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  1. #1
    ColoradoCoolBreeze
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    Where does it say...Uphill has the right of way???



    Can some one give me a link to a Federal website stating "uphill mountain bikers have the right-a way over down hill"?

    I just spent 1 hour on google looking for something official and could not fine one website with this rule. I did find lots of Rules of the Trail:

    Sierra Club Conservation Policies
    Off Road Use of Bicycles
    I. POLICY
    Appendix E - Trail User Etiquette and Education
    1. In order to minimize conflicts with other trail users, bicyclists should know and use the established Rules of the Trail: - Ride on open trails only. - Leave no trace. - Control your bicycle. - Always yield trail. - Never scare animals. - Plan ahead.
    2. Bicyclists should know and follow applicable laws and regulations.
    3. Bicyclists yield trail to foot travelers, both animal and human. Yielding trail means: slow down, be prepared to stop; establish communication; dismount when appropriate; and pass safely.
    =======
    MBA Mountain Bike Rules of the Trail (IMBA)
    From Kevin Tisue,
    Your Guide to Mountain Biking.
    The following is the official list of mountain biking rules of the trail from IMBA, otherwise known as the International Mountain Bicycling Association.
    These mountain bike rules are designed to minimize our impact on our environment as well as promote friendly relationships between all trail users by creating a safe environment for us all. By following these rules we help ensure our access to trails in our local communities will continue and hopefully grow.
    Every mountain biker should know and live by these mountain biking rules from IMBA:
    Rules of the Trail
    The way we ride today shapes mountain bike trail access tomorrow. Do your part to preserve and enhance our sport's access and image by observing the following rules of the trail, formulated by IMBA, the International Mountain Bicycling Association. These rules are recognized around the world as the standard code of conduct for mountain bikers. IMBA's mission is to promote mountain bicycling that is environmentally sound and socially responsible.
    1. Ride On Open Trails Only.
    Respect trail and road closures - ask if uncertain; avoid trespassing on private land; obtain permits or other authorization as may be required. Federal and state Wilderness areas are closed to cycling. The way you ride will influence trail management decisions and policies.
    2. Leave No Trace.
    Be sensitive to the dirt beneath you. Recognize different types of soils and trail construction; practice low-impact cycling. Wet and muddy trails are more vulnerable to damage. When the trailbed is soft, consider other riding options. This also means staying on existing trails and not creating new ones. Don't cut switchbacks. Be sure to pack out at least as much as you pack in.
    3. Control Your Bicycle!
    Inattention for even a second can cause problems. Obey all bicycle speed regulations and recommendations.
    4. Always Yield Trail.
    Let your fellow trail users know you're coming. A friendly greeting or bell is considerate and works well; don't startle others. Show your respect when passing by slowing to a walking pace or even stopping. Anticipate other trail users around corners or in blind spots. Yielding means slow down, establish communication, be prepared to stop if necessary and pass safely.
    5. Never Scare Animals.
    All animals are startled by an unannounced approach, a sudden movement, or a loud noise. This can be dangerous for you, others, and the animals. Give animals extra room and time to adjust to you. When passing horses use special care and follow directions from the horseback riders - ask if uncertain. Running cattle and disturbing wildlife is a serious offense. Leave gates as you found them, or as marked.
    6. Plan Ahead.
    Know your equipment, your ability, and the area in which you are riding -- and prepare accordingly. Be self-sufficient at all times, keep your equipment in good repair, and carry necessary supplies for changes in weather or other conditions. A well-executed trip is a satisfaction to you and not a burden to others. Always wear a helmet and appropriate safety gear.
    Keep trails open by setting a good example of environmentally sound and socially responsible off-road cycling.
    ========
    The MMBA has adopted the International Mountain Biking Association's (IMBA) Rules of the Trail.
    ========

    So who is the "who said of the greatest magnitude" that states the uphill rider has the right-of-way?

    thanks
    STL

  2. #2
    cheeseburger in paradise
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    I don't think it's a rule. Just common sense courtesy. It's a courtesy that isn't specific to mountain biking, but has been adopted by mountain biking. Not sure where it all started, maybe with cars on steep narrow roads, or maybe even wagons for all I know.

