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  1. #1
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    Why all the hate?

    http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2009...line---17elet/


    Ah, Boulder. How I love thee. Scroll down to the comment section for a laugh, or a cry.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  2. #2
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    WTF is wrong with people?! How are you going to hate on cyclists? I mean come on. Do people around here seriously not have anything better to whine about? I invite them to move to LA, New York City, Detroit, etc. Then they can see some real problems and real troublemakers. They'd be praising Colorado's bicycle community after seeing the alternative.

    I loved when the guy said bikes were "mechanized conveyances" and "jarring disruptions" akin to ATVs and snowmobiles. What an idiot. I don't get the mentality from hikers that they somehow own trail systems, even ones that mountain bikers and their organizations built!

    Oh and let's get license plates for bikes and charge based on a percent of our bike value too! Afterall, bike lanes aren't free! Everyone knows most bikers don't have cars with their own plates and don't pay taxes either.

    This just confirms what I've believed all along.... the vast majority of people in this world are stupid, or sheep.

  3. #3
    drinks from the fountain
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    I don't really understand the haters. WHY do we continue the Us vs. Them attitude?
    I guess I'll be a sheep. I hate the wind. Damn the wind. Doesn't the wind realize it spreads trash all over my lawn? That it is really hard to ride when the wind blows so hard. I am pretty sure the wind has broken the speed limit today. The police turn a blind eye. Maybe if we could identify the wind somehow. Ahhh.... Licence the Gusts!
    pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

  4. #4
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    When I moved from Ohio to Colorado I thought I was moving to a MORE bike friendly region.

  5. #5
    mutaullyassuredsuffering
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    ugh

    My four year sentence in Boulder County was enough for one lifetime. The attitude of "I don't like it so ban it" will eventually lead to a world with no freedom at all. we all dislike something....
    Free will is an illusion, people will always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

  6. #6
    hehe ...you said "member"
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    Boulder never ceases to amaze me ... I've lived here my entire life and I'm no closer to figuring that town out than I was 25 years ago.
    “Me fail english? Thats unpossible.” - Matt Groening

  7. #7
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    freakin Boulder!

  8. #8
    183 BRO's before hoes.
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    Yea why should cyclists have to signal and, god forbid, stop.

    It's not like bikes are vehicles or anything? Oh wait...


    If you want your little bike to be treated as a vehicle, use it as one.

  9. #9
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    The daily camera is a flame fest no matter what the topic. Most boulderites are bike friendly - on or off the trail.

  10. #10
    feel the Force
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansible
    The daily camera is a flame fest no matter what the topic. Most boulderites are bike friendly - on or off the trail.
    I couldn't agree more. The Camera knows that when it prints these articles, it gets everyone riled up and reading their version of "journalism". It's purely a ploy to keep people reading, nothing more. Did you see that the "law officer" they talked to about the 3 foot law was the Larimer County Sheriff? Obviously you know what he's going to say. Again, just trying to breed controversy. If you never read the Camera, then you never feel the hate!
    A punctured bicycle
    on a hillside desolate,
    will nature make a man of me yet...
    -Morrissey

  11. #11
    trail waggler
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    I can't STAND....

    Intolerance!!

    For every hundred people with a smile, there often seems to be one guy with a frown and a bullhorn!
    MY dog can lick YOUR dog!

  12. #12
    zrm
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    Compared to most cities in this country, Boulder is bike nirvana.

  13. #13
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    Yeah, I guess it just astounds me that there's even such hate for cyclists. I mean, I can understand the crazy bike messenger who weaves in and out of traffic, blows through red lights, leans on your car in intersections, dresses emo, feels like he or she belongs to some trendy hipster super exclusive club or something....but I haven't seen those here! I hate those guys too! We're not all like that.

    It always amazes me when hikers have issues with mountain bikers. I mean, you'd think there'd be some kind of common comraderie between nature lovers and outdoor enthusiasts. We may be on bikes, but we're out there to enjoy nature too.

