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  1. #1
    theHeadlessThompsonGunner
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    For the unemployed-- (nooner today)

    Chazza and I are riding the Apple Valley side of Hall this afternoon, if anyone wants to meet. Prepare for a slow ride, with lots of screwing around.

    12:30-1 in the Apple Valley/Hall Ranch pking lot.
    "I've courted brain damage like some courtesan of darkness."


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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDizzle
    Chazza and I are riding the Apple Valley side of Hall this afternoon, if anyone wants to meet. Prepare for a slow ride, with lots of screwing around.

    12:30-1 in the Apple Valley/Hall Ranch pking lot.
    Just saw this post. Hope it wasn't too sloppy. The bottom part of the trail nearest the parking lot is ok, but it's misleading. Once you get up into the switchbacks and up to the top, it's super duper sloppy. I was up late Sunday and decided against going down Antelope for the trail's sake. Might be a tad better now, but there was quite a bit of snow and slush still on it. Hasn't been too sunny in Lyons either. Bitterbrush is good all the way to the Nelson Loop, though. Stay off the loop, too. It's pretty bad right now.
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  3. #3
    theHeadlessThompsonGunner
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    Nope--

    It's not OK. We made it most of the way up, with very careful hiking, before we realized we should not be riding. It made more sense to go over, though, and come back around on the road. Descending down the Apple Valley side would have been disastrous. The front side is in really good shape up to the bench. Chaz is going back to Oz Friday, and I wanted her to squeeze in one more ride before she goes.
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  4. #4
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    front side is good to the bench.... excellent. i need a dirt fix and i should be able to get there about 4 tomorrow. should give me some time to play in then rock garden....and i havn't been to hall in a while...
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

  5. #5
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    Hey Brian, I could make 4:30...

    If you want some company. I rode out to the loop yesterday (Tues.) and it was BUFF! A couple of soft spots on the back side of the bench hill, but mostly super tacky. You could send me a text on my phone 7202731806 (ATT).

    -Dave

  6. #6
    theHeadlessThompsonGunner
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    Gotta...

    go to a BOA/BP meeting tonight, and put Chaz on the plane Friday, so I don't think I'll be riding again until the weekend. Interested in (perhaps) Friday afternoon, or anytime Sat/Sun?
    "I've courted brain damage like some courtesan of darkness."


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debaser
    front side is good to the bench.... excellent. i need a dirt fix and i should be able to get there about 4 tomorrow. should give me some time to play in then rock garden....and i havn't been to hall in a while...
    Enjoy the rock garden whilst you can, for it will metamorphasize shortly. Too many cheater lines and freeride lines = Park Management reworking the rock garden.
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  8. #8
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    Hey Dave...is that for sure that it's being rerouted, or just an educated guess? That trail has changed from sweet ST to 4-10 foot wide trail in sections in the last 3-4 years I've been riding it. Kinda sad really that we (the biking community) couldn't have done better by the trail.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibmkidIII
    Hey Dave...is that for sure that it's being rerouted, or just an educated guess? That trail has changed from sweet ST to 4-10 foot wide trail in sections in the last 3-4 years I've been riding it. Kinda sad really that we (the biking community) couldn't have done better by the trail.
    Well, I got the same story from a Parks Interpreter and a Park Ranger on seperate occasions. I don't know that it will get rerouted per se, but my understanding is that it will receive a MAJOR overhaul. Boulder County has received many complaints about that section, be it too difficult, widened trail, user conflicts, freeriders, you name it. The "unnoficial" word is that the major trail project will take place on National Trails day, June 5ish, I think.
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  10. #10
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    sounds like it's time for an intervention. i can see it now - rerouted to follow the old ranch road... tickets to folks who try to ride the old section...

    how i miss the experimental trail....
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debaser
    sounds like it's time for an intervention. i can see it now - rerouted to follow the old ranch road... tickets to folks who try to ride the old section...

