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  1. #1
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    The f-bom products prototype is nearing completion

    Here are some details. It is a 26" hardtail with horizontal drops. The prototype has a built in derailleur hanger, but the production model will not have a built in hanger. Instead it will have a dropout that will allow for an additional piece to slide over the axle so a hanger can be added. The dropout will also have built in chain tensioners. The idea is that if a rider goes pure singlespeed, the frame won't have the un-needed hanger on the dropout. If a rider uses gears, the hanger will always be aligned perfectly with the axle and the wheelbase will have some adjustment. Let's say you are going to do some XC trail with a lot of hills and you want the rear wheel set back to keep the front wheel down, you can use the chain tensioners to easly move the wheel back and have a longer rear end which will help keep the front wheel down during climbs. If you want a shorter rear end for more technical riding and some airtime, then slide that baby forward to make it easier to pull up the front end.

    This frame is for the ever growing generation of more aggressive XC riders. Let's face it, I grew up on a BMX bike, and still ride my BMX bike quite a bit. I wanted to design a mountain bike frame that felt good to me because most frames feel awkward to me. They don't handle technical features all that well and the stems are waaaay too long putting the rider over the front wheel when they stand up to do technical moves.

    Most geared dirt jump bikes have too short of a top tube and are heavy so they don't do XC riding all that well. This is a good balance between the two. I had an On-One Inbred and I have to say, that frame was by far my favorite frame geometry ever. I ride a 16" frame and my On-One had a 23.2 inch top tube length. I ran a 50mm stem on it, I am only 5' 7" tall, and that bike handled great! Especially when I was standing up riding technical features or deciding to take the jump line. I actually took my Inbred to Whistler and had a blast on it!

    So we decided the f-bom frame geometry should be modeled after the Inbred geometry, but with a few slight tweaks we felt the Inbred lacked. We are raising the bottom bracket, adding a degree to the headtube angle, and shortening the chainstays slightly (keep in mind the adjustability I mentioned earlier). This way a rider can have the exact same cockpit as a traditional XC frame will offer, but without the long stem that puts the rider over the front wheel while standing. We also decided to set up the geometry for 100mm fork rather than an 80mm fork like the Inbred. We want a little extra cushion for the more aggressive rider....

    We really think people will like this frame. It will be steel and some tricks will be done to reduce side flex at the bottom bracket. I don't like bottom bracket flex because I like to stand up and hammer hard on short steep climbs. While doing this, a rider is pulling up hard on the handlebars while pushing down hard on their pedal on the same side.....this causes a twisting flex on the frame, which takes away power being applied. So reducing bottom bracket flex will help transfer more rider power to the rear wheel.

    All frames will be made right here in Minneapolis (yep, made in the U.S.A. baby!) by Peacock Groove. So you know they will be solid! Follow us on Facebook to keep informed about where we are at with production and to get a test ride on the prototype in a few weeks.

  2. #2
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    sounds interesting. I was reading your site, you may want to proof read the intro. The first line has "our" and "on" switched places, and later in the intro you misspell "punichment".

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by el_chupo_ View Post
    sounds interesting. I was reading your site, you may want to proof read the intro. The first line has "our" and "on" switched places, and later in the intro you misspell "punichment".
    Well, someday we will be able to afford a proof reader.......

    Thanks!

  4. #4
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    Here is a picture of me riding my Inbred in Whistler. The f-bom frame will be based on this frame with a few tweaks.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by el_chupo_ View Post
    When you say you are adding a degree to the head tube, do you mean steepening or slacking it out a bit?

    What BB height are you shooting for?

    Thanks
    We are going steeper, quicker, than 70 degrees. I think we will try 72 on the prototype and see how it feels. After all, it is a prototype so we might as well try it out. The bottom bracket will be moved up 1/4" from where the Inbred BB height is. I felt it was a tad low in relationship to the rear axle. A higher BB height will allow for a better feel while standing and maneuvering the bike over technical terrain. I don't remember the exact height, I will find out and post it.

