I think the feel I want is too motorcycle like and wouldn't work for a 30 pound bike with a 190 pound rider. The guys were saying the fact they couldn't modulate with teh Hayes had me thinking they'd lock the rear too much if they are so "on/off",

    I thought with the 7s and the adjustability of the pads, I could dial in better initial bite with less lever travel or that "squishy" feel...

    I rode a Trek EX8 that has 5s and they sucked too. It's a preference, obviously of what we all want in terms of feel, but I think I am going to do the 7s and see what that gets me. I think the adjustability is key here...

  12. #12
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    I have the 7's....plenty of modulation, and power to stop my EVO. Run a 185 up front and 160 in the back. Never have any fade, or mush.

  13. #13
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    I think the op needs to bleed his juicy 5s. I played with my buddies juicy 3s today and was pretty impressed. I think the majority of ppl unhappy with brake problems just need to bleed them. Even when they are new and advertised as pre bled they generally still need a bleed

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckynumber9
    I think the op needs to bleed his juicy 5s. I played with my buddies juicy 3s today and was pretty impressed. I think the majority of ppl unhappy with brake problems just need to bleed them. Even when they are new and advertised as pre bled they generally still need a bleed
    Well, got my 7s on the way and will note the feel of those when installed. But, I also have ridden two other bikes with the same 5s and they feel exactly the same.

    Again, I think I am used to motorcycle braking and considering the weight differences, I am not going to get that feel I am used to. I will check, but as I stated with the Hayes, they felt the closest and even though I hadn't ridden them on a trail, the comments I have got from some folks is that they are what I wanted, but the fact they are so "on/off", I wouldn't be real happy. The 7s allow me to adjust the pads and can probably get them dialed to where I am more happy...

    Probably should have tried to bleed them, but hey... it got me an upgrade!

  15. #15
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    Strokers are a lot less on/off than the juicies... think your buddies might've been reffering to the 9s...

  16. #16
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    "adjusting the pads"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Dude
    Well, got my 7s on the way and will note the feel of those when installed. But, I also have ridden two other bikes with the same 5s and they feel exactly the same.

    Again, I think I am used to motorcycle braking and considering the weight differences, I am not going to get that feel I am used to. I will check, but as I stated with the Hayes, they felt the closest and even though I hadn't ridden them on a trail, the comments I have got from some folks is that they are what I wanted, but the fact they are so "on/off", I wouldn't be real happy. The 7s allow me to adjust the pads and can probably get them dialed to where I am more happy...

    Probably should have tried to bleed them, but hey... it got me an upgrade!
    After you've got your 7s set up please explain what "adjusting the pads" actually means. It can't possibly be the same as me adjusting the pads on my BB7s. I think the 7s allow you to adjust where the lever starts activating the pads, not where the pads are in relation to the rotor. Right?
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    After you've got your 7s set up please explain what "adjusting the pads" actually means. It can't possibly be the same as me adjusting the pads on my BB7s. I think the 7s allow you to adjust where the lever starts activating the pads, not where the pads are in relation to the rotor. Right?
    From Avid's site:

    "Pad Contact-Point Adjustment
    Setting the exact point where your fingers are when the brakes grip is huge. It means you choose the best-feeling position for your hand, and that means predictable performance from the brake.

    Indexed reach adjustmentOur reach adjuster does just what you’d expect, only in typical Avid fashion, it does it better. It’s indexed, so one click moves the lever 1mm."


    From this, I am assuming I can get the "feel" desired by adjusting when the pads contact vs. where my fingers are. The reach adjustment is the same as the 5s in terms of being able to adjust the lever in and out...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpercussive
    Strokers are a lot less on/off than the juicies... think your buddies might've been reffering to the 9s...
    I don't know, man. When I tried (limited) the Hayes on a bike they were the Rydes. Even they were more solid a feel in the lever and the action was instant on the brakes. With the 5s, I'd pull and the lever would pull in so much before I had the stopping power I desired. Now, I understand it could have been a matter of adjusting the reach so, I adjusted my reach, but the spongy feel isn't something like a soft lever, but actually, it felt more progressive where the pad bits initially, but the action of stopping is somewhat milliseconds later. Pull trigger, second, get stopped.