    how i miss the experimental trail....
    No way they'd route down that road. I had a, uh, friend, poach that once. Said it was super steep and really rutted and rocky. Not very climbable for the average Joe. Geez, the reason Antelope doesn't follow the road on that side the entire way is because it's too steep. The Antelope jeep road is nowhere near the grade of the Bitterbrush jeep road. County folks made it sound like the trail would stay in the same location but it would just get the patented Boulder County sanitizing treatment. For what it's worth anyway, general Boulder County trail maintenance guidelines call for no rocks over 4" high protruding from the trail bed. I doubt it will come to that, though!
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  12. #12
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    it will be sad to see the last technical trail in the boulder county open space get sanitized. the betasso conector used to be a challange - now it's no more difficult than betasso, save the first climb from the road... larimer county (and jeffco) seem to have a better variety of trails and difficulties. More car time to get to good rides i guess... how long until they put in the escalators for us?

    iganzjr, you going to be around this evening?
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

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    well...there's still some techy stuff on Walker ranch in Boulder Co, that I certianly can't clean....<shrug> You're right though. There's certianly not much of it.

  14. #14
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    the technical parts of walker have been under attack from the county for a while - soon you'll be able to ride everything there - and so will your grandmother.

    I only get to walker about once or twice a year. i don't like all the wide open trails up there. and with the work they've done i get less and less interested in going there. especially since it's only a couple more minutes in the car to get to the peak to peak and the trails up thatta way...
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

  15. #15
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    Too true. I remember two parts on it that I could never clean until the trail crew came in. One of them was VERY trivial for a hiker, but a challenge for my then below average skills. Too bad Boulder Co. can't see that their dollars would be better spent on making new trails and not sanitizing the current ones.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibmkidIII
    Too true. I remember two parts on it that I could never clean until the trail crew came in. One of them was VERY trivial for a hiker, but a challenge for my then below average skills. Too bad Boulder Co. can't see that their dollars would be better spent on making new trails and not sanitizing the current ones.
    Debaser - I'll be around tonight. Probably get home about 5:45ish.

    Now that I'm all riled up, on to my RANT.

    I got into a pretty detailed discussion with the ranger about this. He was pretty cool, actually. It's all about recreation vs preservation. Obviously, Boulder County is much more preservation minded than the other counties. Hence, Heil is Boulder County's biggest park acreage-wise, but has darn near the smallest amount of trail.

    Anyway, since Hall Ranch is adding more parking spots on the Hwy 7 side (may be news to some folks), I asked if their goal was to make the park's trails more crowded than they already are. We got into a discussion about multi use trails vs hiker only trails and people dispersion into the backcountry and all sorts of things. The main thoughts are that A) their primary goal is to manage open space for preservatoin of habitat and B) manage for "quality of experience" for the majority of park users. Obviously, since there are bike trails and no-bike trails, hiker and horses must qualify for a different "experience" than bikes. Also, since they manage for the majority of users, there are more novice riders at the parks than otherwise, therefore, Boulder County must manage with their "quality of experience" in mind. Since a lot of those folks can't or won't ride the rock gardens or anything else mildly challenging, they've been creating cheater lines to make it rideable by the skills they already possess rather than challenging themselves to learn new skills. Back to preservation - these new cheater lines have created, as Kirk mentioned, 10' wide trail in spots. 10' singletrack isn't leaving much to preserve and it's not doing much for habitat. Now all the challenging parts will be gone and we'll have Lyons Betasso.

    Forgive my pessimism, but this is just another example in which mountain bike riders have failed to police themselves. The result is a trail that is (arguably) a less desirable trail for bikes, horses, and hikers alike.

    I'll end my rant with a plea for everyone regarding the few remaining mildly technical sections in Boulde County - PLEEEEEAAASE, if you can't ride it, walk it or learn it. Don't create new lines. It hurts us all.

