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  1. #1
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    Upset West Mag Travesty....

    I'm so pissed! Yesterday I finally got a chance to revisit West Mag trails on the south end of Nederland for the first time since access restrictions were lifted. Having just rained the night before, 925 was severely rutted and exposed due to water erosion. Erosion due to clear cut. I have to tell you the clear cut that was done in the area was one of the most horrid examples I have yet to see in Colorado. Not even pre-beetle cuts near Breckenridge could ever compare. We're not talking tree thinning here, we're talking Hiroshima style clear cut. Not just whole swatches of trees, but forest floor, delicate fauna and ecosystem totally obliterated by what can only be construed as bulldozing. What about the wetlands in the area? Trashed. Not to mention that the trails, if they still exist, are trashed as well.
    As I rode through the whole area that was affected, I observed the trees on the other side of the private land fence. Yes, they were in dire need of thinning. There were choked dead trees standing among the thriving trees. Dead-fall in need of raking out, etc. None of that area on the other side of the private land fence would have needed clear cut. I saw no evidence of outright uncontrolled beetle kill.
    I want to know where Boulder Mountainbike Alliance (BMA) stood in all of this? What ecosystem studies were done prior? What idiot or set of idiots allowed this happen in the first place? What happened to all the usable timber? Was it sold to be reincorporated in the USFS future attempts to restore the area itself? As far as I'm concerned West Mag belongs to all of us. Our taxes pay USFS to maintain and protect OUR forests. It is my honest opinion they failed to do that and BMA, for all their good intentions, failed to stop them.
    I want all users of forest lands, and not just mountain bikers, to know that the forest belongs to us. The USFS or USDA are paid by us to protect and maintain OUR forests. The Boulder Mountainbike Alliance should not stand for this no matter where it is, Boulder or otherwise. Once something like this is allowed to happen, sure enough it's bound to happen again. Maybe your favorite trails are next....
    Peace out and stay cool!

  2. #2
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    Not to say the FS did the best job implementing their fuel reduction strategy or that it was good for the trail (it wasn't)...but there was was a lot of information on this prior to implementation and plenty of time and opportunities to comment.

    Big Picture Description published in 2012
    Arapaho & Roosevelt National Forests Pawnee National Grassland - News & Events

    Map of Proposed Fuel Treatments including "Cutting Areas" aka Clear Cuts
    https://fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOC...rdb5355340.pdf

    The Environmental Assessment that covers this work from 2009
    USDA Forest Service - Boulder Ranger District NEPA Projects - Lump Gulch Fuel Treatment Project
    * BTW Boulder Mountain Bike Alliance is listed as part of the working group for the EA

    Although they don't use the words "clear cut", they pretty much said it "[t]reating these parcels will create a large visible change on the landscape since same-aged lodgepole trees must be cut in groups instead of thinned. Thinning in lodgepole dominated forest results in trees extremely susceptible to blow-down." Although the term "clear cut" has a lot a negative connotations these days it is probably the management technique most similar to intense wildfire, which usually initiates lodgepole stand development, and is a widely accepted management technique to deal with MPB affected stands.

    Some reading on the ecology of lodgepole pine...
    Species: Pinus contorta var. latifolia

    My point here is mainly to inform the way the FS and other federal agencies make these kinds of decisions. There was active participation earlier this year on a proposed trail project that affects bike access to part of the Colorado Trail. Many informed comments were submitted by MTBR members and the result was a decision that included bike use on the trail. If you care about your forest you should be watching this Arapaho & Roosevelt National Forests Pawnee National Grassland - Alerts & Notices to see how projects on public lands might affect your use of them. It is an incredibly transparent process that requires public input.

  3. #3
    Agent of tang
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    I haven't biked in the area that the OP mentions, but honestly, I have actually been fairly impressed with the logging from what I have seen (mostly the western end of the affected area). Not saying I wanted the cutting, but I think they did a fairly good job, and assuming they get rid of the giant slash piles, the place will look pretty damn good in just a few years.

  4. #4
    zrm
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    Quote Originally Posted by bittles View Post
    I'm so pissed! ...... blah blah blah........ Maybe your favorite trails are next....
    Now that's one of the best rants I've heard in a long time. All the requisite indignant outrage and none of the informed observation and/or opinion.

    Sorry man, but you need to take some time and educate yourself how actions on federal land are planned and implemented and how the public can comment.. If you pay attention and put in a little bit of work you can in the least be heard and have the process and reasoning explained to you and your comments, if they're reasoned and coherent might even make at least a little bit of difference.

    Ranting on the interwebz does very little.