    Keep in mind, this is the prototype and I wanted to try a few of these ideas to see how well they worked. The idea is to have this bike feel very comfortable while standing and riding tech without sacrificing a seated XC riding feel too much. Finding that balance will be tricky but we believe we can do it. Most mountain bike frame geometries evolve from road geometry which is why you get the short top tube and long stem on many XC mountain bike frames. That just doesn't make sense to us.....so we are going to try something quite different.

  6. #6
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    Here is the prototype geometry. It is pretty aggressive, but we want to see how it will ride. If this thing is too twitchy, we will mellow it out some.

    16" frame (for riders 5'6" to 5'10" tall)

    Top Tube: 23.25 effective.
    BB Height: 35mm drop from rear axle.
    ChainStay Length: 425mm to most forward position (about 30mm adjustability). Production frame will have more when custom f-bom dropout is water jet cut to our spec.
    Head Angle: 72
    Seat Tube Angle: 73
    100mm suspension corrected.

    The idea here is that we want a frame that is designed for an experienced aggressive rider. Someone who wants a quick handling bike and can handle one. I hear all this talk about how slack head tube angles make for a more stable feel and ride. Sure, it does but it has a lot of disadvantages in other areas and well, if people can ride 20" BMX bikes and do what they do, why can't riders adapt to a quicker and better suited geometry for the task at hand on a mountain bike? We think they can......

    We will schedule times and places where people can try the bike out and give input. Then we will go back and make needed adjustments. So stay tuned for updates. The best place to do that is by following our Facebook page as mentioned earlier.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by manual63 View Post
    So we decided the f-bom frame geometry should be modeled after the Inbred geometry, but with a few slight tweaks we felt the Inbred lacked. We are raising the bottom bracket, adding a degree to the headtube angle,

    When you say you are adding a degree to the head tube, do you mean steepening or slacking it out a bit?

    What BB height are you shooting for?

    Thanks

  8. #8
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    Here are the final stages.

    The seatstays are being welded up. Then some final touches and the prototype f-bom frame will be ready for testing. This frame is being designed to accept tires up to 26 x 2.5. That should be plenty of tire clearance and still keep the frame bottom bracket flex nice and stiff.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The f-bom products prototype is nearing completion-f-bom_seatstay.jpg  


  9. #9
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    The frame is complete.

    Peacock Groove built and ready to build up and test ride.

    Follow us on Facebook to see when and where I will be riding so you can check this out and give it a spin. https://www.facebook.com/pages/F-bom...ts/58968052052

    Just in case you didn't see the info about the geometry before I will repost it.

    16" frame (for riders 5'6" to 5'10" tall)

    Top Tube: 23.25 effective.
    BB Height: 35mm drop from rear axle.
    ChainStay Length: 425mm to most forward position (about 30mm adjustability). Production frame will have more when custom f-bom dropout is water jet cut to our spec.
    Head Angle: 72
    Seat Tube Angle: 73
    100mm suspension corrected.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The f-bom products prototype is nearing completion-completedprototype.jpg  


  10. #10
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    Here is the initial build. I plan to add some Slant Six tires and working on getting a White Bros. 100mm fork so I can use the matching front wheel. Right now it has a 100mm DJ fork on it with a 20mm Thru axle, a bit overkill for this application but it will allow me to start testing it while I wait for the other parts.

    I will be at some trails this week, so if you are in the Minneapolis area and want to try it out, check our Facebook page for updates on where I'll be.

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/F-bom...ts/58968052052
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The f-bom products prototype is nearing completion-2011-06-12-07-17-14-669.jpg  


  11. #11
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    As a person who also rides/races 20"/24" bikes, no way would I want a 26" mtb with a 72 degree head angle with a 100 mm fork. BB height at 13.3"? Is there really such a market for a bike like this??? (other than trials riding)
    May the air be filled with tires!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200 View Post
    As a person who also rides/races 20"/24" bikes, no way would I want a 26" mtb with a 72 degree head angle with a 100 mm fork. BB height at 13.3"? Is there really such a market for a bike like this??? (other than trials riding)
    13.3" BB Height? Where did you get that number? It is a 35mm drop from rear axle, a better way to measure because different tires, forks, and such can change BB height. 40mm drop is standard, so we are talking only 5mm difference here. With 26 x 2.35 tires it is measuring out at roughly around 12 3/4 inches.

    As far as headangle goes, you need to ride it to see how it feels. It is awesome to have a quicker handling bike! At first it feels a bit nutty, but once you adjust to it you can squeak through corners, especially tight ones, like nobodies business.

    Everyone who rides it likes it. I actually have a 85 - 140mm adjustable fork on it, which I recommend. This way, tighter singletrack is fun with it set low to quicken the bike. But on the more open terrain you can move the fork up to 120mm or so and it adds more stability while still keeping the bike agile. On most bikes, if you set the fork at 120mm the bike becomes a pig.....unless it was designed around 120mm to start with.

    I guess we at f-bom say.....don't knock it until you try it......

  13. #13
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    We did more test rides at a local trail called Theodore Wirth (the one the frame is named after) and later at a trail called Murphy. The riders who tried the bike really liked how it rode. One rider said he was able to maneuver through some tight trees much easier and he also said he made a corner that he just previously slid into the woods on while on his own bike. I liked his input because he had a long riding past, some with BMX experience, and was skilled. Others really liked it too and one guy said he liked how he could throw it around. These are the things we want to hear.

    This frame isn't for everyone though. If you really like the forward leaning position of a traditional XC ride and you feel comfortable with that more traditional (or road bike) feel on a mountain bike, this frame likely isn't for you.

    This frame is designed for someone much like myself who grow up on a BMX bike and loves the technical stuff as much as they like the long distance XC stuff. It is a great balance between both worlds. It is an aggressive riding bike and designed to feel just as good in the air, over an obstacle, or on the ground. Most frames don't tackle all those well........although I think before this prototype my On-One Inbred came pretty close. This prototype is basically my Inbred with a few geometry tweaks that I didn't like about that frame.....and of course made in the U.S.A......not Taiwan like the Inbreds.

    Production will start in a couple of months. We will be taking pre-orders soon as we have a lot of people interested and we will only be able to make so many at a time.

    Have fun out there.......it's summer and it's riding time!!!!!

  14. #14
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    Quick advice

    Constructive criticism, from someone who has been there/done that:

    -Your first bike always seems completely awesome, because it's your first bike. That does not mean you should decide the design is perfect and start building dozens of copies. It means you didn't totally blow it, and that you should build some more with different geometry (including things you *don't* think are what you want) and discover what works and doesn't. My first frame was the most awesome bike I had ever ridden - until I built number 2, and number 3, and so on. Designs improve with evolution, and nobody hits the target perfectly on the first try. What would shorter chainstays feel like? Different head angles/toptubes/front centers? Bottom bracket heights?

    -All your friends will want bikes, and it will feel like you are kicking ass as a company before you even start. This is untrue - to be successful, you need to sell bikes to people you don't know, who do not care who you are, and who aren't interested in telling you how great the bike is because they are your friends. So do not get too excited that your pals like the bike. When you run out of bros to sell frames to, you need to have a product that non-bros want.

    -Your geometry is reminiscent of early 90s NORBA geometry in most ways. Old Bontys from then ran 72 HTA and a similar BB height/drop. They were not particularly noted for how well they handled techy stuff at speed (or in the air). Keep in mind that the positioning of the front wheel (front center) and head tube angle are inextricably related. You can build a "slack" bike that actually can be thrown around tight corners very well, if you pay attention to the front center number (throw the ETT crap out the window, that's what different stem lengths are for).

    -Let me say this more clearly: what you have here is a dead-standard 26" hardtail with a 1 degree steeper than normal head tube angle and horizontal dropouts. There are a LOT of bikes out there that are extremely similar.

    -The hucker/BMX/jumper market is not going to go for 1 1/8 head tubes, horizontal drops with slotted disc mounts, etc. Modernize, modernize, modernize. You need to be compatible with tapered steerers, ISCG, probably rear maxle, etc.

    -IMO you are not ready to be taking preorders for anything (one prototype?), but of course you can do whatever you want. Your first step should probably be to go take a small business/accounting class at a local community college. Building the bikes is the easy part (especially if you're having Erik do it) - making money at it is hard.

    Good luck!

    -Walt


    Quote Originally Posted by manual63 View Post
    We did more test rides at a local trail called Theodore Wirth (the one the frame is named after) and later at a trail called Murphy. The riders who tried the bike really liked how it rode. One rider said he was able to maneuver through some tight trees much easier and he also said he made a corner that he just previously slid into the woods on while on his own bike. I liked his input because he had a long riding past, some with BMX experience, and was skilled. Others really liked it too and one guy said he liked how he could throw it around. These are the things we want to hear.

    This frame isn't for everyone though. If you really like the forward leaning position of a traditional XC ride and you feel comfortable with that more traditional (or road bike) feel on a mountain bike, this frame likely isn't for you.

    This frame is designed for someone much like myself who grow up on a BMX bike and loves the technical stuff as much as they like the long distance XC stuff. It is a great balance between both worlds. It is an aggressive riding bike and designed to feel just as good in the air, over an obstacle, or on the ground. Most frames don't tackle all those well........although I think before this prototype my On-One Inbred came pretty close. This prototype is basically my Inbred with a few geometry tweaks that I didn't like about that frame.....and of course made in the U.S.A......not Taiwan like the Inbreds.

    Production will start in a couple of months. We will be taking pre-orders soon as we have a lot of people interested and we will only be able to make so many at a time.

    Have fun out there.......it's summer and it's riding time!!!!!
    Waltworks Custom Bicycles
    Park City, UT USA
    www.waltworks.com
    waltworks.blogspot.com

  15. #15
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    I appreciate the advice, but there are some misconceptions in your post.

    One, this frame is being built by a very experienced frame builder who has been building frames for a long time now. The design is also designed by myself with some other input with over 30 years of riding experience and know how.

    Two, this isn't a dirt jumper, freeride, or hucker bike. It's an XC bike designed and built for the more progressive XC style trails we are now seeing and riders like myself who don't like the traditional leaned forward riding position of MOST, not all, XC bikes out there. The Surly 1x1 comes to mind. The 16" has a 22.2 inch top tube length with to size it to myself I need a 100mm stem on it putting my body and weight over the front wheel while standing doing anything technical.

    Three, the whole reason we are doing a prototype is to see what others (as in people who are not friends or buddies) think about how it rides. They like it as much as we do.

    Four, we are not saying we are the first ones to think of or do this sort of design. But it is rare to see such an XC bike like this one. I have seen a few customs, but not many production models that have a 23.25 inch effective top tube length on a 16" frame with a 72 degree headangle. Most XC bikes have a super short effective top tube. I first remember the Gary Fisher Genesis Geometry and this is sort of a more extreme version of that in a way.

    We are experienced at what we are doing and have a lot of knowledge behind our efforts.

    Also keep in mind, one of our biggest reasons for starting a bicycle company is because we are a bit sick and tired of almost every company outsourcing to Taiwan and China. These are good quality hand built frames made right here in the U.S. Check out the website if you need to know more.

    Again, thanks for the pointers.......I think we got it from here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Constructive criticism, from someone who has been there/done that:

    -Your first bike always seems completely awesome, because it's your first bike. That does not mean you should decide the design is perfect and start building dozens of copies. It means you didn't totally blow it, and that you should build some more with different geometry (including things you *don't* think are what you want) and discover what works and doesn't. My first frame was the most awesome bike I had ever ridden - until I built number 2, and number 3, and so on. Designs improve with evolution, and nobody hits the target perfectly on the first try. What would shorter chainstays feel like? Different head angles/toptubes/front centers? Bottom bracket heights?

    -All your friends will want bikes, and it will feel like you are kicking ass as a company before you even start. This is untrue - to be successful, you need to sell bikes to people you don't know, who do not care who you are, and who aren't interested in telling you how great the bike is because they are your friends. So do not get too excited that your pals like the bike. When you run out of bros to sell frames to, you need to have a product that non-bros want.

    -Your geometry is reminiscent of early 90s NORBA geometry in most ways. Old Bontys from then ran 72 HTA and a similar BB height/drop. They were not particularly noted for how well they handled techy stuff at speed (or in the air). Keep in mind that the positioning of the front wheel (front center) and head tube angle are inextricably related. You can build a "slack" bike that actually can be thrown around tight corners very well, if you pay attention to the front center number (throw the ETT crap out the window, that's what different stem lengths are for).

    -Let me say this more clearly: what you have here is a dead-standard 26" hardtail with a 1 degree steeper than normal head tube angle and horizontal dropouts. There are a LOT of bikes out there that are extremely similar.

    -The hucker/BMX/jumper market is not going to go for 1 1/8 head tubes, horizontal drops with slotted disc mounts, etc. Modernize, modernize, modernize. You need to be compatible with tapered steerers, ISCG, probably rear maxle, etc.

    -IMO you are not ready to be taking preorders for anything (one prototype?), but of course you can do whatever you want. Your first step should probably be to go take a small business/accounting class at a local community college. Building the bikes is the easy part (especially if you're having Erik do it) - making money at it is hard.

    Good luck!

    -Walt

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    You can build a "slack" bike that actually can be thrown around tight corners very well, if you pay attention to the front center number (throw the ETT crap out the window, that's what different stem lengths are for).
    I do however strongly disagree with this statement. Mostly because of my BMX background. As a rider gets taller they buy a longer BMX frame. I never quite understood why the mountain bike world thinks slapping a longer stem on is the best way to size a bike. The idea that a longer stem corrects sizing it totally off IMO. If you throw on a longer stem, you throw off how the bike rides and handles, especially while standing. The longer the stem is, the more the rider weight is forward. Like I have said in other posts.....any stem longer than 80mm is too long. If you get to needing a longer stem than that, then the frame should be longer (effective top tube).

    I know many out there don't agree with this concept, which is okay. Some people like a certain feel and ride than others. The 16" prototype has a 50mm stem with the same nice and roomy cockpit as a normal bike with a 100mm stem simply because of the longer top tube length. When a rider is standing and jumping, riding technical sections, doing steep drops, and so on......the front wheel is out and in front of the rider, not back underneath them like on more traditional geometries.

    For me it's not about making a ton of money, it's about supporting the community of U.S. manufacturers and keeping the money here in the U.S. to help support our economy. It's also about being green and not supporting the very wasteful and polluting use of fuel that container ships require. Read this blog to know more about Bunker Fuel. The bicycle industry talks a lot about being green......yet since they outsource most of their products to Taiwan or China......it isn't so green anymore......

  17. #17
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    Ok.

    As I said, good luck. I am trying, believe it or not, to help you. I know Erik and I'm sure he'll do a great job building the frames. Building the frames though, as I said, is the easy part.

    You need to spend some more time working with BikeCAD or some other design program to understand front center/HTA/stem length and how they work. The "length" of the bike (ie, the center of mass relative to the axles/wheelbase) has nothing to do with stem length.

    Genesis geometry is notable for very LONG effective toptubes, btw. And throw your seat tube thing out the window. Nobody in their right mind sizes a frame by seat tube length unless they're at Wally World.

    I applaud your efforts to build in the US and wish you the best of luck. You may want to post over in the framebuilder's forum to get some expert (and not so expert) advice as you continue on this path.

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by manual63 View Post
    I appreciate the advice, but there are some misconceptions in your post.

    One, this frame is being built by a very experienced frame builder who has been building frames for a long time now. The design is also designed by myself with some other input with over 30 years of riding experience and know how.

    Two, this isn't a dirt jumper, freeride, or hucker bike. It's an XC bike designed and built for the more progressive XC style trails we are now seeing and riders like myself who don't like the traditional leaned forward riding position of MOST, not all, XC bikes out there. The Surly 1x1 comes to mind. The 16" has a 22.2 inch top tube length with to size it to myself I need a 100mm stem on it putting my body and weight over the front wheel while standing doing anything technical.

    Three, the whole reason we are doing a prototype is to see what others (as in people who are not friends or buddies) think about how it rides. They like it as much as we do.

    Four, we are not saying we are the first ones to think of or do this sort of design. But it is rare to see such an XC bike like this one. I have seen a few customs, but not many production models that have a 23.25 inch effective top tube length on a 16" frame with a 72 degree headangle. Most XC bikes have a super short effective top tube. I first remember the Gary Fisher Genesis Geometry and this is sort of a more extreme version of that in a way.