    I love when people talk about being spooked on the trail. Ever since the iPod, I've seen so many walkers and joggers out on the trail with cranked earbuds. You try and let them know you're coming, but they don't hear you yelling. Then they get spooked when you creep up on them.
    Gotta get up to get down.
    LMB

  14. #14
    feel the Force
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaeckerX1

    It always amazes me when hikers have issues with mountain bikers. I mean, you'd think there'd be some kind of common comraderie between nature lovers and outdoor enthusiasts. We may be on bikes, but we're out there to enjoy nature too.

    I love when people talk about being spooked on the trail. Ever since the iPod, I've seen so many walkers and joggers out on the trail with cranked earbuds. You try and let them know you're coming, but they don't hear you yelling. Then they get spooked when you creep up on them.
    It's just this country's self centered-ness. Everyone's in their own little world and damn anyone else who breaks the bubble.
    A punctured bicycle
    on a hillside desolate,
    will nature make a man of me yet...
    -Morrissey

  15. #15
    GL1
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbjedi1
    It's just this country's self centered-ness. Everyone's in their own little world and damn anyone else who breaks the bubble.
    Well said.

    In my experience though it's not just this country, but the world (and Boulder sometimes especially) that's a complete contradiction. Despite the constant idealism that is espoused concerning the environment, freedom of thought, academic freedom, and on and on, we find the same hippocritical, ego-centered human beings that we find everywehere...including the one that looks back at me in the mirror every day. The only thing that separates any of us is that some of us have seen that we have this condition, and some refuse to see it within themselves. And, to that point, even seeing it doesn't make anyone better...but it can make them blessed.

    I gave up on reading The Camera a long time ago as well as many other mainstream media sources. They can only reflect what the world is now. I used to be amazed at how selfish and hippocritical both the world and myself were, as can be evidenced by this article and the comments at the end of it. For me, to be honest, these sort of things used to get me fired up. Peace only came through the Bible and through Christ. It was the first time I saw the real problem in myself, and the real answers. It helps me to see and understand things as they are here and now...and give grace to others as I have been given although I still don't ever get it completely right. Anyway, just my opinion. Take what you will.
    Last edited by GL1; 02-18-2009 at 09:14 AM.

  16. #16
    Let There Be Dirt
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    BaekerX1

    Let me get this straight........It's O.K. for you to express hate for another subset of your fellow cyclists ( bike messenger types) but not for a self centered hiker to vent his frustration at his distaste for sharing the trails with another user group with which he feels no common bond. Remember, though that letter writer made his feelings pretty clear, we don't know if he actually hates cyclists--he never used the word HATE.

    It seems to be human nature to coalesce in to groups. Just look at the intolerance that can be found in the MTBR forums even among a group of people who supposedly share a common interest. GL1 nailed it when he said we are all ego-centric and hypocritical by nature. What is pathetic is not being able to recognize it in ourselves when it occurs.

    Time to go ride now before the wind kicks up. I hate the wind.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSIDE
    Let me get this straight........It's O.K. for you to express hate for another subset of your fellow cyclists ( bike messenger types) but not for a self centered hiker to vent his frustration at his distaste for sharing the trails with another user group with which he feels no common bond. Remember, though that letter writer made his feelings pretty clear, we don't know if he actually hates cyclists--he never used the word HATE.

    It seems to be human nature to coalesce in to groups. Just look at the intolerance that can be found in the MTBR forums even among a group of people who supposedly share a common interest. GL1 nailed it when he said we are all ego-centric and hypocritical by nature. What is pathetic is not being able to recognize it in ourselves when it occurs.