  3. #3
    e-misanthrope
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    It's common courtesy - rule or not. I've been riding primarily DH lately, and I still get pissed when some douche fails to yield for climbers.

    Not flaming you - but it's a sad state of affairs when a person looks to rules and regulations to guide their behavior.
    Don't waive your rights with your flags.

  4. #4
    MK_
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    Just think about the effort required to resume riding when your going uphill vs downhill. And the physical effort of going uphill vs. downhill and your common sense ought to steer you in the direction of yielding to uphill traffic out of sheer courtesy.

    (This BTW ought to be respected by hikers, too. Since it takes no effort for them to step to the side for a brief moment while the uphill biker pedals past. Especially on tech sections. Hikers have in my experience showed the worst trail manners.)

    _MK
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    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
    -- Einstein, Albert

  5. #5
    Mythical Creature
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    It's bicycle community 101 - and has nadda to do with hiker/equestrian rules or Federal Law... Took me exactly 10 seconds to find the link, copy it, and paste it here.

    LINK

    For the attention defecit disorder types, I quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by IMBA
    "...Be familiar with who has the right of way while on the trail. For instance, a rider going uphill has the right of way, and a rider coming downhill must yield. Hikers and equestrians have the right of way over any cyclist. ..."
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  6. #6
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    I think it is an overall rule of courtesy but not one that is strict. Whenever two chaps meet on a trail both should simply assess for who it is easier to get-going again after stopping/making room. In many cases this is the one coming down - but not allways.

    As an example think of a technical section. I would always stop for the one already in there. Regardless if she/he climbs or decents.

    No excuses in my mind for anybody going too fast to stop. Bombing DH on public trails, racing into blind corners is simply not on. It is gross neglect, borders on criminal behavior and no responsible biker does that.

  7. #7
    Inflexable...
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    If everyone would just start riding double track this would not be an issue.


    IMBA creates rules that are not enforcable but are designed to appeal to riders with common sense...
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  8. #8
    Bad Case of the Mondays
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_
    Just think about the effort required to resume riding when your going uphill vs downhill. And the physical effort of going uphill vs. downhill and your common sense ought to steer you in the direction of yielding to uphill traffic out of sheer courtesy.
    Well said.

  9. #9
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    Are you talking about horses or bikers? Only "asshats" hold the uphill line, eh? Seems like there may be more asshats out there than you guessed.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  10. #10
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    Never the less, I wish it was the other way around. I hate stopping when I am enjoying a great, fast downhill cruise; I often appreciate the excuse to take a break on a long uphill grind. But, the precedent has been set, and I don't see any chance that my preference will ever prevail.

  11. #11
    Mythical Creature
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonkedAgain
    Never the less, I wish it was the other way around. I hate stopping when I am enjoying a great, fast downhill cruise; I often appreciate the excuse to take a break on a long uphill grind. But, the precedent has been set, and I don't see any chance that my preference will ever prevail.
    Um, unless you go ride DH on DH trails! Der. Get the best of both worlds - lifts to help you get UP, and no one in the way on the way down...

    Or - go live in a place that ain't so clogged up with pesky people preventing your preference from prevailing!



    Christ almighty, it does indeed suck to have to share... AND be courteous!
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  12. #12
    ColoradoCoolBreeze
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenzx
    It's bicycle community 101 - and has nadda to do with hiker/equestrian rules or Federal Law... Took me exactly 10 seconds to find the link, copy it, and paste it here.

    LINK

    For the attention defecit disorder types, I quote:
    That is kinda what I thought. No real rule...

    If an uphill rider complained to a park ranger or whatever trail official was present. The official would have no rule to enforce. So we are back to "Right of Weight" if you think the downhiller is going to clobber you, you better move. Being dead right is never a good position.

    I for one like IMBA's rule #4 specifically the last sentence.
    "4. Always Yield Trail.
    Let your fellow trail users know you're coming. A friendly greeting or bell is considerate and works well; don't startle others. Show your respect when passing by slowing to a walking pace or even stopping. Anticipate other trail users around corners or in blind spots. Yielding means slow down, establish communication, be prepared to stop if necessary and pass safely. "

    This makes more sense (to me) for bikers going up or down. Every case/incounter is going to be different. Both riders need to get by safely and that should be all that matters.

