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  1. #19051
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    Two weeks off, rode almost every day, and I think I only took the studded bike once. Not that it wasn't wintery (because it totally was) but the roads were bare, the paths were clear, and the singletrack was beautifully hardpacked. On the weekend I was out twice on my cx tires.

    So this morning I'm deciding which bike to take, and I figure I'll take the studded bike just because I miss it. And then the last 10 blocks of my ride to work is all icy, washboard, moguls. It wasn't quite as extreme as blockphi's newsstory, but studs were definitely a good choice.

  2. #19052
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled View Post
    Two weeks off, rode almost every day, and I think I only took the studded bike once. Not that it wasn't wintery (because it totally was) but the roads were bare, the paths were clear, and the singletrack was beautifully hardpacked. On the weekend I was out twice on my cx tires.

    So this morning I'm deciding which bike to take, and I figure I'll take the studded bike just because I miss it. And then the last 10 blocks of my ride to work is all icy, washboard, moguls. It wasn't quite as extreme as blockphi's newsstory, but studs were definitely a good choice.
    I was the exact opposite. the roads here still had lots of ice as did the trails. I suppose after my spill in the middle of the road I wasn't too motivated to ride on the ice. I only snuck in one ride of 24 miles. I fell short of my goal by 76 miles. In the end, I can live with it because miles just for the sake of miles seems foolish. Instead I enjoyed hanging with my sons, playing video games and other frivolous things.

    Rode in today after swapping out the Nokian A10's for Clement USH's. I figured that with the afternoon highs we've had the last couple of days the ice would have melted off the trails. Not so, for the most part, it looked exactly like it did on December 24th. Glad I left the studded tires on my Motobecane. I will likely ride it in the remainder of the week. Guess I'm getting to be a wuss!


    Anyway, ended up at 3976 miles for 2015. Will shoot for 5k this year. Goal is to average 100 miles a week.

  3. #19053
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    Cruiser bike commuting is the best, if your commute is short and the weather is pretty decent year round. I started commuting about three years ago after peering in at this forum for a few months. Had a Walmart cruiser (40x16 gearing) for neighborhood rides with family and a Haro mt. bike at time. Because fitness was part of it, decided to go with the single speed Walmart cruiser. Kept this bike running for over 4000 miles until it met its end by me falling on top of it with a rushed mount. I really like the geometry and simplicity of the cruisers. . .and a lot less than hybrids.

    My commute today was wet and rainy and tiresome. Spent most of December off the bike and gaining five pounds. Lost a good deal of fitness and paid today. Also didn't pay too much attention to the gearing of my new cruiser when I bought it but today found out it is geared too low for my liking. So on top of diminished fitness, I had to deal with much more spinning than accustomed too. Suspect this will get me right back into shape though. I may or may not switch out the ring for less teeth. Depends on whether I get used to it or not. I am a creature of habit and after 4k on my old bike this bike today felt like a complete stranger.

  4. #19054
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedwards1000 View Post

    Happy New Year, nice article, photos, and blog bite Bedwards!

    Impressive street skating up there, blockphi!

  5. #19055
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    Suddenly chilly, 0F on the ride in, -5F by the time I got home. Stayed pretty comfy, although the facemask was bugging me. On the way home I velcroed it too snug and got a stiff neck. Stopped at about the 4 mile mark and switched to a wool buff I had packed - aah, comfy, and cozily dry (for a while) for the next 4. Squeaked out another ride with the summer tires.

  6. #19056
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegascruiser View Post
    My commute today was wet and rainy and tiresome.
    Yep supposed to be rainy all week in the LV valley, I got a little wet today as well for this year's first commute.
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  7. #19057
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedwards1000 View Post
    Happy new Year!

    I started the year off with my own personal press release. Leg Work: Getting to work in the winter under your own steam may not be for the faint of heart - The Portland Press Herald / Maine Sunday Telegram

    Add to that my year end review:
    The Candid Cyclist: Year End Review 2015

    So far I've ridden 11.0 miles in 2016. At that rate I'll top 1000 miles this year. OK, it's been a slow start.
    Famous AND a "rough-toughie" the author says!
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  8. #19058
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    Related to my daily commute, I will effectively no longer be able to cheat in the winter. Nobody I know goes to university anymore though the bus may be an option. Grad school is cool.

    I need to figure out what to do so I can travel 11 miles each way in any winter conditions. I'm debating getting the widest knobby tires I can on my 29er or trying to find a used fat bike. A fat bike would be very excessive most of the year, though. Maybe I'll put studded tires on the fixed gear...

    That'll be my task this year when the commute starts back up. I've been in a lull since school got out. Nothing to do, nowhere to go...
    i am basically just an organic pattern recognition algorithm

  9. #19059
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    Going back to work in a couple hours, and I sure am glad to be DONE with the holidays. Weird shifts and parties are never my favorites, and I`ve had more than enough of both lately, thank you. I migrated way south over the weekend and skipped a major cold spell, so now it`s back to "moderately cold" and the same ice I had last week. Supposed to get a few days of piddly snow, will just leave the studs on for a while.

    Wonderful write-up, Bedwards! How did you come to the author`s attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy View Post
    Summary of the past couple weeks:
    Attachment 1040078
    Boy am I glad to see some snow again! Looks great, CB. Is that down at Tahoe, or one of your own lakes?

    Quote Originally Posted by vegascruiser View Post
    Also didn't pay too much attention to the gearing of my new cruiser when I bought it but today found out it is geared too low for my liking. So on top of diminished fitness, I had to deal with much more spinning than accustomed too. Suspect this will get me right back into shape though. I may or may not switch out the ring for less teeth.
    Congrats on the new bike- gearing aside, I`m sure it`ll become familiar to you. But if you liked the higher gears, won`t less teeth on the ring drop your gearing even lower? I think you have it backwards.
    Recalculating....

  10. #19060
    Bedwards Of The West
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    That's Walker Lake Rodar. Backside of Fredoneyer. Right out the back door. Woohoo!

  11. #19061
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    Quote Originally Posted by z1r View Post
    I was the exact opposite. the roads here still had lots of ice as did the trails. I suppose after my spill in the middle of the road I wasn't too motivated to ride on the ice. I only snuck in one ride of 24 miles. I fell short of my goal by 76 miles. In the end, I can live with it because miles just for the sake of miles seems foolish. Instead I enjoyed hanging with my sons, playing video games and other frivolous things.

    Rode in today after swapping out the Nokian A10's for Clement USH's. I figured that with the afternoon highs we've had the last couple of days the ice would have melted off the trails. Not so, for the most part, it looked exactly like it did on December 24th. Glad I left the studded tires on my Motobecane. I will likely ride it in the remainder of the week. Guess I'm getting to be a wuss!


    Anyway, ended up at 3976 miles for 2015. Will shoot for 5k this year. Goal is to average 100 miles a week.
    Congrats on the miles!! I am not sure if your goal was 4k or not, but 3976 is nothing to look down your nose at. Best of luck in 2016! We both know you can do it!
    The pedals turn, not just the left one, but the right one too.
    2015 miles: 5019/5000
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  12. #19062
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    Looks like winter is here now. Ride in was sunny and pretty nice. Ride home was frigid. Currently 13F and my hands can feel it. Ride was not bad, was able to keep the SS moving at a nice pace since the roads are for the most part clear. That helps get the warm blood to your extremities. Found out that I just rode the shortest commute in my history. 14.05 miles. It all has to do with how I leave my complex and if I take the shortcut to the MUP over the tracks. That cuts out at least a mile and a half if not more if I do it on both trips, like I did today.
    The pedals turn, not just the left one, but the right one too.
    2015 miles: 5019/5000
    2016 miles: 3262/6000

  13. #19063
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    Happy New Year folks.

    Glad you've all been keeping it going. First day back working and commuting today and I've just gone way over my break catching up (shhh). You lot are awesome!!

    Cooler over here but not freezing. We had maybe the second frost of the winter over the break. That's pretty much unprecedented. Not raining but wet this and I'm down to only my blinky light waiting for the Niterider replacement to turn up.

    I'm gonna try and monitor my mileage a bit more this year, I reckon I managed about 900-1000 miles from mid september so I'll see what I can do for 2016

  14. #19064
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    Winter decided to show up today out of nowhere, 13F when I left but it's sunny and dry and I think I actually wore the correct layers for once. I'm always tempted to overdress when it drops below 20F.

