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  1. #601
    weirdo
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    AAAAaarrrgh....
    I guess there`s a downside to that heavenly single track .
    Better luck when the mud gets whiter. How long did it take to get home?

  2. #602
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    ^^ an hour an a half for 6 miles...luckily on the downhills the momentum overcame the snow/leaf buildup and it kept rolling, or it would have been worse. I just brought the poor thing in from the deck, where I hoped some would melt off...but it has dropped from 31 to 27, so I had to bring her in to melt.

  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer View Post
    ^^ an hour an a half for 6 miles...luckily on the downhills the momentum overcame the snow/leaf buildup and it kept rolling, or it would have been worse. I just brought the poor thing in from the deck, where I hoped some would melt off...but it has dropped from 31 to 27, so I had to bring her in to melt.
    Yep, the temps around here dropping the same. Lows in the upper twenty's but it's been very clear.
    2012 Cannondale Trail SL 29ER 4

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  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer View Post
    It appears that someone added superglue to the recipe for snow tonight. It started out OK but about halfway home the snow stuck to the tires, bike, and drivetrain, and the leaves stuck to the snow. This eventually and repeatedly brought the critical advantage of the wheel - that is, rolling - to a complete halt. Pushing a bike is one thing. Pushing a bike that doesn't roll is no fun at all.
    What the heck is that third photo about? Burning the bike for survival, or is Predator about to attack you? LOL

  5. #605
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    ^^Looks a little hellish, doesn't it....it's the glow of the taillight on the ball of leaves and snow on the rear brake.

  6. #606
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    Well, we got our first taste of winter last night, about an inch of snow. Some more this weekend, as of the current forecast, I'm on the line between 3-6 and 6-12.

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer View Post
    It appears that someone added superglue to the recipe for snow tonight. ... Pushing a bike that doesn't roll is no fun at all.
    Quoting my father at times like that: "Wouldn't that just make you wanna swear!"

    I have had that happen with boots (walking tall has a new meaning), but not a bike.

    BrianMc

    PS Our first real frost tonight, a mild one last night.

  8. #608
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    Yikes! I had the rear wheel lock up once last year from the same situation inside the rear fender. I had the thought that you could maybe prevent it with full coverage fenders that were mounted extremely close at the rear-most point in the back of the wheel and a little further away from the tire all the rest of the way around...to sort of 'cut off' the build-up of snow like a knife before it had a chance to rotate up the tire and start clogging. You'd have to cut off the mud flap part and get the plastic blade right down there at the tire. Probably have to add a new strut right there at the end of the fender.

    ...might be fantasy, but it *could* work. That's the kind of sticky snow they call 'Sierra Cement' around here. More common out here in the west I think.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
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  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy View Post
    Yikes! I had the rear wheel lock up once last year from the same situation inside the rear fender. I had the thought that you could maybe prevent it with full coverage fenders that were mounted extremely close on the bottom in the back of the wheel and a little further away from the tire all the rest of the way around...to sort of 'cut off' the build-up of snow like a knife before it had a chance to rotate up the tire and start clogging. You'd have to cut off the mud flap part and get the plastic blade right down there at the tire.

    ...might be fantasy, but it *could* work. That's the kind of sticky snow they call 'Sierra Cement' around here. More common out here in the west I think.
    One of the reasons I gave up on fenders...that and they kept breaking...

    Worst case around here is straw tilled into muddy black loam....It plugs everything solid..

    I have often thought of the cutting device required to keep the rear chainstay free...best I come up with is a plastic knife about 3 inches long mounted about 9:00 (rear) of the wheel...you would have to cut it with scissors to match the tire outline...BMW Enduro bikes have a thingy like that.

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  10. #610
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    Another year round commuter here. 7 miles each way at the moment, Salt Lake City, Utah. It is generally dry and cold (single digits to 20's F) through the winter, with maybe 1 day a week of snow.
    I ride 38mm Nokian studded tires and run a dynamo with Sepernova E3 pro lighting. Works great for me.

    The fender trick has worked for me - closer at the rear, then slightly farther away for the rest of the coverage.