    With the Hayes, it felt like what I am used to with sportbikes. Pull the trigger, bites.

    Now, the guys at the Mtn bike shop in Morgantown, WV who I feel are VERY avid riders and do a TON of all mountain and down hill made some serious sense to me. That feel I had was due in part that the brakes are either stopping you or they are not. The modulation is there, but it is MUCH finer than the Avids are. I took that opinion seriously as they have a LOT more seat time than I do and I rode the bikes side by side and can see that if I was going down a hill and wanted to gently trail rear brake, the Avids are going to allow that. The Hayes will want to bite and lock the rear more so.

    Not saying that modulation isn't possible on the Hayes, but from all I have read, they are somewhat on/off as described by the bike guys at the shop...

    We'll see, I guess. Probably should have gone the route I intended first...

  19. #19
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    Welllll....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Dude
    From Avid's site:

    "Pad Contact-Point Adjustment
    Setting the exact point where your fingers are when the brakes grip is huge. It means you choose the best-feeling position for your hand, and that means predictable performance from the brake.

    Indexed reach adjustmentOur reach adjuster does just what you’d expect, only in typical Avid fashion, it does it better. It’s indexed, so one click moves the lever 1mm."


    From this, I am assuming I can get the "feel" desired by adjusting when the pads contact vs. where my fingers are. The reach adjustment is the same as the 5s in terms of being able to adjust the lever in and out...
    Sounds to me like the pads stay where they are but you're able to dial the static position of the levers closer to the grips if that's what you prefer. Anyhoo, there's an answer out there somewhere so find out from personal experience then let us know. My guess is that, if your pads are rubbing, there's no "dial out the pads" adjustment like my BB7s. Which is why I run BB7s and not hydros.
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Dude
    I don't know, man. When I tried (limited) the Hayes on a bike they were the Rydes. Even they were more solid a feel in the lever and the action was instant on the brakes. With the 5s, I'd pull and the lever would pull in so much before I had the stopping power I desired. Now, I understand it could have been a matter of adjusting the reach so, I adjusted my reach, but the spongy feel isn't something like a soft lever, but actually, it felt more progressive where the pad bits initially, but the action of stopping is somewhat milliseconds later. Pull trigger, second, get stopped.

    With the Hayes, it felt like what I am used to with sportbikes. Pull the trigger, bites.

    Now, the guys at the Mtn bike shop in Morgantown, WV who I feel are VERY avid riders and do a TON of all mountain and down hill made some serious sense to me. That feel I had was due in part that the brakes are either stopping you or they are not. The modulation is there, but it is MUCH finer than the Avids are. I took that opinion seriously as they have a LOT more seat time than I do and I rode the bikes side by side and can see that if I was going down a hill and wanted to gently trail rear brake, the Avids are going to allow that. The Hayes will want to bite and lock the rear more so.

    Not saying that modulation isn't possible on the Hayes, but from all I have read, they are somewhat on/off as described by the bike guys at the shop...

    We'll see, I guess. Probably should have gone the route I intended first...
    that seems very odd to me as juicies have less modulation than the strokers. Than again, i've never ridden the Stroker ryde which is different from the trail in terms of master and caliper and even the pads... But i still find it hard to believe that a Hayes (minus the 9) has less modulation than a juicy, haha. My guess is setup...
    .

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpercussive
    that seems very odd to me as juicies have less modulation than the strokers. Than again, i've never ridden the Stroker ryde which is different from the trail in terms of master and caliper and even the pads... But i still find it hard to believe that a Hayes (minus the 9) has less modulation than a juicy, haha. My guess is setup...
    .
    We might be saying the same thing, but understanding the terms differently...