    We are experienced at what we are doing and have a lot of knowledge behind our efforts.

    Also keep in mind, one of our biggest reasons for starting a bicycle company is because we are a bit sick and tired of almost every company outsourcing to Taiwan and China. These are good quality hand built frames made right here in the U.S. Check out the website if you need to know more.

    Again, thanks for the pointers.......I think we got it from here.
    Waltworks Custom Bicycles
    Park City, UT USA
    www.waltworks.com
    waltworks.blogspot.com

  18. #18
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    f-bom isn't a frame builder. We plan to contract through people who are experienced, like Erik for example, at building frames. We plan to do a BMX frame and a 26 inch DJ frame which will likely be manufactured by Standard Byke Company in Iowa. Erik was great to work with for this frame and when we were working out geometry, he knows his stuff. I am pretty sure he kept me in check as far and making sure I didn't do something stupid. We both were a little questionable about the 72 degree headangle but I really wanted to try it. I was a little worried the bike would feel too twitchy and hard to control, but it didn't. In fact, I feel like I have more control. Keep in mind I am an experienced rider with a strong BMX background........but that is exactly who this bike is designed for. I am not so sure the harcore XC rider/racer type will like it........I guess we'll see once more people ride it.

    I appreciate the advice and yes, I have played with BikeCAD, pretty cool stuff and you can do a BMX bike on there too.....which I found to be pretty cool.

    Like I have said, this bike isn't much different than my On-One Inbred. We basically did a few tweaks we didn't like about that frame which is why I think we got pretty close on this first try. I already have a few orders for this frame. I don't think any geometry will change because they really like the proto. But progress is always moving forward so who knows what the future has in store as far as design, such as headtube size, and such goes...we'll see.

    Off to more riding today..........sweet!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    As I said, good luck. I am trying, believe it or not, to help you. I know Erik and I'm sure he'll do a great job building the frames. Building the frames though, as I said, is the easy part.

    You need to spend some more time working with BikeCAD or some other design program to understand front center/HTA/stem length and how they work. The "length" of the bike (ie, the center of mass relative to the axles/wheelbase) has nothing to do with stem length.

    Genesis geometry is notable for very LONG effective toptubes, btw. And throw your seat tube thing out the window. Nobody in their right mind sizes a frame by seat tube length unless they're at Wally World.

    I applaud your efforts to build in the US and wish you the best of luck. You may want to post over in the framebuilder's forum to get some expert (and not so expert) advice as you continue on this path.

    -Walt

  19. #19
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    We have another prototype coming in a couple of weeks. This one is a BMX frame made by Standard Byke Co. in Davenport, IA. I know this is a mountain bike site, but there are probably some BMX riders on here too.



    Once I get some pics of the actual frame I will post them. We are sponsoring a local ripper named AJ who will ride and test this prototype, and maybe some cool video to come too.

  20. #20
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    http://f-bom.blogspot.com/2011/07/f-...facturing.html

    Some BMX frame pics during the build.

    We are well into testing the MTB frame and should be doing production runs soon. Got a custom dropout design in progress. Once that is done, we should be able to start production.

  21. #21
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    So your company name didn't come from Sinister's old frame model..... Oh...that's right... I see that you spelled it unlike "bomb"..... Guessing that you didn't ask FTW to do any welding for you.....
    EWR-HE-148-11-4-97
    Microbeer's Better!

  22. #22
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    As an ID designer with quite a bit up his sleeve, I can do nothing but whole heartedly agree 100% with what Walt is trying to say to you. It is hard to take advice and Crits, but I think if you review what he said with a business mentality, you will agree with him.

    Also, what makes your bike stand our from a crowd of other bikes better made with far more modern Geo numbers and innovations...?

    I could make a bunch of other comments as advice, but I do not want to just butt in and tell you your business. So I'll just say that you need help, take it from those who know when you can where you can. And stating you have 30+ years riding or what have you, does not make you an expert builder/ designer...thats a dead fact!

