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  1. #1
    ColoradoCoolBreeze
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    Where does it say...Uphill has the right of way???



    Can some one give me a link to a Federal website stating "uphill mountain bikers have the right-a way over down hill"?

    I just spent 1 hour on google looking for something official and could not fine one website with this rule. I did find lots of Rules of the Trail:

    Sierra Club Conservation Policies
    Off Road Use of Bicycles
    I. POLICY
    Appendix E - Trail User Etiquette and Education
    1. In order to minimize conflicts with other trail users, bicyclists should know and use the established Rules of the Trail: - Ride on open trails only. - Leave no trace. - Control your bicycle. - Always yield trail. - Never scare animals. - Plan ahead.
    2. Bicyclists should know and follow applicable laws and regulations.
    3. Bicyclists yield trail to foot travelers, both animal and human. Yielding trail means: slow down, be prepared to stop; establish communication; dismount when appropriate; and pass safely.
    =======
    MBA Mountain Bike Rules of the Trail (IMBA)
    From Kevin Tisue,
    Your Guide to Mountain Biking.
    The following is the official list of mountain biking rules of the trail from IMBA, otherwise known as the International Mountain Bicycling Association.
    These mountain bike rules are designed to minimize our impact on our environment as well as promote friendly relationships between all trail users by creating a safe environment for us all. By following these rules we help ensure our access to trails in our local communities will continue and hopefully grow.
    Every mountain biker should know and live by these mountain biking rules from IMBA:
    Rules of the Trail
    The way we ride today shapes mountain bike trail access tomorrow. Do your part to preserve and enhance our sport's access and image by observing the following rules of the trail, formulated by IMBA, the International Mountain Bicycling Association. These rules are recognized around the world as the standard code of conduct for mountain bikers. IMBA's mission is to promote mountain bicycling that is environmentally sound and socially responsible.
    1. Ride On Open Trails Only.
    Respect trail and road closures - ask if uncertain; avoid trespassing on private land; obtain permits or other authorization as may be required. Federal and state Wilderness areas are closed to cycling. The way you ride will influence trail management decisions and policies.
    2. Leave No Trace.
    Be sensitive to the dirt beneath you. Recognize different types of soils and trail construction; practice low-impact cycling. Wet and muddy trails are more vulnerable to damage. When the trailbed is soft, consider other riding options. This also means staying on existing trails and not creating new ones. Don't cut switchbacks. Be sure to pack out at least as much as you pack in.
    3. Control Your Bicycle!
    Inattention for even a second can cause problems. Obey all bicycle speed regulations and recommendations.
    4. Always Yield Trail.
    Let your fellow trail users know you're coming. A friendly greeting or bell is considerate and works well; don't startle others. Show your respect when passing by slowing to a walking pace or even stopping. Anticipate other trail users around corners or in blind spots. Yielding means slow down, establish communication, be prepared to stop if necessary and pass safely.
    5. Never Scare Animals.
    All animals are startled by an unannounced approach, a sudden movement, or a loud noise. This can be dangerous for you, others, and the animals. Give animals extra room and time to adjust to you. When passing horses use special care and follow directions from the horseback riders - ask if uncertain. Running cattle and disturbing wildlife is a serious offense. Leave gates as you found them, or as marked.
    6. Plan Ahead.
    Know your equipment, your ability, and the area in which you are riding -- and prepare accordingly. Be self-sufficient at all times, keep your equipment in good repair, and carry necessary supplies for changes in weather or other conditions. A well-executed trip is a satisfaction to you and not a burden to others. Always wear a helmet and appropriate safety gear.
    Keep trails open by setting a good example of environmentally sound and socially responsible off-road cycling.
    ========
    The MMBA has adopted the International Mountain Biking Association's (IMBA) Rules of the Trail.
    ========

    So who is the "who said of the greatest magnitude" that states the uphill rider has the right-of-way?

    thanks
    STL

  2. #2
    cheeseburger in paradise
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    I don't think it's a rule. Just common sense courtesy. It's a courtesy that isn't specific to mountain biking, but has been adopted by mountain biking. Not sure where it all started, maybe with cars on steep narrow roads, or maybe even wagons for all I know.

  3. #3
    e-misanthrope
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    It's common courtesy - rule or not. I've been riding primarily DH lately, and I still get pissed when some douche fails to yield for climbers.

    Not flaming you - but it's a sad state of affairs when a person looks to rules and regulations to guide their behavior.
    Don't waive your rights with your flags.

  4. #4
    MK_
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    Just think about the effort required to resume riding when your going uphill vs downhill. And the physical effort of going uphill vs. downhill and your common sense ought to steer you in the direction of yielding to uphill traffic out of sheer courtesy.

    (This BTW ought to be respected by hikers, too. Since it takes no effort for them to step to the side for a brief moment while the uphill biker pedals past. Especially on tech sections. Hikers have in my experience showed the worst trail manners.)

    _MK
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    "No man goes before his time -- unless the boss leaves early."
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  5. #5
    Mythical Creature
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    It's bicycle community 101 - and has nadda to do with hiker/equestrian rules or Federal Law... Took me exactly 10 seconds to find the link, copy it, and paste it here.