    My understanding of modulation is that you have the ability to adujust or gradually brake. Meaning, gentle pulls equal less braking or the pads are so that the compound allows for a slower grab of the pad. Pull a little, get a little. Pull a lot, get a lot...

    Not having much modulation (everything has modulation) means it bites once pulled or releases once released kind of thing... Again, every system has modulation, I just think that the Hayes tends to bite as opposed to being linear and therefore tougher to get good modulation. I wanted that in the beginning, but the idea of easily locking the brakes is something I didn't want and with being able to adjust the pads, I think I can achieve close to what I want with the Avids and be able to revert back if need be...

    I didn't ride the Trails, but the guys at the shop have bikes with both (Trail and 7s) and prefer Avid as they like the better modulation they can get out of them. Hence them saying the Hayes is more on/off...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Dude
    We might be saying the same thing, but understanding the terms differently...

    My understanding of modulation is that you have the ability to adujust or gradually brake. Meaning, gentle pulls equal less braking or the pads are so that the compound allows for a slower grab of the pad. Pull a little, get a little. Pull a lot, get a lot...

    Not having much modulation (everything has modulation) means it bites once pulled or releases once released kind of thing... Again, every system has modulation, I just think that the Hayes tends to bite as opposed to being linear and therefore tougher to get good modulation. I wanted that in the beginning, but the idea of easily locking the brakes is something I didn't want and with being able to adjust the pads, I think I can achieve close to what I want with the Avids and be able to revert back if need be...

    Thats exactly what i'm saying... And the Hayes have better modulation than the juicies for sure... they lack the power of the juicies though...

  23. #23
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    Juicy 5's are awesome when set up correctly

    I have had excellent luck with Juicy 5's. I have had them on two bikes and another with Juicy 7's. If your 5's are spongey then they need to be bled. I prefer them over the 7's because there really is nothing that can go wrong with the 5's. I've run them on a downhill bike with 203mm levers and on two all-mountain bikes with 185mm rotors. Excellent modulation and plenty strong. One of my had a spongey feel so I took my time and properly bled the brakes. I spent a couple of hours doing the bleeds on the front and rears. I also threw in some new pads in the rear. They have been totally trouble free for the last year and feel as good today as they did after I bled them. I have been tempted to try some Formulas or Hopes but I think I just like the bling factor as they are very attractive brakes. I have lot of buddies that have had Hopes and also had a lot of trouble with them and are always fiddling with their brakes. Not really what I want to be doing. I want brakes that you set up and forget till they need pad replacements and that is what I've gotten with the Juicy 5's. In the past I had multiple Hayes brakes and they are very strong is bled correctly but have more of an on/off feel. They are very grabby with a lot less modulation than the Avids. As for Avid 3's, I have never used them but from the forums they sound like a PITA. They are also very inexpensive. Is for the Juicy 7's, they are cool to look at with a better finish than the 5's with their red adjustment knobs and shiney finish but other than that they work just like the 5's. No difference in strength or modulation.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpercussive
    Thats exactly what i'm saying... And the Hayes have better modulation than the juicies for sure... they lack the power of the juicies though...

    I think the Hayes are on/off like what 67 just stated and what I have heard from about everyone who has tried the Stroker Trails. "Too grabby" might be a better description.

    All is of no concern now as I just got the 7s put on. They feel MUCH better and I tend to think what 67 stated in that the 5s probably should have been bled.

    I like the idea about being able to adjust the pad contact for that more instant grab of sorts. Overall, the feel is better and they stop closer to how I would like and that's pretty much un adjusted and right out of the box...

    As far as bling goes, they look great, but I notice the powder coating tends to easily chip. Not a big issue, but seems weird...

    I will hopefully get to really test them this weekend and see for sure, but just the little flat trail stuff I did after install, they felt better to me.

    Might be somewhat mental, but been around brakes long enough that it is more what I expect than what I wish for and if it does what I expect, I like it. The 7s seem to be doing what I expected...

  25. #25
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    +999 on the bleed your brakes. .

