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  1. #1
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    Ut Vally Sundy the 28 Ride...

    I heard there was going to be a MTB ride tomorrow at Ut Valliy to 'protest' the running clubs buffication and rock removal. Unfortunately the (for profit) running club has buffed and sanitized the trail an awful lot, so they plan to kick the rocks back.

    I can't make it but many have asked me to post up ...so plan to be there... hold your ground and periodically take a break and do it..... and kick the rocks back onto the trail. You are also to remove obliterate any grafitti unnatural, ie manmade artifacts.

    MTB groups need to be more proactive in protecting out local trails! If they wanna run on buff trails they have miles of Santa Fe to run.
    Last edited by CSPRINGS; 10-28-2007 at 12:44 PM.
    C.SPRINGS

  2. #2
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    update....

    I just got a call from one of the girls and she ran the park this afternoon. She states it looks like they took a street sweepeer along the rocky trails and they are totally buff and devoid of rocks, particularly in the wider single track areas. From the parking/dog shite lot as one goes up the wide coleche trail to the right (West) all the movible boulders, baby heads, and everything has been removed--repeat...EVERYTHING. I saw the pictures and cant believe my eyes.

    The Sponsors of the run who are a For Profit Venture charging fees to run around the Springs complain the rockiness of Ut Valli wreaks havok on feet and legs...OH MY...LETS ALL CRY NOW - GO RUN ELSEWHERE.

    So they have over the last couple weeks handpicked all the small rocks and larger ones and broomed the trails. In pursuit of a profitable run they DEGRADE the park?

    This means the erosion will be even greater than normal. To all of you who will ride tomorrow I thank you, if we inconvienence the Run the sponsors will eventually go elsewhere.

    LD
    Last edited by CSPRINGS; 10-28-2007 at 12:46 PM.
    C.SPRINGS

  3. #3
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    I think I broke my finger at Mt Herman yesterday. otherwise I'd be over there putting all the rocks back while riding...but no Sunday ride for me this week.

    Who sponsored this event and did all the neutering of the trail? Also, do you know what time the race is at? I may just go over there even if I don't ride.

  4. #4
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    Finger...ouch...bad, Trail Sanitization...bad

    Sorry to hear of the broken bit...get well soon! If your middle finger works perhaps you can put that one to good use?

    Been working all morning...I am sure it is mid day. I spoke to another regular rider and he said they have been buffing it in bits over the last several weeks, and added it looks terrible like it has been swept clean after they rode a couple laps round the park.

    The running company may have procured a permit to use the park, but that permit does not allow/include trail degradation. It is so sad, they want a natural place to run, then they degrade it if its naturalness exceds their market for profiteering. Maybe next year the MTB folks will put themselves to good use and make a physical presence.

    Oh they are afraid of too many sprained ankles will reduce fee paying participants next year...BLECHHHH! Many of cinder trails to run all over the place.
    C.SPRINGS

  5. #5
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    i had noticed that some of the trails there were looking pretty clean. just saw a bunch of runners there on my way home from church, but i couldn't tell if it had not yet started or was already over. its a shame they feel the need to groom the trails...maybe they should find somewhere else to run if its too rough. At least they can't get rid of the sandstone! My wife and I are going to take the dog over there in a bit.

    Unfortunately, it is my middle finger. But since its in a splint it makes giving the finger pretty easy. typing sucks though.
    Last edited by ryguy79; 10-29-2007 at 08:13 PM.

  6. #6
    Your retarded
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    El-Oh-El. Classic CSPRINGS. Now where'd I put my torch?
    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  7. #7
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    Road from 1:00 – 3:00 and didn’t see many runners until I left and then there was a bunch of little kids running; mostly on the front side of the park. There are a bunch of white arrows now on the trails…Nice to look at Wonder if there contract lets them paint arrows all over the natural trails.

  8. #8
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    Just think of the white arrows as obstacles...


    Everyone should just be quiet about UTE. No need to draw attention. Especially BECAUSE of mountain bikers...
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  9. #9
    Biker Beau
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    Just wondering...

    If a running club and/or group can get such high levels of participation to "fix" the nice trails in Ute for their own purposes...can it be possible for a like-minded group of mtn bikers to band together to "fix" the obvious issues the trails have for and most importantly because of us?

    Living close to the park, I'm constantly bummed by how badly the trails degrade over the Summer months and I'd rather not get into the trivial battles between us and them.

    I'd like to see more mtn bikers out working on improving the trail conditions for all users...and especially to make them sweeter for the bikes!

    I'm one of them...and willing to work

    Allen

  10. #10
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    Willing to work at Ute too.