    STL
    Last edited by SingleTrackLovr; 08-22-2007 at 11:06 AM.

  13. #13
    Your retarded
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    I don't think this topic has ever come up before.
    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  14. #14
    Mythical Creature
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackLovr
    That is kinda what I thought. No real rule...

    If an uphill rider complained to a park ranger or whatever trail official was present. The official would have no rule to enforce. So we are back to "Right of Weight" if you think the downhiller is going to clobber you, you better move. Being dead right is never a good position.

    STL
    True - just like there's no real specific rule about accidental stick-in-the-spokes episodes for overtly aggro/ididotic riders...

    Go ahead - make me move.

    neener neener neener.

    Um - in case it's not patently clear, I'm kidding.

    Really though, what's your point? There's no federal "law" so go ahead and blaze away, scattering all the feeble uphill riders in your path? There's a whole lot more holding a society together than freakin' law...


    Though it'd be fun to see who ended up off-trail azz over head...


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  15. #15
    ..ouch
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonkedAgain
    Never the less, I wish it was the other way around. I hate stopping when I am enjoying a great, fast downhill cruise; I often appreciate the excuse to take a break on a long uphill grind. But, the precedent has been set, and I don't see any chance that my preference will ever prevail.
    EDIT - doh. now older and wiser. my previous post was dumb.
    Last edited by thump; 07-22-2015 at 08:01 AM.

  16. #16
    Mythical Creature
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump
    I'd agree.. from a trail preservation perspective it actually makes more sense for the uphill rider to stop. Making the downhill person have to brake to a stop (even without skidding) is still more wear on the trail than someone going up just putting a foot down. If I'm on a long climb and see someone ripping the downhill I'll usually stop and wave them by.. Maybe I'd feel differently if I was a diehard spandex "loves the climb" roadie convert, but I usually don't mind a quick break.
    Oh geez, here we go.... all folks that know how to ride a bike UP and downhill must be roadie convert spandex wanker leg shaving sissies....

    "rippin' downhill".... like in yer baggies, bro - after some bong hits and brews in the p-lot with yer tunes blasting? See - Generalizations suck and make one sound less than bright....

    But as Nickle noted - it's all been said and done and beaten to death before....

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  17. #17
    Just F##king Ride!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kchri
    If everyone would just start riding double track this would not be an issue.
    (Load of BS start)
    We can also ride on paved bike paths that are completely flat. then it will be a non-issue.

    single track trails should only be used by hikers any way, they are the only ones that don't damage the trail.
    (load of BS end)

    why is this even being discussed. It is for overall safety that we are not slamming into each other on the trail at mock speeds and getting people killed.

    I would love to shove a stick in the front wheel of some asshat that is giving cyclist a bad name.

    We all ride public trails. that is why we don't have to pay.

    so claiming there is no rule. Is the same as saying that a horse rider does not have to clean up after the horse. Which I think is a bigger deal then who has the right of way up or down.

  18. #18
    ..ouch
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenzx
    "rippin' downhill".... like in yer baggies, bro - after some bong hits and brews in the p-lot with yer tunes blasting? See - Generalizations suck and make one sound less than bright....
    Alright, alright.. I deserved that one. But the comment about the additional trail wear still stands.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
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    .... I try to yield whatever my position is, depending on if there is a turnout on the trail. MK and KABA's got it right. Just assess the situation and dont COMPLAIN about it... geezo... its like what... 2 seconds! If its the next day and still bothering you.. see a therapist.
    Ok, so maybe it is an addiction.
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  20. #20
    lurkio
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    Not again!!!!!
    We went, earth, sky, earth sky, earth skyambulance

  21. #21
    enlightened.
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    I just push people out of my way. Quick and effective. Leaves a lasting impression.