    END of rant.
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  17. #17
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    Nooooooo! I was just wishing this AM that there were more trails around here that were Hall rock garden-esque. And now they're gonna go pave (in effect) Hall? A much better solution would be to put in a new alternate trail that bypasses the rock garden for those with that preference. There is certainly a problem of the ever widening trail there and certainly some is bikers' faults, but I've seen plenty of hikers cutting off switchbacks, etc. Either way though, any use (as well as melt-off) is going to constantly expose more and more rock. In fact, I think the rock garden has been getting more and more fun as more rock gets exposed. And you can see big rocks starting to pop up all over that trail. If only we could keep it narrow, it could be a techy rider's dream in a couple years. But in come the trail police. Argh! Rant over. Is IMBA or BOA aware and involved? S

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSR
    Nooooooo! I was just wishing this AM that there were more trails around here that were Hall rock garden-esque. And now they're gonna go pave (in effect) Hall? A much better solution would be to put in a new alternate trail that bypasses the rock garden for those with that preference. There is certainly a problem of the ever widening trail there and certainly some is bikers' faults, but I've seen plenty of hikers cutting off switchbacks, etc. Either way though, any use (as well as melt-off) is going to constantly expose more and more rock. In fact, I think the rock garden has been getting more and more fun as more rock gets exposed. And you can see big rocks starting to pop up all over that trail. If only we could keep it narrow, it could be a techy rider's dream in a couple years. But in come the trail police. Argh! Rant over. Is IMBA or BOA aware and involved? S
    To my knowledge, nothing official is lined up and I don't know how sanitized it will be. I'm hoping for some major dumping flash flood style thunderstorms this spring. The storms we got last spring really helped make that section a lot tougher. Come May, it'll probably be as wide and as difficult as it can be.

    I hear you on the hikers cutting, too. I just like to complain. I'm still stoked to have Hall, though. It's a great ride in a beautiful area.
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  19. #19
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    when i think of places like, say, white ranch or horsetooth, i think of the easy trails or the hard trails inside those parks. surely i'm not the only one that thinks that way.. when the little lady wanted to start riding, i took her to betasso, then heil, then the east side of hall. easy progression. in 5 years, what, betasso betasso, left hand canyon betasso and lyons betasso? why not a system of trails, like say those in front of the flatirons that allow a bunch of different experiences in one area? with boulder county, it's one trail per park. they just aren't using the populated space very well!

    i think hall is falls prey to "cheaters" becuase the switchbacks are so easily cut because the trails are packed pretty tightly in there. it's also easy to see "easier" or "more fun" lines there.

    the county might go in and construct the trail better - bury some rocks in the middle of the less desirable lines! anyone who's looked at the bottom of the old experimental trails knows the county has the knowhow... Perhaps they should down a few key trees (a'la the betasso connector) to keep people on the trail... or perhaps they should just build enough new trails (or open other trails to bikes say maybe the mesa trail) to get spread out the trail users throughout the whole system.
    Last edited by Debaser; 02-25-2004 at 12:48 PM.
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  20. #20
    theHeadlessThompsonGunner
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    Aw, ****!

    Man, the things that will come to pass in a thread when it's left unattended all day! Sheesh!

    Well, this is crammed with really bad news, and some Revalation-esque things about BCOS. I think everyone has already touched on the problems, so I'll sum up:

    Too few trails, in too large a space, open to cyclists. Riders are left to one trail, regardless of its difficulty. In an area densely populated with sissy-yuppy types, there's much corner-cutting (hikers being the worst of the bunch as far as cutting switchbacks goes, and horses being the most destructive to the existing trail). Riders who can't ride, nor can they shed their egotism and walk, simply ride around. It's what Slime tubes are for, eh?

    Whatever the case, it seems cyclists are a very easy target for the brunt of the blame ("why can't they just ride on the road, anyway?")--horses have been grandfathered in, and hikers are on foot--what could they do?

    I've a BOA/NMBP meeting tonight, and I'll see if I can get anything concrete from our side of the fence (not that ignazjr hasn't done his research).
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  21. #21
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    One voice...

    That's it, I'm renewing my BOA membership this year, http://www.boa-mtb.org/index.html, and I'm going to email Boulder County Parks and Open Space.

    It's good to vent, better to take action.

    If we all speak with one voice, we will be heard.