  15. #19065
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    Wonderful write-up, Bedwards! How did you come to the author`s attention?
    I think she contacted the organizer of the bike-ped group I sat on for a while. She learned of my unique commute over the lake and wanted to do a piece on winter commuting.

    My commute home last night was one of the hardest ones ever. My legs are still dead after my crash. A week an a half later I still have a foot long bruise on one of my quads in the shape of a parking divider. So, that along with cold, wind, many layers.. .. .. Let's put it this way. I have the KOM on a segment on my commute with a time of 56 seconds. Last night: 2 minutes 24 seconds and I was putting some effort in. WOW. I was sure the brakes were dragging and the tires were flat.

    0F this morning. Winter has arrived! Now let's get that lake frozen!

  16. #19066
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    I've been back in the saddle the last two days after spending the holidays in FL. I managed to get in two mtb at Santos in 80+ degree weather. Temps here were in the low 20s this morning with a light wind. It felt like I had a headwind the whole way. Even though it's not that cold, my body hasn't quite adjusted to colder weather yet. I felt really sluggish.

  17. #19067
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    Back to commuting for the first of 2016 and winter has finally arrived here as well. 13F this morning. Since it is the first sub 25F commute of the season for me I opted to be conservative and drive halfway. I'm not confident yet in my clothing/layering choices at this point. I couldn't put my bar mitts on my drop bar commuter because I changed to bar end shifters this year and the cables interfere. Anyone here make that work?

    The real drama of my time off around New Year's came on our New Year's Day Poker Ride, a fundraiser for our local mountain bike club. It was a chilly day, about 23F, with a lot of wind and a lot of whisky. Just a casual cruise around downtown with lots of stair riding and urban dirt exploring. It was really quite fun. UNTIL...

    How was your commute today?-20160101_145950.jpg

    Luckily, it is covered under warranty and the manufacturer has been very responsive with regards to the warranty claim. Sigh...there's a first for everything I guess.

  18. #19068
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    Kleebs - glad you are alright after that happened. You have a Framed correct? Glad to hear that they are working with you to get you covered. Keep us posted as to what happens. Hope you can get a new frame and stuffs swapped over.
    The pedals turn, not just the left one, but the right one too.
    2015 miles: 5019/5000
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  19. #19069
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    Yep it's a Framed. It was really the gentlest frame failure in history haha. There was no big crash or anything. I was riding up a short steep incline and stood up to get over the last little bit when all of a sudden the rear wheel just stopped turning so I stepped off the bike. I thought I bent my axle somehow. So I flipped the bike over and inspected the wheel. It was fine. I was baffled until my buddy noticed the crack. I bent whole rear triangle and the chainstay gave way where you see in the picture above.

    Framed has been cool so far with the warranty process. I'll keep you guys updated as it goes.

  20. #19070
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    Decent ride home last night and a decent ride in this AM. The ice is still coating everything in Anchorage this morning, but yesterday afternoon, with the scrim of water on top of it, it was must more slick than this morning. Wind's still blowing in the Valley. I guess this is the new normal and I think that the Dillinger studs aren't going to cut it and think I should get some Kold Kutters to self-stud up a pair of tires as I have heard that those are the best option when there is lots of glare ice.

  21. #19071
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kleebs View Post
    Yep it's a Framed. It was really the gentlest frame failure in history haha. There was no big crash or anything. I was riding up a short steep incline and stood up to get over the last little bit when all of a sudden the rear wheel just stopped turning so I stepped off the bike. I thought I bent my axle somehow. So I flipped the bike over and inspected the wheel. It was fine. I was baffled until my buddy noticed the crack. I bent whole rear triangle and the chainstay gave way where you see in the picture above.

    Framed has been cool so far with the warranty process. I'll keep you guys updated as it goes.
    Glad to hear it was a "gentle" failure, that's the best kind! Hope you are up and running quickly!

  22. #19072
    Bedwards Of The West
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    Dang Kleebs, that's a bummer!


    Powder day for me! WooHoo! The studs are on and it's still coming down out there. A little less in the valley than there was at home, but a fun, bleak, snowy 8 miles this morning.

    How was your commute today?-screen-shot-2016-01-05-10.29.28-am.jpg

    How was your commute today?-screen-shot-2016-01-05-10.29.44-am.jpg

    How was your commute today?-screen-shot-2016-01-05-10.30.07-am.jpg
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  23. #19073
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    Quote Originally Posted by TenSpeed View Post
    Congrats on the miles!! I am not sure if your goal was 4k or not, but 3976 is nothing to look down your nose at. Best of luck in 2016! We both know you can do it!
    Thanks!

    Yeah, my goal was 4K. I mistyped my actual which ended up at 3926. Only 74 miles short but twice my 2014 actual. Not too bad considering I only got back into riding last year after nearly 15 years off.

    Here's to a safe and high mileage New Year for us all!

  24. #19074
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    Great Pics CB!

    Reminds me of the day after Thanksgiving, we rode 30 miles of trails with the snow coming down. I hadn't put my studs on yet so it was "fun" to say the least. I only took one spill conveniently into a nice soft snow drift.

    Do you wear goggles? Did a CX race on Thanksgiving and my glasses got a layer of ice on them, couldn't see anything. It was a wet snow, pretty rare around here.

  25. #19075
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    Sign says "Bike Path Will Not Be Cleared of Snow by the City of Toronto".

    Sign does not say "Bike Path Will be Blocked with Snow by the City of Toronto".

    These are not the same thing. I don't even know where the hell they got the snow to make that little frozen wall, all the stuff on the ground is otherwise gone.

    Normally something I'd hop over, but I'm not supposed to be straining the gimp knee. i.e. I'm not really supposed to be riding at all, but it's not like I'm gonna drive to work. Ever.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  26. #19076
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    Well the forecast is saying El Nino is actually doing it's thing this week. I think I heard 10 in of rain by the end of the week. This morning's commute was a warm 50f and had no rain falling but the roads were wet. I think I just snuck in during a break really. Should be interesting commute home and tomorrow morning as I think it's supposed to unload.

  27. #19077
    Bedwards Of The West
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    Quote Originally Posted by z1r View Post
    Great Pics CB!

    Do you wear goggles? Did a CX race on Thanksgiving and my glasses got a layer of ice on them, couldn't see anything. It was a wet snow, pretty rare around here.
    I do have goggles... really should have worn them today I resorted to licking my glasses every once in a while. It works in a pinch.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  28. #19078
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    First few commutes of the year have been off to a good start.

    Left the house at 6am and rode 9 miles to work. Hit a muddy area where both tires were fighting for traction. Managed to save it and kept riding.

    On the way home a Mastiff jumped out of a parked pickup and chased me for a bit until he got tired.

    I am on Strava if anyone wants to follow.
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  29. #19079
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    Yeah I better get my understanding of gearing figured out before I do any swaps.

    Rain commute home today. Got soaked with no fenders, but I can suffer the two rain day commutes I face a year without fenders. Supposed to rain most of the week.

  30. #19080
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegascruiser View Post
    Yeah I better get my understanding of gearing figured out before I do any swaps.
    Big chainring (front ring) = harder to push

    Big freewheel/cog (back ring) = easier to push

    To figure out how much harder, divide the number of teeth on the front chainring by the number of teeth on the rear cog. So 40/20 = 2 means that for every rotation of the crank the back wheel spins twice.

    On my fixed/free bike I use 52/20 and 52/18. Used to do 39/16 but found out I was spinning a little fast most the time.
    i am basically just an organic pattern recognition algorithm

  31. #19081
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    -6F in the a.m., 5F for the ride home. OK, but kinda slow. Now Queen and sole occupant of the bike rack at work. Paused for a pic of the golden dome in VT's capital this morning...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails How was your commute today?-12471576_1057327097632607_3999516815430797523_o.jpg  


  32. #19082
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    Not much snow there in VT yet this year?

    Lots of rain here today, this is the only real major intersection on my commute it was funny watching all the drivers that can't drive in the rain spinning out (oil in the road makes it slick, doesn't rain much here).

    2015 Ghost Kato 5
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  33. #19083
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    ^^Nope, maybe 6" at my house now, if that, dust over crust. Nice pic!

  34. #19084
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    I drove.
    The pedals turn, not just the left one, but the right one too.
    2015 miles: 5019/5000
    2016 miles: 3262/6000

  35. #19085
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    I've been off for a few weeks so today's commute was ....what it should be, exciting, relaxing, a good start, and social. The start is a 500 ft descent so who doesn't wanna see how fast they can do it? Then it's a relaxing bike path, and many greetings to other bikers, joggers and the scattered homeless. Then a 1/2 mile 3 lane Blvd and I'm at work. Love it!

  36. #19086
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    ^^Love the snow pictures! I wouldnt mind a good dumping here tbh, make a change from rain..

    Ride home last night was interesting. I'm waiting for my Niterider to be replaced so am on the aged backup blinky light. It's a mediocre here I am light that does not light up the road or way ahead at all! There's a section of mup that I use that's unlit. Once the cars had gone I couldnt see the edge of the mup or the verge so was down to walking pace. There is a white line after a bit on the road edge of the mup that helped but was reliant on passing cars. I need a better backup light!

    Other than that it felt good to be back on the bike after the break.

    This morning was cold, damp, gloomy and still. No foggy but the sound was really deadened as if it was. I'll still be on the blinky for the ride home but at least i'm prepared this time.

  37. #19087
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    Good commute home last night and a nice commute in this morning. Had my first experience with studs yesterday. Not much to report about it yet though except that they are noisy and slow. Is it ok to run them all winter even if the roads are dry?

  38. #19088
    CB of the East
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    ^^If they are carbide yes. If they are steel they wear down fairly fast.
    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer View Post
    -6F in the a.m., 5F for the ride home. OK, but kinda slow. Now Queen and sole occupant of the bike rack at work. Paused for a pic of the golden dome in VT's capital this morning...
    I'm frustratingly slow! It was a toasty 0F here both yesterday and today but it has warmed up to 22F now.

    The lake has skimmed! With luck I'll be able to ride it starting next Monday or so. Will do a skating recon this weekend to check the thickness.

  39. #19089
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kleebs View Post
    Good commute home last night and a nice commute in this morning. Had my first experience with studs yesterday. Not much to report about it yet though except that they are noisy and slow. Is it ok to run them all winter even if the roads are dry?
    Yup, carbide will be absolutely fine. Just avoid the temptation to get real aggressive on those warm, dry days, you can dislodge a stud. Wear will be negligible.

    I was plum wore out yesterday when I got home. Two days of pushing those heavy slow rolling tires and my legs were dead! Had to take a day off today since the kids started back at school. Will ride in Thursday and Friday with snow predicted both days. Viva la studded tires!

  40. #19090
    CB of the East
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    ^^As long as the pocket doesn't tear it's easy enough to replace them.

  41. #19091
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    Thanks for the knowledge fellas. They are carbide. Eventually I'd like to get a second wheelset so I can swap the studs on and off quickly. At one point I had planned to use the slim wheel set for my fat bike to mount the studs so I would have the options of studs, fat, or semi slick 38s all on their own wheelset that I could swap depending on the weather conditions. But alas...I have to wait for the replacement frame for that. I'd like to get some full fenders for the fat bike to do that as well. Those fat tires kick up A LOT of moisture and salt crud from the road.

  42. #19092
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kleebs View Post
    Thanks for the knowledge fellas. They are carbide. Eventually I'd like to get a second wheelset so I can swap the studs on and off quickly. At one point I had planned to use the slim wheel set for my fat bike to mount the studs so I would have the options of studs, fat, or semi slick 38s all on their own wheelset that I could swap depending on the weather conditions. But alas...I have to wait for the replacement frame for that. I'd like to get some full fenders for the fat bike to do that as well. Those fat tires kick up A LOT of moisture and salt crud from the road.
    Framed Minnesota 1.0+ 2.0 - Big O Manufacturing had a set of these on mine. Amazing coverage. I agree with you about the sluggishness of the studded tires. Sounds like I am dragging a chain behind my bike when you hit a spot of clear road.
    The pedals turn, not just the left one, but the right one too.
    2015 miles: 5019/5000
    2016 miles: 3262/6000

  43. #19093
    Bedwards Of The West
    Reputation: CommuterBoy's Avatar
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    Been waiting for this week for at least 3 years

    NorCal is rejoicing.


    How was your commute today?-screen-shot-2016-01-06-9.44.28-am.jpg

    How was your commute today?-screen-shot-2016-01-06-9.44.49-am.jpg

    How was your commute today?-screen-shot-2016-01-06-9.46.49-am.jpg
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  44. #19094
    guy
    Reputation: Kleebs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TenSpeed View Post
    Framed Minnesota 1.0+ 2.0 - Big O Manufacturing had a set of these on mine. Amazing coverage. I agree with you about the sluggishness of the studded tires. Sounds like I am dragging a chain behind my bike when you hit a spot of clear road.
    Yeah those are the ones I'm looking at. How hard were they to install? You don't happen to still have them laying around by chance do you? Also, I ordered your goodies yesterday. Sorry for the delay in doing that.

  45. #19095
    mtbr member
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    Very nice pics CB! Im a bit jealous.....

    Back home in hamburg winter seems.to have arrived for a short period. Snow and temps of -6C but forecasted to go up above freezinglevel tomorrownight. Im a bit annoyed that i took my parental leave just now. Here in the netherlands just 550km/350m away, we have 50.shades of grey only:, cloudy with regular showers and drizzle. No chance to ride the roadbike either, it has no fenders.

    Bedwards: how far do you ride over the lake and do you have some means of orientation in bad visibility?
    Last edited by cyclingdutchman; 01-06-2016 at 11:47 AM.

  46. #19096
    CB of the East
    Reputation: bedwards1000's Avatar
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    There is about 1/2 to 1 mile over the ice depending on the route. It's a long skinny lake so in most places you aren't more than 1000' off shore. Worst case you could get turned around and end up on the wrong shore. I have ridden across in a blizzard at night and you can definitely get out there an not see any shore. It wasn't fun.

  47. #19097
    I'd rather be on my bike
    Reputation: TenSpeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kleebs View Post
    Yeah those are the ones I'm looking at. How hard were they to install? You don't happen to still have them laying around by chance do you? Also, I ordered your goodies yesterday. Sorry for the delay in doing that.
    I don't still have them unfortunately. Was all part of the trade for this SS Carve. The installation was involved. You get to decide where they sit, like how much coverage you get front and rear. They leave the last mount up to you, so you would have to drill the mounting point to the crown of the fork and the rear bridge. As for coverage, they were really good. Took some time to get them perfectly aligned but I imagine that it is like that with any full fender set. I ended up mounting the front one pretty far back to maximize coverage. This did ultimately affect some ground clearance like curbs and the such, just keep that in mind.
    The pedals turn, not just the left one, but the right one too.
    2015 miles: 5019/5000
    2016 miles: 3262/6000

  48. #19098
    z1r
    z1r is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedwards1000 View Post
    ^^As long as the pocket doesn't tear it's easy enough to replace them.
    Where have you found that you can get replacement studs? I came up blank.

  49. #19099
    NDD
    NDD is offline
    Baby boy
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    Pretty relaxed commute today. Ride in was about 27 degrees. Not too shabby, but I was glad to have to balaclava around covering my ears. Only going to volunteer at the local watershed restoration. Last week their visitor's center got flooded. They had as much as 2 ft of water inside, so we cleaned that. They also had me check all of the small engines to make sure they work. The Gator was a-ok, but when I pulled the cord on the lawnmower, water spewed out of the engine.

    Then I basically went home and piddled with my bikes. Good rise in temperature but also a pretty steady headwind on the way back. Got racks put on both bikes and new-barely used tires put on the mtb after getting home. Yay productivity!
    i am basically just an organic pattern recognition algorithm

  50. #19100
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    Man, a flu has just rolled over me today. This morning was a bit of a sore throat, and some fluid in my lungs. But now I'm just bagged - shivery, can barely sit up at my computer, and everything aches. I'm sure the ride home will be fine, but the evening is going to be brutal.

    (and I'm sure tomorrow I'll be fine, but my wife will inevitably suffer with this for weeks)

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