    The build is looking interesting so far...keep up the great work. Always great to see others ideas, work and initerpretations on our beloved sport! Sorry, I meant "way of life"!


    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Constructive criticism, from someone who has been there/done that:

    -Your first bike always seems completely awesome, because it's your first bike. That does not mean you should decide the design is perfect and start building dozens of copies. It means you didn't totally blow it, and that you should build some more with different geometry (including things you *don't* think are what you want) and discover what works and doesn't. My first frame was the most awesome bike I had ever ridden - until I built number 2, and number 3, and so on. Designs improve with evolution, and nobody hits the target perfectly on the first try. What would shorter chainstays feel like? Different head angles/toptubes/front centers? Bottom bracket heights?

    -All your friends will want bikes, and it will feel like you are kicking ass as a company before you even start. This is untrue - to be successful, you need to sell bikes to people you don't know, who do not care who you are, and who aren't interested in telling you how great the bike is because they are your friends. So do not get too excited that your pals like the bike. When you run out of bros to sell frames to, you need to have a product that non-bros want.

    -Your geometry is reminiscent of early 90s NORBA geometry in most ways. Old Bontys from then ran 72 HTA and a similar BB height/drop. They were not particularly noted for how well they handled techy stuff at speed (or in the air). Keep in mind that the positioning of the front wheel (front center) and head tube angle are inextricably related. You can build a "slack" bike that actually can be thrown around tight corners very well, if you pay attention to the front center number (throw the ETT crap out the window, that's what different stem lengths are for).

    -Let me say this more clearly: what you have here is a dead-standard 26" hardtail with a 1 degree steeper than normal head tube angle and horizontal dropouts. There are a LOT of bikes out there that are extremely similar.

    -The hucker/BMX/jumper market is not going to go for 1 1/8 head tubes, horizontal drops with slotted disc mounts, etc. Modernize, modernize, modernize. You need to be compatible with tapered steerers, ISCG, probably rear maxle, etc.

    -IMO you are not ready to be taking preorders for anything (one prototype?), but of course you can do whatever you want. Your first step should probably be to go take a small business/accounting class at a local community college. Building the bikes is the easy part (especially if you're having Erik do it) - making money at it is hard.

    Good luck!

    -Walt

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: manual63's Avatar
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    Nov 2006
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    139
    You people are reading more into this than need be.

    It's not like I had this frame manufactured without help or prior knowledge. Like I have said in my post, the Geometry was inspired by an On-One Inbred I loved. I changed a couple of things slightly knowing they would make the On-One ride more how I would like.

    It was also built and designed with a very experienced frame builder. All I am doing is offering something that I have a hard time finding anywhere, especially something that is U.S. Made which is very important for us at f-bom.

    It's a fun frame and those who ride it and like it will likely want to buy it. It's not for everyone though......it's more for the person "like myself" who is familiar with the handling of a BMX bike and wants a mountain bike frame that doesn't put their body and weight up over the front wheel as soon as they stand up on it to jump, ride an obstacle, climb, or any other reason you would stand. The long top tube and short stem accomplish that quite nicely. I find the bike so much less scary than the Surly 1 x 1 I used to own that needed a 110mm stem on it to fit me right.......ugh! Not to mention the Surly is made in Taiwan.

    Thanks for the advice though. I am not taking a blind eye to it......but I am also not looking for advice either, just trying to post about my frame like everyone else on here.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sim2u View Post
    As an ID designer with quite a bit up his sleeve, I can do nothing but whole heartedly agree 100% with what Walt is trying to say to you. It is hard to take advice and Crits, but I think if you review what he said with a business mentality, you will agree with him.

    Also, what makes your bike stand our from a crowd of other bikes better made with far more modern Geo numbers and innovations...?

    I could make a bunch of other comments as advice, but I do not want to just butt in and tell you your business. So I'll just say that you need help, take it from those who know when you can where you can. And stating you have 30+ years riding or what have you, does not make you an expert builder/ designer...thats a dead fact!

    The build is looking interesting so far...keep up the great work. Always great to see others ideas, work and initerpretations on our beloved sport! Sorry, I meant "way of life"!
    Last edited by manual63; 08-04-2011 at 08:02 AM.

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