  22. #22
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    Agreed. I'd put in some serious trailwork hours to build an alternate trail that bypasses the rock garden. That seems to be the best answer. Have a blue square line and a black diamond line. Choose your adventure. With signage stressing the importance of staying on the trail. That way we solve the "experience" issue by having an easier option and add another 1/2 mile of trail to our meager allotment.

    You can see exactly how the trails get widened too. For example, right past the bench there's the muddy section and enough people always go off the trail to the left to keep their bikes clean. Come on! It's mountain biking. Ride right through that mud. It's like 50 yards at most.

    Stefan - Has BOA started its members meetings yet or was your meeting for trail patrol folks? I definitely want to get more involved this year. Like daveM said. S

  23. #23
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    Wow!!

    [QUOTE=ignazjr. For what it's worth anyway, general Boulder County trail maintenance guidelines call for no rocks over 4" high protruding from the trail bed. I doubt it will come to that, though![/QUOTE]

    I'd never heard that before about the 4 inch rule. I broke my hip last June on a minor fall on one of the rocks that protrude from the trail at Heil. It was easily higher than 4 inches. I fell over on a short climb after clipping a tree and landed square on the rock: broken hip.

    There are numerous rocks over 4 inches tall embedded in the trail at Heil.
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  24. #24
    theHeadlessThompsonGunner
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    Update.

    There IS a National Trails Day scheduled for June 5th, but sanitization is not a part of the plan. There is 'general maintenance' planned for the second mile (Rock Garden), and it will be 'repaired' in the areas that are damaged. So yes, it will become easier in spots. That said, it's BCOS' and BOA's goal that as wide a spectrum of riders as possible should be able to ride the [few] trails they make available. In their own words (or those of a BCOS advisor), they are becoming increasingly bike friendly.

    Take from this what you will, but we'll just have to wait and see what happens to Hall. I honestly believe it is NOT BCOS' plan to 'fill in the step' or the like. The feeling I got was good, but it was indicated that the trail would see maintence/restoration, and the result would be a trail different from the one that exists, be it easier or what have you. THERE ARE NO PLANS TO RE-ROUTE HALL RANCH. That would be a very silly thing to try and do, and would, for the 20 years it would take the old trail to grow over, create two wide swaths through the natural environment they're [rightly, but sometimes irrationally] concerned about protecting already.

    The above was gathered from a BCOS advocate, and BOA/NMBP fellow rider (at the BOABP meeting last night). Again, I'm not prepared to take all of this as gospel, and plan on just waiting things out--perhaps it's the sceptic in me, but the words 'Betasso Hall' do have a ring of imminent truth to them. DaveM's plan, in the mean time, seemed most logical and reasonable--go get involved! It's BCOS' job to listen to all trail users, albeit more to some breeds than others, and they're getting better at it.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDizzle
    There IS a National Trails Day scheduled for June 5th, but sanitization is not a part of the plan. There is 'general maintenance' planned for the second mile (Rock Garden), and it will be 'repaired' in the areas that are damaged...

    Take from this what you will, but we'll just have to wait and see what happens to Hall. I honestly believe it is NOT BCOS' plan to 'fill in the step' or the like.
    Thanks for the update. Call me pessimistic, but some reading betweent the lines may be called for here. I worked several days at Heil Ranch during trail construction and was able to witness firsthand the Open Space rock removal crew. I vote that the best thing folks can do besides joining their BOA is to volunteer on Nat'l Trails Day (if they open it up to volunteers). That way, you'll have as direct of a voice as possible!

    Also, not sure on the step, but both Open Space folks I talked to called that out as a "problem area."

    One last question regarding last night's meeting, was there any mention of the new Boulder County Mountain Bike Park Host thing?
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  26. #26
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    Uh.....OUCH!!! Hope that healed, and BOCO doesn't hold all their trails to that rule.

  27. #27
    DSR
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    Quote Originally Posted by ignazjr
    I worked several days at Heil Ranch during trail construction and was able to witness firsthand the Open Space rock removal crew.
    Is that where they broke up all the big rocks to leave a bunch of fist sized rocks?!

    Quote Originally Posted by ignazjr
    Also, not sure on the step, but both Open Space folks I talked to called that out as a "problem area."
    Problem area. What's the problem? That some people actually have to get off their bikes for 10 seconds? Seriously, what is the complaint? Certainly it can't be hikers complaining about freeriders. I think everyone scrubs speed through that section. I honestly don't understand what the complaints are and where they are coming from. Hikers can't be complaining about it being overly technical. So is it really complaints from bikers who don't want to push their bikes for a total of 5 minutes? If any BCOS rep, ranger or whatever would be interested, it would be pretty revealing to take them on a ride around the whole trail and make a point to get off and walk (and time) any moderately technical sections and in the end compare ride time to walk time. My guess is that a beginner to intermediate rider will take between 1:45 and 2:30 to do the whole thing and will be off the bike "pushing" due to technical difficulties for a total of 15 minutes. And that is a pretty concentrated 15 minutes through the rock garden, so it's not like they're having to constantly get on and off over the course of the entire ride. That seems pretty reasonable to me.

    Sorry for the stream of conscience there. I just can't imagine anyone screwing up the best 1/2 mile of trail within a 20 mile radius of Boulder/Lyons. Checking BOA website regularly to make sure I make the first meeting. S

  28. #28
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    The problem...

    is that too few do actually walk. It's a lot to ask some folks who've just plunked down $5000 for their first MTB, a Maverick, of course, to cram their ego back into its doldrums so they can actually walk it. Indeed, the problem is instead of walking the section, they simply ride around it. What's that do for the trails? Red-flags them for BCOS as 'problem areas'.

    BCOS is sort of coming around to balance the recreation/preservation thing, and they're interested in a wide spectrum of folks being able to ride their parks--to them, that means dumbing them down. Perhaps--no, definately--what we need is a park dedicated to MTBing, with trails for all skill levels, rather than one park with one freaking hard (in the eyes to far too many) trail. It's a finely proposed solution, but it will be a good decade before it's heard. That's a lot of land to donate to MTB ruckus and destruction, eh?

    Again, I rant. Ah well. On another note, there is a 'walkaround' planned, which will hopefully include a 'ridearound', at which time everything you've mentioned will be surveyed. I think the best immediate fix would be for trailhead signs to be posted concerning walking, opposed to riding around a section, as it's really slipped past a good number of folks. Unfortunately, 2/3 of those folks are hikers and horseback riders, who will never be the target we are.

    That said, it'll be just as well when me and my BOABP buddies can get out and actually catch the *******s who condone such 'avoidance of technical sections'. That's what we're here for (or part of it, at least), and it will be a good day when just one person learns the destruction s/he can wreak on a section with just two tire tracks around a circumnavigable section, and moves to right their wrongs. On the same note, if anyone is interested in getting involved 'un-politically' in Boulder MTBing, and thinks they'd make a good Bike Patrol candidate, let me know. We're always looking for volunteers, and now's the time to make yourself heard.
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  29. #29
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    More...

    Just got this letter Cc'd from Eric Vogelsberg, of BOA/NMBP:

    Mike & Adam,

    At last night's Bike Patrol meeting I had a discussion with Stefan about some rumors he's seen on the Web about plans to sanitize the Bitterbrush trail. I tried to reassure him that our plans are for maintenance to make the trail more sustainable, not to remove the challenges. He sent me links to the Web thread where the discussions are (he's already made some updates based on our conservation last night). Perhaps we should get him some more information or reassurance.

    Follow the second link below to the discussions (the material of interest begins after some discussions of trail conditions).

    Eric


    The links in question were to this thread, and to MTBR, with which many are not familiar (how's this possible, eh?).
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  30. #30
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    I'll be the first to admit - last night, i walked the step BOTH ways. yeah, ME! I sure don't want it rerouted or dumbed down, because some days i can ride it, and once i get the new bike figured out a bit more, I plan on riding that every time. I liked dabbing five or six times last night because it taught me what i need to learn to do better. now if only we could post that on a sign... Actually, this reminds me a bit of the folks out Fruita way and their trail nazi attitude: if you can't stay on the trail, don't ride it.

    It seems that we're a bit spoiled on the other side of the divide. Are the IMBA rules of the trail posted at trailheads in Boulder County? I'd certainly put in some time to help install a sign that asks folks to stay on the trail because leaving the trail puts the system in jeopardy.

    the biggest problem is reaching the people that don't care as much as we do. average joe probably doesn't notice the changes they inflict, where i like to think that i'm overly aware...
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

  31. #31
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    Agreed. We're not gonna solve anything talking amongst ourselves. The key is getting the message out to the average Joe. Those guys aren't hanging out on mtbr.com all day! Sounds like the BOABP is a good idea. Catch people in the act and then deliver a firm but friendly message. And signs should help as well. Especially with mud season in full effect here.

    Sidenote: This Front Range board is awesome! Such a good way to organize rides, get trail condition updates, trail issues, etc. I've definitely come full circle on the "new format." S

  32. #32
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    And more...

    I'll admit too, Debaser, that I tend to ride the step a half-dozen times per ride. Yeah, ME! Ho-ho. Anyway, I just got this letter from Mike Barrow--see what opening your mouth will get you? It also went out to Bicycle CO, Adam at BOA, and the new Redstone Cyclery.

    On that note, I EXPECT EVERYONE POSTING HERE TO BE AT THIS NAT'L TRAIL DAY. While the best place to have your say isn't right before the gallows drops, you'll still be listened to, especially if you've a shovel in hand. See Mike's last words.

    Greetings!

    Mike Barrow here. I am the VP of Boulder Off-road Alliance and on the BOA Trail Events Committee. We are working with BCPOS to design and implement a trail work event on the Bitterbrush's Rock Garden on June 5 (NTD).

    We are aware of the free floating anxiety that pervades those that love the rock garden. I have been riding Hall since the day it opened and have seen the constant state of falling apart this section has endured. Being good stewards of the land demands we do better.

    We are calling upon the IMBA Trail Care Crew to consult with us on what needs to be done to stabilize this trail while keeping it technical. It is important that any talk of a tail work event on this trail underscore our goal of keeping this trail technical. Truth is, I don't think we could ever gentrify this section of trail. We all have seen the evolution of BCPOS's trail crew; they have a poor record of equating stabilization with gentrification. But you will have to admit, the work done on the Antelope trail up from Apple Valley Rd is arguably the best work they've done to date. BCPOS is quite aware of the knock we've given them on these issues and they actually are making noises that they "get it". We'll see...

    I am inviting you and your friends to join us in this effort; after all, the best way to influence an outcome is to participate in the process.

    One more thing that might be of interest to you..... BCPOS presented their 5 year Capital Improvement Plan in December. They put the Heil to Hall connector at the top of their priority list. There is no other project that is higher on their list. Three months ago, the Heil to Hall connector wasn't even on the radar. While the Heil connector still requires land acquisition, the Lyons to Hall Connection is likely to happen in 2005.

    There are some good changes in the works at the County.... if you want to hear more, you know how to contact me...

    Last question: Where the hell is Redstone Cyclery? A bike shop in Lyons?

    Thank You

    Michael Barrow

    mtbmike@us.ibm.com
    303 924 9098

    The world is run by those that show up....
    "I've courted brain damage like some courtesan of darkness."


    -The Good Doctor

  33. #33
    DSR
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    Awesome! Heil to Hall. I know it's been kicked around for a while, but great to hear that it's a priority.

    Back to the rock garden... I think the only real problem that needs to be addressed is the trail-widening issue. All of the erosion (from both use and the elements) is a good thing I think. So hopefully the work will be limited to fixing any detrimental erosion problems and working in some kind of obstacles to narrow things up where they've gotten too wide.

    I'll be at the next meetings with my voice and the trail works day with a big honking shovel! Glad people are on this. S

  34. #34
    contains quinine
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    that's cool. I don't want to spam Michael, but how would I take advantage of this:

    "I am inviting you and your friends to join us in this effort; after all, the best way to influence an outcome is to participate in the process."