  11. #611
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    DIY Studs and Tubeless

    I couldn't find much info online about whether a tubeless conversion of DIY studded tires would work so I thought I would give it a try (click on any of the images for fullsize):

    Tires are wirebead Maxxis Ignitor 29x2.1




    Studs are 120 6x3/8" self-drilling screws


    Gorillatape rimstrip with cannibalized presta valvestem


    Sealant is a homebrew from this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/be...ew-406115.html. I just poured it right in. Someone had suggested lining the tire with gorillatape, but without a tube in there there's nothing to keep the tape pressed against the tire so it would just flop around and wouldn't really help.


    Airing it up tubeless was as easy as any tubeless setup I've ever done.


    After setup I took it for a spin around my parking garage, including popping the front and back wheels a few times. There was very little weeping from the studs - maybe a dozen per tire had sealant visible, but the rest were clean.


    When I finished the setup I was doing some other work on my bike, and every so often one of the studs would suddenly start audibly leaking air. It happened maybe twice per tire, and pretty randomly like after they'd been aired up for 10 or 20 minutes. Giving the tire a quick shake to slosh the sealant around stopped the leaks. My first ride around the garage also caused a few leaks, but they sealed up after a quick spin.

    So this is still an experiment but at this point it's turned out better than expected. I've got to give it a few days to see if it holds air, and I'll probably take it for a short ride tomorrow to see how things go after a km or two. Probably won't get to test them on snow for at least another week.

    If anyone is wondering why bother with this, it's basically because there aren't a lot of studded tires for 29ers - 700c tires are too narrow for what I want, and the Nokian 29er gets pretty middling reviews for such a pricey tire. I could see myself buying the new Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pro 29er at some point, but it's brandnew and isn't readily available, and it's also super expensive. So DIY studs are my best option right now, and running tubeless will hopefully avoid the problem of the studs popping the tube or having to use tireliners.
    Last edited by newfangled; 10-28-2011 at 07:03 PM.

  12. #612
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    Nice. Looking forward to more updates on how that works out. I'm tubeless with Gorilla Tape and homebrew sealant too. It wasn't my suggestion, but I do think you would have had luck with lining the inside of the tire with gorilla tape though... It would stick nicely to the inside of the tire, and shoudl prevent the seepage at the studs. My theory is that the air pressure inside the tire would help it stay stuck. Late for that now though! hope this works well enough for me to want to try it!
    You have no excuse for driving to work
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  13. #613
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    ^ I did try a gorilla tape liner but it just wasn't working. The edges curled up, and it wouldn't stick around the screw heads. There were so many gaps that it wouldn't have provided any sort of extra seal. I had thought about lining the tire with gorilla tape, putting in a tube and airing it up, and letting that press the tape down for a few days. That might have worked a bit better, but it seemed like too much effort.

    As it was though there was barely any leaking at the studs. I was expecting a little green blob of sealant on every screw but it was actually only about 10% them, if even that. So at this point I'm pretty impressed with how well it's worked.

  14. #614
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    Is Gorilla just a brand of duct tape? About the pressure holding the tape to the inside of the tire, I don`t think that would happen because within the tire cavity, all should be at the same pressure. In other words, even there`s 30 PSi, or whatever, pressing against the back of the tape, the same pressure is against the sticky side, so no real difference between taping something inside a pressurized tire and taping inside a flat tire. I hope the attempt as a whole works out for you though- good luck with it.

  15. #615
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    ^ Gorilla tape is similar to ducttape, but the glue is completely different and apparently much better. It is the preferred tape for tubeless conversions, and I've been running tubeless with it on these rims since the spring.

    Gorilla Tape

    And what you're saying about the pressure is exactly right. When I tried to put the tape in as a tire liner it wasn't making a good seal with the tire at all. Since air could easily get under it there wouldn't be a pressure differential, so there wouldn't be anything to press it against the tire, so it would basically just be added weight.

  16. #616
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    Well that makes sense if you had gaps... no bueno. Using a tube to 'set' the tape is time consuming, but might work well.