  11. #11
    Biker Beau
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    Discussion/planning meeting anyone?

    While we have this absolutely beautiful late-October weather, I'd like to offer up my house for a planning meeting on what can be/should be done about Ute.

    I've worked a few trail days with Medicine Wheel and have an understanding of what it would take to do a bit of the repair but I'd hardly classify myself as a trail repair/reconstruction expert. However, I've felt compelled to do something about Ute as I live 8 houses down from the Southern access point on Sevenoaks Drive and it's sort of my front yard.

    Kind of short notice but how about Tuesday late in the day, afternoon'ish possibly evening time? We just hosted a club ride for 60+ folks yesterday so the house is even tidy-up'ed a bit

    I have a bar-b-que and still have a selection of "adult-beverages" available that I'd gladly offer to who ever could make it.

    Obviously with Winter approaching it will limit the amount of work that can be done comfortably but I'd at least like to learn about what could be done and maybe figure out the worst-hit area's.

    Feel free to contact me via email: twobytandem @ yahoo.com or call my cell @351.3205 if you are interested or have other idea's.

    Cheers,

    Allen

  12. #12
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    Wow To You All :)

    TwoBy, MSCINCO, RY..KICHRI,
    Sorry I can't yet drink. There are a couple of us who use this Handle so we will all digest this ...

    I applaud those that are willing to organize but what can we really do? It is impracticable repair once the degrading is done. To remove rocks, trees, roots, boulders is easy and costs nothing, however, to return them once they are removed.is exponentially more difficult and costly. Running clubs are profiting heavily and it costs them nothing. We however are busy earning livings or in skool.

    So many MTB types refuse to take a stand and move a few rocks, or remove misplaced trailstuff. So much room for fixing. Everytime you ride, remember this it is YOUR park to protect and maintain. Sometimes you HAVE to interact with others who might be degrading the rocks. Sometimes the best way to accomplish is to remain disorganized. I was up there yesterday and the Peak Trial Runters tossed all the loose stuff over into the ravines, there is no way to bring these little mid and large rocks back pending large equipment or motorized vehicles.

    Someone in another post suggested that MTBrs show up and ride during their runs, like a sit in...a ride in.....IT COSTS US NOTHING AT ALL.....and perhaps offer some 'assistance' when they degrade the parks for profit. The local park managers will not support us as they too believe a buff trail is the best trail. So perhaps by inconvienencing them enough there will be fewer willing fee paying participants and slowly they will stick to the SantaFe style trail systems for their races and profiteering at our expense. Their motive is PROFIT and not about sustainability of our ROCKY mtn parks.

    Studying becons...every time you ride, don't be afraid to protect your trails any way you can. Keep these posts coming, some good ideas.

    JIm W
    Last edited by CSPRINGS; 10-29-2007 at 12:46 PM.
    C.SPRINGS

  13. #13
    Your retarded
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    CSPRINGS, I still can't figure out whether or not you are a real person who really upholds these extreme ideas or someone who just enjoys the trolling. Regardless, you have earned my appreciation for your posts here. The entertainment is too good.
    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  14. #14
    Shoulda went faster
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    Just got back from my lunch ride at Ute. Figured I'd go look for thses "buff" trails. All I saw was the normal lines that develop every year. Guess the rock fairies were busy last night. As for the white "paint", it was only flour, of which most is gone. The most "buffed" out spot I saw was from bikers clearing out a drop at the sandstone play area. Let's becareful where we are pointing our fingers at.

    Give me a holler if you would like to show me the "buffed" spots. I'll be out at lunch on Wednesday, or any other time. My name is Shawn and I'll be riding a black Nomad.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomad rdr
    My name is Shawn and I'll be riding a black Nomad.
    Sound like you are at an AA meeting...
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSPRINGS

    ...IT COSTS US NOTHING AT ALL.....
    If you don't watch it it may cost us all everything...
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  17. #17
    Shoulda went faster
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    Quote Originally Posted by kchri
    Sound like you are at an AA meeting...

    Oops! wrong forum.........

  18. #18
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    I've been out to Palmer a handfull of times with Kman and others, kinda a Med wheel thing I guess altho it was just us, I think we could work at Ute if we ran it by MW, they have a ton of tools, or maybe Kman or Paul still have em, I would help as well.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomad rdr
    Just got back from my lunch ride at Ute. Figured I'd go look for thses "buff" trails. All I saw was the normal lines that develop every year. Guess the rock fairies were busy last night. As for the white "paint", it was only flour, of which most is gone. The most "buffed" out spot I saw was from bikers clearing out a drop at the sandstone play area. Let's becareful where we are pointing our fingers at.

