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  1. #1
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    Anyone with a coil shocked XCL?

    I have been thinking about changing from the DHX Air to a coil. I have seen a few XCL's with coils, but was wondering if anyone put a longer stroke rear shok on theirs to give it more travel and a better feel.

    So which rear shock did you use, and why?

    What size rider are you, and what size rear shock (stroke length) and spring (weight) did you use?

    Where did you get it, and about how much moola did it set you back?

    Thanks! Now let's see those rides!

  2. #2
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    DHX5 coil.. got it from Chumba direct. That said, I'm not sharing what I paid. I weigh 250# and the coil was what the dr. ordered.. completely plush and linear as compared to the DHX-A.

  3. #3
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    Well, I understand about not disclosing the price info. I am not quite as beefy as you, but I still think that the coil would ride better. Did you keep the travel the same, or did you adjust the stroke length?

  4. #4
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    Read here

    XCL and CCDB Wedded.

    What spring for a coil on XCL?

    Good luck. I do think the DHX air is not a good match for a this frame and big guys. The coil feels much better.
    Cycle tracks will abound in Utopia. ~H.G. Wells

  5. #5
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    DHX coil w/ 2.25 stroke,#450 ti springs,rider wt 195lb..chk out transition bike website they have a good deal on the rs roco's .

  6. #6
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    what about a Fox Van R any reason not too?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by forge197
    what about a Fox Van R any reason not too?
    I replaced my DHX Air with a Fox Van R and I love it!!

  8. #8
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    yeah..dont see why not .i dont even use the propedal even on climbs.

  9. #9
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    Thanks for replies, I will look at both but the van r does look nice and simple.

  10. #10
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    Double Barrel

    Quote Originally Posted by chumbacabra
    Read here

    XCL and CCDB Wedded.

    What spring for a coil on XCL?

    Good luck. I do think the DHX air is not a good match for a this frame and big guys. The coil feels much better.
    Now that you've had the CCDB for a while chumbacabra, are you still impressed?
    Just wondering if the XCL is your all around ride, or do you use it mostly for lift assisted days. How much of a nightmare is that shock to set up?
    I think that shock might be just the thing for the rocky New England trails that I ride.
    Thanks for any info.
    Dave

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merrimack Dave
    Now that you've had the CCDB for a while chumbacabra, are you still impressed?
    Just wondering if the XCL is your all around ride, or do you use it mostly for lift assisted days. How much of a nightmare is that shock to set up?
    I think that shock might be just the thing for the rocky New England trails that I ride.
    Thanks for any info.
    Dave

    It is night and day better than the DHX air. I love the feel. However, for a while I was running a 600lb spring (recommended by CC and chumba) and I just couldn't get it to feel right. I put the #550 back on and dialed up the HSC and some LSC (4 clicks from open) and it feels great. Really scoots over the rough stuff and climbs up the few rocky climbs we have around here great. It probably doesn't climb quite as well on the smooth trail as a propedal shock would, but I like the set and forget aspect of the shock. It also descends way better.

    The chumba is my do everything. although I do have a HT 29er that I play around on. I probably ride the XCL 85% of the time. I'm not afraid to climb on it and I'm taking it to Mammoth this week for some shuttle work. Running the Magura Wotan allows me to drop the front end to 120mm where I can climb just about anything that I can get traction on. I feel no wandering of the front end.

    Getting back the CCDB. I think the rockier the better for this shock. The set up is a bit of a lesson on suspension. But I enjoyed and still enjoy experimenting with the settings. It helps me to understand what too much or too little damping or preload can feel like. I would say the shock feels a bit over damped. The new needle valves Cane Creek is offering should remedy that minor complaint.

    Good luck.
    Cycle tracks will abound in Utopia. ~H.G. Wells

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by chumbacabra
    It is night and day better than the DHX air. I love the feel. However, for a while I was running a 600lb spring (recommended by CC and chumba) and I just couldn't get it to feel right. I put the #550 back on and dialed up the HSC and some LSC (4 clicks from open) and it feels great. Really scoots over the rough stuff and climbs up the few rocky climbs we have around here great. It probably doesn't climb quite as well on the smooth trail as a propedal shock would, but I like the set and forget aspect of the shock. It also descends way better.