    I have Juicy 5's and have been extremely happy with them after they were bled. My wife has the Stroker Carbons. Based on riding her bike for a short time the Juicies feel more solid. The Avids are also easier to bleed. The bleed screw into the steel banjo bolt will be more durable than a bleed port into the soft caliper body.

    Another issue I have with the Stroker Carbons is that the caliper/piston is poorly designed. If you drop a pad (for example taking the front wheel off to put the bike in a rack) and have the piston contact the rotor, there is a metal post that the "tool less" pad change retainer snaps into that will contact the rotor, catch in a vent/lightening hole and snap off eliminating the pad retention feature. You then have to rebuild the caliper with new pistons to correct the problem. This is the same design as the Stroker Trails.

    Just my experience with both of these brakes

    Having the fives and being quite satisfied, I am not sure why you would even need the 7s. . . .

  26. #26
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    Juicy 5's are solid performers

    Quote Originally Posted by ortedd
    +999 on the bleed your brakes. .

    I have Juicy 5's and have been extremely happy with them after they were bled. My wife has the Stroker Carbons. Based on riding her bike for a short time the Juicies feel more solid. The Avids are also easier to bleed. The bleed screw into the steel banjo bolt will be more durable than a bleed port into the soft caliper body.

    Another issue I have with the Stroker Carbons is that the caliper/piston is poorly designed. If you drop a pad (for example taking the front wheel off to put the bike in a rack) and have the piston contact the rotor, there is a metal post that the "tool less" pad change retainer snaps into that will contact the rotor, catch in a vent/lightening hole and snap off eliminating the pad retention feature. You then have to rebuild the caliper with new pistons to correct the problem. This is the same design as the Stroker Trails.

    Just my experience with both of these brakes

    Having the fives and being quite satisfied, I am not sure why you would even need the 7s. . . .

    On my bikes I always look to build with as many solid trouble free parts as possible. Thomson seatpost and stems, Easton handlebars, Chis King headsets, Mavic SUP welded and machined rims and Hope or Hadley Hubs. Brakes are one of those items that can be a constant source of headache if they are a bad design. I am a set and forget kind of guy as much as possible and the Juicy 5's are the most reliable and trouble free brakes I've ever had. They are also about the best value on the market. You can find incredible deals on the 5's. I can't say enough about there performance.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Dude
    I don't know, man. When I tried (limited) the Hayes on a bike they were the Rydes. Even they were more solid a feel in the lever and the action was instant on the brakes. With the 5s, I'd pull and the lever would pull in so much before I had the stopping power I desired. Now, I understand it could have been a matter of adjusting the reach so, I adjusted my reach, but the spongy feel isn't something like a soft lever, but actually, it felt more progressive where the pad bits initially, but the action of stopping is somewhat milliseconds later. Pull trigger, second, get stopped.

    With the Hayes, it felt like what I am used to with sportbikes. Pull the trigger, bites.

    Now, the guys at the Mtn bike shop in Morgantown, WV who I feel are VERY avid riders and do a TON of all mountain and down hill made some serious sense to me. That feel I had was due in part that the brakes are either stopping you or they are not. The modulation is there, but it is MUCH finer than the Avids are. I took that opinion seriously as they have a LOT more seat time than I do and I rode the bikes side by side and can see that if I was going down a hill and wanted to gently trail rear brake, the Avids are going to allow that. The Hayes will want to bite and lock the rear more so.

    Not saying that modulation isn't possible on the Hayes, but from all I have read, they are somewhat on/off as described by the bike guys at the shop...

    We'll see, I guess. Probably should have gone the route I intended first...
    You’ve been riding the Stroker Ryde’s which are crap, they brake nothing like the Trail’s. The lever movement before the pads bite is much shorter, they feel a lot more solid and the smaller callipers and hoses make the modulation poor at best. Apart from that the levers are very uncomfortable and the pads aren't the same size as the Trail’s which also effects modulation.

    The Stroker Trail’s are a tiny bit “on/off” compared to Shimano and other brakes that have a very dull initial bite but they’re not “on/off” compared to Avid.

    I think the Juicy’s are junk TBH, I could do a whole post on how rubbish the calliper mounting system is, not to mention the fact that one of mine blew up or the many other problems I had with them. The Stroker Trail’s are way more reliable, way quieter and the pads last way longer. I really can’t believe how many Avid lovers there are in this thread, I don’t know anyone who likes using them, I’ve got two bike shops in my area that won’t sell them cos they’re crap and another that won’t even work on them because they’re so unreliable. I literally threw mine in the bin…

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168
    You’ve been riding the Stroker Ryde’s which are crap, they brake nothing like the Trail’s. The lever movement before the pads bite is much shorter, they feel a lot more solid and the smaller callipers and hoses make the modulation poor at best. Apart from that the levers are very uncomfortable and the pads aren't the same size as the Trail’s which also effects modulation.

    The Stroker Trail’s are a tiny bit “on/off” compared to Shimano and other brakes that have a very dull initial bite but they’re not “on/off” compared to Avid.

    I think the Juicy’s are junk TBH, I could do a whole post on how rubbish the calliper mounting system is, not to mention the fact that one of mine blew up or the many other problems I had with them. The Stroker Trail’s are way more reliable, way quieter and the pads last way longer. I really can’t believe how many Avid lovers there are in this thread, I don’t know anyone who likes using them, I’ve got two bike shops in my area that won’t sell them cos they’re crap and another that won’t even work on them because they’re so unreliable. I literally threw mine in the bin…
    It's like asking what the best oil is or what the best tire choice is. I knew or figured that there would be such opinions as seen in those other question type threads...

    I just wanted to hear from others and the on/off comments are what I was looking for and found.

    As far as the Avids being junk, I guess it could be in your case. I mean, for every great comment, there is usually a negative one. Just like you think Hayes is the best, you could probably find an area that thinks Avid is the best and only will sell them...

    My feelings are that each and every person has a different expectation as to what they want in a bike and how they want the controls to do what they do for THEM.

    Hell, I have a buddy that has been riding a store bought (Target) bike and is almost as fast as our buddy that has a $4k Specialized... Point is that use what works best for you and use responses in an attempt to find that answer you seek.

    I think the new 7s feel better than the 5s and are doing what I was wanting at the start. Maybe I should have bled them - I am new at this for the most part and when I hear "pre-bled", I assumed it was true. Maybe it wasn't, but the bikes I have ridden must have all been the same and the feel I had with them all and my very own wasn't what I was wanting.

    The Trails are different than the Rydes - I understand this. However, I looked to the bike guys that have ridden Trails and they said they were more on/off than the Avids...

    So, taking all those things and the fact that I got a KILLER deal online with the 7s, I thought I'd try them. I am very happy and they are doing what I am asking them to do.

  29. #29
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    Tell me about different opinions

    My BB7s work great, they're all I need and are maintenance free. The next guy might say they're junk, constant maintenance and wonder how I could run such crap on my bike.

    Of course, that doesn't mean that my BB7s don't work great, aren't all I need and aren't maintenance free for me.
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  30. #30
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    I ride Trail 7's on my new Anthem - easy maintenance and setup compared to Avids. No on/off issues at all. All round great brakes - I would say that the new XTR are better but that's just based on one ride of a mates bike.

    @ xcguy - BB7's are the ****. They are easily the best value brake on the market. I rode them for a couple of years and would say they do 95% of what a top line hydro does. Adjustability and maintenance are as good as anything else. Anyone gives you crap about your BB7's doesn't know **** from clay......

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KH1
    I ride Trail 7's on my new Anthem - easy maintenance and setup compared to Avids. No on/off issues at all. All round great brakes - I would say that the new XTR are better but that's just based on one ride of a mates bike.