    Give me a holler if you would like to show me the "buffed" spots. I'll be out at lunch on Wednesday, or any other time. My name is Shawn and I'll be riding a black Nomad.
    I don't know what the normal buffed out spots are since I've only been here since June. I've just noticed that it seems less rocky than when I moved here. Or I've just gotten better and it doesn't seem as bad.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSPRINGS
    Someone in another post suggested that MTBrs show up and ride during their runs, like a sit in...a ride in.....IT COSTS US NOTHING AT ALL.....and perhaps offer some 'assistance' when they degrade the parks for profit. The local park managers will not support us as they too believe a buff trail is the best trail. So perhaps by inconvienencing them enough there will be fewer willing fee paying participants and slowly they will stick to the SantaFe style trail systems for their races and profiteering at our expense. Their motive is PROFIT and not about sustainability of our ROCKY mtn parks.
    Unfortunately, that sounds more like a good way to lose access.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryguy79
    I don't know what the normal buffed out spots are since I've only been here since June. I've just noticed that it seems less rocky than when I moved here. Or I've just gotten better and it doesn't seem as bad.
    Start rant.

    I've rode Ute for the last seven years. It is a heavily used park with limited trails. Every spring the trails are rocky and by the time fall comes around the trails seemed sanitized just from the use the park receives. My whole point is that bikers, of all people, don't need to point fingers and try to limit peoples access. There is enough of that BS up north. Follow the rules of the trail and above all treat other park users as you would want to be treated. End of story.

    End rant.

  22. #22
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    Let's not become Boulder

    One of the things that has most pleased me about being in COS is the multitude of trail users. We have motorcycles on Jack's, runners in UTE and the occasional equestrian in Palmer. We don't need to get into positions that needlessly cause conflict. If the runners are in fact changing the park then they need to be held accountable. There are a variety of mechanisms for doing so. I'll be happy to suggest plenty, intentionally disrupting group runs is not the place to start. I can tell you where it generally will finish however : this is where trail closures and an us vs them attitude starts. We all stand to benefit from open trails with a variety of users. The last thing we want is to sit in city/county planning meetings defending who should be where when we would all rather be riding.

  23. #23
    Biker Beau
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    Excellent disucssion

    Just tonight I had a nice, interesting chat with a lady friend of mine as we rode back home from downtown about the often contentious "sharing the road" issue between road bikers and car drivers. So many different ways to look at it and even while the law says one thing, it really does come down to personal responsibility and as as Nomad said...treat other users as you would like to be treated.

    Ute is a great little park and many of us use it for recreational riding. I'm always happy to share it with the families I see walking, the runners with their dogs and other riders regardless of ability. I'm hoping that they are deriving the same pleasure out of sharing it with me...a mtn biker.

    The trail work I propose to do is mainly *because* of heavy bike use and then incorrect trail ettiquette as the lines become more challenging, riders start going around the hazards. Unfortuntely that's just the way it goes and while education helps whenever you see it occur, I believe that if other trail users started to witness a group of mtn bikers ride in with tools, park their bikes and toil away for a while working to improve the trail for all...I bet the good will fostered would go a long way toward access issue throughout our fair City.

    Guess I had a rant too...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomad rdr
    Start rant.

    I've rode Ute for the last seven years. It is a heavily used park with limited trails. Every spring the trails are rocky and by the time fall comes around the trails seemed sanitized just from the use the park receives. My whole point is that bikers, of all people, don't need to point fingers and try to limit peoples access. There is enough of that BS up north. Follow the rules of the trail and above all treat other park users as you would want to be treated. End of story.

    End rant.
    if you couldn't tell when we rode at mt herman, i'm a pretty easy going guy. so thats no problem and its how i almost always operate. in fact last weekend at mt herman myself and the guy i was riding with were complimented by 3 equestrians on how polite we were about yielding. so thats no problem here. i was more curious than angry in my first couple posts in this thread about what they were doing to the trails.

  25. #25
    Shoulda went faster
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryguy79
    i was more curious than angry in my first couple posts in this thread about what they were doing to the trails.
    That is my whole point and why I finally spoke up. "What they are doing to the trails" The trails are everybody's not just ours or theirs. Mountain bikers, of all people, need to work with groups not against them. I'm not attacking you personally, just the alarmist attitude that is rampant in this thread. We need to get our facts straight.

    Just a side note. If they did clean the trails of all of the rocks, where are the rocks? There are no piles, groups, or otherwise. Did anyone see them with there own eyes? My wife and son took part in this run. At the start they were told it was a very rocky course. That was the draw of this run, that it was rugged and difficult.

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