Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GhisalloWheels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    518

    Double Barrel on the XCL revisited

    I know there was some talk about a Cane Creek Double Barrel on an XCL earlier, I'm wondering if anyone followed through and put one on? I am thinking about making the jump, but its a big commitment. I am looking at dumping the DHX air for something a bit smoother over the chatter. But am wondering with the CCDB if I could get the best of both worlds, no bob and small bumps smoothed out.


    Also, anyone else running another coil shock? How's the small bump compliance? Does climbing suffer (if you ignore the extra weight)?

    thanks.
    Cycle tracks will abound in Utopia. ~H.G. Wells

  2. #2
    nerfherder
    Reputation: scruffylooking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,677
    Email or call the Chumba office. Ted, the designer, ran an XCL with a CCDB. My testride on grass and pavement didn't really tell me anything useful to pass along.

  3. #3
    Flying Goat
    Reputation: mrpercussive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    11,329
    Not too sure about the XCL, but i rode with Hardway 2 days ago and he had a CCDB on his Evo... He seems to like it... XD

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hardway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    774
    CCDB is awesome, I love it, and it works WAY better than the dhx air. I'm a bigger rider, 230+ with gear, I think that makes a difference in the dhx a's performance. Lighter riders would probably like it more.
    I never tried another coil shock on this bike, so I can't compare performance/value against anything but the dhx a.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: neilster1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    189
    I'm running a DHX coil.. and the comment on heavier riders on the dhx air is spot on. At 250# riding weight my xcl climbs like a billy goat, no discernible pedal bob and it is plush like a cadillac. the DHX-air.. not so much. Heavier riders seem to find that there just isn't anything there to support you in the middle of that shock's stroke.

    The CCDB is an awesome shock.. I know a bunch of guys who run them on Turners and Ventanas and they can't say enough good things about it. I spent my cash on wheels so there wasn't anything left for shocks.

  6. #6
    Mmmm Rocks Good
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    641

    5th Element Coil on mine

    Quote Originally Posted by chumbacabra
    I know there was some talk about a Cane Creek Double Barrel on an XCL earlier, I'm wondering if anyone followed through and put one on? I am thinking about making the jump, but its a big commitment. I am looking at dumping the DHX air for something a bit smoother over the chatter. But am wondering with the CCDB if I could get the best of both worlds, no bob and small bumps smoothed out.


    Also, anyone else running another coil shock? How's the small bump compliance? Does climbing suffer (if you ignore the extra weight)?

    thanks.
    When I run in the rocks, on my XCL, I really prefer my 5th element Coilover to my RP23 Super plush and easy to adjust the platform. Great shock but she does weigh a bit! Taking it out this weekend for the Rattling Creek Single Trackers BASH in Lykens, Pa. with the 5th on it, because of all the rocks.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GhisalloWheels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    518
    Quote Originally Posted by neilster1
    I'm running a DHX coil.. and the comment on heavier riders on the dhx air is spot on. At 250# riding weight my xcl climbs like a billy goat, no discernible pedal bob and it is plush like a cadillac. the DHX-air.. not so much. Heavier riders seem to find that there just isn't anything there to support you in the middle of that shock's stroke.

    The CCDB is an awesome shock.. I know a bunch of guys who run them on Turners and Ventanas and they can't say enough good things about it. I spent my cash on wheels so there wasn't anything left for shocks.
    I ride at about 235 lbs. So it seems the feeling here is that I may be happier with a coil. I will look into my options. I would like to get the CCDB, but it obviously is pretty pricey. ON the other hand, if I sell my DHX I should be able to get about $150 (does that sound right?), then I only need to come up with another $450. Ohh that still is a lot of money. I gotta figure how to sneak this one by the wife.
    Cycle tracks will abound in Utopia. ~H.G. Wells

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    134
    Quote Originally Posted by chumbacabra
    I ride at about 235 lbs. So it seems the feeling here is that I may be happier with a coil. I will look into my options. I would like to get the CCDB, but it obviously is pretty pricey. ON the other hand, if I sell my DHX I should be able to get about $150 (does that sound right?), then I only need to come up with another $450. Ohh that still is a lot of money. I gotta figure how to sneak this one by the wife.
    I replaced my DHX air with an '09 Fox VanR. My XCL is like a completely different bike now compared to when the DHX air was on it. I do wish I would have bought the DHX coil but at the time the money was tight. With gear on I'm about 220lb.

