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Thread: Taken out!

  1. #1
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    Taken out!

    So a friend of mine riding a poplar trail was taken out by another mtbiker. Spring Creek trail runs from the high school in steamboat to Dry Lake campground, about 4 miles uphill. In the last few year it's become popular with armor clad riders who shuttle to the top for downhill runs. My friend was riding up, rang his bell to warn the downhill rider and still got smashed. He is looking at a trashed Crossmax wheel, front Fox fork and possibly a damaged head tube on his Moots 29er. If the frame is damaged, my friend is looking at a $5000+ loss from this "accident".

    Wondering what the forum's thought are on this type of bike on bike crash? Is the downhilling rider liable for damages to my friends rig? Time for a Lawyer?

    I would suggest that if a rider is so out of control that they cannot avoid a crash with other trail users they should be responsible for the damages from their recklessness.

    What do you think?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbsbiker View Post
    I would suggest that if a rider is so out of control that they cannot avoid a crash with other trail users they should be responsible for the damages from their recklessness.
    As someone who rides mostly DH... I say yes.

    I'm not in favor of law suits in general, but if someone is that reckless, they need to learn a lesson. (and at very least pay for what they damaged.)
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

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    Are you making this up because of all the Strava nonsense lately?

    If it's true, then I'd say the downhill rider should pay up. Still, if I saw some idiot riding like he owned the place, I'd get out of the way and yell, not just stay on the trail.

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    Sorry for being dumb, anyone know how I can start a new thread. says I can but I cant see new thread button.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cajunrider View Post
    Sorry for being dumb, anyone know how I can start a new thread. says I can but I cant see new thread button.
    Make 4 more posts.

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    thanks, 1 down 3 more to go

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    Not making this up, he has pics if his trashed Moots on Facebook.

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    Spring Creek is the sh!++iest trail to run DH. You guys thing Buff Creek is all marbles, it doesn't even hold a candle to Spring Creek!
    The sad thing is, that bozo w/ the DH bike...it's prob the most valuable thing he owns and trying to collect would be like getting blood out of a turnip!
    I def think the cops/sheriff should be involved, if for no other reason than to perhaps make him sell the DH rig and keep that d!ckh3ad off the mountain, and bike, for a while.
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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    Does he know who the DH rider is?

    First step would be to get a tally of the damage and contact the DH rider. When he denies (and probably freaks out) any responsibility, then it's time to either check out small claims or speak with a lawyer. And maybe even talk to the rangers out there; there could be more than just civil liability involved, too.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbsbiker View Post
    Not making this up, he has pics if his trashed Moots on Facebook.
    Does your bud know who plow him...the dumbass shuttle twat?

    How's about upping some pics?
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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  11. #11
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    The book of faces has the same story tonight with this picture. No idea if true or not, but guessing it had to be a forceful impact with something (if not a head on collision then what?) to cause that kind of damage.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

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    That's Corey's Moots.

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    I run trails too and see this....most mtbers ...perhaps more than 9 out of 10 ...understand responsibility and will either yield or at least apologize/acknowledge an uphill RoW. I understand gravity, so I get the hell out of the way when necessary. However, there are occasions where it is obvious the rider did not care one bit who they plowed over.....and I've seen some top pro mtbers here in Durango act like asses on heavy and multi use trails.

    It's a tort like any other....don't let bike culture play into it. If someone acts without regard for others they certainly take on liability.

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    The DH rider now says its half my friends fault for riding a dual direction trail, and will only cover 1/2 the damages. LAME!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbsbiker View Post
    The DH rider now says its half my friends fault for riding a dual direction trail, and will only cover 1/2 the damages. LAME!
    Sounds a call to the sheriff is in order? Get the Sandy's involved; have your buddy ask for their help.
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbsbiker View Post
    The DH rider now says its half my friends fault for riding a dual direction trail, and will only cover 1/2 the damages. LAME!
    You really think your buddy will even see the 1/2 the guy is claiming he'll cover without getting the law involved??? Not likely. Now that he has likely waited, he'll have a much harder time getting anything/ proving what happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

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    SSPD already weighed in and said its a civil matter, no charges or report.

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    Yes, but has your friend gone in and sworn out a complaint for assault?

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    Gaddammit, that PD is REALLY just the biggest POS on the planet, good for friggin' nothing but speeding tix and DUIs huh?!
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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    I'm not so sure that SSPD gives speeding tickets, but DUI's are an easy charge in this town. What else is anyone doing out past 10pm besides drinking?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbsbiker View Post
    I'm not so sure that SSPD gives speeding tickets, but DUI's are an easy charge in this town. What else is anyone doing out past 10pm besides drinking?
    HAHAHA...
    I don't know what kind of trustafari you are, but I worked... waiting tables, night audit, IT service calls for the hotel.

    So will PD not even take a complaint like Skiahh suggested? What about the sheriff's...or is Spring Creek w/in city limits so the sheriff's also won't touch it? If they don't I'd give Steamboat Pilot a call and let the public know just how they're being "served and protected".

    Edit: don't know if you can sense it, but I have nothing but contempt for the entire governmental structure in that town. The whole lot of them got off the friggin' short-bus when they pulled into town!
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    Maybe the DHer should sue the Moots guy for jacking up his Strava. Maybe the Moots guy should sue Strava.

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    cops don't care they have better things to do than mediate between two mtbrs

    the only way your going to get any money or get the cops involved is to have personal injury and be carted off by the ambulance thats how it works, so always remember to get hurt if you want money

    as far as shuttling I thought it was just some front range "problem" well sure enough shuttling is getting pretty popular in breckenridge. and wow what a mess it is. you've got a bunch of tourons with their heads up their butt wandering along a trail and here comes some mtbrs full speed with no concern for anyone else and guess what... some gaper is gonna get hurt

    at least in breck we have tons of tax dollars to waste so enough complaints and someone will be out there patroling the trail, no joke it will happen

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    Bummer. I've gotten close to being taken out a few times. I avoid those trails now...especially on weekends.

    As it's been said, a lot of these kids have every penny they have invested in that bike.

    Rule #1: Never sue poor people.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Gaddammit, that PD is REALLY just the biggest POS on the planet, good for friggin' nothing but speeding tix and DUIs huh?!
    What is he supposed to do? There are no laws governing trails. From his perspective, you have two guys that ran into each othe on a trail. Was there criminal negligence?

    I think the DHer should have to pay for the damages. But the bigger picture here is who was at fault? Both had the right to be there, one should've yielded to the other, but missed or didnt. In the whole scheme of things, the sherrif has bigger crimes to solve ( speeding tix not one of them, lol).


    So does one write legislation to inact laws on trails? God I hope not. However, if the local authority isn't going to care about public safety on trails, then poaching wilderness trails is what I should do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbsbiker View Post
    The DH rider now says its half my friends fault for riding a dual direction trail, and will only cover 1/2 the damages. LAME!
    Wow. WTF does that mean? Doesn't that mean normal yield rules apply? It's not a single direction downhill only trail so what is he trying to say? He most certainly should be held liable and I'd be doing everything in my power and getting everyone possible involved to make sure he has to fork up every last cent, even if I had to personally pester every damn law enforcement outfit in that town and file 15 police reports. I'd also be giving my insurance company his information. Insurance companies are usually pretty good about going after people pretty relentlessly cause they don't want to pay. If any opportunity comes up to get the guy to admit fault, record it. Probably too late now, but always record the conversations after any altercation if you can. Most people with a smartphone can do this pretty inconspicuously. It can be great evidence to prove your case. All you need is him to admit he was involved and if he admits fault, even better.

    The sad thing is if he ran over an elderly hiker it would probably be front page news across all of Colorado and there would be cries of outrage for the guy's head. He'd be facing assault and reckless endangerment charges. He wouldn't even have a bike anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure View Post
    What is he supposed to do? There are no laws governing trails. From his perspective, you have two guys that ran into each othe on a trail. Was there criminal negligence?