    @ xcguy - BB7's are the ****. They are easily the best value brake on the market. I rode them for a couple of years and would say they do 95% of what a top line hydro does. Adjustability and maintenance are as good as anything else. Anyone gives you crap about your BB7's doesn't know **** from clay......
    I went over to the dark side and got Elixir Rs for one bike. I'm sure you've read about my travails getting the Elixirs to run quiet and vibration free and pad rub free but I finally have quiet no pad rub Elixirs. And I still have a dialed in set of BB7s on my other bike.

    I got the Elixirs just to see what hydro freaks are all raving about so it's been a good learning experience. I have to say, though, I don't think my Elixirs are more powerful than my BB7s. I can only surmise that those who don't like their BB7s (for whatever reason) just aren't experiencing what I experience with my BB7s. They're powerful, they stop with the same amount of lever pulling force as my Elixirs (after all, it's the same pads clamping down on the same rotors), they're quiet, they hardly ever need adjusting (and when they do, like yesterday when I heard the slightest "squeeeeeek" while stopped, I just dialed one red dial out one turn and it was fixed----not so easy on my Elixirs!).

    I don't choose which bike to ride thinking that this trail needs this kind of braking, I know that it's how each bike will handle each particular trail, not the stopping power of either.

    I think all anyone can ask of their brakes is that they're reliable, they stop you as fast as you want them to, they're predictable and maintenance free.
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by AscentCanada
    I don't think there is a huge difference between the Juicy 5 and 7s. I think its just that they 7 have a red dial to adjust the lever handle easier. I run Juicy 7s on my xc bike and Formula Oros on my wife's.

    I rode a rental bike a couple weeks ago that had stokers and did not like the levers. They did not come back nicely. It was like there wasn't a spring or something.

    The feel of the Formula brakes is better than either, but they are pricey.
    You are right about the Juicy 5s and 7s - the caliper is almost identical save the pad adjustment - and even without the adjustment; the 5s usually don't rub too much.
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    Just an update... I guess the 5s might have been needing bled, I suppose if they are essentially the same thing as the 7s. But, these 7s I have are doing really well for me. That initial bite I was wanting similar to the feel we get on our racebikes, is showing to have been something I probably do not want. These are working rather well and even though I think they feel different than the 5s, I guess I am just feeling what good brakes are like should they be bled right? Maybe...

    I just know that the 7s are working great and are doing the job well enough to not have me looking for a replacement.

    I have no idea how many miles I have on them, but I ride close to 20-60 miles a week and haven't had any complaints...

  34. #34
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    The bleed probably was the problem. My J7s worked well when I first got them, I thought. After the first bleed, I was amazed at the difference in power yet they still had great modulation. Like others have said, the 5s and 7s are pretty much the same.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky D
    The bleed probably was the problem. My J7s worked well when I first got them, I thought. After the first bleed, I was amazed at the difference in power yet they still had great modulation. Like others have said, the 5s and 7s are pretty much the same.
    Agree, a little bit of air, or lower-than-recommended fluid levels can make the brakes feel soggy - reduce modulation feel and stopping power. Although technically, the Avid brakes are supposed to come pre-bled - it's not a terrible idea to bleed your brakes before the first ride.
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    I have a set of strokers on my dh bike -giant zero, the lever position adjust is great it has a really wide range,i can get the levers close to the bar. AS far as i understand hydrolics should never have softness in the lever,that means there's air in the system,air in the system is bad because even if the brakes seem to work ok ,maybe because of very agressive pads, when things get hot the air will expand and lever feel will change or the pads might drag,you want brakes to be consistant. The levers should go in to a point and then have a progressive increase in braking as pressure increases. The lever may move just a tiny bit, 1 to 2mm maybe(?), but that should really just be a bit of flex in the lever, lever pivot or the tiniest bit of flex in the caliper. If your brakes are to grabby for your liking you can ; a) get pads that don't grab as much, b) get smaller rotors.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbn
    I have a set of strokers on my dh bike -giant zero, the lever position adjust is great it has a really wide range,i can get the levers close to the bar. AS far as i understand hydrolics should never have softness in the lever,that means there's air in the system,air in the system is bad because even if the brakes seem to work ok ,maybe because of very agressive pads, when things get hot the air will expand and lever feel will change or the pads might drag,you want brakes to be consistant. The levers should go in to a point and then have a progressive increase in braking as pressure increases. The lever may move just a tiny bit, 1 to 2mm maybe(?), but that should really just be a bit of flex in the lever, lever pivot or the tiniest bit of flex in the caliper. If your brakes are to grabby for your liking you can ; a) get pads that don't grab as much, b) get smaller rotors.
    Right - even Shimano SLX brakes, or Juicy 3s should have a firm feel and consistent modulation - not to say - that upgrades won't make a difference.
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  38. #38
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    Juicy 7 vs. Stroker Trails