    Anyway, the forest will regenerate. There will be many stages that it will go through that are actually interesting to watch if you have the long term patience and vision to see it.

  5. #5
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    I'm actually gonna agree with srm,

    but your a whinny little you know what

    come on back in a year or two and the crime your trying to describe will be a great place
    there are places in summit that have been obliterated, only to come back a year later and it's full of baby trees and tons and tons of flowers and all that crap that gets people excited about living in the mountains

    clear cutting, logging, and what not is the greatest thing to happen to colorado, too bad all the sierra club card carry liberal trash has been against logging for all these years has had their way and that's why we have big azz fires and the pine bettles

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripper roo View Post
    come on back in a year or two and the crime your trying to describe will be a great place
    Except the Drainbows and their trash will still be there...

    pics from another thread:



    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  7. #7
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    The FS is currently accepting input on their trails plan (which I think is basically awesome...btw). Go ahead, get involved.

    Arapaho & Roosevelt National Forests Pawnee National Grassland - News & Events

  8. #8
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    Please cut down our forests and ruin our trails!! Why are some sheep so eager to let the forest circus be their boss?? West mag didnt need clear cutting anymore that any other area along the front range. If you think it was an accident that west mag was chosen you're mistaken. It was chosen to send a message that they are in charge around here. Why will it be any different this time?? Their goal is to map and control all BoCo trails and forests. Will we all just sit by and watch them destroy Sherwood also??

  9. #9
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by R steve View Post
    Please cut down our forests and ruin our trails!! Why are some sheep so eager to let the forest circus be their boss?? West mag didnt need clear cutting anymore that any other area along the front range. If you think it was an accident that west mag was chosen you're mistaken. It was chosen to send a message that they are in charge around here. Why will it be any different this time?? Their goal is to map and control all BoCo trails and forests. Will we all just sit by and watch them destroy Sherwood also??

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    That's not very nice Mr bacon.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by R steve View Post
    It was chosen to send a message that they are in charge around here.
    For reals dude? So like Forest Service Mafia?

    Will you soon have a strategically placed bloody ponderosa stump beneath your sheets?

  12. #12
    Agent of tang
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    Quote Originally Posted by R steve View Post
    Please cut down our forests and ruin our trails!! Why are some sheep so eager to let the forest circus be their boss?? West mag didnt need clear cutting anymore that any other area along the front range. If you think it was an accident that west mag was chosen you're mistaken. It was chosen to send a message that they are in charge around here. Why will it be any different this time?? Their goal is to map and control all BoCo trails and forests. Will we all just sit by and watch them destroy Sherwood also??
    West Mag was chosen because of its proximity to Ned, and the threat it posed to the concentration of homes there. And if yout think what happened in West Mag is "clear cutting", you haven't seen true clear cutting. They cut down wide swaths in West Mag, but left lots and lots of forest standing. Go check out a real clear cutting and be glad that didn't happen here. And here's a tip: the USFS and BCPOS are not the same organization.

    I now await another negative reputation point because I have the gall to say that all things considered, they did a good job and that it could have been a lot worse.

  13. #13
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    Glad this has been brought to our attention. Given the total lack of previous West Mag threads we may never have known otherwise.

  14. #14
    zrm
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    Otherwise I'd have never known.

    I'd say a lot of the people who post these threads ranting the horrible old FS and fuel reduction timber cuts are the same people who would post threads ranting about the horrible old FS and "tree huggers" should've "done something" to prevent a fire if one came though and took out a bunch of houses.

    Just goes to show you can't please everyone.

  15. #15
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    I knew this thread had legs.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  16. #16
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    Awesome thread! If you think what the fS did at West Mag looks bad, check out all the other thinning operations they've done in the few years prior. West Mag looks great compared to what they did on Taylor Mountain and Gold Ridge.

    As Bagwhan says, though, give it a couple years and it'll look great. Taylor and Gold Ridge are already rehabbing in great ways. The BRD fuels reduction plans have been around for years. Fortunately, they seem to be learning more with each run.
    Redstone Cyclery
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  17. #17
    zrm
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR View Post
    Except the Drainbows and their trash will still be there...

    pics from another thread:



    Not if you pick it up.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post
    Not if you pick it up.
    So when are you bringing up the 10 ton dumptruck? This is one small example of about 50 sites. USFS is too busy sawing trees and playing in Boulder politics to deal with even the most blatant on-the-ground violations.

    When you do bring that truck up, keep in mind the Drainbows are still here. Be on the lookout for the random attack from a mentally ill homeless dude for fvcking with his precious forest collection.