    LINK

    For the attention defecit disorder types, I quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by IMBA
    "...Be familiar with who has the right of way while on the trail. For instance, a rider going uphill has the right of way, and a rider coming downhill must yield. Hikers and equestrians have the right of way over any cyclist. ..."
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  6. #6
    mtbr member
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    I think it is an overall rule of courtesy but not one that is strict. Whenever two chaps meet on a trail both should simply assess for who it is easier to get-going again after stopping/making room. In many cases this is the one coming down - but not allways.

    As an example think of a technical section. I would always stop for the one already in there. Regardless if she/he climbs or decents.

    No excuses in my mind for anybody going too fast to stop. Bombing DH on public trails, racing into blind corners is simply not on. It is gross neglect, borders on criminal behavior and no responsible biker does that.

  7. #7
    Inflexable...
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    If everyone would just start riding double track this would not be an issue.


    IMBA creates rules that are not enforcable but are designed to appeal to riders with common sense...
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  8. #8
    Bad Case of the Mondays
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_
    Just think about the effort required to resume riding when your going uphill vs downhill. And the physical effort of going uphill vs. downhill and your common sense ought to steer you in the direction of yielding to uphill traffic out of sheer courtesy.
    Well said.

  9. #9
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    Are you talking about horses or bikers? Only "asshats" hold the uphill line, eh? Seems like there may be more asshats out there than you guessed.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  10. #10
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    Never the less, I wish it was the other way around. I hate stopping when I am enjoying a great, fast downhill cruise; I often appreciate the excuse to take a break on a long uphill grind. But, the precedent has been set, and I don't see any chance that my preference will ever prevail.

  11. #11
    Mythical Creature
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonkedAgain
    Never the less, I wish it was the other way around. I hate stopping when I am enjoying a great, fast downhill cruise; I often appreciate the excuse to take a break on a long uphill grind. But, the precedent has been set, and I don't see any chance that my preference will ever prevail.
    Um, unless you go ride DH on DH trails! Der. Get the best of both worlds - lifts to help you get UP, and no one in the way on the way down...

    Or - go live in a place that ain't so clogged up with pesky people preventing your preference from prevailing!



    Christ almighty, it does indeed suck to have to share... AND be courteous!
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  12. #12
    ColoradoCoolBreeze
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenzx
    It's bicycle community 101 - and has nadda to do with hiker/equestrian rules or Federal Law... Took me exactly 10 seconds to find the link, copy it, and paste it here.

    LINK

    For the attention defecit disorder types, I quote:
    That is kinda what I thought. No real rule...

    If an uphill rider complained to a park ranger or whatever trail official was present. The official would have no rule to enforce. So we are back to "Right of Weight" if you think the downhiller is going to clobber you, you better move. Being dead right is never a good position.

    I for one like IMBA's rule #4 specifically the last sentence.
    "4. Always Yield Trail.
    Let your fellow trail users know you're coming. A friendly greeting or bell is considerate and works well; don't startle others. Show your respect when passing by slowing to a walking pace or even stopping. Anticipate other trail users around corners or in blind spots. Yielding means slow down, establish communication, be prepared to stop if necessary and pass safely. "

    This makes more sense (to me) for bikers going up or down. Every case/incounter is going to be different. Both riders need to get by safely and that should be all that matters.

    STL
    Last edited by SingleTrackLovr; 08-22-2007 at 11:06 AM.

  13. #13
    Your retarded
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    I don't think this topic has ever come up before.
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  14. #14
    Mythical Creature
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackLovr
    That is kinda what I thought. No real rule...

    If an uphill rider complained to a park ranger or whatever trail official was present. The official would have no rule to enforce. So we are back to "Right of Weight" if you think the downhiller is going to clobber you, you better move. Being dead right is never a good position.

    STL
    True - just like there's no real specific rule about accidental stick-in-the-spokes episodes for overtly aggro/ididotic riders...

    Go ahead - make me move.

    neener neener neener.

    Um - in case it's not patently clear, I'm kidding.

    Really though, what's your point? There's no federal "law" so go ahead and blaze away, scattering all the feeble uphill riders in your path? There's a whole lot more holding a society together than freakin' law...


    [SIZE=1]Though it'd be fun to see who ended up off-trail azz over head...


    [/SIZE]
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  15. #15
    ..ouch
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonkedAgain
    Never the less, I wish it was the other way around. I hate stopping when I am enjoying a great, fast downhill cruise; I often appreciate the excuse to take a break on a long uphill grind. But, the precedent has been set, and I don't see any chance that my preference will ever prevail.
    I'd agree.. from a trail preservation perspective it actually makes more sense for the uphill rider to stop. Making the downhill person have to brake to a stop (even without skidding) is still more wear on the trail than someone going up just putting a foot down. If I'm on a long climb and see someone ripping the downhill I'll usually stop and wave them by.. Maybe I'd feel differently if I was a diehard spandex "loves the climb" roadie convert, but I usually don't mind a quick break.

