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  1. #1
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    Drivetrain Q's. X-Post from Drivetrain

    I posted this over in the drivetrain forum, but it might not get any responses because it'd be a somewhat unusual setup.

    I'm going to be swapping frames on my commuter. Probably Salsa Vaya.

    I'm currently SS, but want to move to a 1x drivetrain, probably 1x10. I have BB7 mtn brake calipers. Going SRAM would be easiest from a drivetrain setup, but because I have long pull calipers, I'd have to buy new brakes, also. I'd like to make this work with as much of my current gear as possible.

    So here are my thoughts:
    Retroshift levers: Retroshift CX | Mud Proof Shifting for Cyclocross. Designed by Goats. Work with long pull brakes. Shimano only 1x10 option. No SRAM option.
    Shimano Deore LX rear derailleur. 9spd rear derailleurs work with 10spd Shimano road shifters according to many sources.
    11-36 cassette

    Where I am a bit unsure and have questions is with regards to the rear derailleur and the cassette compatibility. The derailleur's tech doc at Shimano states a max cog size of 34t. Has anyone run a 9spd derailleur with road shifters and a 11-36 cassette? I suppose I can go with an 11-34 cassette if I have to, but I'd rather get a little more range in my gearing if I can.

  2. #2
    Squeaky Wheel
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    A 36T max cog will likely work fine on a derailleur spec'ed for a 34T max cog. I ran a 32T max cog on a Shimano Ultegra derailleur spec'ed for 28T and Ultegra shifters for years with no problem. You'll likely have to dink with the "B" screw so the jockey wheel clears the biggest cog, which may make your shifting a little less crisp, but honestly I never noticed any shifting problems in my setup.

    The derailleur spec you normally need to pay attention to in this situation is the max take-up specification. But since you are going 1x you should be well inside the range for the derailleur. Good luck!

  3. #3
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    Drivetrain Q's. X-Post from Drivetrain

    Thanks. Got a response from a guy in the drivetrain forum saying he's running 9spd with 36t with no issues.

    I have read about other folks fudging 2 extra teeth out of 28t spec'd road derailleurs so I was hoping the same would be true with mtb derailleurs.

    Should be an interesting setup for me. Gonna play with chainring sizes a bit and when I settle on one, will get a Wolf Tooth ring.

  4. #4
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    Check with CB about road and MTN pull brake levers. Seems to me he found little difference and he could mix and match his BB7's but I may have misunderstood him on that.

    I run the errand bike 11-34 with a 42. Don't get to use the top end much (need a good tail wind) and could use a lower ratio on the last hill into a 20 mph wind, but that old Sugino crankset was just lying around. I did not change out the old 6 speed DR as it was handling the 34, but a spring in it failed and it went intro the wheel, so working and lasting are two different things. I have a long cage Deore on it now good for at least a 36 on the back.

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    Drivetrain Q's. X-Post from Drivetrain

    Sounds like a good starting point. I have 42 and 44 tooth chainrings already that I can use for experimentation. I have already done some comparisons with traditional road setups using sheldon brown's gear calculators and what I settle with will depend on how low I feel like I need and how tall I can sustain. I think all else equal I'd rather have low gears I rarely use than tall gears I rarely use.

  6. #6
    jrm
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    I assume your talking about using a traditional drop bar on the vaya? Bar end index/friction shifters mounted as thumbies or on the bar ends would allow you to use darn near any set up mixing mtb and road components. My franken set up is a 11-32 cassette, short cage xt RD, SLX FD and a converted ultegra triple 42-28. Also mtn BB7s will work with road levers but youll have to use a travel agent to make up for the difference in cable pull. Im using mtn BB&s with CC V levers and its all good. YMMV

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc View Post
    Check with CB about road and MTN pull brake levers. Seems to me he found little difference and he could mix and match his BB7's but I may have misunderstood him on that.
    This is true. I've used road levers and mountain levers with my "MTN" BB7's with no issues. I don't think the difference is that big.
    I run 11-34 8-speed with bar end shifters currently, and a shimano long cage mountain derailleur.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    I think all else equal I'd rather have low gears I rarely use than tall gears I rarely use.
    I've been riding my 1x9 a lot this summer, leaving my singlespeeds to feel a little bit abandoned.

    My only worry/curiosity is that when I'm on the road I'm in my two smallest cogs, and I'm not sure what that will mean for cassette wear in the longterm.

    The flipside though, is that with a triple I almost never shifted the rear. Big ring for road, middle for dirt, and granny for steep climbs - but always the same 1 or 2 cogs in the back. So my favorite gears got worn, but the rest of the cassette would be untouched. With the 1x setup I'm all over the place, so we'll see what happens.

  9. #9
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    Drivetrain Q's. X-Post from Drivetrain

    Quote Originally Posted by jrm View Post
    I assume your talking about using a traditional drop bar on the vaya? Bar end index/friction shifters mounted as thumbies or on the bar ends would allow you to use darn near any set up mixing mtb and road components. My franken set up is a 11-32 cassette, short cage xt RD, SLX FD and a converted ultegra triple 42-28. Also mtn BB7s will work with road levers but youll have to use a travel agent to make up for the difference in cable pull. Im using mtn BB&s with CC V levers and its all good. YMMV
    You didn't click the link on the retroshift levers, did you? I already ordered my set so it's a done deal. But the shifting is done with thumbies/downtube shifters mounted ON the brake lever.

    I didn't want to use a travel agent. This is the first I've heard of anyone using short pull levers with long pull calipers. I figured they'd be different enough that there would be lack of power issues

  10. #10
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    I'll also mention that I think I'm going to experiment with drops on my winter bike this year. I've already got the bars and the levers, but because I'm feeling super cheap I'm going to mount my old trigger shifter on a handlebar extender like this:


    (from EcoVelo Blog Archive Alfine Shifter with Drop Bars)

    The retroshifts seem like a great idea, but I still can't get over how pricey dropbar shifting is. Why is a barcon $100, and why are there no vaguely cheap options (beyond these)?

  11. #11
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    I got my 8 speed Shimano bar end shifters for $54 on a crazy sale...normally $75 or something... it is silly.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled View Post
    The retroshifts seem like a great idea, but I still can't get over how pricey dropbar shifting is. Why is a barcon $100, and why are there no vaguely cheap options (beyond these)?
    I get you. I went with a set of the CXV-1's (pretty much all they had left, anyway), for just under $150 shipped. Considering that even with my shop discount, I couldn't get a halfway decent set of Shimano or SRAM brifters for anywhere within $50 of that, I figured I'd take it. The retroshifts would probably be cheaper if they were a bigger company selling more of them.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy View Post
    I got my 8 speed Shimano bar end shifters for $54 on a crazy sale...normally $75 or something... it is silly.
    I swear it's just because they're called dura-ace. I know it's a pretty nichey part, but how about an alivo or sora version for $20? Oh well, I think my $10 barextender should fit the bill.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled View Post
    I swear it's just because they're called dura-ace. I know it's a pretty nichey part, but how about an alivo or sora version for $20? Oh well, I think my $10 barextender should fit the bill.
    A number of guys at the shop where I worked this summer were EXTREMELY disparaging about bar end shifters. I don't really understand why.

    I also had some interesting interactions with SRAM and Shimano guys about their new hydraulic levers. I'd ask if they were ever going to introduce a hydraulic brake-only drop bar lever. They all looked at me like I was nuts. Both the SRAM and Shimano guys told me to just buy their top end hydro brifters and remove the shifty bits and voila!

  15. #15
    jrm
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    Nay. I didn't. $129 for just the levers isn't bad. Not to mention theyd work really well on my mungo bar'd CX bike.

  16. #16
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    Man I love my bar end shifters. For the commute/touring they're the cat's pajamas. Allows me to run $10 tektro brake levers for my BB7's also. And if the derailleur adjustment gets a little off..flip the little lever and they're friction shifters. I can put off maintenance for WEEKS!

    In a pinch (if I want knobbies and fenders) I can throw my mountain bike wheels on the commuter bike, which have a 9 speed cassette instead of 8 speed, and flip to friction mode, and it works just fine. I can't think of another shifter option where you can do that.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
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    (no excuse for that either)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy View Post
    Man I love my bar end shifters. For the commute/touring they're the cat's pajamas. Allows me to run $10 tektro brake levers for my BB7's also. And if the derailleur adjustment gets a little off..flip the little lever and they're friction shifters. I can put off maintenance for WEEKS!

    In a pinch (if I want knobbies and fenders) I can throw my mountain bike wheels on the commuter bike, which have a 9 speed cassette instead of 8 speed, and flip to friction mode, and it works just fine. I can't think of another shifter option where you can do that.
    Oh, I know. You don't have to tell me about it. The guys that bag on bar end shifters (among other things, honestly) kinda have that stereotypical roadie mentality. The owner wants to get into "adventure biking" at the shop, and with guys that bag on anything that's not a race-ready bike, I'm not sure how he's going to pull it off. We had a couple Disc Truckers with barcons in the shop and I swear I was the only person presenting those bikes to customers as an option.

    I was honestly considering a set of bar end shifters to accompany the Tektro brake levers I already have, but a set of 10s barcons gets us back to newfangled's complaint about the expense of drop bar shifting.

  18. #18
    Squeaky Wheel
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    I've been kind of eyeballing these:

    Amazon.com: TRP HY/RD Cable-Actuated Hydraulic Disc Brake w/ 160mm Rotor Black: Sports & Outdoors

    I could use them with my existing brifters.

  19. #19
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    Drivetrain Q's. X-Post from Drivetrain

    Quote Originally Posted by woodway View Post
    I've been kind of eyeballing these:

    Amazon.com: TRP HY/RD Cable-Actuated Hydraulic Disc Brake w/ 160mm Rotor Black: Sports & Outdoors

    I could use them with my existing brifters.
    Yeah, probably still the most viable option...or maybe a Parabox. These are somewhat less expensive, though. Not thrilled that Shimano's hydro levers are only available in DI2 flavor. Will be a long time before that system is affordable.

    SRAM's will probably get more early adopters, and then the roadies will get to experience the turkey warble and the limitations of DOT systems. I'm a dedicated mineral oil user and will never go DOT.

  20. #20
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    "Upgraded" my plan to a 9spd SLX derailleur. Not quite as cheap as the Deore LX, but I like the improved cable routing and lower profile of the Shadow derailleurs. wasn't sure I'd be able to get one of those, since they weren't made for all that long, but found Chain Reaction had a nice selection of 9spd mtn derailleurs. Also went with a med cage version, which should help keep chain slop to a minimum since I'll be 1x10.

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