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Thread: Dean/Ionic

  1. #1
    Fat Boy Deluxe
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well Dean/Ionic

    Many know what I have been through waiting for my new Ionic Johnny Rotten to arrive. For those who don't and are planning on ordering one, while I will not try and discourage you, read my experience and take it how you will.

    After exactly 18 long weeks of waiting for the bike, it shipped out to me on Monday, Feb. 9. It was supposed to arrive tomorrow, but was arriving a whole day earlier, today (Thursday, Feb. 12)! I had a lot of thinking going on in between the order and the shipping. Most people told me that you should expect a long wait from custom builders and especially from Dean, and especially if they tell you it's only going to be 4 weeks (which is what I was told).

    But after doing all my thinking and then looking at what they charged me, I came to one conclusion, something isn't right. The frame on sale is supposed to cost $550, plus $50 for the EBB/Disc option, so that's $600 for the frame. I was originially quoted $75 for the red to orange fade paint job, but was told after it was already at paint that it would be $150. Come to find out they charged me $200 for the paint. So now that's $800. Then they charged me shipping, which was an extra $25, even though they said they would waive the shipping costs and expedite it since it so long to get it done (18 weeks). So the final price was $825.

    Couple the pricing issues with the fact that every time I called it was only going to be one more week and one more week and one more week, and there are problems with the painter, and it should be here this week to ship, and one more week, and it is being treated as priority (I should add here that both Pete and James were extremely nice and helpful over the phone and I have no ill will towards either of them), and you can now see the position I was in.

    At 2:45pm I made a desperate call to Dean to find out their policy on refunds. They were willing to refund the overcharge for the paint and refund the shipping. While this would have cleared up the whole price issue, the waiting was still in me head, what if I have a warranty issue of some kind, will it be 5 months before I get the bike back? I told them what I really wanted to do was refuse the UPS package and have it returned to Dean for a full refund. They said if that's what you really want to do, then send the bike back and we will refund the money.

    10 minutes later the UPS man shows up with the frame in box. I refuse the delivery and he wisks it away. I really wish I had been able to see the frame just once. People tell you that the waiting you go through for a custom job is part of the game and it can be painfull, well this was more than painfull and I basically came to the conclusion I can't support a builder with that kind of customer service and who handles their business that way, no matter how well they build a frame. I would have been bitter everytime someone asked how I liked the bike or how it rides, etc. Sometimes the principle of the matter is just as important.

    So that's my experience, take it or leave it. While I am disappointed I won't be building my new bike this weekend, my conscious is much happier with the decision I have made. back to the drawing board.

    *I will add that I am very grateful Dean was willing to let me refuse the UPS delivery and opt for a full refund, at least that was a stand up move.

    DT
    Last edited by DmofoT; 02-12-2004 at 03:14 PM. Reason: addition

  2. #2
    giddy up!
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    Good for you.....

    I just recently cancelled a frame that I had on order with them for many of the same reasons......wait times, leg pulling, outright lying, more leg pulling, etc....

    What caused me to finally pull the plug on the frame was this: I would rather spend 2x the price of a dean to get a frame built by a professional who cares about the customer at the time of purchase, and years down the road....I don't feel that dean can provide this type of attention to their frames, or their customers....

    There are alot of frame builders out there, many with prices as good as deans......do some research....ask around for peoples personal experiences with the builder.....here are a few that seem to have really good reputations....

    vulture, kelly, moots, seven, strong, hunter, spicer, sycip, and others



    Quote Originally Posted by DmofoT
    Many know what I have been through waiting for my new Ionic Johnny Rotten to arrive. For those who don't and are planning on ordering one, while I will not try and discourage you, read my experience and take it how you will.

    After exactly 18 long weeks of waiting for the bike, it shipped out to me on Monday, Feb. 9. It was supposed to arrive tomorrow, but was arriving a whole day earlier, today (Thursday, Feb. 12)! I had a lot of thinking going on in between the order and the shipping. Most people told me that you should expect a long wait from custom builders and especially from Dean, and especially if they tell you it's only going to be 4 weeks (which is what I was told).