    I've been rocking a set of stock stroker trails on my stinky for about 2 years and I have absolutely punished these breaks including jamming a lever into the ground at high speed. I've ridden a bunch of my buddies' bikes with Juicys on them and have not been impressed.

    The Juicys seem difficult to adjust, constantly misalign when you remove a wheel, and Avid's rep with our LBS is terrible.

    The Stoker Trails on the other hand are tough as nails (my #1 priority), have gobs of stopping power, never seem to require anything more than a simple adjustment, and at least for me have a ton of modulation. The Rydes that some folks are talking about are lower grade then the Trails, you can see that just by feeling the materials used in their manufacture.

    I'm still pretty new to DH and AM but I can tell you that as soon as I get enough saved up, my XC bike is getting a pair of Stroker Trails for X-mas.

    The one positive point I found with the entire Juicy series is that they look damn good. If looks were everything, the Juicys take the cake. But they are not; I want my brakes to do their job and stand up to the punishment I dish out (new DH rider eager to try almost anything=lots of broken bike parts) and the Strokers do that in spades.

  39. #39
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    I run a set of hayes 9 s on my dh rig with formula rotors. The formula rotors are i believe a little thicker which seems to have made modulation a bit better, also always use metallic pads instead of organic on any of my bikes. But i also like an on/off feeling with my brakes as well. Like my j7s, the master cylinder/lever area is not as durable as hayes in a high speed impact with the likes of large trees. Would love to try some codes, not rich though so i have to tweak what i have.

  40. #40
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    I just bought a set of Strokers (Trails) and right now I can't seem to get the rear aligned properly. The pistons/pads always seem to get too close to the rotor. Moreover they squeak at low speeds...any suggestions? I've done the normal SOP work (clean rotors, sand down the pads, tighten bolts, etc.)

  41. #41
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    to start off,never go slow you didn't mention bleeding out a bit of fluid,you could try that. We used to remove the pads and push back the pistons then put the pads back in with a bit of a shim between the pads and the rotors, then bleed as usual and remove the shims.Try to get a line of sight between the pads and the rotors ,try to see the gap and make sure it's even/straight,it's a thin gap so you have to look very carefully,it's definitely something i break out the glasses for.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbn
    to start off,never go slow you didn't mention bleeding out a bit of fluid,you could try that. We used to remove the pads and push back the pistons then put the pads back in with a bit of a shim between the pads and the rotors, then bleed as usual and remove the shims.Try to get a line of sight between the pads and the rotors ,try to see the gap and make sure it's even/straight,it's a thin gap so you have to look very carefully,it's definitely something i break out the glasses for.
    I'll try to bleed out some of the fluid. Thanks!

  43. #43
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    This is like arguing is chevy better than ford, IMO you get what you pay for. If you want a brake that does everything you want well, then you need to spend the extra money. I own a set of juicy 7's and love the modulation and ability to align the pads with the rotor quickly. I don't remove my wheels very often so adjustment is hardly ever needed. They do tend to squeal a bit but no big deal. I have never tried the Hayes Strokers, but did consider them before purchasing the Avids. I will more than likely go to magura or hopes when the juicy's need replacing but until then they do what there supposed to do.

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