  19. #19
    zrm
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    So when are you bringing up the 10 ton dumptruck? This is one small example of about 50 sites. USFS is too busy sawing trees and playing in Boulder politics to deal with even the most blatant on-the-ground violations.

    When you do bring that truck up, keep in mind the Drainbows are still here. Be on the lookout for the random attack from a mentally ill homeless dude for fvcking with his precious forest collection.
    Not quite sure what you mean by "drainbows" but it looks like you're talking about squatters. We have some issues with that, that ranges from fairly classic homeless people, people with mental health issues, people who are fairly "normal" but are choosing to save on rent and camp out for a while. Some of them keep a fairly clean camp and some of them don't.
    Often they move on on their own accord and others the FS LEO or Sheriff will occasionally chase them out. Often trash and fire rings are left behind. Fortunately, there are a lot of folks here in Summit that care enough about the land that they will volunteer to clean up squatter camps, I've done it several times. It's not pleasant, but it beats doing nothing but complaining on the interwebz.

    I've seen lots of trashed campsites - almost anywhere it's easy to drive to will have them. Litter, tire tracks everywhere to the point that nothing grows, shot up trees or trees sawed up for firewood, multiple fire rings when one will do, etc. There are a lot of people, MTBers included who don't think much about respect for the land or stewardship when they're out in the woods. People like to blame all the problems on those "other people" and never me or my tribe. Take care of your own actions and do what you can make things better (like picking up litter whether it's yours or not), but ragging on the interwebz and perpetuating stereotypes and prejudices does nothing.

    PS: If you're talking about "rainbows" the rainbow people actually go through the event permitting process when they have their gatherings on Federal lands and have to post a bond for clean up, ecological damage, etc. Like the whole rainbow family bit or not, I've heard from some agency folks that for the most part they actually do a pretty good job of cleaning up after themselves.

  20. #20
    Almost Human
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post
    Not quite sure what you mean by "drainbows" but it looks like you're talking about squatters.
    Worse than squatters. They leave hazardous waste behind like coke-can meth labs.

    Urban Dictionary: drainbow


    I would just like to thank WKD for making me wonder what a "drainbow" was... because along the way I found out what a "drainal" is, and I don't think my life would have been complete without finding out this important sniglit of useless information.... of course it opens up a whole new realm of insults I can hurl at bad drivers on the way home. If i could give + rep I would....

  21. #21
    zrm
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    Worse than squatters. They leave hazardous waste behind like coke-can meth labs.

    Urban Dictionary: drainbow


    I would just like to thank WKD for making me wonder what a "drainbow" was... because along the way I found out what a "drainal" is, and I don't think my life would have been complete without finding out this important sniglit of useless information.... of course it opens up a whole new realm of insults I can hurl at bad drivers on the way home. If i could give + rep I would....
    Well consider me educated. I've never heard that term before and I figured it was some sort of reference to Rainbows or "dirty hippies". We're a little sheltered up here in Summit.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post
    Not quite sure what you mean by "drainbows".
    I'm talking about a forest half-full of bums and meth heads. This summer - 1 murder, 1 guy eviscerated from pelvis to throat, several other stabbings. I'm talking about a physical altercation with a guy that felt we were trespassing on his campsite, that he setup right on top of a trail. I'm talking about 100 hippies partying it up for a week, then leaving behind the tents, trash, everything.

    Appreciate the righteous sanctimony though. You want to become the weekly volunteer trash service for these folks then please be my guest.

  23. #23
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    Which agency could step in and root some of these squatters out, or is there a lack of manpower or everyone just passes the buck. Shame those forests are being used like that. Spent quite a bit of time up there in the 70's when it was really rocking, but don't remember the hippies doing that much damage to the area.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by brokefork View Post
    Which agency could step in and root some of these squatters out, or is there a lack of manpower or..
    ^ I believe it's this. I can't imagine that USFS is happy about it, but a full-time LEO ranger costs $$.. and I'd imagine they'd need to start with the craziness at Lefthand before they got around to WM. Other problem is that you can't stop the legal "camping" part as long as they move around.

    Although one could argue that the Ranger costs peanuts compared to the budget being spent on mitigation work.

  25. #25
    little mad riding hood
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    we rode the dots to re-root and the hobbits and back on Saturday (only rained on us a little) and I have to say the landscape is recovering swiftly. Ignoring the slash piles, which I'm told will disappear, the wildflowers up there are going to be epic in a year or two in those open meadows. There are already a bunch of flowers growing/blooming in the open areas.

    The trails themselves were in fantastic shape.

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