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  1. #1
    PSI
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    dh bike? RANT (with Q at the end) xpost from turner board

    xpost from turner board... dont let the homers dis yer F5!:

    comes a time in every growth-suspended-manchild's life that he realizes that what he really needs is a proper DH bike...

    OK. i little history. i have a flux for xc and lightish trail riding and an overbuilt spot for almost everything else. never understood the need for rfx class bikes, just seemed not-there-not-here kinda deal. seemed like a proper gap-up would be a highline class bike. in my case for the last year+ its been a budget conscience bighit with a wonderful 66 ata up front. i thought i would use it for more pedal-to-the-top stuff (and i did - only took me a few more minutes on average vs. the spot), but over time i found that i enjoyed it most for lift assisted stuff. so i start to warm up to the idea (and expenditure) that in that case it might as well be a proper DH rig. i mean, i have all the dh gear anyways and it seems my crew is committed to a once-in-a-life-time-Whistler-pilgrimage next summer, so what the hell? its just money!!!. so now the perfect spread is - lightish flux - burly spot - dhr.

    now, no one would be happier than me to have a pure turner full house, but the local turner guy happens to be the local chumba guy and he's having a big frame sale - to keep it short - i can get a F5 with a floating brake for $800 less than a DHR. the frames look like almost identical twins - virtually the same geo and scissor-link thing activated rear suspension. both are brands i dig and i get the floater for free with the f5 (yes, being a xc, dh wannabe i have major brake jack fear issues)

    sooo, anyone knows the pros and cons? anyone with experience on both frames? ride a dhr and have buddies that ride f5?

    any info will be appreciated! help me get through my second (or third?) mid life crises!

  2. #2
    WWJR
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    Seems like the discussion over there is right on! Most users/posters start out by sayin, "I dont have any ride time on a Chumba, but..."

    Remember, opinions are like a-holes (you know the rest).

    ...and for my "cocky" statement of the day: "Hell, I can prolly kick 1/2 those DH'er fawkers azz'z on my XCL !"

  3. #3
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    For $800 more, why would you go with the DHR? You can buy the F5 and most of the Whistler trip for the same price, seems like a no brainer.
    Plus, having all your bikes by the same company, if you're not a team rider, is pretty ridiculous. That's like staying true to the same prostitute.
    There's a lot of good bike companies out there, spread the love, get some strange!
    Last edited by hardway; 08-25-2008 at 07:36 AM.

  4. #4
    Flying Goat
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    was pretty much in the same boat with you. Been racing an FR bike for the past year or so and though it is doable, it's totally different from a pure DH race rig. I have considered both the Turner and the F5 along with many other bikes like the Izimu, Shockwave and such and the more i think about it, the F5 always seemed to come out at the top. Both the DHR and F5 are linkage driven single pivots which imo are the best out there and though some may dispute that the F5 would be more flexy compared to the DHR due to the single swingarm design instead of the solid rear triangle, you should ask yourself about why motos are still using this design? Also the floater is definitely sweet...

    Between the DHR and the F5, they're both very capable no bs performing rigs. Even then i would pick the F5. And still, at $800 less, i'd say your decision should be a no brainer... XD

    Still waiting for citibank to process my deposits. Wished there were more than 5 business days a week. Would be putting in an order for my F5 today...

  5. #5
    PSI
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    Quote Originally Posted by hullendersauce

    ...and for my "cocky" statement of the day: "Hell, I can prolly kick 1/2 those DH'er fawkers azz'z on my XCL !"

    bah, i can do that with my flux....

  6. #6
    PSI
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardway
    having all your bikes by the same company... is pretty ridiculous.
    homers are ridiculous my love to my turners is pathological

    Quote Originally Posted by hardway
    spread the love, get some strange!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpercussive
    I have considered both the Turner and the F5 along with many other bikes like the Izimu, Shockwave and such and the more i think about it, the F5 always seemed to come out at the top....
    Are you sponsored by Chumba?

