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  1. #1
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    tougher ride: Deer Creek Canyon or Bergen Peak??

    I live near Deer Creek Canyon OS park and have ridden it several times (always a humbling experience).
    I'm looking to tackle Bergen Peak for the first time soon on the bike (I've hiked it once). In terms of overall difficulty(fitness + techical stuff), can anyone tell me which is the tougher trail?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    I am now fortunate enough to live near Deer Creek. I have ridden it a few times but definitely think Bergen is tougher.

  3. #3
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    yep, bergen especially ss
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  4. #4
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    I'll disagree. I think Bergen, although longer, is easier technically speaking. Although it has been awhile since I've climbed Bergen.

  5. #5
    not actually bad :)
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    Bergen is tougher technically and physically (imnsho)
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad andy!
    Bergen is tougher technically and physically (imnsho)
    Yeah - but you're a pvssy.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    Yeah - but you're a pvssy.
    Well at least that pvssy rides!
    I'm a cowboy on a steel horse i ride!

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBR me!
    Well at least that pvssy rides!
    I did Deer Creek just the other day you f**ker.

    Bergen Peak's a piece of cake.

  9. #9
    not actually bad :)
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    Yeah - but you're a pvssy.
    Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
    Old Codger

  10. #10
    Moosehead
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    Other than WOS on DC which is unrideable by all but a few of the strongest riders, IMO, Bergan is tougher if for no other reason due to altitude. Suggest clockwise up to Bergan Peak.

  11. #11
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    Bergen is the tougher climb IMO but The Wall at DC never fails to humble me
    For DC, I love the Red Mesa loop (clockwise) - always has me grinning from ear to ear.
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  12. #12
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    Never done Deer Creek

    Quote Originally Posted by Rufhausen
    I live near Deer Creek Canyon OS park and have ridden it several times (always a humbling experience).
    I'm looking to tackle Bergen Peak for the first time soon on the bike (I've hiked it once). In terms of overall difficulty(fitness + techical stuff), can anyone tell me which is the tougher trail?

    Thanks.
    But Bergen is out my front door... and it never gets easy. I usually do it counter-clockwise, although clockwise may be technically easier on the way up. If anyone thinks it's a "piece of cake", they're either lying or a phenomenal rider...

    If you want to link together a nice longer ride - do Bergen - Dedisse- Three Sisters/Evergreen Mountain and back...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead
    Bergan is tougher if for no other reason due to altitude.
    I haven't made it up to Bergen yet, but I'd expect the above to be true. 2k more elevation can make a huge difference.

    I'd say Deer Creek and Mt. Falcon are similar though, excluding the WOS.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyToyz
    I haven't made it up to Bergen yet, but I'd expect the above to be true. 2k more elevation can make a huge difference.

    I'd say Deer Creek and Mt. Falcon are similar though, excluding the WOS.
    I have done Mt. Falcon - and it's a great climb, but certainly seemed easier than Bergen... certainly from a technical perspective...

  15. #15
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    Bergen is harder IMHO-


    headin to DC now, though. So I must be a pvssy
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  16. #16
    Moosehead
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    OT, how about them Nuggs? Props on the avatar efforts during the playoff run WKD-RDR.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR
    Bergen is harder IMH
    headin to DC now, though.
    Dang - that must be an all day trip for you, eh?

  18. #18
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    I apparently must be blocking most of the memories of the Bergen Peak climb for some reason...

  19. #19
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    DC has a couple of rough spots, but Bergen is fairly tough throughout.

    DC is a bit far for me, like 40 min drive. But I've hit Hall so many times this year, I need a change. Care to join, Skared. Or are ya...scared?


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  20. #20
    jeny jo
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckred
    If you want to link together a nice longer ride - do Bergen - Dedisse- Three Sisters/Evergreen Mountain and back...
    Yup, my front door, too... and I adore climbing up Bergen regulrarly .... IMO climbing Too Long (going counter clock wise) is just such a different climb than climbing Bergen Peak Trail (going clockwise). Too Long is a grunt of a climb, and it's a good 'work out' ... but Bergen is more 'entertaining' going up (all the fun stuff to clear). I climb both, depending upon my mood ;-)

    And the B/DD/A3s/EM and back loop gets done regularly. Time to add more parks onto that adventure.