    I remember a discussion about 'painting' the inside of the tire with rubber cement also... for tires that are really seepy. That might be an alternative if you run into trouble with the studs. Hopefully a non issue...we'll see how well they hold.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
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  17. #617
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    Tubeless studs Update #1

    Went for a quick 8km loop on the road, with a few little curbdrops and stuff. The pressures are holding, but I noticed that one stud on the rear has backed it self into the tire so far that it's almost completely invisible. It's the only one like that, but it looks like some of the others have sunk in a bit too. So I might have to ditch the tubeless and resort to a tire liner and tubes after all, but I'm going to give it a few more test rides to see how things go.

    Edited to add:

    I took the tires off to see what was going on. Here is the screw that's backed itself all the way into the tire:


    There was only one like that, but there were quite a few others that had backed in a mm or two:


    I've got some time to play around with this, so I think that I may back all the screws off a bit, add a drop of contact cement to the threads, and then re-tighten them and let them dry. I'm hoping maybe that might provide just enough resistance to hold them in place? Failing that, I'll have to go with tubes.
    Last edited by newfangled; 10-30-2011 at 01:20 PM.

  18. #618
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    OOh what if you used little teeny bolts with nuts on the outside of the tire?
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  19. #619
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    I'm using the 3/8" screws, and there isn't any thread visible to put a nut on.

    There's one version of DIY studding that involves pushing the screws in from the outside, so the screw heads act as the studs. The danger is that then the points are on the inside of the tire and could press in against the tube...but if there's no tube then there's no problem? When I made these I actually hadn't planned on going tubeless because I didn't think they would seal, but from my short test holding pressure isn't an issue.

    For my version I think using beefier screws might have helped? I used 6x3/8" because those were the only 3/8" screws that the local stores had. If I could have found 8x3/8" they might have held better? I did try an 8x1/2" at first, but it was way too long.

    Anyway, I gooped everything up with contact cement yesterday (took forever, but it's in the name of science!) and I'll probably try to mount them up again on wednesday or the weekend.

    edited to add:

    I wanted Robertson pan-head screws, because they are recommended for this type of thing since they should theoretically do less damage to a tireliner/tube. If I'd been specifically planning for tubeless then I could have been less picky and looked for 8x3/8" in a phillips or hexhead instead.

    One caveat I should mention is that with normal tubeless setups if something goes wrong you can just open it up, pour out the sealant, install a tube, and finish your ride. That backup plan won't work in this case, because even with robertson pan-heads I wouldn't expect a tube to last very long in there.
    Last edited by newfangled; 10-31-2011 at 10:36 AM.

  20. #620
    Still want a fat bike....
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    I guess that you will just have to carry some gorilla tape with you in case you have to throw a tube in. You can just line it real quick and go. Great write up. These are the kinds of homebrew that I like to see. I prefer to let someone else do the dirty work and then I can just utilize their finished product.

  21. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled View Post
    Tubeless studs Update #1

    Went for a quick 8km loop on the road, with a few little curbdrops and stuff. The pressures are holding, but I noticed that one stud on the rear has backed it self into the tire so far that it's almost completely invisible. It's the only one like that, but it looks like some of the others have sunk in a bit too. So I might have to ditch the tubeless and resort to a tire liner and tubes after all, but I'm going to give it a few more test rides to see how things go.

    Edited to add:

    I took the tires off to see what was going on. Here is the screw that's backed itself all the way into the tire:


    There was only one like that, but there were quite a few others that had backed in a mm or two:


    I've got some time to play around with this, so I think that I may back all the screws off a bit, add a drop of contact cement to the threads, and then re-tighten them and let them dry. I'm hoping maybe that might provide just enough resistance to hold them in place? Failing that, I'll have to go with tubes.
    Super Glue (not contact cement).....add a bit of water to each screw as well to help set the superglue.

  22. #622
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    I'll be switching to the studded tires this week.
    I quite enjoy the winter commute. I like riding in the dark, with fewer people out and about, just me and my little island of light.
    I've ridden down to about 5F pretty comfortably, and haven't had the opportunity to go colder. It rarely gets below 0F (-17C) here in the Salt Lake Valley.

  23. #623
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    An Un-Studded Winter Tire?

    from BikeRadar.com
    Continental TopContact Winter 2 tire

    Continental have taken their studless winter car tire knowledge and used it to develop an equivalent for bicycles. The TopContact Winter 2 ($64.95) is a three-ply, 180tpi wire bead tire which employs a special cold-temperature rubber compound and impressively siped tread to gain grip on ice and snow. Between our two 700x37mm test tires, weights averaged 607g Ė considerably less than that of a winter tire with metal studs. Conti also offer a 26x1.9in version with a claimed weight of 740g.

    The TopContact Winter 2s offer noticeably better grip than file-tread or aggressively treaded cyclo-cross clincher tires on packed or frozen surfaces at comparable pressures. We've tried them at 30psi; for general use, Continental recommend a tire pressure in the mid to high 50s psi. In deeper snow, the tires do pack up. However, we noticed that this packing is temperature dependent and the rubber definitely stays more pliable in colder temperatures than a standard tire.

    We found the topcontact winter 2 worth a look, should you commute in wintery conditions:

    On dry pavement, the weight and soft durometer rubber donít seem to make the tire too sluggish, so it could be a good option for those who encounter snow and ice regularly on their commutes, as well as those in cooler rainy climates just looking for some extra grip. We've yet to put enough miles on the Top Contact Winter2, however, to be able to comment on wear.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The Long Cold Winter Commuter Support Thread-unstud.jpg  


  24. #624
    Frys With That, Please
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    Quote Originally Posted by canyoneagle View Post
    I'll be switching to the studded tires this week.
    I quite enjoy the winter commute. I like riding in the dark, with fewer people out and about, just me and my little island of light.
    I've ridden down to about 5F pretty comfortably, and haven't had the opportunity to go colder. It rarely gets below 0F (-17C) here in the Salt Lake Valley.
    I totally agree.


    This past Winter (My first Winter commuting) I've found that staying cool was a bigger chore. My coldest commute was 10*F with a 5 to 8MPH head wind.
    2012 Cannondale Trail SL 29ER 4

    1994 Cannondale Super V 1000

    1996 Cannondale F500 rigid-fork 69'er

    Motiv 26'er

  25. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer View Post
    from BikeRadar.com
    Continental TopContact Winter 2 tire

    Continental have taken their studless winter car tire knowledge and used it to develop an equivalent for bicycles. The TopContact Winter 2 ($64.95) is a three-ply, 180tpi wire bead tire which employs a special cold-temperature rubber compound and impressively siped tread to gain grip on ice and snow. Between our two 700x37mm test tires, weights averaged 607g Ė considerably less than that of a winter tire with metal studs. Conti also offer a 26x1.9in version with a claimed weight of 740g.

    The TopContact Winter 2s offer noticeably better grip than file-tread or aggressively treaded cyclo-cross clincher tires on packed or frozen surfaces at comparable pressures. We've tried them at 30psi; for general use, Continental recommend a tire pressure in the mid to high 50s psi. In deeper snow, the tires do pack up. However, we noticed that this packing is temperature dependent and the rubber definitely stays more pliable in colder temperatures than a standard tire.

    We found the topcontact winter 2 worth a look, should you commute in wintery conditions:

    On dry pavement, the weight and soft durometer rubber donít seem to make the tire too sluggish, so it could be a good option for those who encounter snow and ice regularly on their commutes, as well as those in cooler rainy climates just looking for some extra grip. We've yet to put enough miles on the Top Contact Winter2, however, to be able to comment on wear.
    I suspect few have hundreds of thousands of expereince with the car hydrophillic tread compound tires. Since it may play here I will put in my 2-cents. My first Conti Contact Car tires were back in the 70's (studs were then illegal in Ontario). The grip works well at temps below 20F. I had several sets of 'ice radials' over the years, Contis, Bizzaks, and now Dunlops which see Cleveland winters when Kathryn drives there once a month. A film of water interfers with their grip at temps from 20 up to freezing, essentially kicking in when salt stops working. Bike tires don't heat up much. So I'd guess the problem temps to be in the 28-32 range where the pressure of the tire melts the ice surface, un;less free water exists to start with. I would not expect them to be as good as a Nokian with studs on greasy salted snow pack and ice where the studs bite in for purchase, but for the mostly dry pavement and occassional ice, especially at lower temps, with that weight advantage (they are lighter than my Micheln City 38 mm normal tires!), they are worth a look for some of us. Especially if you run two or several wheel sets and swap them for the weather and road conditions.

    BrianMc

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