    I think the DHer should have to pay for the damages. But the bigger picture here is who was at fault? Both had the right to be there, one should've yielded to the other, but missed or didnt. In the whole scheme of things, the sherrif has bigger crimes to solve ( speeding tix not one of them, lol).


    So does one write legislation to inact laws on trails? God I hope not. However, if the local authority isn't going to care about public safety on trails, then poaching wilderness trails is what I should do.
    It's pretty simple really. Judging by the damage (and in turn impact force) you can clearly see the one rider was going way too fast for the trail/conditions and was endangering other trail users. Rangers could easily get involved and press for charges. As I said, if he ran over a hiker, it would be front page news.
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    This sounds like an excellent candidate for the 'People's Court" (if the dude doesn't agree to pay everything)

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertHurst View Post
    Maybe the DHer should sue the Moots guy for jacking up his Strava. Maybe the Moots guy should sue Strava.
    Good points, if the DHer yelled "STRAVA!!" I believe he has the right of way, anytime, any direction.

  30. #30
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    DH'ing Spring Creek is one step above DH'ing the Highline Canal. Geez

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    I remember the good ol' days........a little fista cuffs......possibly a beatdown.....end of story.

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    Did I read this right. Some dude on a Moots 29er going uphill got slammed by a DHer on a Huffy. And the Moots owner expects the Huffy dude to pay up. I say Huffy dude hand over your sweet ride for full $5K. payment owed. Done deal!

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    this sounds like a case for Judge Judy

    Yo sbsbiker - your bud should submit his case to a higher power than mtbr-CO FR forum - try Judge Judy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Maestro View Post
    I remember the good ol' days........a little fista cuffs......possibly a beatdown.....end of story.
    No, think again, your memory is quite fuzzy due to the smoky haze that permeated your surroundings during all waking hours. I am not a fan of the litte icons, so I will come out and say that I mean this with no disrespect. In fact, it could be taken as a compliment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Maestro View Post
    I remember the good ol' days........a little fista cuffs......possibly a beatdown.....end of story.
    Well, except while that might make you feel better at the moment the next day you're still out a $5k bike and now have sore hands. (and face and ribs...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BaeckerX1 View Post
    It's pretty simple really. Judging by the damage (and in turn impact force) you can clearly see the one rider was going way too fast for the trail/conditions and was endangering other trail users. Rangers could easily get involved and press for charges. As I said, if he ran over a hiker, it would be front page news.
    I completely understand your point. And I agree with you. However, what state statute did he break? Law enforcement won't get involved unless there are laws that are broken. I understand ethics, yielding, right of way, but the cops see this as two people bumping each other on a trail.

    This is clearly a civil case, cut and dry, easy. But if someone tries to make a bigger deal out of this publicly, bikers will be the ones that lose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure View Post
    Law enforcement won't get involved unless there are laws that are broken.
    I'm not a lawyer or an LEO, but I'd have to think there's something covering negligent destruction of property.

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    The old geezer here is flabbergasted that kids now are actually getting rides to the top just to ride down. I hear that their moms sometimes even drive them. No wonder we have a fat problem. Whoa!

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    The biggest problem I have is that the downhilling rider admits to fault but will only agree to pay for 1/2 of the damages. This lack of owning up, and taking responsibility for ALL of the damage caused by the crash is totally irresponsible. That rider knows what needs to be done to correct this incident's damage. His lack of personal responsibility encorages legal action, that, as IndecentEx said, will just be bad for cyclists as a whole. If my friend goes to lawyers, he's seen as a litigious jerk, and we all could be hit with bad press or kneejerk restriction from the USFS, if not, he is stuck with 1/2 of a huge repair bill for something that wasn't his fault. Total BS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenGeezer View Post
    The old geezer here is flabbergasted that kids now are actually getting rides to the top just to ride down. I hear that their moms sometimes even drive them. No wonder we have a fat problem. Whoa!
    I'm confused. What do mom's shuttling kids to the top have to do with anything of this topic? The rider (weather in DH gear that shuttled or an XC rider that had previously done 10k ft of climbing) was going downhill and didn't yield.