    The chumba is my do everything. although I do have a HT 29er that I play around on. I probably ride the XCL 85% of the time. I'm not afraid to climb on it and I'm taking it to Mammoth this week for some shuttle work. Running the Magura Wotan allows me to drop the front end to 120mm where I can climb just about anything that I can get traction on. I feel no wandering of the front end.

    Getting back the CCDB. I think the rockier the better for this shock. The set up is a bit of a lesson on suspension. But I enjoyed and still enjoy experimenting with the settings. It helps me to understand what too much or too little damping or preload can feel like. I would say the shock feels a bit over damped. The new needle valves Cane Creek is offering should remedy that minor complaint.

    Good luck.
    Lots of great information, thanks a lot!

  13. #13
    Mmmm Rocks Good
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    5th Element on mine

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottandhisdog
    I have been thinking about changing from the DHX Air to a coil. I have seen a few XCL's with coils, but was wondering if anyone put a longer stroke rear shok on theirs to give it more travel and a better feel.

    So which rear shock did you use, and why?

    What size rider are you, and what size rear shock (stroke length) and spring (weight) did you use?

    Where did you get it, and about how much moola did it set you back?

    Thanks! Now let's see those rides!
    I threw an old, but barely used 5th Element coil over on my XCL and was really pleased w/how it feels! I'm running a 500 Lb spring on it and 150 Lbs air in the piggy back w/the shock set for a med ramp up on the stroke. Took it out yesterday for a long rocky ride and it felt terrific! May keep it on and use the RP23 as a back up! Oh yeah, I'm on and XL XCL at 6'2" 225 Lbs.
    Big, strong, rock crushing, IPA drinking, big hit bike rider!

  14. #14
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    That Cane Creek DB sounds great, but the cheapest I can find it for is $600! WOW! That's half the cost of a new EVO frame with rear shock.

    I also looked at the Marzochi Rocco Coil Shock and the price through Transition Bikes is much more reasonable for this experiment, however, the reviews on here trash that rear shock. Apparently, it leaks oil like a 70's Dodge.

  15. #15
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    Coil all the way on my XCL!! Marz Roco TST......2.25" stroke......275# spring. I weigh 130#.
    People wait for me on the way up. I wait for them on the way down.

  16. #16
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    Thanks for all the feedback guys. I have been riding a coil on the 2nd gen XCL with the adjustable geometry in the lower position for the last few weeks - and I am seriously thinking of just offering coil shocks as our standard build. If I can find a reasonably priced shock with external adjustments for low speed and high speed compression dampening - I think this will be the ticket not only for the XCL, but all of our bikes, including the VF2. These next few weeks are going to be for some product testing of rear dampers for the VF2 - so I'll let you guys know how it goes.
    Simple | Proven | Reliable

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  17. #17
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    Would 350# spring be correct for 160-170 lb rider?

  18. #18
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    ..

    Quote Originally Posted by Strafer
    Would 350# spring be correct for 160-170 lb rider?
    Hey Strafer,

    You can check out the spring calculator here: http://service.foxracingshox.com/con...calculator.htm

    Hope this helps.

    A.
    Simple | Proven | Reliable

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  19. #19
    Mmmm Rocks Good
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    Would anybody know if an XCL has a rising rate or falling rate on the suspension design? Trying to dial in my 5th Element a little finer. Going to boost up the platform to 175 Lbs (max) and kick up the beginning stroke compression a hair to see if I can take some of the bob on the climbs?
    Big, strong, rock crushing, IPA drinking, big hit bike rider!

  20. #20
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    The XCL has a consistently progressive rate - meaning rising rate - leverage increases as the shock compresses for more bottom out resistance (or bottomless feel) -

    A.
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  21. #21
    Mmmm Rocks Good
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    Thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    The XCL has a consistently progressive rate - meaning rising rate - leverage increases as the shock compresses for more bottom out resistance (or bottomless feel) -

    A.
    Thank you very much! Hope everyone has a great riding weekend!
    Big, strong, rock crushing, IPA drinking, big hit bike rider!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor821
    I replaced my DHX Air with a Fox Van R and I love it!!
    Will be trying out a Fox Van R 7.785 x 2.25 soon also~
    Having high hopes for it!
    Will update here when it's done~

    Cheers!
    Mas DD
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  23. #23
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    mas - look forward to hearing the feedback I am thinking of VAN-R, I'd love the CCDB but it's quite some $$££

  24. #24
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    I dont have an XCL, but I have an EVO. I have had an DHX 5.0 Air on mine, and swapped it out for a 5.0 Coil....no comparison.....night and day. The air almost made my EVO feel like a hardtail.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by nojoke
    I dont have an XCL, but I have an EVO. I have had an DHX 5.0 Air on mine, and swapped it out for a 5.0 Coil....no comparison.....night and day. The air almost made my EVO feel like a hardtail.
    That's really a big difference there... DId you try all the settings on the DHX air before moving onto the coil? Just wondering....

    In my case, the XCL is running an RP23 with medium compression tune, minimum rebound tune (feels a tad bit slow to me though even at fastest setting), and it feels too too harsh on the compression stroke. I can actually hear the hydraulic slush sound when I sit on the bike when the propedal is off....

    That's why I'm considering putting on the vanilla R.....
    Incidentally the Vanilla R is a 7.875 x 2.25 shock, so it will up the travel on the XCL a bit as compared to the stock 7.875 x 2.0 RP23.... I know it won't be a fair comparison but if I like the bike with the Vanilla R, I'd just stick with that and get a titanium spring to go along~

    Also kinda wondering why Chumba didn't spec the 7.875 x 2.25 shock onto the XCL in the first place to compete with the other long travel 140mm/5.5" trail bikes on the market now...

    Thanks for the input!
    Mas
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  26. #26
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    I was considering doing the coil swap, but no I have an EVO on the way. I may eventually get a CCDB on the EVO, and keep the DHX Air on the XCL. It would be great if PUSH figured out how to tune the DHX Air's.

    As for stroke length and travel, I can see your point, but in really thinking about it, I can honestly not think of a time where my friend with 5.5" of travel made it through a section that I didn't. I also assume that the extra 1/2" of travel may limit your tire choices because of seat-tube interference at full bottom-out.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottandhisdog
    I was considering doing the coil swap, but no I have an EVO on the way. I may eventually get a CCDB on the EVO, and keep the DHX Air on the XCL. It would be great if PUSH figured out how to tune the DHX Air's.

    As for stroke length and travel, I can see your point, but in really thinking about it, I can honestly not think of a time where my friend with 5.5" of travel made it through a section that I didn't. I also assume that the extra 1/2" of travel may limit your tire choices because of seat-tube interference at full bottom-out.
    Shouldn't be a problem for me as I don't run anything more than 2.25 in the rear tyre , will double check on full compression stroke after taking out the coil spring and update again~

    But there's already quite a number of XCL riders who have put in a 2.25 stroke shock with quite some clearance between the tyre and seat tube at full compression, with pics in this forum... I've also gotten the go-ahead from A.Kang, so no worries there either~

    Like I said, it wouldn't be a fair comparison but heck I just wanna take the best option and just ride my bike hard~ You're definitely right about the 1/2 inch difference not making much of a difference coz I sometimes don't clear sections that a shorter travel bike goes through.... Boils down mostly to the rider really.... Hehe.... Perhaps I just like the number 140mm as opposed to 130mm~ 5.5" as opposed to 5"....

    Cheers!
    Mas
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  28. #28
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    Here's the thread!
    Managed to dig it up with the search function...

    Can you run a 2.25 stroke on XCL?

    Cheers!
    Mas
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  29. #29
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    Yeah, I saw that about a year ago too. It is interesting. I've always said, if my Trek Fuel EX really had 4", then the XCL felt like it had 7"! Suspension design is more important than inches IMO.

    It's funny, last night I built up the EVO with the DHX Air from the XCL, and it feels wwwaaaayyy different. It feels "springier" on the EVO. Again, it feels like it has way more than an inch of travel over the XCL. The only thing that I can figure is that the leverage ratio must be different than on the XCL, which then also yields a longer travel. I also have to use much more air in the shock to get the sag right on the EVO.

    I'm not totally finished building up the EVO. Something is not right with the E-Type FD and the bottom bracket. It is ascue and it felt as though the threads were cross stripping. Maybe I need a BB spacer? There were 2 FD threads on the frame, and it seems like the forward one was interfering with the mounting being flush. It was also pretty late, so I hope to get it worked out today.

    So, if that is the case, maybe I should keep the DHX on the EVO, and get the CCDB on the XCL? I have only done the sit on it, and roll it down the driveway test and off a curb, but without cranks on it, I can't tell if it is going to be trail better.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by masnumata
    That's really a big difference there... DId you try all the settings on the DHX air before moving onto the coil? Just wondering....

    I wasnt happy with the amount of rebound or lack of that the shock provided. I tried running it alot of sag, next to no sag, various different propedal, and bottom out chamber settings, never could get it to act like I wanted. Im 200lb gear upped on the bike, so maybe I need a custom valving. The Coil seems more plush thruout the travel. It seemed to keep the bike alot more planted in fast rock gardens, and fire roads with rather large size rocks....

    I experimented while I had the shock on the bike. I had my coil sent off for rebuild, and had an air on it for a while. Ithrow the air on to save the weight on long rides, but unless I get it re-valved or tuned I wont run it on my normal combo.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by nojoke
    I wasnt happy with the amount of rebound or lack of that the shock provided. I tried running it alot of sag, next to no sag, various different propedal, and bottom out chamber settings, never could get it to act like I wanted. Im 200lb gear upped on the bike, so maybe I need a custom valving. The Coil seems more plush thruout the travel. It seemed to keep the bike alot more planted in fast rock gardens, and fire roads with rather large size rocks....

    I experimented while I had the shock on the bike. I had my coil sent off for rebuild, and had an air on it for a while. Ithrow the air on to save the weight on long rides, but unless I get it re-valved or tuned I wont run it on my normal combo.
    An interesting thing with my DHX air vs coil experience a while back (on the same HL bike) was that the air actually felt "more plush" at slow speed on bumps and impacts. The thing always used a lot of travel, but the coil didn't feel as plush at those speeds. When I upped the speed through rocky terrain, the coil felt much more consistant, and the air just couldn't keep up (over-using travel and essentially not enough left for the next bump). It could be said that it was "more plush" throughout all the travel, but "more consistant" was a better descriptor for me. The coil definitely was planted/had more control in those fast rock gardens.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  32. #32
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    Can't say about a coil shock, but I found a pushed rp23 to work far better then the dhx air that came with the frame. Now I don't know how much of it was due to an inability to tune the dhx air to optimum settings, but I would think a coil would work very well.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    An interesting thing with my DHX air vs coil experience a while back (on the same HL bike) was that the air actually felt "more plush" at slow speed on bumps and impacts. The thing always used a lot of travel, but the coil didn't feel as plush at those speeds. When I upped the speed through rocky terrain, the coil felt much more consistant, and the air just couldn't keep up (over-using travel and essentially not enough left for the next bump). It could be said that it was "more plush" throughout all the travel, but "more consistant" was a better descriptor for me. The coil definitely was planted/had more control in those fast rock gardens.
    I took the air out lastnight on the bike because it was really muddy and wet, was a slow ride with lots of climbing. I noticed right off the bat that is was like you mentioned, felt real plush thru the travel at slow trail riding. When you go to give it some big bumps or compression it will take it, but just goes thru it quickly. Bottom out chamber and setting is setup pretty high. Not to mention it seems as if its gonna buck you off the bike (rebound all way up)

    Doesnt seem as if the factory valving can handle the rebound and slow it down quick enough in the higher main chamber pressures upwards of 250. I also think the propedal has alot more difference on the coil vs the air.