    I put my DHX air on Ebay with a "buy it now" for $250 and free shipping and it sold about three hours after listing it.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GhisalloWheels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    518
    Quote Originally Posted by PaMtnBkr
    When I run in the rocks, on my XCL, I really prefer my 5th element Coilover to my RP23 Super plush and easy to adjust the platform. Great shock but she does weigh a bit! Taking it out this weekend for the Rattling Creek Single Trackers BASH in Lykens, Pa. with the 5th on it, because of all the rocks.
    How was mounting 5th element on your bike. What bushings or spacers were needed? Also do you know of anyone who does servicing on it?
    Cycle tracks will abound in Utopia. ~H.G. Wells

  10. #10
    Mmmm Rocks Good
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    641

    It's a direct swap

    Quote Originally Posted by chumbacabra
    How was mounting 5th element on your bike. What bushings or spacers were needed? Also do you know of anyone who does servicing on it?
    The 5th uses that exact same spacers/bushings as the Fox! It literally takes 5 minutes to swap them out! So far as service goes?????? I think Hippy Tech may do work on them and it may be possible to get Manitou to work on them? But not totally sure? 5th Element sold it's proprietary info to Manitou but I am not sure if they duplicated the design?

  11. #11
    banned
    Reputation: Jerk_Chicken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,480
    Are you sure about that? I thought the 5th used the spherical bushing setup. Zoke uses Fox hardware, I believe.

    And your info on 5th and Manitou is incorrect. Curnutt is the originator of their particular tech. 5th licensed some of the patents, and so did Manitou. They are similar, absolutely, but the tech came from Curnutt and is a partial interpretation of his CV/t designs.

  12. #12
    Mmmm Rocks Good
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    641

    Yup! I'm sure!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Are you sure about that? I thought the 5th used the spherical bushing setup. Zoke uses Fox hardware, I believe.

    And your info on 5th and Manitou is incorrect. Curnutt is the originator of their particular tech. 5th licensed some of the patents, and so did Manitou. They are similar, absolutely, but the tech came from Curnutt and is a partial interpretation of his CV/t designs.
    Nope, the 5th uses the same Fox system. I know this for a fact since I just swapped over the shocks last PM to get ready for our big trip. I believe that DT Swiss was the ones using the spherical bearings/bushings. Thanks for clearing up the 5th/Manitou info. I do know I really like my 5th Element (coil over) a lot on my XCL! I don't run it as much as I do my RP23 but for really rocky tech stuff I prefer the coil over the air for plushness, especially at low speed.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: wankel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    550
    It's the 5th Element Air shock that uses the spherical bushings...which are a pain in the ass to find now. I still have one one my Yeti 575.

  14. #14
    banned
    Reputation: Jerk_Chicken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,480
    I didn't read close enough and assumed it was the Air, yes.

  15. #15
    I bike long tyme.
    Reputation: Secace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,092
    I run a TST Roco on mine and definitely prefer it over the DHX Air.
    Last edited by Secace; 09-11-2008 at 06:28 AM.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GhisalloWheels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    518
    Quote Originally Posted by Secace
    I run a TST Roco on mine and definitely prefer it over the DHX Air.
    Do you find yourself using the TST function often? I think that is the only thing keeping me from getting the CCDB. It sure seems like it would be more versatile if your could adjust the low speed compression without tools, effectively giving you a platform.
    Cycle tracks will abound in Utopia. ~H.G. Wells

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hardway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    774
    I worried about not having any platform with the db, but you can tune out pedal bob so well with the shock, it's a non-factor. On my evo anyway.
    I think that the negatives for the db are price and difficulty of adjustment. It's not really difficult, just requires more time and attention than other shocks. You can really find your personal sweet spot though.

  18. #18
    I bike long tyme.
    Reputation: Secace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,092
    Quote Originally Posted by chumbacabra
    Do you find yourself using the TST function often? I think that is the only thing keeping me from getting the CCDB. It sure seems like it would be more versatile if your could adjust the low speed compression without tools, effectively giving you a platform.
    By tools, I'm assuming you mean the TST switch. I almost always run it wide open and never even mess with it. In the open position, it still pedals effectively with the only noticeable action happening when you stand to mash on it. Even then it doesn't bother me that much. And if you need to switch it, it is easily reached while moving.

