Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,869

    Which UST Tires for Front Range??

    I bit the bullet and bought some UST rims. Which tires should I put on them for Mt Falcon, Matt Winters, Roxborough, etc? I'm 165 and don't jump cliffs. Currently ride Specialized Roll X Race 2.0 that came with the stumpy.

    Thanks for any advice

  2. #2
    Who's a member?..Member?
    Reputation: Cole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    95

    ... and if we just ... Tires

    Quote Originally Posted by crashtoomuch
    I bit the bullet and bought some UST rims. Which tires should I put on them for Mt Falcon, Matt Winters, Roxborough, etc? I'm 165 and don't jump cliffs. Currently ride Specialized Roll X Race 2.0 that came with the stumpy.

    Thanks for any advice
    Conti Vertical Pros (2.3) or the 2.1 version in the rear if the Vertical Pro is too big. They are not a true 2.3 and run anything on the front range like a mashed cat (animal activists stay cool, I've never really seen or mashed a cat myself, I think they run fast though). Good Luck!
    "Now that's just plain silly, Isn't It?"

  3. #3
    locked - time out
    Reputation: s1ngletrack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,728
    FWIW - buy some Stan's goop to run in your tires if you haven't already - it will make the experience considerably more enjoyable.

    I would stay away from Hutchinsons (though I've not tried any other UST tire) the casings on them are made of paper mache or some such material, and I've ruined 3 of them (massive punctures and a plum sized "tumor" on one of them) in the 5 months or so that I have been running them - fortunately that gigantic store whose name starts with an "S" has been cool about replacing them for me free of charge.

    I've had similar experiences with Hutchinson CX tires also.

  4. #4
    Stupid and Dangerous
    Reputation: mango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    186
    I've had very good luck running non-UST tires on UST rims and non-UST rims with rim strips. The non-UST tires are much lighter (even with some stans or homemade sealent) and cost about half. Lately, my buddy and I have been running Schwalbe Big Jims and Racing Ralphs for ulta light and Kenda Blue Grooves and Nevegals for more traction.

    As for UST tires my buddy really liked his Conti vertical pros before he switched to non-UST.

  5. #5
    Bad Case of the Mondays
    Reputation: Jdub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,919
    Quote Originally Posted by mango
    I've had very good luck running non-UST tires on UST rims and non-UST rims with rim strips. The non-UST tires are much lighter (even with some stans or homemade sealent) and cost about half. Lately, my buddy and I have been running Schwalbe Big Jims and Racing Ralphs for ulta light and Kenda Blue Grooves and Nevegals for more traction.

    As for UST tires my buddy really liked his Conti vertical pros before he switched to non-UST.
    I run a Schwalbe Big Jim in the front and a Jimmy in the back with pretty good luck. I'm doing the Stans tubeless with non UST tires and rims. I've also run Conti Explorers and Vert Pros before with good luck. I've heard lots of good stuff about the Kenda BGs and Nevegals, but I haven't tried them yet. They'll probably be my next tires though.

    I don't think the BGs or Nevegals come in UST tires though, so if you are wanting "true" UST then they probably aren't options. If I just bought a UST wheelset, I'd probably want to go with UST tires, but thats just me.

  6. #6
    rr
    rr is offline
    I don't do PC
    Reputation: rr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    7,415
    At your weight you would probably have good luck with regular tires and some Stans as long as you don't run too low pressures, but I agree with Jdub, run UST tires. I've had luck with Conti Verts, Fire XC's and Larry recommended the Sch. Fat Albert tire which I have been running in the front and it's awesome, it's a tad heavy but more durable too. I've had bad luck with Hutchinson and Michelin.

  7. #7
    Stupid and Dangerous
    Reputation: mango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    At your weight you would probably have good luck with regular tires and some Stans as long as you don't run too low pressures, but I agree with Jdub, run UST tires.
    Because tone is so difficult to convey via text I first would like to state that I'm not asking this question with anger merely curiosity. That said...

    Why would you recommend against non-UST tires? Have you had a specific problem with a non-UST setup? I'm asking because I'm running an non-UST tire and rim and would like to know of any problems others have had so I can avoid them in the future.