  8. #8
    Flying Goat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat tyres
    Are you sponsored by Chumba?
    Not yet as i have not signed the contract just yet. Note though that i also applied and was offered sponsorships with other companies but i chose to go with Chumba...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpercussive
    Not yet as i have not signed the contract just yet. Note though that i also applied and was offered sponsorships with other companies but i chose to go with Chumba...
    Oh, ok - I thought you were sponsored by chumba and mentioned Turner and Morewood as good alternatives, you might want to edit that.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSI
    You can walk straight up the back side with a pair of 5.10's -

  11. #11
    Flying Goat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat tyres
    Oh, ok - I thought you were sponsored by chumba and mentioned Turner and Morewood as good alternatives, you might want to edit that.
    I'm saying the Turner and the Morewood are also solid performing bikes... but the F5 came up on the top among all that i've considered... XD

    Quote Originally Posted by Flat tyres
    You can walk straight up the back side with a pair of 5.10's -
    I hear ya... I run Marzocchi 5.10 as my walking shoes...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpercussive

    I hear ya... I run Marzocchi 5.10 as my walking shoes...
    Those are some fugly ass shoes bro, I'll stick to my Etnies.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardway
    Those are some fugly ass shoes bro, I'll stick to my Etnies.
    to each his own. I think they're pretty cool. haha. I like to be able to jump on any bike anytime and be able to ride the pumptrack in the back yard... XD I normally cant ride flats for sh1t but the 5.10s make it possible... XD

  14. #14
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    so has anyone posted about a real DH race experience on a DHR or F5? found a ton of posts that claim are the most badass DH bikes available, but I haven't found a real ride report on an F5 or a single bit of information comparing pros and cons of the two after sifting through 10 bazillion thrunted up thread hijackers post about their manicures.

    so frustrating browsing the interweb for solid opinions.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub
    so has anyone posted about a real DH race experience on a DHR or F5? found a ton of posts that claim are the most badass DH bikes available, but I haven't found a real ride report on an F5 or a single bit of information comparing pros and cons of the two after sifting through 10 bazillion thrunted up thread hijackers post about their manicures.

    so frustrating browsing the interweb for solid opinions.
    Just ordered an F5. Will let you know once i have some time on it though i'm sure i'll love it. I do have some friends over at SF Dirtlab who have quite some time on their F5s. They've been racing Northstar and such and love their F5s...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpercussive
    you should ask yourself about why motos are still using this design? ...
    Mainly because there's a motor in the way and the shock has to be orientated vertically to make room for it (the shocks are massive and can not intrude on the front-triangle area).

    Generally a triangulated rear end is stiffer. It's not to say you can't make a single-member swingarm stiff, but it requires a much bigger structure than one would usually think necessary. Rocky Mountain had this problem with the RM-series bikes like the RM6 and RM7.

    Not to detract from the F5 though, I think it's a sweet bike. The only other possible issue are the highly-loaded/leveraged parts of the swing-linkage. It's not to say that the F5 has a problem with this, it's just that this is a very critical area on that type of a bike and it has to be done correctly. The DHR has "bigger" linkages in the same area, but could also have the same general issue, so again they have to be "designed correctly". The moto-linkage on my cheeta was designed poorly in this regard, but it sure looked "moto".

    I think designs like the F5 and DHR are pretty much where it's at for DH bikes that come with single-ring setups. With a single-ring setup you can design a single-pivot bike so that the chainline comes close to the pivot, and with the linkage you can set up an optimum rate. The single-pivot bikes that do not have linkages are at a disadvantage when it comes to stiffness usually, as well as the right amount of progression throughout the travel. There are simply way more possibilities for tuning rate with a linkage bike. It's not that you can't do better with some suspension designs like the DW link and Maestro, but the pivot systems in some of those bikes (IH) are not always designed very well and even though it may be "better", it's only marginally so because a DH bike doesn't have to work decently over a range of front-ring sizes, it only has to work well for one front-ring size.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  17. #17
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    The main swinglink pivot on the F5 uses a cartridge bearing system with an oversized axle to prevent premature wear issues.
    Simple | Proven | Reliable

    http://chumbaracing.blogspot.com/

  18. #18
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    The main swinglink pivot on the F5 uses a cartridge bearing system with an oversized axle to prevent premature wear issues.
    Well, cart bearings doesn't really mean much by itself. Needle bearings, angular contact (tapered) bearings, and so on mean a lot for lateral rigidity where lots of rotation is required, but they are themselves not "required", cart bearings can work fine, but the name itself doesn't really imply anything about lateral rigidity or bearing life (how loaded the pivots are). If they are oversize (well that doesn't make sense, either they are sized adequately or not, but "oversize" implys that something smaller would be adequate) then that is also good, and possibly means less wear. My poing though was that this interface has to be designed correctly, and I do not want to imply that a system that I do not know is designed incorrectly, just that it's a critical interface with this type of a bike, and I've seen examples of incorrectly designed ones.