    If I could get fat kids off the couch and get them on bikes, I'd shuttle them myself.
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    I truly feel bad for your friend. His bike is damaged and probably lost some trail time.
    I has hit by a full armored downhill rider as well. Luckily my damage was around $120 for tacoed front wheel and rotor. Missed a week of quality ride time. Of course he did not pay for it. He was lot bigger than I was....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidmantis View Post
    Well, except while that might make you feel better at the moment the next day you're still out a $5k bike and now have sore hands. (and face and ribs...)
    And the loser guy all armored up would, no doubt, run to the local PD station and file charges against you.

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    Sorry ID, but it has everything to do with it. Lack of respect for snakes, lizards, flowers, anything you might see on the way up, even geezers. Lack of respect for the people who put in time to make the trail which your actions are sure to close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenGeezer View Post
    Sorry ID, but it has everything to do with it. Lack of respect for snakes, lizards, flowers, anything you might see on the way up, even geezers. Lack of respect for the people who put in time to make the trail which your actions are sure to close.
    Because these things you mention ONLY occur with a kid who's mom shuttled him to the top?

    Oddly enough... of all the downhill rider kids I've met... I have yet to see that "fat problem" you speak of, how strange.


    Respecting the flowers is now the problem though... I thought it was the fat kids, looking at your last post. You're confusing me.
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenGeezer View Post
    Sorry ID, but it has everything to do with it. Lack of respect for snakes, lizards, flowers, anything you might see on the way up, even geezers. Lack of respect for the people who put in time to make the trail which your actions are sure to close.
    Who said the trail was closing? Who doesn't have respect? The downhiller must have been looking at lizards and flowers, then no wonder he didn't yield. Sue the snakes.
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    iE (my mistake) I've seen many plumpster tykes coming down but few, if any, going up. So go figure. I've never seen any on a trail crew, have you?

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    There is some dumb S#&t being said in this thread. Damn.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenGeezer View Post
    iE (my mistake) I've seen many plumpster tykes coming down but few, if any, going up. So go figure. I've never seen any on a trail crew, have you?
    Resorts aside... how do you think DH trails get built? I can't say I see a TON of the youngest group doing work, but it's not that uncommon either. Work ethic shows itself in different ways in different people. One of the times I was riding with some of the younger Mojo kids & a couple of them were talking about the cross-training they do specifically to better their DH ability, it gave me a new respect for some of the younger kids.

    The trail crews for XC trails though... you'll not likely see a gaggle of armor clad kids carrying rakes & shovels, but that's often just not the kind of thing that gets them interested in doing the work.
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenGeezer View Post
    iE (my mistake) I've seen many plumpster tykes coming down but few, if any, going up. So go figure. I've never seen any on a trail crew, have you?
    Guessing that I've probably put in more trail time than most, I'd say I've seen more kids out there building than adults. In fact, based on all the trail days I've either been to or hosted, people under 35 outnumber the people over 35. Very rarely do I see anyone over 50.

    The Golden Bike Park volunteer crew had a huge amount of kids under 20. Still do.

    Sorry, sounds like you still have a lot of hatred towards the younger generation. Instead of complaining, show them how to build trail!
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  50. #50
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    No, IE, I don't harbor animosity for youngster mtb'ers. I am awestruck by some climbing I've seen. Out of saddle, dancing on the pedals, cleaning rock piles, and pushing on and over the top. Inspiring! Belcher Hill, Mt. Falcon, NTM Cottonwood Canyon are some of the XC trails around here which demand cardio fitness and where these kids excel. However, when I see their mothers drop them off at Boettcher Mansion and they bomb down Chimney Gulch taking bikers and hikers down (this has happened) then I get upset. You know why? They get more chances to do harm with multiple runs and they should go to a DH specific trail, say Winter Park or Keystone. Let their mothers drive them there or to the Golden Bike Park which you say they built. XC is for XC. That means up and down.

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