    I wouldnt mind trying one with a different shock tune, just to try it, but for now im sold on the coil. Im throwing a Ti spring on it over the winter.

  34. #34
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    7.875 x 2.25 shock rear tyre clearance

    Hokie I've tried it out and there's definitely ample clearance for a 2.25" stroke shock in there..... I've even temporarily taken out the rubber bumper for the photo shoot to remove any doubts....

    Will update the about the ride when I get the shock back from servicing~
    Cheers~
    Mas
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    Last edited by masnumata; 09-22-2009 at 01:39 AM.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by masnumata
    Hokie I've tried it out and there's definitely ample clearance for a 2.25" stroke shock in there.....
    Can't quite see, but what is the tire size?
    And go Hokies! Beat da U!

  36. #36
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    It's a Panaracer Cinder 2.1 tyre in the rear~
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  37. #37
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    I run Rampage 2.35s, looks like might be a tight fit when I get my 2.25 stroke CCDB.

  38. #38
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    Hokae here's an update:

    The Vanilla R (2006 with propedal, no piggyback) rocks on the XCL!!!! Initial riding around the carpark/ curbs/ grass, etc etc is AWESOME!!!! I was expecting this kind of performance from the bike, and now it has come true!!!

    It's really a difference between night and day as what the previous posters mentioned with the coil shock as opposed to the RP23 (medium compression tune, I think this tune is too harsh)~

    Gonna hit the trails this weekend and see how the rear performs~ I'm so stoked!!!!!!!!!
    WOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Mas DDD
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  39. #39
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    By the way the Vanilla R (2006, with propedal) is a 7.875 x 2.25 (boosts the travel to around 5.5inch coz the stock RP23 is 7.875 x 2.0 which gives 5 inch of travel), and it really balances out my Domain 160mm (6 inch) in the front!!! It feels so much better now as opposed to the RP23 oh man...... I can't describe how sweet the ride feels now....

    Can't wait to hit the trails in Malaysia tomorrow!!!!!

    WOOOOooo!!! COIL IS DA BOMB!!!

    Oh yes I'm a 195lb rider using a 450lb/in coil for the 7.875 x 2.25 shock~ With a few turns of the preload to the feel that I like~

    Mas
    Last edited by masnumata; 09-24-2009 at 07:50 PM.
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  40. #40
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    I think I am going to try a DHX coil as opposed to my RP23 I have now. Glad to hear the Vamilla worked great and was thinking this shock over the DHX. Anyone think it is better to go with the DHX or the Vanilla? I know weight seems to be the only real difference, but anyone feel one is better than another?

    We have aggressive XC type trails with stunt obsticles - no real down hills and major rock beds. Lots of solid climbs and technical switch backs, etc. I just cannot get the RP23 to work the way I want it to and thought about a DHX Air until I started reading the coil comments...

    Suggestions? I was also thinking the 2.25" vs. the 2.00" as it comes stock...

  41. #41
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    I just tried a used Van R on my XCL over the weekend. I put a 600 lb spring on it (I weigh 220 before bike gear). My first impression was that it was too soft in compression. I suspect the spring wasn't a high enough rate for this shock, because I was using most of the rear travel but only about 2/3 of the front travel. It didn't bottom out that I noticed though.

    This particular shock didn't seem to have any pedal platform. Once I got a little time on it I felt more comfortable, but on the whole I'd have to say it didn't work for me.

    I'm saving my pennies for a CCDB.
    Work is the curse of the biking classes.

  42. #42
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    Chuck, I weigh 200 before gear and am using a 600# spring. Works much better than the RP23. You may want to see if you can borrow a heavier spring. The DHX coils do come with proPedal.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by uconn1150
    Chuck, I weigh 200 before gear and am using a 600# spring. Works much better than the RP23. You may want to see if you can borrow a heavier spring. The DHX coils do come with proPedal.
    Did you run 2.00" or 2.25"? Want to make sure I don't go buying a shock that ends up being worthless...

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