    Time to go ride now before the wind kicks up. I hate the wind.
    Well. It's not so much me hating on a specific group per say. It's more a small select cross section and the attitude they display. I came from Cleveland, where certain bike messengers were really agressive in downtown city traffic. Plus most seemed to have poor attitude toward everyone outside their little clique. I once saw one run a red light and get smacked by an oncoming car and fly over the hood. This person got up and beat on the car's hood and started screaming at the driver. It's just people like that who give other cyclists a bad name. Maybe I shouldn't have generalized, and "hate" is a strong word. I shouldn't say I "hate" them. That's not really true. It was merely a case of "firing for effect". I just don't approve of their methods or their attitudes. Once again I'm speaking of the type not seen around here (unless you have a bunch like this in downtown Denver, I don't know), so you shouldn't speak too much unless you know what I'm talking about. I do agree with some of your sentiments, or at least your noble intentions, but your comparison is not a direct comparison. They are completely unrelated. I am expressing a dislike for people who display a certain attitude and a reckless disregard for rules and safety. Just like I have a dislike for "arrogant" hikers who think they own the trails. I never said "I hate bike messengers" or "I hate hikers." Next time you want to play the hero and the idealist, at least read deeper into my statements before you cast the stone. That's all I have. It's not worth getting worked up over.
    Gotta get up to get down.
    LMB

  18. #18
    holding back the darkness
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    Well... we could call Mr. Anthony Contrada and share our side of things invite him to a meeting or something..... See if there was a simple misunderstanding that could be ironed out with a little tolerance and communication.

    Anthony Contrada
    357 South McCaslin Blvd., Suite 200
    Louisville, CO 80027
    Phone: 303.981.0211
    Fax: 303.926.5201
    **** censorship

  19. #19
    Let There Be Dirt
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    Thanks for the Advice

    and the clarification on what you really meant write. These forums are a great place to vent. Should be some great riding weather on the Front Range this weekend as long as that damn wind stays down!

  20. #20
    Rolling
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    Keep in mind, the Daily Camera editorials-- and the replies are the loud minority.

  21. #21
    Let There Be Dirt
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    Those Loud Minorities

    Can get trails closed to us. They are a vocal and focused minority( anti-biker hikers) and tend to have a lot more sway with land use managers than a diffuse and unorganized majority( multi-use advocates and mountain bikers). I live in an area where there where plans for significant expansion of trails was in the works in a large parcel of open space. It was shut down by a very small group of Anti-Trail residents who also would like to limit the presence of bikers in the area. They were a shrill, threatening minority that were able to intimidate the land managers in to shelving those plans. This bunch was even threatening lawsuits. The problem with these groups is that they may have a few valid issues wrapped up along with their knee jerk hysteria and I think they recruit more moderate and tolerant non-bikers that would otherwise be more sympathetic to multi-use trails. It is to those on-the -fence hikers that mountain bikers need to present a friendly, rational and compromising face.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSIDE
    Can get trails closed to us. They are a vocal and focused minority( anti-biker hikers) and tend to have a lot more sway with land use managers than a diffuse and unorganized majority( multi-use advocates and mountain bikers). I live in an area where there where plans for significant expansion of trails was in the works in a large parcel of open space. It was shut down by a very small group of Anti-Trail residents who also would like to limit the presence of bikers in the area. They were a shrill, threatening minority that were able to intimidate the land managers in to shelving those plans. This bunch was even threatening lawsuits. The problem with these groups is that they may have a few valid issues wrapped up along with their knee jerk hysteria and I think they recruit more moderate and tolerant non-bikers that would otherwise be more sympathetic to multi-use trails. It is to those on-the -fence hikers that mountain bikers need to present a friendly, rational and compromising face.
    Very true. I agree with you there. America is full of all these types of cases. Like the fact that we have idiot proof labels on everything because of all the frivolous lawsuits. Our coffee has CAUTION: HOT! written all over it because some lady got 1 million dollars or something because she spilled it on herself and thought it was cold coffee.

    But your on the trail actions will really set the tone for how hikers and others view us. I saw some spandex-clad xc racer type on Marchall Mesa come blazing down the hill I was going up, blow by me and almost run over a group of hikers the other day. I just shook my head and sighed.
    Gotta get up to get down.
    LMB

  23. #23
    GL1
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaeckerX1
    Very true. I agree with you there. America is full of all these types of cases. Like the fact that we have idiot proof labels on everything because of all the frivolous lawsuits. Our coffee has CAUTION: HOT! written all over it because some lady got 1 million dollars or something because she spilled it on herself and thought it was cold coffee.

    But your on the trail actions will really set the tone for how hikers and others view us. I saw some spandex-clad xc racer type on Marchall Mesa come blazing down the hill I was going up, blow by me and almost run over a group of hikers the other day. I just shook my head and sighed.
    Agreed. Our trail actions speak VERY loudly and I've had to adjust my behavior because honestly there have been times I have been less than friendly to hikers in the past...or more, just wrapped up in my own world.

    Personally, and as a person who has and continues to attend a lot of the JCOS COMBA meetings, I feel that based on our population here on the front range etc., it's time for some biker-only trails. I have watched the evolution as I grew up here and and started riding over 15 years ago. MTB was an anomoly then and you could go to WR on a Sat at 9am, ride all day and see maybe two other people. Times have changed and I've come to grips with the fact that although the population has grown, so have other opportunities such as jobs (okay maybe now isn't the best time to talk about that), infrastructure, and just the plain old fact that some nice people have moved here. And when it comes down to it, I have faced the fact that I really don't have more of a "right" to the trail than any other user. So, I think it's simply time to institute some pragmatic solutions like hiker-only (which JCOS has already done) and biker-only trails. They have done this in CA in places and it works well. This is the best solution I think for maximizing everyone's enjoyment since the main issue is the speed at which we (the different user groups) enjoy and experience the trail. Then there's the issue of directional trails which is interesting but we'll see. Anyway, I just dislike this all or nothing approach that the extremists take. There is almost always a pragmatic solution in the middle and if we can stip away a little pride and offer each other some grace I think that goes a long way. I have seen that overcome a lot of anger at the JCOS meetings.

  24. #24
    Rolling
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSIDE
    Can get trails closed to us. They are a vocal and focused minority( anti-biker hikers) and tend to have a lot more sway with land use managers than a diffuse and unorganized majority( multi-use advocates and mountain bikers). I live in an area where there where plans for significant expansion of trails was in the works in a large parcel of open space. It was shut down by a very small group of Anti-Trail residents who also would like to limit the presence of bikers in the area. They were a shrill, threatening minority that were able to intimidate the land managers in to shelving those plans. This bunch was even threatening lawsuits. The problem with these groups is that they may have a few valid issues wrapped up along with their knee jerk hysteria and I think they recruit more moderate and tolerant non-bikers that would otherwise be more sympathetic to multi-use trails. It is to those on-the -fence hikers that mountain bikers need to present a friendly, rational and compromising face.
    I used to think that but I don't anymore.

    The land managers are smart enough to see the few wackos who just complain. Sure an organized group like BMA and IMBA can influence things but those people who post on the camera editorials are simply ranting. They might be loud, but they are not organized. To believe they influence things that much is insulting the intelligence of the decision makers.

    If that happened in your case, sorry, you were unfortunate and had poor land managers. The opposite case that happened here was the neighbors in Lyons trying to stop the Picture Rock Trailhead. The Open space people didn't let those few push them around.

    BTW, I'm talking about ranting on the Daily Camera, which triggered this thread, not about how you behave when you ride your bike on the trail.

    BTW, there are probably more people who don't live in Boulder posting comments on the D.C. forum than who actually live here (I believe this because there is a bunch of regulars and when you read enough of their posts, the tend to reveal that they don't even live in Boulder at one point or another--usually when they get told not to live here if they don't like it). That is the strangest part of all.

  25. #25
    I heart the drops
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    Hey I just thought I would share this one I can't believe what goes through these peoples heads before they make accusations.

    http://shelleytherepublican.com/2007...ed-menace.aspx
    "its not how slack your head angle is, its how you ride the bike"

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