    I'm all fine and well with putting on a pair of boots and leaving the bike at home for an afternoon, but I'd love to be able to influence the process BEFORE trail sanitization (or other improvements) takes place. At that point, I'd be more invested in a process to put on those workboots.

    Some of my favorite trail features were engineered out of the Betasso connector, and honestly, if i had been asked to help reroute and santize some of the trails in the area I'd be more likely to walk away from a trail day than stay and make something that in my eyes might be worse.

    I guess it's time for me to be a little less of a hermit about these things, eh?
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

  35. #35
    DSR
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    Sorry to keep adding to this tangent, but we should get at least the BOA guys on mtbr and this board in particular. (Maybe they already are and I'm just clueless.) Good way to keep the local mtb community together and informed, in addition to the bi-weekly or monthly meetings. They can quickly and easily inform people of developments and both members and non-members can voice their thoughts, ideas and concerns. Also probably a good way to get more people involved in their efforts. Anything to generate a larger and more unified voice. S

  36. #36
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    it's funny you say that - i go to boa's website very infrequently because their content doesn't change often enough. Here however... I'm an addict.
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

  37. #37
    ride
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDizzle
    I'll admit too, Debaser, that I tend to ride the step a half-dozen times per ride. Yeah, ME! Ho-ho. Anyway, I just got this letter from Mike Barrow--see what opening your mouth will get you? It also went out to Bicycle CO, Adam at BOA, and the new Redstone Cyclery...

    The world is run by those that show up....[/I]
    I just got off the phone with Mike. Good conversation. Mountain bikers in this area have much to look forward to, but the only way it's going to happen is if we all speak with one unified voice. BOA's looking for minimum 50 volunteers for this rock garden project, so spread the word.

    I'll be posting all of this info and more up on my website. Also, if anyone has any advocacy news for this area, pass it on to me and I'll post it as well. I'm doing what I can up here in Lyons. I just joined as an IMBA dealer member today, too.

    Mike's quote is the truth, indeed - The world is run by those that show up!
    Redstone Cyclery
    intense*transition*rocky mountain*turner
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    Lyons, CO

  38. #38
    mtbmike
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    The World is run by those that show up....

    Mtbmike here.... nice to see the traffic this stuff is generating.... one correction... NTD event will limited to 50 volunteers. Trail Crew leaders are the limiting factor.

    I can't emphasize enough the need for Boulder County mountain bikers to become a member of Boulder Off-road Alliance. Land Management Agencies don't take action when a single person (or a dozen of them for that matter) come in and make demands. But when a group hangs around for 13 years and represents hundreds of taxpaying, registered voting mountain bikers and they "suggest" changes, it is reasonable to assume that they listen and sometimes actually take action.

    Boulder County is blessed and cursed with having people that are passionate about every point on the spectrum. Those that would keep us out and trail access at a minimum are well organized, well funded, and never change their message. BOA, and other recreation groups are working to get Boulder County and the City of Boulder into the recreation business. It will only happen when enough of us band together and our interests cannot be ignored.

    Many things are happening, the County is running out of money and must start managing the lands they bought, two out of three County Commissioners are gone in 2004 thanks to term limits. And this week BCPOS published their very first Mountain Bike Survey.... 506 respondents.... all of them said, "we want mo trails, mo longer trails, mo singletrack"! We have a window of opportunity to steer this thing in the right direction.

    Have I interested you enough to act? Then go to the BOA website, subscribe to our email newsletter, and then print the membership form and join us! And after you've done both of these things, email me and I'll send you the survey!


    Just kidding.... send an email to mtbmike@us.ibm.com and I'll fire off the survey to you
    mtbmike
    Longmont Colorado

    The world is run by those that show up....

  39. #39
    DSR
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    Good stuff. I'll certainly be there and will drag at least a few others (non-mtbr addicts!) out with me.

