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  1. #1
    Candlestick Maker
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    Trailhead / gun range / dump

    I shall not dilly dally through this section of trail...



    I've stopped on three occasions to politely notify people that they are shooting down a trail. Clueless!

    I think the closure of the Rampart Range shooting range has successfully increased the amount of irresponsible dispersed shooting.

    Thankfully, the carnage only lasts for 200 meters (although the danger is present for much longer), leading to this:

    baker

  2. #2
    ridin dirtay
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    Fwhew!
    Thought it was another LHC thread

  3. #3
    Your bike is incorrigible
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    The surprising thing is that only the litter is illegal.

    Now, on to more LHC discussion, since it seems they are just about to resolve the issue!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    The surprising thing is that only the litter is illegal.

    Now, on to more LHC discussion, since it seems they are just about to resolve the issue!
    yeah exactly we were so close to LHC resolution until the recent discrimination on this forum against hicks and this post does nothing but perpetuate this negative stereotype.
    ...although sad do they get bonus points for shooting a tree with beetle kill?

  5. #5
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    Hicks in LHC, no way!

  6. #6
    i have chain issues
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    Ha, I assumed this was more lefthand.

  7. #7
    Think Circles!
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    Where? You SHOULD call 911 since they are putting lives of trail users in danger.I'm all about responsible shooting but thats a mess right there.

    If you'd prefer not to call 911, and want to disclose the location, I can get you to the correct people to talk to.

  8. #8
    Hairshirt Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by baker
    I shall not dilly dally through this section of trail...
    That spot always leaves me scratching my head. Plenty of safe places to shoot up there, but that's not one of them.

  9. #9
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    I've been in contact with USFS many times on this, in person and in their face, not just one the phone. So has gram. So has Chris. Likely Brad has too. And many others. The Pike Rangers now have a policy that only someone trained and armed can approach target shooters and confront them. They have one guy (Heaney or Healy)- and when Chris and I call him you get a answering machine. He is the only USFS guy that can write tickets on those roads too - though I suspect the county Sheriff can as well. Not meaning to rant on them, but this is as bad or worse than the meth lab and growing operations they are dealing with in Pike-San Isabel.

    We were doing an Eagle Scout project in conjunction with the USFS Pike guys 1.5 years ago in the fall, and we had to run out of a section of Limbaugh because we had several impacts within yards of us. You could hear the ricochet coming, then hear it through the leaves, then the thud. That close. We called immediately - Pike did not respond, nor were they all that concerned about it when spoken with later at the Motor Vehicle Plan workshops. Chris and I confronted the shooters, gulp, all three were polite, but that truck showed up the next several weekends and kept shooting in the same area - knowing the trail was there. These guys had drum feed .45 semi-auto nonsense - in 20 years of riding this area (and I live where I can hear it near the preserve), nothing comes close to the 1000 or so rounds they blasted out in that 30 minutes. Both the picture Brad shows and the "range" one switch up from where USFS 715 (stupid trail, limbaugh) crosses Mt Herman are issues.

    The USFS is negligent now, if someone gets hurt or worse. They know of the problem. They've had first hand reports of impacts on USFS 715, a systemized trail they are supposed to maintain, and they don't patrol the area as often as it needs it. They also claim that Rampart will reopen when the NRA or some organization steps up some volunteers to run it, and volunteers to keep it clean. They are also looking at better locations for that kind of range, since Rampart is now near houses, and Williams Canyon trail has always been there. Reasonable stipulations no doubt, but the USFS is pointing at others to fix the problem and will do nothing about the current issues. For current issues, perhaps as suggested above the Sheriff's office needs to get involved?

    I don't mean this to be an anti-target shooting, anti-hunting, anti-selfdefense, anti-2nd Amendment, anti-gun rant. Those that know me know better - for those that don't I guess you'll have to take my word. But that doesn't mean target shooting in every random part of the forest is a valid use of public land. Occasional plinking, maybe, if safe, but how do I know that noise I am hearing means my family and I are safe. And certainly forcing me to hear target shooting is not a right and infringing on my right not to have to listen to it. The safety part is not even arguable. Neither is the trash and the tree destruction.

    Rant off. Not really. It is going to get worse before it gets better...

    jon

  10. #10
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    Very sad area indeed. Every time I see it I just shake my head in disgust. Can't figure why people would continue to trash that area.

  11. #11
    Stiff yet compliant
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    There was recently a situation with a shooting range and a trail by Nederland. The trail ran near the range and the forest service decided it was unsafe. Both were user created features but the decision was made to keep the range and close a section of the trail. Many people (myself included) were none to happy about this.
    Looking at the big picture and the situation in Rampart I can see why this decision may have been made. People are going to shoot. If you close one informal range the shooting and target trash will only be dispersed over a larger area. The range near Ned has a good backstop and is convenient so people will use it. These ranges may become trash strewn disasters but at least they are confined to one spot away from other forest users.
    All things considered it may have been the best decision to keep the range and reroute a short section of trail rather than try to find another safe convenient spot for shooting.

    (Flame suit on)

  12. #12
    I'm with stupid
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    If i remeber correctly a few weeks ago i went right by this area, the sad part was that right down the road was the local PD unloading all there "gats" out of the marked cars walking up to set up targets. Closing of rampart range was one of the dumbest things that could have happend (IMO) it was a place were all the iresponceable shooter could get together and shoot fridges and tv and all that in one spot. So we all knew they were there and there was only one place that looked like a big trash pile. Instead they closed it and turned all those type of people loose to find a new spot to go and shoot and not clean up after.
    As far as the USFS having a policy of not approaching shooters unless they are armed trained and all that good stuff makes since cause some folks tend to get pissy and hostile when they being told no and have a gun and its not coming from there mom or a "real" cop. But i think that one guy being the only one that can do this or even write a ticket is lacking to say the least. I understand budget and all that but step it up alittle, at the least make it "look" like your doing something. stick up a sign that says clean up trash, and watch for trail users,
    Im a very avid gun owner and love shooting and all that good stuff, But this type of thing makes me mad cause it makes all shooters look like rednecks or hicks that blast everything. (not the OP pics but the makeshift range with trash all over the place)

  13. #13
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    They didn't do that intentionally, it was just easier to cut that tree down.

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtydoug
    ...although sad do they get bonus points for shooting a tree with beetle kill?

  14. #14
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    yep..I know trying to add some light to a sad sight.
    I seldomly ride CCW and that don't mean counter clock wise
    so step off punks and thugs and don't get out of line with me if we get into it over yielding.

  15. #15
    Your bike is incorrigible
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    I'm telling you, the dude on horseback whom I was talking to had the right idea. He carried a 45 with him to deal with idiots. He used it once to frighten some guys who were shooting downrange onto a popular trail.
    Last edited by Guyechka; 06-22-2010 at 09:10 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    In all seriousness, you need to take a gun up there, point it at them, and tell them to get the f@ck out and never come back. If they do come back, shoot to kill.

    I am not kidding at all.
    Ammm, you're telling him to effectively commit suicide.

    Let's think this through... he pulls up to people with guns, doing target practice. Then, following your advice, he points a gun at the target shooters and tells them to leave. And if they do come back... he should shoot them.

    OK, let's leave that last part off for a second. The target shooters are now being threatened with deadly force. They have weapons... loaded weapons. They are within their rights to defend themselves from the imminent threat (that being the presumably loaded gun now being pointed at them) by shooting whoever takes your moronic advice.

    Now back to the last statement (shoot to kill... not kidding). So, let's assume the target shooters have more sense then you (and anyone idiotic enough to take your advice) and do pack up and leave for the time being. But they come back at the same time you come back. So you shoot and kill them. Enjoy your time in prison; we call that murder. Pre-meditated murder.

    What kind of "moran" are you, anyway?
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  17. #17
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    First of all, I myself enjoy some pistol shooting now and again.

    ...but this just comes back to the same death-of-common-sense that you see with some riders and trail building these days too. For every sensible person there is at least one bonehead. For every person who knows how to use a forum, and a computer like a civilized ape, there are handfuls that are oblivious. You could write about this in a gun forum, but it'd never reach the people it'd need to.

    You go into a gun forum and (essentially) nobody would be this dumb. And not even all the people you'll find up there using a spot like this are really as dumb as it'd look, they're just being mentally lazy. Most would know better, but aren't excercising any judgement at all; they just see a spot that looks reasonable simply because it's been so well-used. It's a false sense of comfort.

    They need to snap it back into perspective. They're discharching their firearms on public property without any backdrop and any control or clear view of what's "downrange".

    That's what I prefer to think though. That they're either stupid or not properly respecting their firearms for what they are (lethal). I'd hate to think--and I doubt--that they just don't care that they might kill someone.

    "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor

    Forget the USFS, perhaps somebody can put up a laminated sheet of paper nailed to one of those trees explaining the issue, asking that they please discover a new location with a backdrop, and reminding them that they could kill someone...but take a picture of it beforehand, because it might not be readable in the 2nd picture with all the bullet holes in it

  18. #18
    Your bike is incorrigible
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh
    Ammm, you're telling him to effectively commit suicide.

    Let's think this through... he pulls up to people with guns, doing target practice. Then, following your advice, he points a gun at the target shooters and tells them to leave. And if they do come back... he should shoot them.

    OK, let's leave that last part off for a second. The target shooters are now being threatened with deadly force. They have weapons... loaded weapons. They are within their rights to defend themselves from the imminent threat (that being the presumably loaded gun now being pointed at them) by shooting whoever takes your moronic advice.

    Now back to the last statement (shoot to kill... not kidding). So, let's assume the target shooters have more sense then you (and anyone idiotic enough to take your advice) and do pack up and leave for the time being. But they come back at the same time you come back. So you shoot and kill them. Enjoy your time in prison; we call that murder. Pre-meditated murder.

    What kind of "moran" are you, anyway?
    Did you not see I thought better of my first comment and revised it so that it sounded a bit more rational?

  19. #19
    Team Inflexible
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnordby

    Rant off. Not really. It is going to get worse before it gets better...

    jon
    Yeah somebody’s gonna get shot! What gets me is all the trash left behind. If you can pack it in you sure can pack it out. It shows such disrespect to trash our national forest. Hard to believe people can be so ignorant. Car campers can be the worst. Up by Mt Rosa and Frostys the other day there were several vacated campsites with tons of trash left behind. Makes me sick. I try and pick up a bit and put it in my pack to dump it later but dosent even come close to making an impact.

    sorry that was kinda a mini rant spinoff.

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