    But after doing all my thinking and then looking at what they charged me, I came to one conclusion, something isn't right. The frame on sale is supposed to cost $550, plus $50 for the EBB/Disc option, so that's $600 for the frame. I was originially quoted $75 for the red to orange fade paint job, but was told after it was already at paint that it would be $150. Come to find out they charged me $200 for the paint. So now that's $800. Then they charged me shipping, which was an extra $25, even though they said they would waive the shipping costs and expedite it since it so long to get it done (18 weeks). So the final price was $825.

    Couple the pricing issues with the fact that every time I called it was only going to be one more week and one more week and one more week, and there are problems with the painter, and it should be here this week to ship, and one more week, and it is being treated as priority (I should add here that both Pete and James were extremely nice and helpful over the phone and I have no ill will towards either of them), and you can now see the position I was in.

    At 2:45pm I made a desperate call to Dean to find out their policy on refunds. They were willing to refund the overcharge for the paint and refund the shipping. While this would have cleared up the whole price issue, the waiting was still in me head, what if I have a warranty issue of some kind, will it be 5 months before I get the bike back? I told them what I really wanted to do was refuse the UPS package and have it returned to Dean for a full refund. They said if that's what you really want to do, then send the bike back and we will refund the money.

    10 minutes later the UPS man shows up with the frame in box. I refuse the delivery and he wisks it away. I really wish I had been able to see the frame just once. People tell you that the waiting you go through for a custom job is part of the game and it can be painfull, well this was more than painfull and I basically came to the conclusion I can't support a builder with that kind of customer service and who handles their business that way, no matter how well they build a frame. I would have been bitter everytime someone asked how I liked the bike or how it rides, etc. Sometimes the principle of the matter is just as important.

    So that's my experience, take it or leave it. While I am disappointed I won't be building my new bike this weekend, my conscious is much happier with the decision I have made. back to the drawing board.

    DT

  3. #3
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    I also had a similar experience, but with a company who brags about their customer service. I ordered a Titus in early February a few years back (2002). I was told the wait time was about a month. Received the frame in May after many phone calls and lies. Finally I was told by their customer service that I should just feel lucky that I finally received the frame. Guess what I thought about that comment. I had a really hard time riding or liking the bike after that eventhough the bike was really good.

    I ordered an Ionic JR custom frame a few days before Christmas and it arrived 5 weeks later. The workmanship is perfect and the paint is really incredible. Pete and John were wonderful to work with. I was a little worried after reading all the negitive experiences people have had with Ionic, but I personally would have a hard time not recommending this company. The frame is awesome, customer service was great, and the price is really hard to beat.

    I guess all companies run into problems, but it looks like Ionic has got their act together, at least in my case.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #4
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    Nice!

    Nice looking Rotten man! I'm glad you had such a good experience. If mine had gone like yours, I'm sure I would be showing mine off too and would recommend them. We all can't be winners in the game though. Now go get some dirt on it!

    DT

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmer
    I also had a similar experience, but with a company who brags about their customer service. I ordered a Titus in early February a few years back (2002). I was told the wait time was about a month. Received the frame in May after many phone calls and lies. Finally I was told by their customer service that I should just feel lucky that I finally received the frame. Guess what I thought about that comment. I had a really hard time riding or liking the bike after that eventhough the bike was really good.

    I ordered an Ionic JR custom frame a few days before Christmas and it arrived 5 weeks later. The workmanship is perfect and the paint is really incredible. Pete and John were wonderful to work with. I was a little worried after reading all the negitive experiences people have had with Ionic, but I personally would have a hard time not recommending this company. The frame is awesome, customer service was great, and the price is really hard to beat.

    I guess all companies run into problems, but it looks like Ionic has got their act together, at least in my case.

  5. #5
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    Good job! Follow-Up

    As a follow-up to my situation:

    I called Dean today to start dealing with my refund. I spoke to John and everything is as it should be. He talked me through the whole refund process and how it would work. He also made sure I understood first off that there was no illwill and that they were sorry things turned out the way they did and that he hoped if there was anything they could do in future to give him a call. By giving me a full refund, they aren't just biting the frame, but a custom paint job by Spectrum (red to orange fade, front to back) and shipping both ways. I know they did the right thing and I respect that.

    So as it happens though, if anyone is in the market for a super nice disc specific, equipped with EBB, Johnny Rotten, with slick custom paint job, and you don't want to wait for it - call Dean and speak to John about it. I'm sure he can hook you right up as soon as UPS delivers the frame back to them.