    I'll shoot Mike an email re establishing a BOA presence on this board. Like Debaser said, I check in there every week or so, but it's not updated very frequently. And it's not like nothing's going on. The rock garden and Heil-Hall info are both critical. I understand that it's not a full-time job and that updating a webpage isn't super easy. That's why using this forum would make a lot of sense. Anyway, I'll shoot them that suggestion. I think a combo of BOA, mtbr, some trailworks projects and just some fun group rides could help establish a more unified mtb community. And more unified means a stronger voice in decisions that affect acess, maintenance, new trails, etc. Pretty exciting actually.

    Ignazjr - I think it's pretty telling that you were all pumped up after talking to Mike B. Just need to get that message out to the wider audience around here.

    S

  40. #40
    ride
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSR
    Good stuff. I'll certainly be there and will drag at least a few others (non-mtbr addicts!) out with me.

    Ignazjr - I think it's pretty telling that you were all pumped up after talking to Mike B. Just need to get that message out to the wider audience around here.

    S
    Thanks. Honestly, I've been pumped about this stuff for awhile. Living in Lyons riding Hall as often as I do... I'll be starting after work group rides in Lyons after Daylight Savings, maybe sooner. I'll keep y'all posted. It'll be good for unification and spreading the gospel. Also, just got the official word that the Nelson Loop at Hall will now be "adopted" by Redstone Cyclery, too. I've been working on that one for a while. I'm excited about the future. There's a reason for everyone to be pumped! We just need to make it happen.
    Redstone Cyclery
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  41. #41
    mtbmike
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    Start an ongoing thread for Boulder County...

    this is the first time out on the forum for me.... Can we start a Boulder County Thread?

    Mike Barrow aka mtbmike
    mtbmike
    Longmont Colorado

    The world is run by those that show up....

  42. #42
    DSR
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    Welcome! Just shot you an email actually.

    Yeah, let's just start a new thread. Anyone can update it with any new info, questions, suggestions, concerns, etc. It'll be a good cache of info. Regulars can check in to see the latest and not-so-regulars can read through it to get the full run-down.

    Mike - You're probably the right one to start it off, introduce BOA, BOA website, next meeting, some recent happenings, etc. Good stuff.

    Dave - That's great about sponsoring the loop. This is exciting. And it's still Feb! S

  43. #43
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    Hey Mike, anyone can start a thread, so if you wanted to start one and dump all the BOA contact info (like webpage, etc...) that'd be really cool, and others can jump on the thread like they did on this one.

    Kirk

  44. #44
    theHeadlessThompsonGunner
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    "Tacking threads"

    I know threads can be 'tacked' at the top of a page, so they don't move regardless of recent posts, but I think only a moderator can do it. Is this board moderated? Anywhoo, we're all Boulder (or thereabouts) folks on this board anyway, at least those of us who are true addicts.
    "I've courted brain damage like some courtesan of darkness."


    -The Good Doctor

  45. #45
    mtbmike
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    Boulder County Advocacy Thread created

    It's out there now... I'll be posting lots of background info inthe next week. I've already posted the BOA 2004 Trail Work Schedule in this thread.

    and I will monitor this thread.... so post your questions and issues! c ya l8r
    mtbmike
    Longmont Colorado

    The world is run by those that show up....

  46. #46
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    stupid is what stupid does

    Quote Originally Posted by DSR
    Agreed. I'd put in some serious trailwork hours to build an alternate trail that bypasses the rock garden. That seems to be the best answer. Have a blue square line and a black diamond line. Choose your adventure. With signage stressing the importance of staying on the trail. That way we solve the "experience" issue by having an easier option and add another 1/2 mile of trail to our meager allotment.

    You can see exactly how the trails get widened too. For example, right past the bench there's the muddy section and enough people always go off the trail to the left to keep their bikes clean. Come on! It's mountain biking. Ride right through that mud. It's like 50 yards at most.

    Stefan - Has BOA started its members meetings yet or was your meeting for trail patrol folks? I definitely want to get more involved this year. Like daveM said. S
    dont you think if they worked on the muddy spot the yuppies wouldnt have to go around it. that makes sense

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