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  1. #1
    Almost Human
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    Springs Dog Survey

    www.trailsandopenspaces.org

    Parks Initiative. The Colorado Springs Parks, Recreation and Cultural Services Department is soliciting input on your experience with dogs off leash or with aggressive dogs. They want to quantify the problem and then look at specific actions needed to mitigate the problem: E-mail them: myexperience@springsgov.com

  2. #2
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    If an unleashed dog gets in my way, I'll run over the f'n mut.

  3. #3
    Bianchimtb
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    why should the dog pay for its owners stupidity? Don't hit it, just yell at the owners and run them off the trail
    Whatever hurts you, can only make you stronger

  4. #4
    skillz to pay billz
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    I like dogs

  5. #5
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    In Durango this was a problem last year. Dog's were off leash and people not picking up after them. I love dogs love them more on a leash.I got bit on the Colorado trail right in front of the owner. This is a hot topic in New Mexico too.

  6. #6
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    My wife hikes with our dogs (on non-extending leashes) while I ride on the trails. She has a bigger problem with off leash dogs than I do. My dogs are passive, gregarious and mind their own business when passing other bikers, leashed dogs, horses and hikers on the trails. What they don't like is another dog charging my wife when the other dog is off leash even if it may have good intentions. The owners of the other dogs always yell something to the tune of ďdonít worry my dog is friendlyĒ as their dogs charge. They donít understand that the other leashed dog (my dogs) may not react so kindly to the situation.

    I think fines should be imposed more readily for this infraction.

  7. #7
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    BTW Indecent Exposure, run over the owner not the dog!!!

  8. #8
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    Wow! Iím disappointed to learn that some mountain bikers canít show tolerance for other trail users. How easily inconvenience can turn into aggression. Is there any hope this thread will not self-destruct?

  9. #9
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    I let my aggressive dogs run off leash.
    They will knock you off your bike if you look at them the wrong way or make aggresive moves towards them.

    I have plenty of disposable income to pay fines.
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  10. #10
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    Off leash dogs suck. In almost EVERY case.

  11. #11
    gravity curmudgeon
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    Off leash people cause 99% of the problems on Earth. I'm still trying to find their owners so I can complain.

  12. #12
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    Wow, thank you. A dog off a leash is a problem. I know a owner with a dog of leash has some halo above their head. However, their dog can bite too. I share trails with people that have a clue. They have a leash and bag. Were I live now they will not let me in the park with a dog because of all the off leash dog people. In Cloudcroft new Mexico this year a dog was killed. One dog on a leash the other off.The dog off leash killed the leashed one. I know people want this too just go away but the National Forest Service will not.They want dogs on a leash and some times people.

  13. #13
    gravity curmudgeon
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    Our big problem around here is off leash grizzly bears. Next time I come across one, I'm going to run it over.

  14. #14
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    I hope the leashed dog you own is at home. Bears scare me ran into one on Jones Creek trail last summer in Durango my front tire did not go over her or the cub.

  15. #15
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    If you are in the National Forest... and the sight of a domesticated animal off-leash trailing behind its owner on singletrack is upsetting to you.... perhaps the forest isn't your thing.
    Last edited by WKD-RDR; 05-07-2008 at 05:22 PM.
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  16. #16
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    God, I love those pic have a black lab too. I would never put her on a trail off leash. As I said this is too hard for us to talk about. Some see the point some dont. I love dogs. I foster and have three. I walk on leash,run on leash, and yes, ride on a leash 20 miles a day. Maybe we all can come to some agrement that the forest, streets can be safe for all. The forest is for everyone . I just say if you have a dog and its loose and running at me full speed I do not know that dog or love it. Puting it on a leash makes me feel better.

  17. #17
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR
    If you are in the National Forest... and the sight of a domesticated animal off-leash trailing behind its owner on singletrack is upsetting to you.... perhaps the forest isn't your thing.
    No problem as long as those f**kers get out of my way.

  18. #18
    Bianchimtb
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    Its such an easy concept some boneheads can't grasp. Put the leash on, its the rules.
    Whatever hurts you, can only make you stronger

  19. #19
    WWJR
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowdog
    Our big problem around here is off leash grizzly bears. Next time I come across one, I'm going to run it over.





    **How about off leash dogs and their owners shuttling and bombing Apex!?!?!?!

  20. #20
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    This thred always brings the heart and sole of dog people out. Why? When I walk the streets a loose dog comes at me I spray it. In the forest a dog off leash is a great dog. Anyone agree.

  21. #21
    WWJR
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    No problem as long as those f**kers get out of my way.

    Or vice versa!

  22. #22
    leashem
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    I leave my dog at the Palmer Park dog park and take a few laps on my bike and come back and pick her up later. No one really notices if its busy enough.

  23. #23
    I dream on two wheels
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    Here is what annoys me. The last couple years I've been seeing more more little poop bags left on the side of the trail. Why the hell would you take the time to pick up the crap with a plastic bag, tie it in a knot, then throw it on the side of the trail? Why not just throw the crap off trail( minus the plastic bag) That will decompose a lot better than a plastic bag.

  24. #24
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hullendersauce
    Or vice versa!
    That's the main reason I carry a .44 Magnum on the trails with me. It's not because of the bears....

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithrider
    BTW Indecent Exposure, run over the owner not the dog!!!
    I know I've posted it before, did you hear about my Kenosha trail encounter? Heading up hill behind two riders. Unleashed dog (for the 12th time that day) gets in the way (we passed the owner already). The lady in front slams on her brakes to keep from hitting the dog. It moves, we all continue. My friend, in front of me, clips back in and resumes.... once again, the dog runs in front of him causing him to stumble while braking. I hit boiling point with the owner and started to curse a blue streak. (there must have been 30 people witnessing the altercation). My friend who has no temper finally blew his top.

    I'd go to jail if I assaulted the hiker.
    The Hiker would get a ticket, possibly other court charges if the dog cause due harm by not being leashed.

    You're right, its not the dogs fault, but the owners need to learn the lesson.

    Skardshtlss broke an ankle because of an unleashed dog. He could've filed charges, I later found out.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simonns
    Here is what annoys me. The last couple years I've been seeing more more little poop bags left on the side of the trail. Why the hell would you take the time to pick up the crap with a plastic bag, tie it in a knot, then throw it on the side of the trail? Why not just throw the crap off trail( minus the plastic bag) That will decompose a lot better than a plastic bag.
    Man, you are right on!

    I live at a jeffco trail head. F'N owners one day left 4 poop bags on our sidewalk! The wife and I were pissed!

    So, we took the issue on ourselves and supplied a small trash bucket for the hikers. We put it out with our trash every Thursday. I'm trying to help.... but I've often thought of smearing the dog poo on the owners cars.

    BTW, Jeffco is running their sting operations for unleashed dogs in the mt Galbraith park. They've put up signs saying they'll ticket too. This is the number 1 park for unleashed dog complaints (and its Hiker only).

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    Kenosha trail ... Unleashed dog (for the 12th time that day) ... (there must have been 30 people witnessing the altercation)...
    There's the problem. No one scouts the trail out first.

    There's a time and a place, and in Colorado, that window is closing rapidly. The window on a weekend ride with dogs running free (on the trail) closed long ago on Kenosh.

    Sorry to hear 'bout the ankle, Sh!tles
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  28. #28
    Bad Andy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simonns
    Here is what annoys me. The last couple years I've been seeing more more little poop bags left on the side of the trail. Why the hell would you take the time to pick up the crap with a plastic bag, tie it in a knot, then throw it on the side of the trail? Why not just throw the crap off trail( minus the plastic bag) That will decompose a lot better than a plastic bag.
    I have seen that a lot as well.
    It amazed me the 1st time I saw it, and still pisses me off every time.

  29. #29
    WWJR
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    Question(s):
    So, all this ranting on MTBR is gonna solve these issues? Whats the purpose of these threads anyway? Whats it gonna solve? Has it solved certain issues in the past? Im sure just about everyone on this board already knows this, so again...whats the point??

  30. #30
    Your retarded
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    Ya'll do realized that this is the Colorado Springs Parks, Recreation and Cultural Services Department requesting this, right? I've said it before and I'll say it again, Colorado Springs is a different beast than the cities to the north. We certainly have user conflicts, but they tend to be on a much milder scale than what you guys experience, IMO. I think that holds true in the case of negative off-leash dog encounters too. I see how off-lease dogs cause problems, that's very clear, but I'm not so sure they are as much of a hazard down here due to the lower density of trail users... with the only exceptions I can think of being Palmer Park and maybe Bear Creek Park.

    UncleTrail, my official input to the request for feedback regarding off leash dogs in Colorado Springs is that I do not see it as a significant enough problem at this point to extend park resources (people, time, and money) to more heavily enforce it. If there is a problem, I'd prefer more trails to be built to lighten the user density, therefor reducing encounters between off-leash and trail users, than see more restrictions regarding dogs and trail users.

    -Nicholas
    Not a dog owner
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  31. #31
    gravity curmudgeon
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    Honestly, one big problem is that most dog owners are clueless. I'm a big dog fan but believe that owning a dog comes with responsibilities (as does riding a mtb on public lands). A well trained dog is a non-issue most of the time, on or off lease. Sadly, there are few well-trained dogs. It is all about control and mindful public lands usage. Heck, wait till you come down a trail and people have their dog on those extra long retractable leashes going across the trail. Is that better?

    The other issue is that everyone has a different idea of exactly how it is appropriate to use public lands. If I want to hike with my dogs off leash, is that any more or less significant or appropriate than one who wants to ride a mountain bike on a trail? The answer will depend on your perspective -- there is no right or wrong truth. If I want to lolly gag hike a trail with my young kids, I might not want wait either dogs or mountain bikes. These and many other kinds of visitor use CONFLICTS are a huge challenge. No user or group is really more right or wrong -- it comes down to who is better at working the political process of land use decision-making. Winners rejoice, losers whine. Unless you live somewhere with few people, that's the game.

  32. #32
    Your retarded
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    Quote Originally Posted by hullendersauce
    Question(s):
    So, all this ranting on MTBR is gonna solve these issues? Whats the purpose of these threads anyway? Whats it gonna solve? Has it solved certain issues in the past? Im sure just about everyone on this board already knows this, so again...whats the point??
    Man, I agree with you on the complaining part. That's for sure. However, this thread was started not as an avenue for complainers to vent, but to request information for the city of Colorado Springs. It's a totally relevant thread to the original poster's role.
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  33. #33
    Almost Human
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    Quote Originally Posted by hullendersauce
    Question(s):
    So, all this ranting on MTBR is gonna solve these issues? Whats the purpose of these threads anyway? Whats it gonna solve? Has it solved certain issues in the past? Im sure just about everyone on this board already knows this, so again...whats the point??

    Just want to make sure everyone realizes I'm with county parks, not city. I provided an email link where you can voice your concerns to the city. Please be polite, it goes a lot further when you treat everyone with respect.

    I was notified a week or two ago that this would be occurring and wanted to give everyone the opportunity to voice their concerns, as the info only seems to be available on a "hiking" oriented website. I couldn't find it on the city website.

    I think the end result will be better enforcement of existing ordinances. They just need to know where the problem areas are. Bike riders probably know that better than anyone else since we cover so much ground.

    UT

  34. #34
    Bianchimtb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle

    UncleTrail, my official input to the request for feedback regarding off leash dogs in Colorado Springs is that I do not see it as a significant enough problem at this point to extend park resources (people, time, and money) to more heavily enforce it. If there is a problem, I'd prefer more trails to be built to lighten the user density, therefor reducing encounters between off-leash and trail users, than see more restrictions regarding dogs and trail users.

    I think this is a good idea.
    Whatever hurts you, can only make you stronger

  35. #35
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    <snip>
    Skardshtlss broke an ankle because of an unleashed dog. He could've filed charges, I later found out.


    I did?


  36. #36
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    I have a blue tooth leash for my dog so he's actually on a leash but you can't see it. What I need is a leash for your sister. That **** keeps wandering off and wrappin' her legs around every dude, ( some chicks, and 3 animals) she can find. And your out of beer at your mom's house.
    Somebody better get me a stamp...I'm gonna send it

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles


    I did?


    Propaganda, eh???

    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  38. #38
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    It seems most, not all agree. A dog on a leash is a good solution in the forest.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hullendersauce
    Question(s):
    So, all this ranting on MTBR is gonna solve these issues? Whats the purpose of these threads anyway? Whats it gonna solve? Has it solved certain issues in the past? Im sure just about everyone on this board already knows this, so again...whats the point??
    Thread count

    Here we can ***** and complain.... Out there I just ride and drink.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles


    I did?

    I thought you broke it. I thought it was bone-head dog that made you go through the rough section.... Perhaps it wasn't that and just clumsy riding skilz (Like I have )

  41. #41
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    I agree with the guy who said if your afraid of a dog, you don't belong in the forest. Maybe bowling is your thing.

  42. #42
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    I thought you broke it. I thought it was bone-head dog that made you go through the rough section.... Perhaps it wasn't that and just clumsy riding skilz (Like I have )
    Yeah... I was hauling too much a$$. I didn't even see the dog. It was that damn big rock that stopped my front tire that was to blame. And my lack of mad skilz.

    And I "only" sprained the ankle. Although I still don't have full range of motion in it.

  43. #43
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    I hate to be the fly in the ointment....................but

    This is one of MANY issues which is just symptomatic of a HUMAN BEING problem.
    That problem is one of stupidity and ignorance.

    MANY people (in this case pet owners) just do not have the ability or skill to handle an animal on a leash, let alone off leash.
    Pets are looking to their Ďparentsí to give them guidance on how they are to act.
    Frankly, some Ďparentsí are woefully inadequate at their task.

    Dogs need to be trained and taught how they can behave (in general and on a trail)
    This is a minimum that will allow them opportunity to participate on the trail.
    Now the wildcard is that they still may behave in a socially unacceptable manner; which the owners should be held accountable for.
    So you take the risk every time you choose to bring your animal on the trail.

    Now National Forest IS the place to unleash your dogs, and frankly if you ride these areas, you just have to be prepared for that prospect.
    I have had more issues with unleashed hiker dogs, than I have with biker dogs in that scenario however.
    Unless things are different in other parts of Colorado, there are leash laws in effect at virtually ALL of the multi use trail areas that I know of.

    Now, as an owner of 3 (not particularly small) dogs, I would love to be able to ride with my dogs off leash.
    In practice however this pretty much never happens.
    Why, because I recognize my inability to verbally control 250lbs of dogs while riding my bike.
    There is potential for me to take one of the three (the female of course), but even then I would have to be very focused, as you never know what could happen.
    It might not even be my dog causing the problem (other dog, person, wild animal, terrain, etc), but if she were to get injured, ultimately it WOULD be my fault, right.
    (my dog is looking to me to keep her safe and protected, so am I doing that to the best of my ability??)

    the reality is that it takes an EXTREMELY well disciplined dog and owner to make that happen on a multi use trail with any significant traffic.
    truth is that most people have neither the time or desire to make that happen.

    However, I have witnessed some impressive rider/dog teams that have convinced me that there is room for dogs with the right temperament and training.

    large aggressive male dogs who still have their balls intact are not generally good candidates (or meek and arrogant owners with no clue on how to train a dog in the first place).
    also, people who are completely self absorbed asshats in the regular world are generally bad candidates for that type of training too.

    So here in lies the rub; you cannot legislate intelligence or respect.
    In fact, I would argue that Ďlegalí means are generally ineffective at enforcing quick change without extremely painful dynamic processes becoming mandatory.
    The point is we want to solve the issue before the city and county have to get involved.
    When that happens, it pretty much sucks for all involved.

    In the same breath, putting your hands on somebody or their dog is CERTAINLY not the answer either. (even if my dog made an obvious indiscretion to a fellow trail user, I would have a serious problem with that user causing any harm to my animal).
    Itís great to talk tough and all on the internet, but I think a lot of you would be surprised at how capable of beating your ass the average American couch potato really is.

    so in light of the facts, maybe a grassroots effort of NICELY informing and educating people would be in order.
    I propose PEER SHAMING
    Yes thatís right, good old high school self esteem degradation.
    People need to raise awareness so that users police THEMSELVES.
    Once this happens, then any problems arising will be addressed in a civil manner at the point of conflict.
    Does it make you want to choke the life out of someone when they behave like a self centered jerk?
    It probably won't do any good to get into a physical confrontation then at that point either.
    A cool head and persuasive argument may not change the paradigm of the trail offender, it might just make them think twice about risking social estrangement of their peers.
    Ultimately, you really can only do that.
    Unless of course you want the legal system involved, and then all bets are off.

    I mean really, all those people wear those stupid yellow bracelets, why not make the new trendy/cool thing be : to act like a human being.
    Maybe, just maybe, that behavior will go from the trail and out into the world!!!!

    Yeah, never mind that was a stupid thought.
    But I still think riders have the right to a safe trail experience, and dogs (ones with responsible owners that is) should be allowed off leash in specified areas (read National Forest)
    As bikers, we do not have the monopoly on trail use, but we often get the ass end of the regulations.
    Letís take some legitimate action before it cost us more than we have already lost.
    Just because Dick Cheney is a penis, doesn't mean we have to be.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsalty
    Now National Forest IS the place to unleash your dogs, and frankly if you ride these areas, you just have to be prepared for that prospect.
    This has been my position on this subject for years.

    Glad to see you finally warmed - up to the idea.

    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

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