  22. #22
    Mutha Flippin'
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    First off, I always respect other trail-users, and try to warn and accommodate them within reason. But for fun, here are some arguments I can think of from the two sides:

    DH: The encounter lasts longer if the DHer has to stop and wait for the uphill rider to pass.
    UH: It's more effort for me to get going again than for you.
    DH: DH is about the groove. Don't mess with my groove.
    UH: I get satisfaction from cleaning the trail, so stopping for you messes with my groove.
    DH: Physics says it's easier to brake the slower you are going, so you brake.
    UH: I have the right of way.
    DH and UH: blah blah blah

    Personally, I think the people who ride up or down like they are in a race and get all freaked out when they're inconvenienced with yielding need to chill the flip out. I'd love to bomb the ****e but the fact is- it's a two way trail, so deal with it.
    Don't let yesterday use up too much of today.

  23. #23
    ColoradoCoolBreeze
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenzx
    But as Nickle noted - it's all been said and done and beaten to death before....
    Not all posters have been a member of mtbr since 2003-04 like you two.
    It maybe an old topic for you, its not to me.

    With the exception of a few personnel attacks I think the answers, opinions, and discussion posted to my question have been great.

    If you find this topic old or boring, why post? why even open my thread?

    peace,
    STL

  24. #24
    Mythical Creature
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackLovr
    Not all posters have been a member of mtbr since 2003-04 like you two.
    It maybe an old topic for you, its not to me.
    First off, I've been kickin around here for much longer than THAT! pffft. Late 2003 is when they last changed mtbr.com forum format and server(s) I think.... so us old pharts appear to have been members since only then. There was life even before THAT! Not that I had one - or have one now, for that matter...

    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackLovr
    With the exception of a few personnel attacks I think the answers, opinions, and discussion posted to my question have been great.
    I haven't read any personal attacks here, yet - it's all good. I'd watch out for athalliah though!

    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackLovr
    If you find this topic old or boring, why post? why even open my thread?
    Old topic? yes. Means there's been a LOT of dialogue already. Boring? No! Us guardians of trail user righteousness have to keep fighting the fight, or risk having a few proverbial bad apples fahk it up for everyone else... you know, that ed-u-macate the young-ins and newbies thing and all.

    I simply speak from experience. Rippin' high speed descents ought to take place only where you're 100% sure you're 'clear', in that if someone - on a bike or horse or on foot - approaches from below, you can stop without skiding, and without crashing and yield the trail.

    IF they happen to be generous and nice enough to yield to you, you know what? It's still worth slowing down and saying "thanks". And if you absolutely must hammer a descent with no interuptions, come out and race, or ride at designated DH trails.
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  25. #25
    Mythical Creature
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    Speaking of mentorship, that crazy 'search' function is nifty!

    LINK to results page of mtbr.com search for "trail etiquette"... the SoCal one near the top is especially humorous!
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  26. #26
    That's what she said
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    Old topic? yes. Means there's been a LOT of dialogue already. Boring? No! Us guardians of trail user righteousness have to keep fighting the fight, or risk having a few proverbial bad apples fahk it up for everyone else... you know, that ed-u-macate the young-ins and newbies thing and all.

    I simply speak from experience. Rippin' high speed descents ought to take place only where you're 100% sure you're 'clear', in that if someone - on a bike or horse or on foot - approaches from below, you can stop without skiding, and without crashing and yield the trail.

    IF they happen to be generous and nice enough to yield to you, you know what? It's still worth slowing down and saying "thanks". And if you absolutely must hammer a descent with no interuptions, come out and race, or ride at designated DH trails.[/QUOTE]


    Well said.

  27. #27
    Ride 2 Work, Work 2 Ride!
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    I stop going uphill due to the fact that I love running fast downhill and know that others do too. Plus I can always use the break when climbing.
    "Don't give up, Never give up!"

  28. #28
    Inflexable...
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenzx


    I simply speak from experience. Rippin' high speed descents ought to take place only where you're 100% sure you're 'clear', in that if someone - on a bike or horse or on foot - approaches from below, you can stop without skiding, and without crashing and yield the trail.

    I

    Ya, this always happens...
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  29. #29
    ColoradoCoolBreeze
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    I couldn't agree more.
    High speed descents belong at the ski resorts. Not on public land.