    One note: The XCL comes specced from Chumba with a 2.0" stroke shock. The shortest stroke the Roco is available in is 2.25". I was reluctant to drop the coin on it thinking there might be clearance issues but after working the stroke/travel numbers on the frame it looked like it might go....and it did. Based on my experience, a 2.25" stroke shock will fit an XCL no prob. Here is a photo of the 2.25" Roco bottomed out with ample room left for a little rubber bumper compression. The tire is a 2.35" Kenda Kinetics.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  19. #19
    banned
    Reputation: Jerk_Chicken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,480
    You have to compress the bumper more to properly evaluate full compression.

  20. #20
    I bike long tyme.
    Reputation: Secace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,092
    I know this, that's why I stated there is additional room for additional rubber bumper compression. I put all my body weight on it and smashed it as far as I could and I still couldn't get the tire to rub. If you're bottoming out that hard anyways, you probably need to make an adjustment. Especially since you're gaining more travel.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hardway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    774
    Quote Originally Posted by Secace
    By tools, I'm assuming you mean the TST switch. I almost always run it wide open and never even mess with it. In the open position, it still pedals effectively with the only noticeable action happening when you stand to mash on it. Even then it doesn't bother me that much. And if you need to switch it, it is easily reached while moving.

    One note: The XCL comes specced from Chumba with a 2.0" stroke shock. The shortest stroke the Roco is available in is 2.25". I was reluctant to drop the coin on it thinking there might be clearance issues but after working the stroke/travel numbers on the frame it looked like it might go....and it did. Based on my experience, a 2.25" stroke shock will fit an XCL no prob. Here is a photo of the 2.25" Roco bottomed out with ample room left for a little rubber bumper compression. The tire is a 2.35" Kenda Kinetics.
    What's going on with the chain in that bike behind your xcl?

  22. #22
    I bike long tyme.
    Reputation: Secace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,092
    Quote Originally Posted by hardway
    What's going on with the chain in that bike behind your xcl?

    That's my Canfield Formula One. The chain routes through an idler pulley. The pulley is used to relocate the pivot point and is critical to minimizing chain growth due to the aggressive rearward travel path. It also helps eliminate pedal kickback during fast/hard compression hits. You can pedal full force through a rock garden and never feel it at the cranks.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GhisalloWheels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    518
    Quote Originally Posted by Secace
    By tools, I'm assuming you mean the TST switch. I almost always run it wide open and never even mess with it. In the open position, it still pedals effectively with the only noticeable action happening when you stand to mash on it. Even then it doesn't bother me that much. And if you need to switch it, it is easily reached while moving.

    One note: The XCL comes specced from Chumba with a 2.0" stroke shock. The shortest stroke the Roco is available in is 2.25". I was reluctant to drop the coin on it thinking there might be clearance issues but after working the stroke/travel numbers on the frame it looked like it might go....and it did. Based on my experience, a 2.25" stroke shock will fit an XCL no prob. Here is a photo of the 2.25" Roco bottomed out with ample room left for a little rubber bumper compression. The tire is a 2.35" Kenda Kinetics.

    I'm leaning toward getting the CCDB. The next question becomes ....... get a 7.875 X 2" or get 7.9875 X 2.25"?
    Have you noticed any disadvantage with the longer stroke? Are there any noticeable advantages? Why not get a little more travel? Would that make it 5.625" of travel?
    Cycle tracks will abound in Utopia. ~H.G. Wells

  24. #24
    I bike long tyme.
    Reputation: Secace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,092
    Quote Originally Posted by chumbacabra
    I'm leaning toward getting the CCDB. The next question becomes ....... get a 7.875 X 2" or get 7.9875 X 2.25"?
    Have you noticed any disadvantage with the longer stroke? Are there any noticeable advantages? Why not get a little more travel? Would that make it 5.625" of travel?
    I've noticed no disadvantage at all. The only pertinent advantage I gained was the fact that I could run the Roco which is what I wanted to use. I really don't notice the increase in travel when riding. The geometry with the 7.875" x 2.25" remains untouched. I can't imagine the 7.9875" x 2.25" would affect the geo that much....if at all considering sag.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •