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  1. #1
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    Hi-Vis Makes No Difference?

    ... or to quote, "...it is motorists who need to be brighter"

    High-vis clothing makes little difference for cyclist safety - expert - National News | TVNZ

  2. #2
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    I'll wear it anyway...it could help in court where the defense will use the famous "I didnt see him" or "he came outta no-where" BS lines

  3. #3
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    "However, he did say that wearing high visibility clothing was still a good idea for cyclists.

    "I think there are situations where it can help, when you've got a busy environment or a dark environment, it certainly can't hurt," he said."

    I'll keep wearing Hi-Viz and/or reflective clothing


    NITERIDER by 1nterceptor, on Flickr

  4. #4
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    Several factors are involved with cyclist not being seen.

    1. If you look for oncoming cars you will not see cyclist or motorcyclists.
    2. We don't see as well as we think we do. When we move our head to scan we fill in the part where we moved our attention.

    Saccade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "Trans-saccadic perception[edit]
    It is also thought that perceptual memory is updated during saccades so that information gathered across fixations can be compared and synthesized. However, the entire visual image is not updated during each saccade, only 34 features or objects if they are attended to. Some scientists believe that this is the same as visual working memory, but as in spatial updating the eye movement has to be accounted for. The process of retaining information across a saccade is called trans-saccadic memory and the process of integrating information from more than one fixation is called trans-saccadic integration."

    As I read that it we aren't interested in cyclists they will not be part of the 3-4 features attend to.

    3. I found in my ride by videos, that low beams don't light up Hi-Vis clothing all that well.

    4. The unusual seems to trump the "did not see" problem. Many riders with good lights report more respect and care from drivers when they ride at night. I think this is in part because they are looking for vehicle lights and bike lights fit he bill but are not "normal" and it is hard to estimate speed and direction of a cyclist: more care.

    So Hi-Vis is defense in depth. It is no guarantee. I have almost been hit when i was almost straight ahead when the driver launched, it took him a lane and a half to stop. Hard to miss me when I am right in front of his hood.

    More cyclists and more cycling by those cyclist educate drivers. I feel much safer now than 5 years ago. The complete idiots have dropped from 30-50% depending on time of day to the 5-15% range.

    BrianMc

  5. #5
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    The only place my light mounts can clamp on is near the stem so the two of them are less than 15cm apart. Beyond 10m or so it looks like one light to me. As for the aim, I point them up probably a bit more than I should. Unfortunately it was not possible to purchase bright lights for $30 each two years ago that have decent cut off that would be more appropriate. Not sure if that's possible even today.

    That said, though, I have inadvertently scared some bicyclists into thinking that they were being stalked by an electric car.

  6. #6
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    I don't know about the cyclist/jogger windbreaker that's shown in the photo - I wouldn't be surprised if people see them, they quickly register it as a cyclist, and then they just as quickly disregard it because it's just a cyclist.

    But I think standard transportation safety hi-vis vests might work a little better because they confuse people. Is it a speedtrap, or a construction zone, or an accident? Oh, it's just a cyclist. But that couple moments of confusion is a couple moments when they're actually paying attention for once.

  7. #7
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    ^^ Yes. I use a vest similar to construction/police issue. With an array of flashing lights, I have been told I was confused with being an emergency vehicle. Punching through the brain fog and getting them aware that something is there is an accomplishment. As the article indicates, they are not THE answer. Just a bit of help.

  8. #8
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    Police or just a nice request?

    Polite Cycling Waistcoat

  9. #9
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    When I drive I definatly try to make allowances for bike riders...

    It certainly helps when you can see the riders.....imagine a rider dressed in black riding down the middle of a street with just a few street lights....often I can't see them until it is far too late...

    On the other hand, once the car drivers can see the riders easily...there is the law of dimishing returns....

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1nterceptor View Post
    That. Is. Awesome.

  11. #11
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    ^^

    "This is not an unmarked POLICE cyclist" Would also work. Of course many would not get the humor.

    BrianMc

  12. #12
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    So I'm guessing they looked at the police reports for the 84 dead cyclists, and no surprise, pretty much all the drivers said "I didn't see them", no matter what they were wearing. I don't think that proves too much about hi-viz. It's pretty hard to measure how many accidents were prevented because of hi-viz, since um, they didn't happen.

  13. #13
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    I wear hi rez eyes instead, and this summer i'm getting a real powerful dazzler for the rear, and maybe one of those noisemaking devices.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    I wear hi rez eyes instead, and this summer i'm getting a real powerful dazzler for the rear, and maybe one of those noisemaking devices.
    4-5 baseball cards in the spokes

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer View Post
    So I'm guessing they looked at the police reports for the 84 dead cyclists, and no surprise, pretty much all the drivers said "I didn't see them", no matter what they were wearing. I don't think that proves too much about hi-viz. It's pretty hard to measure how many accidents were prevented because of hi-viz, since um, they didn't happen.
    Yes there is a certain aspect of running faster than the next guy to escape the lion that escaped the zoo. You don't need to be a world class runner, just fast enough to escape danger. You don't need to have 10,000 candlepower of lights. If you are recognized that split second sooner so that a driver turned to avoid or did not launch, it is a success. Avoiding times of drunk and teenage drivers helps. A study would need a large database of riders reporting all near misses and minor contacts in addition to ones needing the police (and correct for any differences other than Hi-Vis clothing). Even then, the mindset of cyclists who would use or eschew Hi-Vis may well be a factor in how risky they ride and how likely they are to be hit.

    BrianMc

  16. #16
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    About half those 84 deaths involved a motor vehicle. The submission was made at a coronial inquiry into four deaths in the south island, two of those were downhill road crashes and the other two involving cars were on rural roads, one of those the cyclist was lying on the road drunk and the other was hit from behind at night with no lighting on a winding road.
    The inquiry is part of larger one but still only covers a few of those 84 deaths so it's good to know researchers like Glen have made submissions.
    Glen's hometown became hi-vizville after earthquakes with roadworks and warnings everywhere and for years to come so orange is like camo and a lot of cyclists distinguish themselves in green. It's midwinter and lights have never been better so we now have an epidemic of blinding helmet lamps and strobes and the brightest tail lights ever, it's crazy lighting has got so good so quickly yet turn signals aren't the norm.

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