    STL

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackLovr
    High speed descents belong at the ski resorts. Not on public land.
    Huh? Can you justify that opinion? I can just hear all the guys lined up to ride Jones Park/Sandy Wash/Porcupine/Zippety/where ever gasping over that.

    IMO, just ride at whatever speed the conditions allow. If there is a trail that is a favorite for downhillers, and there is an alternate way to get to the top, ride the alternate way and let the downhillers have their fun. If you are riding up and some dh'er acts like they own the trail b!tch at them (in the 1.5 seconds they are in hearing range). Above all, be flexible and don't insist on ruining other people's fun just because it is your right.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenzx
    ....ed-u-macate ....
    What the...?

    Don't be dragging me into this imbroglio G, I've NEVER macated, never ever! And I always ride uphill, in both directions. So give way, scatter yourselves as you bomb the downhills and I split the echelon with my relentless uphill struggles.

    I'll shut up now. Athallia, you now have the floor again

    Ed

  32. #32
    Mythical Creature
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    ...I always ride uphill, in both directions.
    YOU and me both, buddy!
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonkedAgain
    IMO, just ride at whatever speed the conditions allow.
    That sort of sums it up... but wait!

    Quote Originally Posted by BonkedAgain
    Above all, be flexible and don't insist on ruining other people's fun just because it is your right.
    Fun. That's a tricky one, that fun-thing. Fun is all in the eye of the beholder - so let's just stick to common sense and etiquette. Fun, for me not only is rippin' that descent (r, or climbing it like Ed!), but spending 2, 3, sometimes 4 hours climbing 5k - 6k feet to get there.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackLovr
    I couldn't agree more.
    High speed descents belong at the ski resorts. Not on public land.
    I think it's worth clarifying there's a large difference between "high speed" and "out of control". A noob running old v-brakes on a hardtail might be out of control doing 10mph down a rocky trail. I like to hit the downhills with some nice speed, but I'm looking well down the trail and have never had issue coming to a nice smooth stop using the 2.5 tires and 8 inch rotors on my Uzzi.. I pedal all 38 lbs of that bike up and around the trail b/c I want to enjoy any technical feature or DH that I can. There isn't a one-true-speed-limit, it's about riding within your limits and keeping it safe. If you can't do that at high-speed then keep your fingers on those levers.

  35. #35
    Inflexable...
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackLovr
    I couldn't agree more.
    High speed descents belong at the ski resorts. Not on public land.

    STL
    Ha ha ha ha ha ha....

    There are so many more people at the ski resort than there are on the bike trails.
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  36. #36
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    A few years ago there was a group of really angry hikers hiding in the weeds next to the trail in Pineridge open space waiting for bikers to come by so they could jump out in front of them and get hit - then complain to the city trails department that the bikers were not yielding trail. Seemed like a good way to get bikers banned from what they wanted to be hiking only trails. We are starting to sound a lot like them. So keep this argument going and we'll end up with a hell of a lot more hiker only trails (read - possible closure at Monarch Crest trail). How about we all yield to everybody (except rattlesnakes - push them off the trail with a big stick) and focus on keeping all trails open both ways for all bikes.

  37. #37
    lurkio
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    oh God!!!
    We went, earth, sky, earth sky, earth skyambulance

  38. #38
    enlightened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs

    I'll shut up now. Athallia, you now have the floor again
    That's a good idea because I was about to shove you off of it

  39. #39
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    I'll yield to a downhill rider

    I say a downhill rider, I don't encounter downhillers much. Sometimes I am suffering and like a break. When I'm in a groove climbing hard I don't like to yield and expect someone riding downhill to see, appreciate it & yield. Mostly its not a problem as my rides are not the shuttle types anyway.