    "Cartridge bearing" has become a buzz-word in the MTB world that doesn't mean much of anything, and in some mtb applications it's not even the best bearing/bushing for the job.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  19. #19
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    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Well, cart bearings doesn't really mean much by itself. Needle bearings, angular contact (tapered) bearings, and so on mean a lot for lateral rigidity where lots of rotation is required, but they are themselves not "required", cart bearings can work fine, but the name itself doesn't really imply anything about lateral rigidity or bearing life (how loaded the pivots are). If they are oversize (well that doesn't make sense, either they are sized adequately or not, but "oversize" implys that something smaller would be adequate) then that is also good, and possibly means less wear. My poing though was that this interface has to be designed correctly, and I do not want to imply that a system that I do not know is designed incorrectly, just that it's a critical interface with this type of a bike, and I've seen examples of incorrectly designed ones.

    "Cartridge bearing" has become a buzz-word in the MTB world that doesn't mean much of anything, and in some mtb applications it's not even the best bearing/bushing for the job.
    Hi Jayem,

    In our experience, the swinglink pivot issue only posed a rigidity problem when there was excessive wear leading to play. Please note I am only speaking for the F5 - I am not familiar with the Rocky Mountain or DHR.

    The system as it is currently designed on the F5 uses the bearing for pivot rotation on the oversized axle (as for semantics - I use the term oversized because a smaller axle would work but that's not to say a larger diameter one might be more desirable for durability, strength, and rigidity). As it stands now - we've had racers use the current configuration for two race seasons without any indication of problems.
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  20. #20
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    It looks and sounds good. As I said before I like the design.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpercussive
    Just ordered an F5. Will let you know once i have some time on it though i'm sure i'll love it. I do have some friends over at SF Dirtlab who have quite some time on their F5s. They've been racing Northstar and such and love their F5s...
    Something tells me you're going to say you love it no matter what.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Something tells me you're going to say you love it no matter what.
    Kind of like you on a Turner?

  23. #23
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    I had to buy mine a few years ago. The GF's was used also and even older than mine. Unfortunately, Turner doesn't pay me to say I like his stuff. I can only wish.

    Percussive is also getting heat elsewhere from the management and users because he already started peddling Chumba, even before he rode his and not declaring clearly his sponsorship in said posts. That was the implication. He's sponsored and Chumba's management is watching him on the forums, so of course he's going to speak highly of the F5 and peddle the bikes.

    Maybe since Chumba is in this thread they can tell him to stop selling because he's going to get called out by many. It was the same case when he was riding Ibex.

  24. #24
    The White Jeff W
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I had to buy mine a few years ago. The GF's was used also and even older than mine. Unfortunately, Turner doesn't pay me to say I like his stuff. I can only wish.

    Percussive is also getting heat elsewhere from the management and users because he already started peddling Chumba, even before he rode his and not declaring clearly his sponsorship in said posts. That was the implication. He's sponsored and Chumba's management is watching him on the forums, so of course he's going to speak highly of the F5 and peddle the bikes.

    Maybe since Chumba is in this thread they can tell him to stop selling because he's going to get called out by many. It was the same case when he was riding Ibex.

    You're just a bundle of sunshine, aren't you. Get used to it Chumba boards. The sheriff is in town.
    Last edited by jeffw-13; 09-02-2008 at 02:34 PM.
    No moss...

  25. #25
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    I don't understand why this board resembles a grade school playground. Who cares if a guy has a full on or limited sponsorship? I've never heard of the guy. Has he podiumed on a WC? If he got a free bike or a good price on a bike, so what? Most people will brag about their dodge trucks all day long even though the disc brakes need replaced every year. I think a biased opinion is the norm and want to hear reasons to why it performs a certain way.

    It's been impossible to find any negative remarks about the F5, and frustrating to weed through all the MSG board BS to try and find an objective opinion between other peoples agendas or just need to be heard.

    I know there aren't a ton of them on the market so the reviews are going to be limited. But I'd really like to hear how stiff the rear end is, does the front of the bike flex, what does it do better than a DHR or worse? Why this bike instead of a demo 8? I'm trying to selll this frame to myself but cannot pull the trigger because I like the DHR, had a great time on a borrowed Sunday, and a VP free. But I also want to buy a made in N america boutique frame, because I prefer to give my money to a boutique than Walmart.

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