    Jj

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    I apparently must be blocking most of the memories of the Bergen Peak climb for some reason...
    Skared - you should go ride BP again - just to refresh those blocked memories! I'm in agreement -- Bergen is definitely the more technical/more difficult of the two -- notwithstanding the WOS!
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  22. #22
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    What's all this about notwithstanding WOS? It does exist, and is part of the ride, so you have to include it in your judgement.
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    will nature make a man of me yet...
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  23. #23
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    DC is totally rideable except for the Wall. I need to check out Bergen Peak to see what all the fuss is about. I still have not made it to Falcon either, doh.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR
    DC has a couple of rough spots, but Bergen is fairly tough throughout.

    DC is a bit far for me, like 40 min drive. But I've hit Hall so many times this year, I need a change. Care to join, Skared. Or are ya...scared?
    I'd LOVE to hit Deer Creek. Alas... I'm packing to go camping at Buffalo Creek for the w/e.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbjedi1
    What's all this about notwithstanding WOS? It does exist, and is part of the ride, so you have to include it in your judgement.
    That's probably why I make the DC claim.

    IIRC Bergen is actually rideable from bottom to top, is it not?

  26. #26
    not actually bad :)
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    It is rideable from bottom to top, but there are 2 or 3 stretches of tough technical stuff, instead of just one like DC.
    It's also got a lot more vertical than DC.
    But that is coming from a pvssie's perspective.
    Old Codger

  27. #27
    not actually bad :)
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead
    Props on the avatar efforts during the playoff run WKD-RDR.
    +1!
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  28. #28
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    Love DC due to the proximity from HLRanch.
    It gives me pretty good workout for 1.5-2 hours ride.
    Can someone please post a map for Bergen Park. I could not find it in Jeffco Site. Thx.

  29. #29
    not actually bad :)
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    "Can someone please post a map for Bergen Park. I could not find it in Jeffco Site. Thx."

    Elk Meadow Open Space in Evergreen. Bergen Peak and Bergen Peak Trail are adjacent to the Open Space, and technically part of Denver Mountain Parks:

    http://www.co.jefferson.co.us/jeffco...ds/elkmmap.pdf
    Old Codger

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad andy!
    It is rideable from bottom to top, but there are 2 or 3 stretches of tough technical stuff, instead of just one like DC.
    It's also got a lot more vertical than DC.
    But that is coming from a pvssie's perspective.
    What? You won't give props to that sweet rocky section next to the multi-million $$ house and the rock-strewn steep bit just after that open switchback that invovlves a BIG water diversion log and then a nice rock face?

    And lets not forget that sweet rock section on the climb toward the Red Mesa loop that starts around the sandy switchback... that's quite tech.

    Guess I'm not the only one with selective memory.

  31. #31
    not actually bad :)
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    What? You won't give props to that sweet rocky section next to the multi-million $$ house and the rock-strewn steep bit just after that open switchback that invovlves a BIG water diversion log and then a nice rock face?

    And lets not forget that sweet rock section on the climb toward the Red Mesa loop that starts around the sandy switchback... that's quite tech.

    Guess I'm not the only one with selective memory.
    Granted those are technical, but if you include them, you would have to also include a few more stretches on Bergen!
    Dude - just admit you're wrong!
    Doesn't majority rule?
    Go along with the crowd...

    I will also add:
    "Although it has been awhile since I've climbed"...DC.
    So there - now I am covered either way, like you!

    Have a fun w/e.
    Old Codger

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad andy!
    Granted those are technical, but if you include them, you would have to also include a few more stretches on Bergen!
    Dude - just admit you're wrong!
    Doesn't majority rule?
    I've grown to distrust the majority as I get older.
    Go along with the crowd...
    But that would be so unlike me.

  33. #33
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    Everybody who can clean all of BP, raise your hand.

    Everybody who can clean all of DC, raise your hand.

    That was easy, DC wins it.

    Next question.
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  34. #34
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    After DC yesterday, I had to fight the urge to do a Dakota/MW loop. Pressed for time, I couldn't (but I did stop by Tipsys). Somehow, I dont think I would need to fight that urge to do another ride after Bergen.

    The WOS looked a bit cleaner than it did a couple years ago (only other time I've made it so far south). While I didn't clean it, I had the distinct feeling it would have happened had a stayed and gave it a few (or more) shots.
    Next time...

    As for Bergen, that *one spot* where you have to dance around a tree and a VW sized boulder protruding onto your path still eludes me.
    Next time...
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  35. #35
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    Did Bergen this morning with Flyer. I'd say not very technical, just not enough air. Bottom half was middle ring then granny most of the rest. I didn't see anything that would be very hard given much bigger lungs or a lower altitude.

  36. #36
    jeny jo
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyToyz
    Did Bergen this morning with Flyer. I'd say not very technical, just not enough air. Bottom half was middle ring then granny most of the rest. I didn't see anything that would be very hard given much bigger lungs or a lower altitude.
    just out of sheer curiosity -- which side of the mtn did you go up?

    jj

  37. #37
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    We went up the easier side and down the other. I wouldn't say the other side was very tech either though but it would have been a bit harder. My main difficulty in CO is the altitude and length of the climbs. I have puny lungs!

    So far only a couple of the trails I've done are what I'd consider super tech, Sourdough/SSV and Dakota Ridge.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyToyz
    We went up the easier side and down the other. I wouldn't say the other side was very tech either though but it would have been a bit harder. My main difficulty in CO is the altitude and length of the climbs. I have puny lungs!

    So far only a couple of the trails I've done are what I'd consider super tech, Sourdough/SSV and Dakota Ridge.

    Well hate to call you out toys, but post up the vid like the gal above your post and i'd love to see those sections cleaned and spat on like the way you make it sound. Maybe its just because ive always been so far ahead of you that i have never seen you clean stuff.

    Just sayin.......
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBR me!
    Well hate to call you out toys, but post up the vid like the gal above your post and i'd love to see those sections cleaned and spat on like the way you make it sound. Maybe its just because ive always been so far ahead of you that i have never seen you clean stuff.

    Just sayin.......


    I've only ridden deer creek once --- and it was many, many years ago. i do recall the wos the only thing super techy ... but my memory isn't so great So my opinion doesn't count one little bit.... I was just curious what side they went up. They're SO different.... Does anyone know the elevation gain at deer creek?

    Nice to see everyone's out gettin' sum fun!

    Jj

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBR me!
    Well hate to call you out toys, but post up the vid like the gal above your post and i'd love to see those sections cleaned and spat on like the way you make it sound. Maybe its just because ive always been so far ahead of you that i have never seen you clean stuff.

    Just sayin.......
    LOL
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenamin


    I've only ridden deer creek once --- and it was many, many years ago. i do recall the wos the only thing super techy ... but my memory isn't so great So my opinion doesn't count one little bit.... I was just curious what side they went up. They're SO different.... Does anyone know the elevation gain at deer creek?

    Nice to see everyone's out gettin' sum fun!

    Jj
    I rode it last week and from the rattlesnake TH (just off Deer ck canyon rd.) i climbed up ply. Creek left on ply. mtn. up to the lookout then over to red mesa clockwise, then turned around and reversed it then back to reverse ply. mtn. and back down to the bottom. That was 17 miles and right at +2960'.

    And to clarify, i did not clean the lower steep right before the hiking only trail bridge and then walked up the WOS. I can only get past the big water bar. But riding ss that is all i got. I've only seen one person on the ss give it a serious effort and that is bigbluedodge! Now i know it can be cleaned, i've seen the video of Taylor? is that IE. I think even Terry may be in that vid. Either way clean it or not Deer Creek is a pretty sweet trail!! IMHO!
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  42. #42
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    I was thinking about this thread on the way up Too Long

    Quote Originally Posted by PBR me!
    Well hate to call you out toys, but post up the vid like the gal above your post and i'd love to see those sections cleaned and spat on like the way you make it sound. Maybe its just because ive always been so far ahead of you that i have never seen you clean stuff.

    Just sayin.......
    I would really love to see someone clean the whole thing. Bottom to top, one shot, no dabs, no hugging trees to rest or regain balance.... Not saying it's not possible given some of the freaks of nature out there, but I'm betting there's not more than a few people who would even have a chance.

    Yesterday I hit a stick, it flipped up, jambed my pedal, sent me off the side and I came out of my shoe that stayed clipped to the pedal. That's just the way that trail is! It can be mean....

  43. #43
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    Like most mortals, I walk both WOS and the water bar steps climbing up to Bergen, and also feel the extra 2k' altitude on Bergen. Both DC and BP are great front range workouts, though Bergen Stagecoach TH starts above DC summit elevation.

    Agreed on tech only commentary, though OP's question on toughness was combined tech and fitness categories.

    TMT, was your BP route clockwise or otherwise, and did you make BP summit or skirt below it?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBR me!
    Well hate to call you out toys, but post up the vid like the gal above your post and i'd love to see those sections cleaned and spat on like the way you make it sound. Maybe its just because ive always been so far ahead of you that i have never seen you clean stuff.

    Just sayin.......
    I didn't say I cleaned, I just said I wouldn't consider it technical. Put those rock gardens some where with more O2, and yeah, I could clean most. The only thing I couldn't make on the way down was some of the switch backs. New bike has a dual crown and it will take me some time to adjust.

    Take a trip down to Austin some time and you'll see technical trails.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead
    Like most mortals, I walk both WOS and the water bar steps climbing up to Bergen, and also feel the extra 2k' altitude on Bergen. Both DC and BP are great front range workouts, though Bergen Stagecoach TH starts above DC summit elevation.

    Agreed on tech only commentary, though OP's question on toughness was combined tech and fitness categories.

    TMT, was your BP route clockwise or otherwise, and did you make BP summit or skirt below it?
    Clockwise! Climbing is hard enough for me without extra need for exertion. Yeah, we made the summit. The last half mile was ride 50 ft, stop and gasp for air, repeat. We took the other way down at the split. For me this is great since last year at this time I was still struggling with the climbs on GM!

  46. #46
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    Lol, are you one of those guys that thinks Emma Long is the hardest trail in the world?

  47. #47
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    Hardest? Not by a long shot. It ain't easy though. Besides, there are parts on the Green Belt side trails worse than City Park. I'm sure there are trails here in CO as bad or worse too.

    I'm just saying most of the trails I've ridden here are not very technical. Bergen is tough but to me its due to the altitude and the length of the climb, not the rock gardens.

    Why such a sh!t storm over whether or not Bergen is tech? Next thing people will be b!tching about shuttling Apex.

  48. #48
    Heads up Flyboy!!
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    Just give it up folks...Hit your National Forest and ride the deal

    Course I'm probably the one missing out since I've yet to ride either of these gems ...If I'm gonna drive to ride though might as well hit the shiznit that begs to be explored.

  49. #49
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    I would have to say if you pass the guy with the skis/ski boots on his back hiking and the guy flying down the hill on the bmx bike sans helmet and then the guy flying down the hill on the commuter bike, again sans helmet and then the guy on the Trek 9000 (rigid, old as f) in the tank top, once again sans helmet, that Deer Creek is harder. or harder to deal with.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by siraerich
    I would have to say if you pass the guy with the skis/ski boots on his back hiking and the guy flying down the hill on the bmx bike sans helmet and then the guy flying down the hill on the commuter bike, again sans helmet and then the guy on the Trek 9000 (rigid, old as f) in the tank top, once again sans helmet, that Deer Creek is harder. or harder to deal with.
    Are you talking about Apex? cause I've seen ALL those (well, except for the dude with the skis/ski boots on his back) over at the pex. just saying......
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