  40. #40
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    ok, letting an uphill rider go first is just right, and everybody should do it, but when i let a dude go, i usually never hear "thank you" or "have a nice ride/day", that's also a common courtesy, but i see lot of xc dude's have a problem lately with that. Instead of "thank you" i can hear grawwling/stupid comments, or nothing, and that does not help the whole dh/xc situation. Common on guys if a guy going downhill yelds you, what hurts to say something nice, so the person going downhill fells like he did a good thing letting you go ;/

    I think it is an overall rule of courtesy but not one that is strict. Whenever two chaps meet on a trail both should simply assess for who it is easier to get-going again after stopping/making room. In many cases this is the one coming down - but not always.
    DH: The encounter lasts longer if the DHer has to stop and wait for the uphill rider to pass.
    UH: It's more effort for me to get going again than for you.
    DH: DH is about the groove. Don't mess with my groove.
    UH: I get satisfaction from cleaning the trail, so stopping for you messes with my groove.
    DH: Physics says it's easier to brake the slower you are going, so you brake.
    UH: I have the right of way.
    DH and UH: blah blah blah
    Exactly, because everybody is the "most important" person on the trail and he deserves everything ;p

    There isn't a one-true-speed-limit, it's about riding within your limits and keeping it safe. If you can't do that at high-speed then keep your fingers on those levers.
    Hell ya, everybody comes out to ride trails for one reason, to have fun. As somebody said, a person can go fast and still be in control, and know what to do in certain situations


    How about we will show more respect to everybody, have more trust in other riders, and just be nice to other users of the trail, because the trails are multi-use, and they are build from every bodies money. But probably this will never happen

    My .02 cents

    Peace

  41. #41
    icanseeformiles(andmiles)
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    Well, it's not like this topic has been done before.

    In Colorado, it all goes back to state laws for driving on the roads. Colorado law states that the downhill driver always yields to the uphill driver (usually applied under slippery conditions and single-lane jeep trails). It used to be one of the questions always asked on the written DL test.
    Quote Originally Posted by MB1
    To differentiate riders by the type of surface frequented is IMO the height of foolishness.

  42. #42
    ColoradoCoolBreeze
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump
    I think it's worth clarifying there's a large difference between "high speed" and "out of control". A noob running old v-brakes on a hardtail might be out of control doing 10mph down a rocky trail. I like to hit the downhills with some nice speed, but I'm looking well down the trail and have never had issue coming to a nice smooth stop using the 2.5 tires and 8 inch rotors on my Uzzi.. I pedal all 38 lbs of that bike up and around the trail b/c I want to enjoy any technical feature or DH that I can. There isn't a one-true-speed-limit, it's about riding within your limits and keeping it safe. If you can't do that at high-speed then keep your fingers on those levers.
    That's what I ment, thank you thump.

    To the sages of mbtr (guardians of trail user righteousness) sorry if this topic opens an old wound or is old hat for you. There are many new members (myself included) here that might not know the issues we all face.

    Before someone posts the usual "why don't you use the search" well, this is a forum for active discussion and maybe I don't really care about what the conclusion was in 2004.

    Great Discussion, thanks everyone for joining in. As a newbie to mtbr I am a more informed and considerate rider thanks to this website.

    STL
    Last edited by SingleTrackLovr; 08-23-2007 at 06:07 AM.

  43. #43
    zrm
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    A lot of it comes from the jeep trail rules of the road, downhill yields to uphill because it can be so difficult to get going again. Of course one size doesn't always fit all in that situation; it might be easier for the uphill driver to back down to that wide spot 50 feet below than for the downhill driver to back up the road 100 yards to a pull out.
    In mountain biking I've always yielded to the climber, While it might be easier to stop when going uphill as opposed to downhill, it's much harder to [I]get going again[I] when climbing, than it is to resume your downhill ride. Not only do you loose your momentum, you loose your breathing rhythm, etc. All you have to do to regain your downhill momentum is take your fingers off the brake. I guess that if the climb is nothing but a detestable necessity to be avoided when possible your priorities will be to maintain your DH “flow and “adrenaline rush”. There’ nothing inherently wrong with that, but when you’re sharing a single track trail with various users going in various directions, there are going to be problems.
    IMO, one of the negative impacts of big bikes, shuttling, and general DH/FR style of riding is that it puts so much more emphasis on the downhill experience than the overall ride/loop/cycling experience of traditional XC riding. IMO when one puts such a disproportionate emphasis on haulin' ass on a 35 lb. + bike with 6"+ of suspension on trails that have two way traffic of different users, it's going to lead to conflicts with the other folks you share the trail with. If you are going so fast that you increase your impact on the trail to yield to another user, you need to slow down.
    Thankfully, there is not a lot of trails that are suitable for shuttlers where I live. The DH crowd hangs at Keystone or a few DH only trails, although I did see a couple full on Body armor, full face w/ goggles, big bike guys on the blue river trail about a month or so. A little overkill for what is not a technical or steep trail IMO, I can go 30mph on my weeny 4" suspension XC bike. Only one of the three (the last in line) yielded to me or slowed down. (I was trail running) and I had to jump off the trail to avoid getting run over. Usually though, that’s not the case in Summit Co, most folks yield to the climber, to hikers and horses, most climbers say “thanks” and for the most part, we get along.