    This summer I converted my x517 rims to tubeless with Walts tubeless method and have been running non-UST tires happily for 6 months. I was a little weary at first but have since put 500 miles on my Superlight of very tough terrain including Camp Dick, Jamestown Loop, Keystone and Moab. I weigh 185 and have run my 600 gram Schwalbe 2.4 Racing Ralphs down to 32 psi with out a problem.

    Is your distrust of non-UST tires from actual experience or just a general mistrust of the setup?

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: marinjp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    216

    I like the hutchinsons on my xc rig

    I know I am gonna get some slack for this but I have had really good luck running the python UST here on the FR, The newest ones with the deeper tread have been really good for me, no torn sidewalls, burps or bubbles, and they mount super easy with a floor pump and stan's sealant. AND they can be found on sale! The conti vert pro's 2.3/2.1are a great lite all conditions tire, but I have had really poor luck with sidewall issues on these, and they cost a ton and the tread wears as fast as the pythons. I also like the Panaracer fire xc pro UST in a 2.1 or 2.3

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: marinjp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    216

    Non UST tires are ok on non UST tubeless converted rims

    They don't work very well IMO on the UST rims. That, I believe, is the issue here. I also have a set of Original crossmax non-ust that I converted with STANS and have had great success with conti Supersonics and hutch pythons, both non ust tires, as VERY lite race day wheels that have worked awesome.

  10. #10
    icegeek is hot
    Reputation: TVC15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    5,456
    Quote Originally Posted by Cole
    Conti Vertical Pros (2.3) or the 2.1 version in the rear if the Vertical Pro is too big. They are not a true 2.3 and run anything on the front range like a mashed cat (animal activists stay cool, I've never really seen or mashed a cat myself, I think they run fast though). Good Luck!
    What he said. VPros are the shyte. 2.3s. Even in deep snow, they rock. Get yo-self a pair. Don't worry about the price. They're worth every penny. And then some.

  11. #11
    rr
    rr is offline
    I don't do PC
    Reputation: rr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    7,415
    Quote Originally Posted by mango

    Is your distrust of non-UST tires from actual experience or just a general mistrust of the setup?
    I ran some standard tires for 6 months on my UST rims before buying UST tires, they worked well and never flatted except for a sidewall tear. The main thing for me was the tires felt squirmy at my weight(200lbs) and they would burp air and felt like they would roll in corners, I really never could run less than 45lbs or so or they would not feel right. I think it's a good setup for lighter riders but it's much lighter and not as durable as a UST tire.

  12. #12
    Stupid and Dangerous
    Reputation: mango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    The main thing for me was the tires felt squirmy at my weight(200lbs) and they would burp air and felt like they would roll in corners, I really never could run less than 45lbs or so or they would not feel right.

    Hmmm... That's really interesting. I've heard of tires "burping" but have never experienced it. I wonder if it's related to using or not using a sealent (I've never not used a sealent)? I have heard that with non-UST tires they can sometimes feel a little squirmy as the sidewalls are generally less robust.

    For me, I was able to run lower pressures (vs. tubes) on more rocky terrain and avoid the pinch flat. Luckily, running low pressures (32-37) hasn't been an issue but maybe I've just been lucky with tire choices.

    My buddy with Crossmax UST's experamented with a few UST tires and liked the Contis (as stated before) but had a real difficult time with the Hutchensons after tearing 2 sidewalls in a couple weeks.

    Sorry to hijack this thread and spin it on a non-UST tangent...

  13. #13
    Bodhisattva
    Reputation: The Squeaky Wheel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,607
    I've tried just about all of the tires listed above, including the standard Kendas with Stan's.

    For UST specific tires I like the Albert/Fat Albert best, followed by Big Jims. I like the Verts least. I haven't tried the UST Geax Sturdys but many folks seem to like them for front range conditions.

    However, I"ve found the 2.3 Front Kenda Blue Groove and 2.1 rear Nevegal Stick-E tires sealed with Stan's to be far superior to any of the above. But they can be a bit difficult to seal and are a complete PITA if it blows on the trail.

    Kenda will shortly be releasing UST versions of BG & Nev in 2.1 size, but with conventional rubber only. No Stick-E for now.
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rfields4013's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    395

    Continental Vert Pro 2.3's

    Quote Originally Posted by crashtoomuch
    I bit the bullet and bought some UST rims. Which tires should I put on them for Mt Falcon, Matt Winters, Roxborough, etc? I'm 165 and don't jump cliffs. Currently ride Specialized Roll X Race 2.0 that came with the stumpy.

    Thanks for any advice

    I totally agree with the previous posts that recommend the Cotinental Vertical Pro. I couldn't believe the difference that they made! They roll fast and really hold the trail. They can more than handle anything along the front range.

  15. #15
    Now Uploading
    Reputation: mtbdirteater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,110
    Quote Originally Posted by mango

    Is your distrust of non-UST tires from actual experience or just a general mistrust of the setup?
    I'm gonna chime in here and tell you the good and bad things about my experience running non-UST tires without tubes (on tubeless rims). Back when I swore by and used to use Continental tires (Vertical Pro front and either Explorer Pro or Survival Pro depeding upon weather/trail conditions), I got a UST wheelset. At first I put the Continental UST tires on them, and was happy. I did use Slime (Tubeless) in them at the time. However, I kept ripping the sidewalls of the rear 2.1 Explorer UST tires on rocks. The Vertical Pro UST on front was fine.

    After a few rears and wearing out the front, I thought I would try some barely used Continental Vertical Pro non-tubeless tires tubeless, that I had before I got the UST wheels. I used Stans sealant, which sealed the beads better than Slime, but it leaked and leached out of pores in the tires for days because some non-UST tires have a more pourus casing, not being intended to be filled with a liquid sealer. I had become acustomed to about 28psi in the front and 34psi in the back with the heavier UST casings before. I had to uncrease the non-UST tire's air pressure past the point where I had good traction to get enough sidewall support to avoid side deflection without tubes. Then I ripped the sidewall of the rear tire on my second ride on them as tubeless. I was using the Pro-Tection stronger sidewall. Ripped the front tire's sidewall about a week later. Those were nice tires, and expensive. I wanted to use them up, but not that way. Went back to a UST front. Ripped another, and my last Pro-Tection sidewall rear. I don't think the sidewalls on the Continental non-UST tires are strong enough to support the tire without a tube at reasonable pressures (32psi - 45psi without tubes, but traction suffered).

    I was so ticked at my tire situation, I went through a phase with DH 2-ply tires. Non-UST (Maxxis) mounted without tubes, with Stans. They leak a little bit (I still run those that way on one bike), but can run the lower pressures I like, they don't tear or roll off the rim, and can't pinch flat a tube that's not there.

    I have since gone to UST type only on my XC bike on CrossMax XL rims. With Stans. Seals all my goathead thorn punctures. I like and need the slightly thicker sidewall casings of the UST tires, for durability, and sidewall support. Aside from my road bike, I run tubes in only half of my mountain bike's wheels. My urban bike (non-UST DH rims) has DH tubes filled with Slime in them, they seal punctures great. My single speed has plain Schreader valve tubes filled with Slime in non-UST tires. I run Stans in both UST rim bike's tires.

    And my latest XC project which I'm putting some lightweight wheels on, I'm using Mavic XC717 non-UST rims with Stans rim strips and sealer to convert them to tubeless WITH UST tires (Maxxis High Roller 2.1 UST... very light weight UST tires).

    I no longer run any non-UST single ply tires tubeless, and I no longer run any tires or tubes without sealer in them, except the road bike. It doesn't have anything to do with what type of rims they are on, I just find that I need the support of a tube in a non-UST single ply. I'm not a 60psi kind of guy. Or into ripping thin unsupported sidewalls and pinchflatting. I don't care how light (and fragile) my bike could be if I can't finish a ride without flatting.

    Your mileage may vary...

    Dave
    [SIZE=2]Just Passing Through: eatin' dirt & crappin' dust[/SIZE]

  16. #16
    rr
    rr is offline
    I don't do PC
    Reputation: rr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    7,415
    Quote Originally Posted by mtbdirteater
    I'm gonna chime in here and tell you the good and bad things about my experience running non-UST tires without tubes (on tubeless rims). Back when I swore by and used to use Continental tires (Vertical Pro front and either Explorer Pro or Survival Pro depeding upon weather/trail conditions), I got a UST wheelset. At first I put the Continental UST tires on them, and was happy. I did use Slime (Tubeless) in them at the time. However, I kept ripping the sidewalls of the rear 2.1 Explorer UST tires on rocks. The Vertical Pro UST on front was fine.
    I was running the Vert's front/rear when I tried the tubeless setup with standard tires, not strong enough sidewalls as you said, I'm sure there are some beefier standard tires that work well as tubeless but why not just use UST.