    DT

  6. #6
    Jed Peters
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    I know about waiting on frames, believe me.

    But it was only going to be $750? (I think, after refunds, right?) and you returned it?

    Dude, you mussed up!

  7. #7
    giddy up!
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    I'd say he did the right thing....

    even if the frame was $550, or even $450. Who wants to ride a frame built by a company with the worst customer service reputation in the biz....There are certain companys that I will never support, DEAN is one of them......

    There are plenty of reliable honest framebuilders out there, let's support them!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zonic Man
    I know about waiting on frames, believe me.

    But it was only going to be $750? (I think, after refunds, right?) and you returned it?

    Dude, you mussed up!

  8. #8
    Sublime Absurdity
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    No good I don't think that you played fair with Dean here...

    It seems to me that, yes, they took too long to deliver your frame and maybe there was a price misquote (I dunno though - it seems like it is your responsibility to make sure you know exactly what you are paying for up front). If you had called Dean before they shipped the bike out for a custom paint job and cancelled the order, that would be reasonable because they took much longer than they quoted, but you waited until the last fricking minute when the bike was at your doorstep to cancel? I am surprised that they didn't make you eat the paintjob and the shipping.

    It seems ironic that you and others are knocking them for bad customer service when they went way above and beyond to resolve your problem. This is a shining example of "the customer is always right - even when he is being an A$$!"

    So, all that said, I got my Dean Colnel xlite a month ago and yeah, it took 8 weeks instead of 4. Oh well - that's why I ordered it during winter.

    I have heard many reports of fast and honest warranty service. The only thing that I have to worry about is them going out of business because they have to deal with purchasers like you who should have just bought a mass market bike and left a small company like that alone...
    Wave upon wave of demented avengers
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  9. #9
    giddy up!
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    I don't think dean has played fair with the rest of us!

    You are in the lucky minority who got their frame in a reasonable time, i.e. 8 weeks.....the rest of us waited 15-18, after being quoted 4-5...all the while being lied to....not mislead, LIED to....there is NO excuse for that....

    I am glad that you had a good experience with them....the rest of us did not, and will choose to spend our money with a respectable builder.

    I hope that all the negative press does cause DEAN to wake up...but I don't think it will....it has been going on for soo long, I don't see it changing anytime soon...too bad, they make a nice bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by sodade
    It seems to me that, yes, they took too long to deliver your frame and maybe there was a price misquote (I dunno though - it seems like it is your responsibility to make sure you know exactly what you are paying for up front). If you had called Dean before they shipped the bike out for a custom paint job and cancelled the order, that would be reasonable because they took much longer than they quoted, but you waited until the last fricking minute when the bike was at your doorstep to cancel? I am surprised that they didn't make you eat the paintjob and the shipping.

    It seems ironic that you and others are knocking them for bad customer service when they went way above and beyond to resolve your problem. This is a shining example of "the customer is always right - even when he is being an A$$!"

    So, all that said, I got my Dean Colnel xlite a month ago and yeah, it took 8 weeks instead of 4. Oh well - that's why I ordered it during winter.

    I have heard many reports of fast and honest warranty service. The only thing that I have to worry about is them going out of business because they have to deal with purchasers like you who should have just bought a mass market bike and left a small company like that alone...

  10. #10
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    thats one of the reasons why theyre still a small company.
    hey
    ho
    lets go!

  11. #11
    Sublime Absurdity
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    I totally agree that blatant lies are bad and it does sound like it has been happening more than a little, but it just seems like the original poster was trying to get revenge or something. If I had been obviously lied to about a ship date, I would have cancelled the order BEFORE it went out for a custom paint job, and BEFORE it shows up at my door. What was the point of refusing the shipment? Here the bike was at your door - finally, they came through and you bailed on it?! It just sounds like buyer's remorse. And hey, I can relate - I dropped $1500 for my Dean and all the while that I was waiting for it, I was out riding my Truth thinking that maybe I really didn't need a HT, but now I have both bikes and the Dean is a kick A$$ frame.

    Obviously, Dean needs to clear up this PR issue and stop lying to customers. They are clearly struggling with some issues. It can't be good for them to get a rep as a super late shipper, but their #1 priority is to build a solid frame - that is WAY more important - agree?
    Wave upon wave of demented avengers
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  12. #12
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    I heard 60-70% of Deans frame sales are in the International market. The euro dudes dig them a lot supposedly...

    I got my Dean in 13 weeks. Was it late? Yea, but it is a sweet-ass frame for the $$$ and workmanship is top notch.

  13. #13
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    I don't think you guys are being too fair.

    You know going in that the wait is going to be a while. Now, granted I don't condone the whole, "one more week" thing for months on end, but you know going in that your wait is going to be 3 months. Minimum. If you think it will be faster, than you are kidding yourself. Quite frankly, if you were expecting faster, maybe you should have bought a Schwinn or a GT or something.

    Basically, DEAN makes every bike to order. And then if you do something off from the norm, that will add even more time. This is the price you pay for a custom bike.

    As far as customer service goes, they are the best, hands down, in my opinion. I orderd a DEAN ACE when it first came out about 3 years ago. I rode the crap out of it, but last fall, the rear pivot failed and actually pulled the pivot away from the frame. This all happened while I was training for the 24 Hours of Moab. I sent my frame out to them right away, and I got a call the day they got it telling me that they would send me a new frame. They told me it would take a little while, cause they wanted to give me an '04 model with all the updates. I was stoked to get a new rig, but I knew they wouldn't be able to get me a new build quickly. I explained that I was trainig for a race, and that I didn't have another MTB to ride, and asked if they had a demo SCOUT or something that I could ride until they were able to complete my new frame. Wouldn't you know it if they sent me John's personal ACE from last year. He was doing R&D on the new frames with the latest updates, and this bike was just sitting around I was told. So, I have been waiting a little over 3 months, but I have yet to ask where the rig is, being I have a bike to ride. Granted, it's not my own, but it's a temporary solution until the big problem is resolved.

    Show me any other bike company that will do that for a customer. In my eyes, there just isn't a better group of guys who build a better bike. I will be in the market soon for a single speed, and you better believe the only trouble I will have is whether it's going to be Ti, Al or steel.

    Just my two cents. To me, I couldn't imagine waiting 18 weeks, have the frame in my hands, and then refuse the delivery. After a couple rides, you would have realized that the wait was worth it.

    -C

  14. #14
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    that's a CRAZY story

    of outstanding CS. Haven't chimed in much on the DEAN bashing myself, but I've also had really good CS from them and have seen them bend over backwards to help make people happy.

    I also love my own DEAN

    -Que?

  15. #15
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    Ionic History

    Personally I have not dealt with Dean.
    I have however dealt with Ionic when they were here in Boise. If that is the same people then I wouldn't buy from them either.
    They had a decent enough dh frame, but it had a Horste link and this was back when Special-Ed had just bought that particular patent. The "fine" people at Ionic did not change their rear end or pay the royalties. They thought that they were somewhat above all that as if Special-ed would just let that go by.
    This was a direct view of just how arrogant that Eric was. Eric Jensen was the guy in charge. I beleive that he thought his poo didn't smell.
    Naturally Specialized sued them and Ionic was done until Dean bought them up. If Dean brought in the same people, then I'd be surprized that this is all that went wrong.
    When they don't care about the laws or patents, then they more than likely won't care about the customer either.
    Just my observations.
    Darin
    www.gravityworxracing.com.

  16. #16
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    Putting DEAN on test !!

    [SIZE=3]Seven, Dean, Merlin, Moots or Litespeed ???? I just couldnt decide what Ti manufacturer to supply me with a new hardtail frame. After alot of research and deliberation I decided to opt for the DEAN since 1: I have only read great reviews about their build quality (this is where LITESPEED fell by the wayside) 2: the cheapest (bye bye Merlin) 3: an independent small company and 100% handmade (cya Litespeed and Moots) 4: the lightest.

    So, I phoned up John at DEAN and spoke to him about my requirements, I must say that I found him to be very patient, forthcoming and helpful. I decided on the frame and colour scheme and was then told that it would take 3-4 weeks to be built. I too have also been quoted the magic 4 weeks. This made me apprehensive, so I immediately told him about the experiences that I read about on this site and that I definitely wanted the frame by august. If I get mucked around then I will simply cancel my order and go elsewhere. John was however very reassuring and said that 3 - 4 weeks was very feasible, and that DEAN, being such a small firm, were simply unable to cope with the surge in demand at the beginning of this year.

    I must say that Im not very confident but im nevertheless going to give DEAN a chance to honour their word and to take a big step towards redeeming their reputation on this forum. I will keep you all updated so watch this space...........
    [/SIZE]
    Quote Originally Posted by DmofoT
    Many know what I have been through waiting for my new Ionic Johnny Rotten to arrive. For those who don't and are planning on ordering one, while I will not try and discourage you, read my experience and take it how you will.

    After exactly 18 long weeks of waiting for the bike, it shipped out to me on Monday, Feb. 9. It was supposed to arrive tomorrow, but was arriving a whole day earlier, today (Thursday, Feb. 12)! I had a lot of thinking going on in between the order and the shipping. Most people told me that you should expect a long wait from custom builders and especially from Dean, and especially if they tell you it's only going to be 4 weeks (which is what I was told).

    But after doing all my thinking and then looking at what they charged me, I came to one conclusion, something isn't right. The frame on sale is supposed to cost $550, plus $50 for the EBB/Disc option, so that's $600 for the frame. I was originially quoted $75 for the red to orange fade paint job, but was told after it was already at paint that it would be $150. Come to find out they charged me $200 for the paint. So now that's $800. Then they charged me shipping, which was an extra $25, even though they said they would waive the shipping costs and expedite it since it so long to get it done (18 weeks). So the final price was $825.

    Couple the pricing issues with the fact that every time I called it was only going to be one more week and one more week and one more week, and there are problems with the painter, and it should be here this week to ship, and one more week, and it is being treated as priority (I should add here that both Pete and James were extremely nice and helpful over the phone and I have no ill will towards either of them), and you can now see the position I was in.

    At 2:45pm I made a desperate call to Dean to find out their policy on refunds. They were willing to refund the overcharge for the paint and refund the shipping. While this would have cleared up the whole price issue, the waiting was still in me head, what if I have a warranty issue of some kind, will it be 5 months before I get the bike back? I told them what I really wanted to do was refuse the UPS package and have it returned to Dean for a full refund. They said if that's what you really want to do, then send the bike back and we will refund the money.

    10 minutes later the UPS man shows up with the frame in box. I refuse the delivery and he wisks it away. I really wish I had been able to see the frame just once. People tell you that the waiting you go through for a custom job is part of the game and it can be painfull, well this was more than painfull and I basically came to the conclusion I can't support a builder with that kind of customer service and who handles their business that way, no matter how well they build a frame. I would have been bitter everytime someone asked how I liked the bike or how it rides, etc. Sometimes the principle of the matter is just as important.

    So that's my experience, take it or leave it. While I am disappointed I won't be building my new bike this weekend, my conscious is much happier with the decision I have made. back to the drawing board.

    *I will add that I am very grateful Dean was willing to let me refuse the UPS delivery and opt for a full refund, at least that was a stand up move.

    DT
    Last edited by 20_bandh; 07-02-2004 at 06:14 AM.

  17. #17
    Irish Stew
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    Me too

    The frame is awesome, customer service was great, and the price is really hard to beat.

    I guess all companies run into problems, but it looks like Ionic has got their act together, at least in my case.
    [SIZE=4]I also had good experience...looks like Ive got the exact same frame ..dark green ebb/disk..How do you like the cable guides they use??/ (a little wierd...yea??) I took off the stickers all cept the "co flag-ionic" one..she's sweet!! Also I was led to believe that my frame would be the one shown on their site...they should remedy that..(They display a wish-bone rear end currently..) Hopefully Ill have her built by the spring.. [/SIZE]

    P.S. Did you get that frame delivered with a clearcoat???

  18. #18
    Irish Stew
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    J.R. pricing

    [SIZE=4]I was really worried that I was gonna get th "business" in between ordering & recieving my Johnny..The frame with ebb& disk was advertized at 550 & tyhen it changed 1 week before delivery...They charged me 583 (550 + shipping). I wonder if they got a tip to check out these forums & find out what the word on the street was about them..Mebbe they're trying-they treated me right anways..[/SIZE]

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