  44. #44
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    I'll bite.

    The way it *should* work is that whomever has an easier time of stopping and starting should be the one to stop. So if one person has started a technical section, he or she should keep going and the other person should stop and watch. Unfortunately this is a rather vague rule and we need something else to fall back on when it isn't clear who should stop.

    Consider our possibilities: uphill rider has rights vs downhill rider has rights.

    If the downhill rider has right of way, then there is is no reason for them to slow down, is there? That means that if I'm climbing and I can't get my butt off the trail fast enough, we are going to crash. People going fast through blind corners will be scary, and guys that are listening to an ipod while grinding away will get hit for not being fast enough to jump out of the way.

    If the uphill rider has right of way, then the downhill rider is forced to stay in control (i.e. can stop for another rider or hiker) and crashes are generally avoided.

    The 'uphill rider has right of way' rule is less about starting and stopping than it is about not crashing into each other.

  45. #45
    formerly shabadu
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    Quote Originally Posted by derek14
    I'll bite.

    The way it *should* work is that whomever has an easier time of stopping and starting should be the one to stop. So if one person has started a technical section, he or she should keep going and the other person should stop and watch. Unfortunately this is a rather vague rule and we need something else to fall back on when it isn't clear who should stop.

    Consider our possibilities: uphill rider has rights vs downhill rider has rights.

    If the downhill rider has right of way, then there is is no reason for them to slow down, is there? That means that if I'm climbing and I can't get my butt off the trail fast enough, we are going to crash. People going fast through blind corners will be scary, and guys that are listening to an ipod while grinding away will get hit for not being fast enough to jump out of the way.

    If the uphill rider has right of way, then the downhill rider is forced to stay in control (i.e. can stop for another rider or hiker) and crashes are generally avoided.

    The 'uphill rider has right of way' rule is less about starting and stopping than it is about not crashing into each other.
    This is the most logical post in this thread. Gracias.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm
    IMO, one of the negative impacts of big bikes, shuttling, and general DH/FR style of riding is that it puts so much more emphasis on the downhill experience than the overall ride/loop/cycling experience of traditional XC riding. IMO when one puts such a disproportionate emphasis on haulin' ass on a 35 lb. + bike with 6"+ of suspension on trails that have two way traffic of different users, it's going to lead to conflicts with the other folks you share the trail with.

    Well said.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  47. #47
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    Plain and simple why this is a common courtesy. When you are climbing you need momentum and traction to keep going. If you have to stop you lose all of this. When you are going downhill it is just much easier to stop and get going again. This rule applies to ATV's and 4 Wheeling trails also.

  48. #48
    Your retarded
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    This circular argument sucks. My solution: bolt a javelin to the front of the bike and we'll see who has right of way then.

    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  49. #49
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    damn, i wonder if they pulled it out or left it for the lucky doctor to do it.

  50. #50
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    <embed src="http://www.familyguyfiles.com/videos/stewie_loader.swf?id=stewie-gets-glass-in-his-head" width="320" height="260"></embed>
    <br>Now Playing:
    <br><a title="stewie gets glass in his head video" href="http://www.familyguyfiles.com/stewie-gets-glass-in-his-head-video/">stewie gets glass in his head video</a>

    Reminds me of this

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