  16. #16
    Mythical Creature
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump
    I'd agree.. from a trail preservation perspective it actually makes more sense for the uphill rider to stop. Making the downhill person have to brake to a stop (even without skidding) is still more wear on the trail than someone going up just putting a foot down. If I'm on a long climb and see someone ripping the downhill I'll usually stop and wave them by.. Maybe I'd feel differently if I was a diehard spandex "loves the climb" roadie convert, but I usually don't mind a quick break.
    Oh geez, here we go.... all folks that know how to ride a bike UP and downhill must be roadie convert spandex wanker leg shaving sissies....

    "rippin' downhill".... like in yer baggies, bro - after some bong hits and brews in the p-lot with yer tunes blasting? See - Generalizations suck and make one sound less than bright....

    But as Nickle noted - it's all been said and done and beaten to death before....

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  17. #17
    Just F##king Ride!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kchri
    If everyone would just start riding double track this would not be an issue.
    (Load of BS start)
    We can also ride on paved bike paths that are completely flat. then it will be a non-issue.

    single track trails should only be used by hikers any way, they are the only ones that don't damage the trail.
    (load of BS end)

    why is this even being discussed. It is for overall safety that we are not slamming into each other on the trail at mock speeds and getting people killed.

    I would love to shove a stick in the front wheel of some asshat that is giving cyclist a bad name.

    We all ride public trails. that is why we don't have to pay.

    so claiming there is no rule. Is the same as saying that a horse rider does not have to clean up after the horse. Which I think is a bigger deal then who has the right of way up or down.

  18. #18
    ..ouch
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenzx
    "rippin' downhill".... like in yer baggies, bro - after some bong hits and brews in the p-lot with yer tunes blasting? See - Generalizations suck and make one sound less than bright....
    Alright, alright.. I deserved that one. But the comment about the additional trail wear still stands.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
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    .... I try to yield whatever my position is, depending on if there is a turnout on the trail. MK and KABA's got it right. Just assess the situation and dont COMPLAIN about it... geezo... its like what... 2 seconds! If its the next day and still bothering you.. see a therapist.
    Ok, so maybe it is an addiction.
    The Dire Riders Consortium

  20. #20
    lurkio
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    Not again!!!!!
    We went, earth, sky, earth sky, earth skyambulance

  21. #21
    enlightened.
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    I just push people out of my way. Quick and effective. Leaves a lasting impression.

  22. #22
    Mutha Flippin'
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    First off, I always respect other trail-users, and try to warn and accommodate them within reason. But for fun, here are some arguments I can think of from the two sides:

    DH: The encounter lasts longer if the DHer has to stop and wait for the uphill rider to pass.
    UH: It's more effort for me to get going again than for you.
    DH: DH is about the groove. Don't mess with my groove.
    UH: I get satisfaction from cleaning the trail, so stopping for you messes with my groove.
    DH: Physics says it's easier to brake the slower you are going, so you brake.
    UH: I have the right of way.
    DH and UH: blah blah blah

    Personally, I think the people who ride up or down like they are in a race and get all freaked out when they're inconvenienced with yielding need to chill the flip out. I'd love to bomb the shite but the fact is- it's a two way trail, so deal with it.
    Don't let yesterday use up too much of today.

  23. #23
    ColoradoCoolBreeze
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenzx
    But as Nickle noted - it's all been said and done and beaten to death before....
    Not all posters have been a member of mtbr since 2003-04 like you two.
    It maybe an old topic for you, its not to me.

    With the exception of a few personnel attacks I think the answers, opinions, and discussion posted to my question have been great.

    If you find this topic old or boring, why post? why even open my thread?

    peace,
    STL

  24. #24
    Mythical Creature
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackLovr
    Not all posters have been a member of mtbr since 2003-04 like you two.
    It maybe an old topic for you, its not to me.
    First off, I've been kickin around here for much longer than THAT! pffft. Late 2003 is when they last changed mtbr.com forum format and server(s) I think.... so us old pharts appear to have been members since only then. There was life even before THAT! Not that I had one - or have one now, for that matter...

    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackLovr
    With the exception of a few personnel attacks I think the answers, opinions, and discussion posted to my question have been great.
    I haven't read any personal attacks here, yet - it's all good. I'd watch out for athalliah though!

    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackLovr
    If you find this topic old or boring, why post? why even open my thread?
    Old topic? yes. Means there's been a LOT of dialogue already. Boring? No! Us guardians of trail user righteousness have to keep fighting the fight, or risk having a few proverbial bad apples fahk it up for everyone else... you know, that ed-u-macate the young-ins and newbies thing and all.

    I simply speak from experience. Rippin' high speed descents ought to take place only where you're 100% sure you're 'clear', in that if someone - on a bike or horse or on foot - approaches from below, you can stop without skiding, and without crashing and yield the trail.

    IF they happen to be generous and nice enough to yield to you, you know what? It's still worth slowing down and saying "thanks". And if you absolutely must hammer a descent with no interuptions, come out and race, or ride at designated DH trails.
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  25. #25
    Mythical Creature
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    Speaking of mentorship, that crazy 'search' function is nifty!

    LINK to results page of mtbr.com search for "trail etiquette"... the SoCal one near the top is especially humorous!
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