  17. #17
    Now Uploading
    Reputation: mtbdirteater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,110
    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    I was running the Vert's front/rear when I tried the tubeless setup with standard tires, not strong enough sidewalls as you said, I'm sure there are some beefier standard tires that work well as tubeless but why not just use UST.
    Yup, I haven't found any decent non-UST heavy casing tires though except a Panaracer Fire Freeride 2.4, and they weigh a ton. Might as well use 2-ply Maxxis DH tires then, a 2.35 is about 1070 grams, no tube weight without a tube, but of course you're not saving any weight this way either, just getting low pressure durable non-pichflattable (heavy) tires.

    I think the only way to save much weight just for the point of going tubeless would be to use lightweight fragile non-UST tires with no tubes, but with the weight of a Stans rim strip and sealer, you are not gaining much weight loss. The reasons I went tubeless in the first place were to eliminate pinch flats and to use sealer to combat the goathead thorn problem. I can use sealer in a Schreader valve tube, and I do on my bikes that are not tubeless, but to me, tubeless is the way to go for all these reasons. Just pack a tube in your Camelbak in case you do rip a UST tire sidewall or make a hole in it bigger than will seal. You'd have the same exact problem with a tube in a non-UST tire anyway with a big hole, so I'm not buying anyone's argument there.

    Since I stopped using Continental UST tires (Explorer Pro UST tire sidewalls are fragile, but they are lightweight racing tires)... I've only flatted once with tubless. I got a nail from a board in it downtown. Try Maxxis UST tires, I can't rip the sidewalls.

    BTW, I like a Maxxis High Roller 2.35 on front and a Larsen TT 2.0 on rear for trail riding in most cases (about 28psi front/ 36psi rear), but I run Minion DH 2-plys (not UST tires) without tubes, using Stans, on my AC (about 22-24psi front/ 32-34psi rear).

    Only reason I use tubes on a couple of other bikes rather than convert their non-UST rims to tubeless with a Stans kit, is because I change tire types on them too often. I use DH tubes on my urban bike regardless of the tire types. I have a hard time pinch flatting a Hutchinson DH green tube, even in a single ply tire. I like the Nokian DH tubes too, but the ones I have are Presta valve that I used previously on my DeeMax wheels, and I couldn't put sealer in the Presta valves easily... I wasn't going to drill out the rim holes 11/32" for Schreader valves and not be able to put the UST valve stems back in later.

    Flatting without sealer sucks!

    Tubeless with sealer is the way to go around here, or at the bare minumum, sealer in your tubes (...sealer that works, not like those Slime Lite Presta tubes that don't seal). Anything else, and your riding buddies just end up waiting for you to screw with changing and patching tubes when you flat. Not cool!

    Cheers,

    Dave
    [SIZE=2]Just Passing Through: eatin' dirt & crappin' dust[/SIZE]

  18. #18
    Bad Case of the Mondays
    Reputation: Jdub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,919
    Quote Originally Posted by mtbdirteater
    Yup, I haven't found any decent non-UST heavy casing tires though except a Panaracer Fire Freeride 2.4, and they weigh a ton.
    I'm not sure what constitutes a "heavy casing tire", but I've been running the Schwalbe Big Jim 2.35 and Jimmy 2.1 Double Defense non-USTs in a tubless Stans setup without any problem. The Jimmy was a little porous, and it took about 5 minutes for the sealant to kind of bubble through the sidewall and seal up. However, once it sealed it has been rock solid. They are also very light, with claimed weights being around 575 - 595.

    I weigh 195 (yikes I'm getting fat in the winter), and run about 35lbs of pressure. I haven't ripped any sidewalls, but I've only been in CO for about 5 months too....

    So I do think its possible to run non-UST tires via Stans with good luck, but depending on your weight, riding style and good old fashion luck your mileage will vary. I haven't had a flat in almost a year with my current setup, but maybe I'm the exception to the rule.

  19. #19
    Stupid and Dangerous
    Reputation: mango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by Jdub
    I'm not sure what constitutes a "heavy casing tire", but I've been running the Schwalbe Big Jim 2.35 and Jimmy 2.1 Double Defense non-USTs in a tubless Stans setup without any problem. The Jimmy was a little porous, and it took about 5 minutes for the sealant to kind of bubble through the sidewall and seal up. However, once it sealed it has been rock solid. They are also very light, with claimed weights being around 575 - 595.
    I'll echo what Jdub said... I've been running light (sub 600g) tires all last summer with no issues. I've run mostly Schwalbe tires with thin sidewalls and "homemade sealant" (which I've found to be better than stans stuff), the sidewalls bubble for 45 seconds and then they're good. I don't claim to be the most graceful rider and would understand if I got a sidewall tear, but anytime I've torn a sidewall in the past I doubt any tire sidewall casing would have held up...

    Also as for tubeless rim strips... checkout Walts tubeless page:
    http://www.waltworks.com/dev/faq/gotubeless.pdf

    All you need is 3M strapping tape (no really it does work). I double wrap my rims and it adds about 20g including a valve, much less than the skimpiest of tubes.

    Ok enough proselytizing I don't get any royalties from this setup but I figure people should know the "homemade tubeless" can work.

  20. #20
    Stupid and Dangerous
    Reputation: mango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    186
    I'll also add that anyone who's in the Boulder area and thinks I'm on crack or whos interested in seeing the "homemade" setup is more than welcome to meet me over the weekend and I can show them my setups and how to do it yourself...

  21. #21
    Bodhisattva
    Reputation: The Squeaky Wheel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,607
    what're you using for "homemade sealant" besides latex & water?
    Care to share the recipe, including ingredients & amounts?
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  22. #22
    Stupid and Dangerous
    Reputation: mango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    what're you using for "homemade sealant" besides latex & water?
    Care to share the recipe, including ingredients & amounts?
    If you search this board for "homebrew" or "homemade" sealent you should find a few recipies. The one I use and have had very good luck with is the one from Walt's site.

    Here's Walt's recipe:
    Step 8:
    Things will begin to get messy here. Take a heaping spoonful of the liquid
    latex and add ¼ cup of water, plus a tablespoon of windshield washer fluid if
    you’re using it, and a tablespoon of slime. An old jar is a decent container to mix
    in, since you’re pretty much going to make a sticky latex mess – don’t use
    anything you want to drink out of ever again. Mix these ingredients up until most
    of the big chunks of latex are gone (you actually don’t need to mix all that well,
    riding your bike around will do a better job of this than you ever could anyway).
    That recipe again:
    Tablespoon of latex.
    ¼ cup of water.
    Tablespoon of windshield washer fluid.
    Tablespoon of Slime.
    Latex can be found at Hobby Lobby or Michaels or any other crafts store it's usually sold as "Latex Mold Builder" for about $10 per pint. I've also heard that the Specialized tire sealent works slightly beter than the Slime but the slime mixture has worked well for me and has that cool mint ice cream look.

  23. #23
    Now Uploading
    Reputation: mtbdirteater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,110
    Quote Originally Posted by mango
    If you search this board for "homebrew" or "homemade" sealent you should find a few recipies.
    I'm gonna try beer in my tires next. Probably light beer for less rotational weight.

    Yeah, that silly no more drinking new year's resolution didn't last too long.

    Cheers,

    Dave
    [SIZE=2]Just Passing Through: eatin' dirt & crappin' dust[/SIZE]

Similar Threads

  1. light grippy big UST tires wanted
    By Dan Gerous in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-10-2005, 01:04 PM
  2. non UST tires on UST rims
    By DrDon in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-26-2004, 10:55 AM
  3. stupid question from a new guy
    By micwan in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-25-2004, 06:04 AM
  4. Need help choosing tires for Bullit, Mavic D 2.1 UST rims,....
    By rug wheelie in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-17-2004, 08:39 AM
  5. Replies: 52
    Last Post: 05-03-2004, 02:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •