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  1. #1
    Old, Slow and now FAT! :)
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    Santa Cruz Tallboy?

    Who rides a Santa Cruz Tallboy here?

    Do you like it and have you ever wished for more travel?

    Backstory: I'm finally in a position to get a new trail bike. I would like to keep around $5k but can go higher (say 6-7k) for the right bike.

    Most of my regular riding is at night on Marshall Mesa over to Springbrook so it is a lot of XC type trails. However I also wanted something more trail worthy for the rock fest we can have higher up. In mileage terms I would say my riding is 70% XC, 20% trail (whatever that means) and 10% AM.

    I weren't sure if a 29er was my thing and I was holding out for a 650b trail bike but I must say the 29ers do fit me well and I am not wanting to wait for Fall to see how the 1st gen 650b trail bikes stack up.

    So I was looking at the Tallboy LT carbon at Sports Garage and they are talking me down to the regular Tallboy Carbon stating it would be better for my general riding style and terrain.

    So if you have a regular Tallboy have you ever wished for more travel or is the 135mm LTc overkill for my generally XC type riding. I will be test riding both.

    And before you ask I don't want a separate hard tail for XC and a trail bike for gnar. I've had that before and I could never decide on the bike to take when the trails were a bit of everything.

    I want one bike. One bike to rule them all!


  2. #2
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    I demo'd the TalboyLTc and don't think you should let someone talk you out of it without trying for yourself. I did one fire road ride with it and one trip up Bergen. I never once thought I needed something less travel to improve efficency and the extra beef was welcome when it was needed. The bike was really comfotable and pedaled great. Ultimately, I bought another 26", but I have nothing but positive things to say about the LTc.

  3. #3
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    My buddy rides a Tallboy and loves it. We live at the base of Apex and ride pretty hard on the "rock fest" that is out our back doors. Given that 80-90% of his riding is on those more techy/ rocky trails, he has definitely wished he had an LTc, but if his riding were more balanced your way, I think he would be more than happy. Again, he loves his bike, but has sometimes be craving a little more cush. Also, fwiw, he's had to replace the grease fittings and the lower sway bar a couple of times. I think SC bikes are awesome, but putting grease fittings on the bottom of the bottom bracket is just poor design.

  4. #4
    Old, Slow and now FAT! :)
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    Regarding the grease fittings that is one plus of the TBLTc over the TBc. The frame, from what I read, is beefed up and the grease fittings are now recessed.

    I changed my Demo this weekend to the TBLTc. If I have time I will also check out other bikes at the GBS demo on Sunday.

  5. #5
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    Anyone on the front range or in Winter Park RENT TB's?

  6. #6
    Living the High Life
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    I was looking at 29ers earlier this year and thought the Tall Boy was too XC only for me. I like a slacker head angle and a 5" bike appealed to me more than a 4". So that left the Blur TRC. Not as aggressive as a 6" enduro style bike but will handle that and serious XC rides, but it was a 26" So I went with a Specialized Stumpy 29er. Then 3 months later SC comes out with the Tall Boy LT. Both have 135mm travel, same head angle, etc.

    I like the 5" 29er since it is not a full on XC bike. For me the only real difference is FSR vs VPP.

  7. #7
    Old, Slow and now FAT! :)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockpot2001 View Post
    Anyone on the front range or in Winter Park RENT TB's?
    Well I don't know about "rent" but Sports Garage will let you "demo" the Tallboy for a $100 a day (or over the weekend).

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post
    <snip>

    Backstory: I'm finally in a position to get a new trail bike. I would like to keep around $5k but can go higher (say 6-7k) for the right bike.
    Is this you?




  9. #9
    Kaj
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    As a guy who recently rode a 100mm 29er for 2 years, and now is on a 130mm 29er, I definitely like the 130 better. I put some more $$ into the 130mm bike and they weigh the same. In your price range you can get the weight to be very similar too, it's just a matter of what you like.

    so it's a riding style question. You're coming off an old bike, so a couple test rides would be in order particularly if you are going to keep this one as long as your current bike
    Kona Wo for Fat Biking, Ibis HD3 for Trail Shredding, Merckx Road bike for collecting dust

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockpot2001 View Post
    Anyone on the front range or in Winter Park RENT TB's?

    Doesn't GBS have demos?

    If I were to seriously consider a 29er again (which I doubt), the TB would hard to beat. Try a LT Blur and the Tallboy back to back up Chimney and down Apex from GBS.

    I ultimately ended up with a standard Blur XCc. It only has 4" of travel, and find it's more than enough to satisfy my cross country diet.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    Well, you have a point, but I'll throw in here:

    It's easier than it has ever been to spend more than $5K on a mountain bike. Especially if you're going to do something speshul. Used to be a very good fork was 4-500 bones. Now it's dead easy to spend close to a grand on just a fork.

    I'm counting pennies on bike stuff these days now that I've left the bike shop world. But if I was going to throw down coin to replace what I'm riding now, it would be super easy to spend 5-6K.

    In case anybody out there wants to make my simple dream come true:

    LenzSport Mammoth
    Fox Talas 34 29er fork
    Full XT 3-ring group
    hand built wheelset on a new pair of DT 240s hubs

    PM me with info about when and where I can pick it up, and there will be a really nice case of beer in it for you. And a heart felt thank you.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  12. #12
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    It's also really easy to get a great bike for less than $3K too. Just ask Kaj.

  13. #13
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    As TomP states it is very easy to exceed $5k these days. In fact I originaly though that $5K would be plenty but I have kind of been horrified at the price of bikes these days. Just when did $1000 for a fork and $2600 for a frame become the norm?

    Still my last bike probably cost around $3-4k in mid 90's money and I've had that bike near 15 years so I got my money's worth out of it. This bike will probably be with me for 10+ years as well so there are some things I don't want to compromize on. It has to be reasonable weight, so looking at carbon, repairable - carbon again, Shimano XT with XTR rear mech, decent wheelset and a non single pivot rear suspension (looking at DW-link, VPP etc). I want components that should stand the test of time and not make me feel like I need to upgrade them a couple of years down the road. I have money now. In a couple or years I may not.

    It seems the bikes I'm most interested are slipping over that $5k mark...Santa Cruz, Intense, Pivot...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    It's also really easy to get a great bike for less than $3K too. Just ask Kaj.
    Guess I could get the Kona Satori and put a set of blingy wheels on it with the change

  15. #15
    Old, Slow and now FAT! :)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj View Post
    You're coming off an old bike, so a couple test rides would be in order particularly if you are going to keep this one as long as your current bike
    If my history is anything to go by probably until the day I die...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post
    Still my last bike probably cost around $3-4k in mid 90's money
    $3500 in 1995 = $5277 in 2012.

    So yeah - bikes really haven't gotten all that expensive relatively speaking... it's just that $$ are worth a lot less.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    It's also really easy to get a great bike for less than $3K too. Just ask Kaj.
    Quite true. I'm on a bike I'm very happy with that could be put together for around 3K more or less. Hard to say though 'cuz I'm running parts that have gone from bike to bike. Brakes and levers are three bikes old (2009 I think?) Hone cranks that have been on three bikes, wheels from early 2010, one hub from 2007, XTR pedals from 2007...

    But there is some pricey stuff out there that is totally worth it, if you have it to spare. Depends lots on what you like to do and what you can afford. How many hobbies do you have? How many kids do you have? How many payments do you have? Is riding your life, or is it just one of several distractions?

    I can think of a handful of production bikes available now that are reasonable price that I'm sure I'd be totally happy with. But I don't have kids, and it's pretty much my main thing. If you asked me, "what's money for?" the answer would certainly include bikes. If I was going to replace my bike right now, I would dig deep for quality. Because it's worth it to me.

    And my opinions about what's worth it and what is not is a little different from some. For example, I run cheap stems and seatposts. I think paying mega bucks for thomson stuff is silly. Even if I was putting together a $6000 bike I probably wouldn't be paying more than $40 or so for a seatpost. But I likes me King bottom bracket, DT rear hub and XTR pedals.

    kerryn, you may be right about rear suspension that's fancier than single pivot, but that hasn't been true for me. The full suspension bikes I've enjoyed most in the last 6 years were modified single pivots, aka faux bar bikes. I had a four bar (horst link) that I did NOT like. I am interested in the maestro (Giant), but there are downsides to multi-pivot bikes.

    Ride as many as you can.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post
    Guess I could get the Kona Satori and put a set of blingy wheels on it with the change

    ^^^^ this ^^^^
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  19. #19
    Bad Andy!
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    kerryn, I have been trying to talk my friend/acquaintance THE GIANT into coming out from lurk mode, and getting a handle to start posting, if nothing else, just to help you here. But doesn't look like that's happening, so I will speak for him.
    He Tried a Tall Boy and LIKED it a lot, but not enough to buy, then tried a Tall Boy LT (not carbon) and LOVED it a lot. Sprang for it, and you can't get the guy off a bike now.
    I am probably screwing the story up some how, but that's the jist.

    On another note, I just added up all the MTBs I have had in my life, and they total $4398.
    (6 MTBs in 22 years) -
    In 1990 - bught a Raleigh - $399
    In 1991 - bought a Haro - $699
    In 1995ish - bought a used GT Zaskar - $400
    In 2001 - bought a Specialized - $1200
    In 2002 - bought a Specialized (crash replacement - long story - shop did me a favor, not an actual crash) - $700
    2009 - bought a Mongoose - $1000

    Man, it sucks being poor.

  20. #20
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIANTkiller View Post
    <snip>
    On another note, I just added up all the MTBs I have had in my life, and they total $4398.
    (6 MTBs in 22 years) -
    In 1990 - bught a Raleigh - $399
    In 1991 - bought a Haro - $699
    In 1995ish - bought a used GT Zaskar - $400
    In 2001 - bought a Specialized - $1200
    In 2002 - bought a Specialized (crash replacement - long story - shop did me a favor, not an actual crash) - $700
    2009 - boughth a Mongoose - $1000

    Man, it sucks being poor.
    Hey - I like this game.

    1991 - Giant ATX-760 - $500
    1996 - Trek Y-22 (used) - $1200
    2001 - Giant XtC-Team (used) - $500 (net after insurance claim on Trek)
    2010 - Giant Reign 1 - $2600

    $4800 total for 21 years of quality rides. And in the end - it's *all* about the rides...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIANTkiller View Post
    On another note, I just added up all the MTBs I have had in my life, and they total $4398.
    (6 MTBs in 22 years) ...
    Couple years ago I compiled a list of my lifetime of bikes, starting in 1968 or so. Since then every time a new one comes along, I've updated my list:

    Bikes I have owned

    I currently still own #22, #26, #28, and #30. (Note, if you look at this list, 2007 was the year I got divorced. There was a bit of a bike buying spike that year...)

    Quote Originally Posted by GIANTkiller View Post
    ...Man, it sucks being poor.
    Go to work for a bike shop. You'll experience levels of poverty and wealth that you could never imagine.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Go to work for a bike shop. You'll experience levels of poverty and wealth that you could never imagine.
    LOL! Thanks for SBFL, by the way. I had a good time.
    baker

  23. #23
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    My $0.02...go however big you need to to make yourself happy in the next decade.5 of riding you'll do. If it's a $6-7k TBLTc, then so be it! And if any of these guys offer to subsidize your purchase, then I'd listen to their suggestion to talk you out of what you want. Until they do (especially SS), I'd tell them to get stuffed, because it's you who'll ultimately be living w/ your purchase. I think they're just jealous that you can and they can't.

  24. #24
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    K,
    My $0.02...go however big you need to to make yourself happy in the next decade.5 of riding you'll do. If it's a $6-7k TBLTc, then so be it! And if any of these guys offer to subsidize your purchase, then I'd listen to their suggestion to talk you out of what you want. Until they do (especially SS), I'd tell them to get stuffed, because it's you who'll ultimately be living w/ your purchase. I think they're just jealous that you can and they can't.
    You damned childless single guys.

  25. #25
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    5k, ha, that's nothing! Especially when compared to the cost of a cardiologist!!! =)

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velosprocket View Post
    5k, ha, that's nothing! Especially when compared to the cost of a cardiologist!!! =)
    ExAAACtly!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velosprocket View Post
    5k, ha, that's nothing! Especially when compared to the cost of a cardiologist!!! =)
    "Like"

  28. #28
    how heavy are you ??
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    Go to work for a bike shop. You'll experience levels of poverty and wealth that you could never imagine.[/QUOTE]
    Exactly!


    Sent from my DROID SPYDER using Tapatalk 2
    What does Marsellus Wallace look like, A BIT*H?

  29. #29
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    ExAAACtly!
    Wait until you price out the orthopedic surgeon.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    Wait until you price out the orthopedic surgeon.
    For sciatica? You don't need no stinkin' surgeon for no sciatica?! just a good chiro and a massage therapist who'd walk on your back! That lady I went to in Golden stomped me righteously!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    For sciatica? You don't need no stinkin' surgeon for no sciatica?! just a good chiro and a massage therapist who'd walk on your back! That lady I went to in Golden stomped me righteously!
    I was actually referring to your inevitable spectacular crash.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    I was actually referring to your inevitable spectacular crash.
    Almost...
    That sciatica attack was instantaneous when I was in the air attempting a scrub move on Bootcamp on Trestle.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    Wait until you price out the orthopedic surgeon.
    Good point! I have the solution. Buy the Tallboy, and just keep on the Platte bike path. Stay out of the dirt, less to clean and maintain that way too

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velosprocket View Post
    Good point! I have the solution. Buy the Tallboy, and just keep on the Platte bike path. Stay out of the dirt, less to clean and maintain that way too
    Screw that. Those bike paths are WAY more dangerous than the trail. Buncha damn unpredictable bipedal apes on those bike paths...

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    Buncha damn unpredictable bipedal apes on those bike paths...
    ...or those 6'2" spider monkeys

  36. #36
    Old, Slow and now FAT! :)
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    Oh my, how threads drift off track on this forum. Amusing but off track...

  37. #37
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    As an FYI, after riding the Tallboy LTc this weekend I determined it's not the bike for me. Good bike yes, but ultimately I didn't like the wagon wheel feel of it. It felt like I was steering a bus.

    It gripped well, was a demon downhill (I got at 2nd overall time on one downhill Strava segment and PRs on other downhill segments) but on undulating terrain and uphills it was only so so. I felt the weight of the wheels slowing me down, and ultimately it just wasn't that much "fun". Also, and this was surprising for me, but I have never had so many pedal strikes in my life and that put a downer on the ride feel.

    Things I did like were the suspension. Hugely impressed with the VPP at the back. Now I should probably compare it against a DW-link like and that of the Yeti SB66... Also I did like the rollover of the big wheels. I rode up some stuff I usually just walk so I do see advantage in a wheel bigger than 26 but not quite as big as 29.

    So, I still think a 650b trail bike will be my ultimate ride (4.5-5 inch being the sweet spot). One thing I did notice is that my current Boulder Starship while 15 years old, when compared to state of the art moden trail bikes, still rides superbly for such an old design. Yes not as efficient as the VPP, but not that bad either.

    So under my new consideration are: Santa Cruz TRc and the Intense Carbine. Both of these bikes can run 26er now and be converted to 650b later on. Alas, 650b won't fit on the Yeti. The wise thing would be to just wait till Fall but I am not sure I want to.
    Last edited by TheNormsk; 07-09-2012 at 03:06 PM.

  38. #38
    Kaj
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post
    So under my new consideration are: Santa Cruz TRc and the Intense Carbine. Both of these bikes can run 26er now and be converted to 650b later on. Alas, 650b won't fit on the Yeti. The wise thing would be to just wait till Fall but I am not sure I want to.
    Don't forget the Ibis Mojo HD -- fully 650b compatible in the 140mm config.

    there's a review coming from MTBR shortly on the bike. Here's the one about the wheels on the bike:

    ENVE Twenty7.5 (650B) AM Review | Mountain Bike Review
    Kona Wo for Fat Biking, Ibis HD3 for Trail Shredding, Merckx Road bike for collecting dust

  39. #39
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    Not all 29ers feel like wagon wheels

    FWIW, not all 29er ride the same. I have ridden some where it felt like I was on top of a horse- waaaaay up above the ground and I felt how you describe. However, I have also ridden, owned, demoed and borrowed several others that don't have that feel. I would recommend trying a few others out before you limit yourself to 650b's- there are so many more options out there for 29ers- not just bikes, but wheels, tires, forks, etc- and more of those bikes are designed around the 29" wheel- where with some that you're talking about, the frame/ geometry is built around a 26" wheel and you're talking about throwing a different wheel on there, which will change a lot of how the bike rides/ was designed to ride. Try a regular Tallboy, or a Turner, or a Stumpjumper, or any number of other 29ers that might not have you feeling like you're riding a circus bike...

    just my .02.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj View Post
    Don't forget the Ibis Mojo HD -- fully 650b compatible in the 140mm config.
    But the Mojo HD is so ugly!

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    FWIW, not all 29er ride the same.
    I like a lot about the TBLTc, just not the wheels. I think if it had a quality carbon wheelset with lighter (more XCer) rubber I would like it more. But then it would be $2k more as well.

    I weighed the rear wheel and it weighed over 1.1 lbs more than the rear on my Starship. That's a significant amount of rotating mass. I weighed the bike and compared it against the Starship. It weighed 2+lbs more. I'm guessing that all that weight is in the wheels and that the frame and components is comparable to my current bike even though it has 2-3 inches more travel on each wheel.

    Admittedly I have not ridden to many 29ers but so far the one I liked the most was a single-speed hard-tail. That one was fun.

    I wish the GBS demo was not canceled. I was planning on attending that to get some multiple bike trail time in to get a better feel of what I like. I hope they can reschedule soon.

    I've come to the conclusion that I don't like shopping for bikes. I would just rather ride them.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post

    I wish the GBS demo was not canceled. I was planning on attending that to get some multiple bike trail time in to get a better feel of what I like. I hope they can reschedule soon.

    I've come to the conclusion that I don't like shopping for bikes. I would just rather ride them.
    I think it's back on, check their FB page.

    Nice conclusions on the 29er. I also think the TB is creme of the crop in 29er handling, the S-works HT / Epic is also nice. But ultimately, I love my new Blur XCc. The 26" wheel is lighter, accelerates faster, and it will ALWAYS be that way. So I have to lift the wheel slightly higher to clear a few rocks.

    I compared the 29ers I demo'd to a dump truck, bus is just as good!

    I'm looking forward to throwing a 650b wheelset on the Blur, I'm also thinking about trying them on the Leadville 50.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    FWIW, not all 29er ride the same. I have ridden some where it felt like I was on top of a horse- waaaaay up above the ground and I felt how you describe. However, I have also ridden, owned, demoed and borrowed several others that don't have that feel. I would recommend trying a few others out before you limit yourself to 650b's- there are so many more options out there for 29ers- not just bikes, but wheels, tires, forks, etc- and more of those bikes are designed around the 29" wheel- where with some that you're talking about, the frame/ geometry is built around a 26" wheel and you're talking about throwing a different wheel on there, which will change a lot of how the bike rides/ was designed to ride. Try a regular Tallboy, or a Turner, or a Stumpjumper, or any number of other 29ers that might not have you feeling like you're riding a circus bike...

    just my .02.
    New Turner Burner 650B just around the corner...

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post
    But the Mojo HD is so ugly!
    Hmmm... kerryn perhaps?




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    Quote Originally Posted by lanruss View Post
    New Turner Burner 650B just around the corner...
    I've been eyeing that. My problem is that I'm getting impatient and most of the new 650b bikes will not be out until Fall sometime. I don't want to wait! Still I've waited 15 years for a new mountain bike, what's another few months?






    An ETERNITY!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    Hmmm... kerryn perhaps?
    Yo girlie man, if I spent $5-7K on a bike without a motor, I wouldn't want it to be ugly either.


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    650b the TRc sounds like a solid plan! I've been reading a lot about the bennies of "b"-ing the TRc, and no drawbacks!

    I can't wait to "b" my Blur LTc! A slight short shocking to drop the BB...oh yeah!

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    Wait for the fall offerings. Scott genius coming out with expenisive weight weenie carbon trail bikes that might suit perfectly. Genius 27er and 29er.
    The marketeers are really pimpin the 27er movement these days. No one is going to miss out on sales by being slow to the pony show like w/ 29ers.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    It's also really easy to get a great bike for less than $3K too. Just ask Kaj.
    Ibis Mojo SL Special Blend Build Bike > Complete Bikes > All-Mountain & Trail Mountain Bikes | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop

    carbon to boot

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    KerryN, I know of a large TRc for sale. Can't PM you as I don't have enough posts. Contact me if you're interested in details.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velosprocket View Post
    I think it's back on, check their FB page.
    Thanks for that! Wednesday afternoon is a bit inconvenient but I will try to work my work schedule around it..

    One thing, it should be a quieter demo than on a Sunday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    Hmmm... kerryn perhaps?



    No I'm not a tart on a bike! I just like understated elegance and clean and simple lines . No flashy, make me want to puke graphics (yes I'm looking at you Pivot, Trek, Specialized), no ungainly looking suspension systems and ideally a clean flow from the top tube to the chain stays.

    I know.... I'm picky.

    Here's an example of a clean looking bike


    Intense Carbine running 650b
    Last edited by TheNormsk; 07-09-2012 at 11:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post
    No I'm not a tart on a bike! I just like understated elegance and clean and simple lines . No flashy, make me want to puke graphics (yes I'm looking at you Pivot, Trek, Specialized), no ungainly looking suspension systems and ideally a clean flow from the top tube to the chain stays.

    I know.... I'm picky.

    Here's an example of a clean looking bike


    Intense Carbine running 650b
    Dude, you're preaching to the most aesthetically immune person I've ever known!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Dude, you're preaching to the most aesthetically immune person I've ever known!
    Here's a picture of an aesthetically pleasing look for a mountain bike:



    Hard to see from this angle, but the bike is utterly filthy. It had just been ridden and pushed through a torrential monsoon downpour. Wore away a month's worth of brake pads in one 5 minute slop descent.

    Purty, ain't it?
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Here's a picture of an aesthetically pleasing look for a mountain bike:

    Awesome

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Dude, you're preaching to the most aesthetically immune person I've ever known!

    Performance coupled with value. I could give a $hit what it looks like. It's all about the ride, man... not about the bike.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    Performance coupled with value. I could give a $hit what it looks like. It's all about the ride, man... not about the bike.

    And yet, we still do laps about first the coil for the Reign, then the benefits of increase of its travel. Your ride quality IS influenced by the bike...I know, it's blasphemy, but you know it's true

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    At least someone in that pic cares about bike quality
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    And yet, we still do laps about first the coil for the Reign, then the benefits of increase of its travel. Your ride quality IS influenced by the bike...I know, it's blasphemy, but you know it's true
    Yeah - but none of that really has anything to do with how the bike looks. I mean... it's electric blue for Christ's sake. Who in their right mind would buy an electric blue bike unless they really didn't give a $hit?

    Good value and quality aren't mutually exclusive with bikes...

  60. #60
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    Support your local bike builders! Sure I had Santa Cruz' (2 of them) and they are nice bikes,
    but these guys are in your own backyard. And I live in California. But If I had to get a SC TB I'd get the LT version.

    If I had your budget, I'd get a LunchBox with (another local) White Bros. 140mm Loop!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    Yeah - but none of that really has anything to do with how the bike looks. I mean... it's electric blue for Christ's sake. Who in their right mind would buy an electric blue bike unless they really didn't give a $hit?

    Good value and quality aren't mutually exclusive with bikes...
    The hell you say! Electric blue is ded sexay!

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    The hell you say! Electric blue is ded sexay!
    There's no accountin' for taste... I personally think it's fugly.

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    I think that Lunchbox is a bit extreme for my riding.

    So I read today that Intense will officially announce the 27.5 versions of the Tracer and Intense at the Dealer Demo later this month. That puts the Intense on my shopping list. The SC TRc is still there as well but I have renewed concerns about 'b'ing this.

    A 29er may still be an option in the shape of a Turner Sultan Exp (though I would probably prefer the Burner but it may not be available in time). Perhaps a Spot 5?

    The Yeti SB66 carbon looks interesting and is local.. An Ibis Mojo HD with 650b wheels? Or a Pivot Mach5.7 carbon?

    I'll be at the GBS demo tomorrow and I'll see what that does to my thoughts on this.

    Any others I should try that veer towards the cross country side of the longer travel "trail" bike?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post
    The Yeti SB66 carbon looks interesting and is local.
    FWIW, after demoing the TBLTc, I demoed and bought an SB66. It's a really fun bike. I got the aluminum race-build version and it's definitely no lightweight, but I really like it.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post

    I'll be at the GBS demo tomorrow and I'll see what that does to my thoughts on this.

    Any others I should try that veer towards the cross country side of the longer travel "trail" bike?
    I'm heavily biased for sure, but if you are looking at 100-120 XC/Trail bikes then you should also ride the Niner JET9 RDO (100mm rear) and RIP9 (117mm rear) 29er bikes.

    My JET9 RDO pictured below is set up more Colorado Front Range "trail bike" with a 120 front/100 rear 1x10 and a Weirwolf 2.5 up front. I can ride this bike as hard and fast (if not faster) as my 135mm WFO9 and it smokes going uphill at 25 pounds. Sounds like your riding style is kind of like mine and a 100mm-120mm rear would suit you really well. Ride lots of bikes today though!

    Aaron, Brad and Chris (aka little Fuzzy) will be driving down from our Niner Fort Collins office around 3 for the GBS demo. Stop in and say hi!

    Brett
    Niner Bikes
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post
    I think that Lunchbox is a bit extreme for my riding.

    So I read today that Intense will officially announce the 27.5 versions of the Tracer and Intense at the Dealer Demo later this month. That puts the Intense on my shopping list. The SC TRc is still there as well but I have renewed concerns about 'b'ing this.

    A 29er may still be an option in the shape of a Turner Sultan Exp (though I would probably prefer the Burner but it may not be available in time). Perhaps a Spot 5?

    The Yeti SB66 carbon looks interesting and is local.. An Ibis Mojo HD with 650b wheels? Or a Pivot Mach5.7 carbon?

    I'll be at the GBS demo tomorrow and I'll see what that does to my thoughts on this.

    Any others I should try that veer towards the cross country side of the longer travel "trail" bike?
    I have a Sultan and absolutely love it. My understanding is that the 650B wheels work nicely with both the Sultan and the 5-Spot (there's a thread somewhere on the Turner page). Would love to try the Burner when it comes out, but NO MORE BIKES for me.

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    I am only here to add to the confusion...more new bikes here in 29er thread:
    The 2013 29er news thread

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    Well I didn't get to test ride all the bikes I wanted as Rawhide kicked my butt and I ran out of time. I did get to test the Niner RDO, Turner 5.Spot and (for curiosity sakes) a Niner SIR9.

    The RDO was by far the fastest bike of the bunch but the large was a little too big for me making the front end seem a little too light and the front wheel keen to wash out on the gravel. Climbing improved substantially with the Talas dropped to 95mm. I found getting the bike up and over the logged steps (up to 1 foot in height) easy. However the bike was poorly set up with poor brakes, skipping drive train, and creaking and vibrations through the cranks that would drive you mad and that put a downer on the enjoyment factor.

    The Turner 5.Spot was the most fun in the downhills. This bike just eats the Rawhide trail when the incline goes down. I found going uphill more difficult. Even with propedal the rear if very active and bobs a lot. Also found the step-ups that the RDO managed with ease would hang up on the 5.Spot. Perhaps there is a pro to the 29er sized wheel afterall. The brakes were lousy on this bike as well as an FYI.

    I took the SIR9 out as it was getting close to the end of the Demo time and the bike was there. I'd been wondering how much hill climbing efficiency I may be losing with suspension over a hard-tail. Well on smooth single track this thing is FUN! However as soon as it got rough I remembered why I dumped hard-tails 15 years ago. Also, the revelation is that this bike climbed no better (for my tired legs atleast) than the full suspension RDO (or even the Tallboy LTc) from the previous week.

    I was hoping to try an Intense at the demo but I didn't see one.

    Things I learned was that I still prefer:
    - modern suspension trumps hard-tail for climbing
    - triples over dual chainrings
    - XT over X9
    - my '99 Hope Hydos over any current brake out there (except the XTR on the SIR9 which was awesome) and
    - that Talas rules! I love the ability to drop the front end and tighten up the feel of the bike. Though I still don't know my next bike I am 90% sure it will have a Talas on it...

    Talking to the GBS guys about my riding and the feedback on the bikes I rode I am still getting recommendations that I should probably go for a regular Tallboy......


    Hmmmm.

  69. #69
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    You'll get used to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post
    ... Perhaps there is a pro to the 29er sized wheel afterall...
    I'm totally sold on 29, and that's my bias. I accept the flak that I inevitably take for that.

    The wagon wheel feeling is an initial reaction. Of course it will be heightened if the bike is slack up front. With the 29" wheel you see a bunch of wheel out in front of you. If the HT angle is slack, it's even further out front. Bigwheel bikes are just longer. The length from the leading edge of the front tire to the trailing edge of the back is significantly longer (obviously), but on a slack AM/FR style bike it's more so. My Stump 29 felt huge to me, my Tomac is much more XC and it just feels normal.

    And also of course the wheels and tires are heavier. They are just going to be. I'm totally used to that too. I ride big chunky rubber on big 29" hoops. My wheels are heavy. Doesn't feel funny to me at all, feels normal.

    So you get used to it. I find that when I jump on a 26 the lack of front wheel out there feels funny, kind of a vulnerability. Kind of like jumping into a little car with a radically sloping hood when you're used to driving around in a pickup truck. Feels like you're looking right at the road. I find the little wheels skitterish when cornering and I totally notice how they catch in every gap and on every log or rock. After 8 years riding a big wheel I find the handling of a 26 bike spooky.

    But, but you will get used to whatever.

    I think bigwheels work for bigger people because the proportions are more correct. If you're a little too small to fit a Large, IMHO you are right there in the middle. Plenty big to fit a 29" wheeled bike, but small enough that proportionally the 26 wheels will work plenty fine too. As I say, both wheel sizes (or 650b) will work, you'll get used to whatever.

    OK, now it's time for KC to post his "29ers, they're magically ridiculous" image.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    I'm totally sold on 29, and that's my bias. I accept the flak that I inevitably take for that.

    The wagon wheel feeling is an initial reaction. Of course it will be heightened if the bike is slack up front. With the 29" wheel you see a bunch of wheel out in front of you. If the HT angle is slack, it's even further out front. Bigwheel bikes are just longer. The length from the leading edge of the front tire to the trailing edge of the back is significantly longer (obviously), but on a slack AM/FR style bike it's more so. My Stump 29 felt huge to me, my Tomac is much more XC and it just feels normal.

    And also of course the wheels and tires are heavier. They are just going to be. I'm totally used to that too. I ride big chunky rubber on big 29" hoops. My wheels are heavy. Doesn't feel funny to me at all, feels normal.

    So you get used to it. I find that when I jump on a 26 the lack of front wheel out there feels funny, kind of a vulnerability. Kind of like jumping into a little car with a radically sloping hood when you're used to driving around in a pickup truck. Feels like you're looking right at the road. I find the little wheels skitterish when cornering and I totally notice how they catch in every gap and on every log or rock. After 8 years riding a big wheel I find the handling of a 26 bike spooky.

    But, but you will get used to whatever.

    I think bigwheels work for bigger people because the proportions are more correct. If you're a little too small to fit a Large, IMHO you are right there in the middle. Plenty big to fit a 29" wheeled bike, but small enough that proportionally the 26 wheels will work plenty fine too. As I say, both wheel sizes (or 650b) will work, you'll get used to whatever.

    OK, now it's time for KC to post his "29ers, they're magically ridiculous" image.
    For someone who rides big-travel bikes, the abundance of rubber out front/in your line of sight and the lazy turning characteristics of the big wheels really becomes a non-factor. This could be why when I demo'd the TBLTc I didn't noticed everyone else's gripe about the slow turning feel. Once you've figured out how to lean/muscle a big travel bike, turning a 29er becomes easy! I would even say one helps the other and back to the original to emphasize leaning the bike and not just steer the bike. Before the recent rains, leaning was about the only safe way to get a bike to change direction at Trestle's scratch moon dust.

  71. #71
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    I must say that I am beginning to lean towards the TBLTc again. On the downhills this thing is just a rocket sled and I agree that I'll "learn to ride it". After the demo yesterday, I realized that this bike felt perfectly sized for me and rode everything that I want to ride well. The pedal striking I was suffering may have just been a consequence of the suspension being set too soft on the rear (that would also slacken the bike, slowing its steering) as the BB height is the same as my current bike and I don't strike on that.

    Unfortunately in the build kit price you only get the Fox 34 140 Float. I would prefer the Talas with 140/110. I think the 110 would tighen this bike on the XC and climb better (though that would lower the BB as well). A set of Chinese carbon hoops would probably help with the "big wheel" syndrome as well.

    I still think that if I went with the regular TB that I would be questioning if I should have gone with more travel. While the TB is fine for my regular weekday loops, when I get to the rougher stuff (White Ranch/Apex for example) I'm going to be regretting not going big.

    Perhaps I'll have to go custom build...




    Edit: It's my 42nd birthday today. I'm getting an ichy finger and I'm tempted to pull the trigger. Plus I'm getting old and long travel soft suspension sounds nice to my stiff old back muscles

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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post
    I must say that I am beginning to lean towards the TBLTc again. On the downhills this thing is just a rocket sled and I agree that I'll "learn to ride it". After the demo yesterday, I realized that this bike felt perfectly sized for me and rode everything thing that I want to ride well. The pedal striking I was suffering may have just been a consequence of the suspension being set too soft as the BB height is the same as my current bike and I don't strike on that.

    Unfortunately in the build kit price you only get the Fox 34 140 Float. I would prefer the Talas with 140/110. I think the 110 would tighen this bike on the XC and climb better (though that would lower the BB as well). A set of Chinese carbon hoops would probably help with the "big wheel" syndrome as well.

    Perhaps I'll have to go custom build...
    KerryN,
    I'm in the process of collecting bits for my TBLTc. I refuse to ride Fox anymore. Also, good luck on getting a kit w/ a Fox fork at the moment.
    For fork, I'm looking at a Marz 44 Micro Ti Air 29er (2012). I had the 55 Micro Air Ti on my Nomad, and it's an UNBELIEVABLY supple fork (even compared to a coil!), once it breaks in. But, no ext travel adjust.
    The rear shock, I'm thinking X-Fusion Vector HLR. I've heard nothing but good about X-Fusion. For me, I'd just need to figure out coil or air. AND, if you put a 2.25" stroke shock on (2.0 stock), at least on the XL TBLTc, you can get zero interference (per NoahColorado) and a bump in travel to just shy of 6"

  73. #73
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    Swap.

    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post
    ...Unfortunately in the build kit price you only get the Fox 34 140 Float. I would prefer the Talas with 140/110...
    Check with the shop you work with to see if they'll do an OK deal with you to swap the Float for a Talas. Unless there are other things about the basic spec you don't like, it'll hit your wallet hard to start with a bare frame. As long as the TB build kit fork doesn't come with a pre-cut steerer, a shop that does a decent amount of retail sales would probably be willing to put the Float into inventory. They might give you a medium price for the trade in and charge retail for the Talas, but that could still be cheaper than going ala carte on the whole bike. Or you could just have them install a Talas and take the Float to sell it yourself on the interwebs.

    What drivetrain comes with the standard build? I've been running x.9 9-speed for half a decade now. It's been totally bomber, never had any complaints, but I hear that the x.9 10-speed is disappointing (sounds like you were not impressed in your demo), and that 10 speed shimano is sweet...

    I'd run the wheels it comes with for a while until you know that you want some fancy super-light replacements. I think you'll get used to it and it won't seem like a big deal to you after a couple months.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    ... if you put a 2.25" stroke shock on (2.0 stock), at least on the XL TBLTc, you can get zero interference (per NoahColorado) and a bump in travel to just shy of 6" ...
    That would probably put the un-sagged BB height a little higher, which kerryn might like.

    I still like Fox stuff personally. Only problem I ever had with Fox stuff was the Triad on my stump 29 which was...

    Well, if you can't say anything nice, don't say that it sucked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    That would probably put the un-sagged BB height a little higher, which kerryn might like.

    I still like Fox stuff personally. Only problem I ever had with Fox stuff was the Triad on my stump 29 which was...

    Well, if you can't say anything nice, don't say that it sucked.
    I don't think I said anything directly about Fox sucking...but yeah, you can infer

    As for the BB thing... it won't change anything...same i2i length. It's strange that the 7.875 i2i length has two "typical" stroke lengths. And, I'm kinda leaning towards a coil.

    KerryN, the thing w/ the carbon rims I linked you is because I'm building from frame up. If you're getting a build kit, I'd ride the piss outta what you get before making changes.

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    Here ya go...SS' wet dream


  77. #77
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    Yeah. Sack up you buncha nancies...

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    Just wanted to add
    If you are riding a 29err and it handles like a church van with 10 unbuckled childrens,
    shorten the stem and widen the bars a tad, you may be surprised.

    Also,
    Kerryn, send a PM to Kaj and take the Satori for a spin.
    you owe it to yourself
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR View Post
    Just wanted to add
    If you are riding a 29err and it handles like a church van with 10 unbuckled childrens,
    shorten the stem and widen the bars a tad, you may be surprised.

    Doesn't make the wheels lighter. It's all personal preference. I like 26", other people like 29". Ride what you like, smile, and have fun.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velosprocket View Post
    Doesn't make the wheels lighter. It's all personal preference. I like 26", other people like 29". Ride what you like, smile, and have fun.
    Oh geez,
    My comment applies to all wheel sizes.
    Enjoy
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velosprocket View Post
    Doesn't make the wheels lighter.
    Wow!?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR View Post
    Oh geez,
    My comment applies to all wheel sizes.
    Enjoy
    Sorry, I thought you started your sentence with "If you're riding a 29er". Either way, you're right, a shorter stem will change the handling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velosprocket View Post
    ...you're right, a shorter stem will change the handling.
    I retract my "Wow!?!"

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    Well I took my Starship out for a quick spin last night. I had a great time and I felt quick (got three more Strava PRs) and blew away the times the TBLTc got.

    However there were still segments that the LTc just rode better. Overall I think the LTc is a great bike and will ultimately be faster than my Starship with the right wheels/tires.

    I'm seriously contemplating having two wheel sets for this bike. The stock one with bigger rubber for high mountain abuse and a lighter XC wheel set with light weight rubber and a closer ratio 11-32 cassette for efficient spinning. I would start with the stock wheels first and decide on the racier XC wheels later on but my hope would be to shed nearly 2lbs from the wheels.

    As a platform I have nothing but praise for the LTc. I think different wheels would synch it for me.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post
    No I'm not a tart on a bike!

    I'm not so sure about that. You look rather tartish to me.


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    Hey I'm hand sawing through a tree to clear SSV. Tart or no tart, that counts for something right?

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    tape measure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Velosprocket View Post
    ... you're right, a shorter stem will change the handling.
    As an input to kerryn:

    Sounds like you're a tossup between M and L for the Tallboy. Now is a really good time to take a hard look at sizing so that if you decide you want to be using a short-ish stem, you can do that and have as close to an optimal fit as possible. Sometimes people decide their stem has to be shorter, so they do that then have to move their saddles back in order to get the cockpit length they want. Then they de-tune the setback from saddle to crank center which has an impact on comfort and pedaling power.

    Since you have a bike that you've been riding for 15 years that you obviously have been reasonably pleased with, get measurements. Functional measurements:

    Distance from your saddle to your grips. If you tinker with stem length, bar length, sweep, etc the position of the GRIPS will be altered. Shorter stem and a bar with more sweep will have a combined effect in bringing the grips back away from the front of the bike, but with increased length comes a tiny bit of a longer reach.

    Height of saddle measured from Crank Center.

    Setback of saddle from Crank Center (a carpenters laser level is really convenient for this). Realize that when you get a longer travel full suspension bike, there will be more sag, which will affect this setback a bit. Some people say that the sag of the longer travel fork will offset it, but I find that the back of my bike sags more than the fork when my pressures are set properly, but that may be because of my fat arse.

    I have talked to so many people that got new bikes, and their old bikes were completely dismantled or sold off before they had a chance to even check out how this perfectly fitting old friend measured out.

    Do it. Tape measure. Carpenters level or at least plumb bob.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    As an input to kerryn:

    Sounds like you're a tossup between M and L for the Tallboy. Now is a really good time to take a hard look at sizing so that if you decide you want to be using a short-ish stem, you can do that and have as close to an optimal fit as possible. Sometimes people decide their stem has to be shorter, so they do that then have to move their saddles back in order to get the cockpit length they want. Then they de-tune the setback from saddle to crank center which has an impact on comfort and pedaling power.

    Since you have a bike that you've been riding for 15 years that you obviously have been reasonably pleased with, get measurements. Functional measurements:

    Distance from your saddle to your grips. If you tinker with stem length, bar length, sweep, etc the position of the GRIPS will be altered. Shorter stem and a bar with more sweep will have a combined effect in bringing the grips back away from the front of the bike, but with increased length comes a tiny bit of a longer reach.

    Height of saddle measured from Crank Center.

    Setback of saddle from Crank Center (a carpenters laser level is really convenient for this). Realize that when you get a longer travel full suspension bike, there will be more sag, which will affect this setback a bit. Some people say that the sag of the longer travel fork will offset it, but I find that the back of my bike sags more than the fork when my pressures are set properly, but that may be because of my fat arse.

    I have talked to so many people that got new bikes, and their old bikes were completely dismantled or sold off before they had a chance to even check out how this perfectly fitting old friend measured out.

    Do it. Tape measure. Carpenters level or at least plumb bob.
    I actually did some of this while I had the TBLTc. My Starship was designed as a XC racer back in the day so it feels a tad stretched but with that said:

    (I test rode a large TBLTc)
    BB height: The same (13.4")
    Stem: TBLTc 70mm, Starship 100mm.
    Seatpost: TBLTc straight, Starship - setback
    Bars: TBLTc: Easton Haven 711mm, Starship: Easton XC90 Monkeylite (610mm)
    Top tube length: TBLTc 24.1in, Starship 23in. But my measuring of center of saddle to bars indicated that my Starship was an inch longer in reach (with the seat pushed all the way back on the TB). I'm considering that an 80mm stem may be needed for the TB as it felt a tad small in reach - but I wouldn't go larger than a large.

    I spent some time toying with the idea of getting the TRc frame as it is that inch longer in the top tube and putting 650b wheels on it but I decided not in the end as I don't like the idea of voiding the warranty of a very expensive frame.

    The good new is that I am keeping the old bike as is and will be converting it back into XC racer mode for a laugh (flat bar, bar ends, skinny light tires - for a bit of retro nostagia).

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post
    Well I took my Starship out for a quick spin last night. I had a great time and I felt quick (got three more Strava PRs) and blew away the times the TBLTc got.

    As a platform I have nothing but praise for the LTc. I think different wheels would synch it for me.
    I think there is a lot to be said for the Tallboy line, even though I personally have no plans to buy one. You sound like you have similar tastes in riding as my husband and I - we ride MM a lot owing to proximity. We are both long time XC racers and both came into it from being road racers. We ride a good bit up in the high country as well, and also take on the rougher stuff, but it's not our main focus.

    It took me over ten years to finally get comfortable enough with the way full suspension rides to even consider a dually for XC racing. My 2008 Trance X was my first dually, and I quickly sold it as being too lackadaisical, heavy and not focussed enough for the riding I do. I got an Anthem X instead and haven't looked back.

    Along the way I have variously test ridden, demoed, loanered and borrowed a laundry list of various duallys in various trim/spec and riding intent, going all the way back to the mid 90s, that is too extensive to list here. This includes the time a Norco factory team guy was hitting on me at Interbike and convinced me to do a bunch of DH runs on his race rig... you want to talk about driving a bus, that thing was like trying to arm wrestle a semi. I quickly learned why most serious DH riders sport nice guns and a six-pack!

    I demo'ed a SC Tallboy a month ago, and it was an eye opener. The bike did not even fit me, honestly - I'm 5'4" and the smallest they have is a medium. I rode the entirety of the Heil / PR trail network and the 3 hours I spent on that bike was a revelation. One that I am still reaping the benefits of in confidence and improved skill on my 26er. Let me see if I can explain. Part of it was confidence of being able to just ride stuff regardless (you may not have an issue with this), and part of it was learning some more advanced cornering skills.

    It took me about ten minutes to figure out how to "english" the 29er wheels/longer wb into and through tight corners. Once I got that, everything else was a plus. The technique is one that is not very different from setting up countersteer thru a fast hairpin while descending on a roadbike, or getting thru loose gravelly tight switchbacks on a cyclocross course. Maybe it's just the bigger hoops, I dunno. But once I "got" the flip/lean/whatever to turning it, I was set. I don't know why I never managed to figure this out on my various 26ers throughout the years, but maybe I've just put enough miles on this year for it to finally click. Whatever, riding the bigger wheels/wheelbase really showed me where my line and cornering was deficient/sloppy and I'd just been basically cheating my way thru tight turns on the 26er without using any finesse.

    My husband (probably after getting sick of hearing me go on about my life-changing 29er ride) tried out a teammate's 29er out on Marshall Mesa last week. Arguably not a good demo - it is MM afterall, and again the bike was too big for him (he rides a M, friend had a L), and it was a hardtail to boot. He came away saying that we would both be on 29ers by the beginning of next race season, full stop.

    Yes I noticed on the Tallboy, as you did, that the front end felt a bit kitey going uphill, but there again - the bike was too big for me. It didn't matter to me anyway since I could just barrel over stuff. And I think that was the major thing for me - I felt like it was both easier to go fast, and less chancey to just bomb thru things on the 29er. I didn't have to slow up / weave my way around things. The added momentum just lends so much confidence. It was arguably the first time I ever felt "safe" just killing it on a downhill through rocks and tech.

    I think the fact that you've spent 15 years riding the same bike may be lending itself a bit to your overall impressions, though - hell if I'd been riding any bike for 15 years it would feel incredibly strange to change it up at this point. But, you know, times and riding styles change. Fifteen years ago, I was racing a Klein Team Attitude 21 pound hardtail in the Midwest, with a 2" travel Indy, V-brakes, and a straight-up harsh geometry that was closer to my crit racing bike than any modern MTB. I am a far, far faster and more technically accomplished (and brave) racer on my 25 pound dually than I ever was on that beast.

    I hated dual suspension so much that I fought it for a long time; now I wish maybe I hadn't. I'm not going to make the same mistake twice by resisting the switch to a 29er. But then we are all different, this is all subjective stuff and if you don't like the feel of the 29er platform, then you just don't. I have friends who still swear by their 26er hardtails, too.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonefrontranger View Post
    I think the fact that you've spent 15 years riding the same bike may be lending itself a bit to your overall impressions, though - hell if I'd been riding any bike for 15 years it would feel incredibly strange to change it up at this point. But, you know, times and riding styles change. Fifteen years ago, I was racing a Klein Team Attitude 21 pound hardtail in the Midwest, with a 2" travel Indy, V-brakes, and a straight-up harsh geometry that was closer to my crit racing bike than any modern MTB. I am a far, far faster and more technically accomplished (and brave) racer on my 25 pound dually than I ever was on that beast.
    Times certainly have changed and I swear today riders are wimpier

    Back before my Starship I had a money-no-object Kona Titanium Hei Hei. It had Shimano M900 XTR transmission and canti-brakes, Cooks RSR cranks (the prettiest cranks I have ever owned), Ti bars, Syncros post and stem, and a super light weight wheel set and other trick bits. Oh and all bolts were Ti. The bike weighed 21 lbs (yes I am a self confessed weight weenie) and had the best British fork you could get at the time (a 63mm travel carbon fiber Pace fork). I would ride trails on this that people today would want a 30lb "all mountain" machine for. When I wanted to down hill race or ride in the French Pyrenees I took out my huge travel (2.5 inches !) Proflex Animal

    Today I still have the 17 year old Shimano M900 XTR rear derailleur on my Starship. It is the last component that I still use from the original Hei Hei build. Only now is the XTR finally on its last legs and it is time to upgrade my entire transmission to something newer so that is really driving the decision to just move to a whole new bike; a time for a paradigm shift for me.

    I am still wrestling with putting down the dough for the BTLTc and perhaps buying a dedicated XC wheel set for it (still probably a cheaper solution than investing in a set of do-it-all carbon hoops) or just waiting and seeing how the 650b selection shakes out. Personally I think the 650b trail bikes will need a year or two to truly shake out where has 29er is pretty much established these days with better wheel/rim/tire selections. Also being 5'11" lend my size to that of a large 29er.

    On Saturday I will make the decision to either proceed with purchase or wait till the 2013 bikes come out....

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonefrontranger View Post
    I think there is a lot to be said for the Tallboy line, even though I personally have no plans to buy one. You sound like you have similar tastes in riding as my husband and I - we ride MM a lot owing to proximity. We are both long time XC racers and both came into it from being road racers. We ride a good bit up in the high country as well, and also take on the rougher stuff, but it's not our main focus.

    It took me over ten years to finally get comfortable enough with the way full suspension rides to even consider a dually for XC racing. My 2008 Trance X was my first dually, and I quickly sold it as being too lackadaisical, heavy and not focussed enough for the riding I do. I got an Anthem X instead and haven't looked back.

    Along the way I have variously test ridden, demoed, loanered and borrowed a laundry list of various duallys in various trim/spec and riding intent, going all the way back to the mid 90s, that is too extensive to list here. This includes the time a Norco factory team guy was hitting on me at Interbike and convinced me to do a bunch of DH runs on his race rig... you want to talk about driving a bus, that thing was like trying to arm wrestle a semi. I quickly learned why most serious DH riders sport nice guns and a six-pack!

    I demo'ed a SC Tallboy a month ago, and it was an eye opener. The bike did not even fit me, honestly - I'm 5'4" and the smallest they have is a medium. I rode the entirety of the Heil / PR trail network and the 3 hours I spent on that bike was a revelation. One that I am still reaping the benefits of in confidence and improved skill on my 26er. Let me see if I can explain. Part of it was confidence of being able to just ride stuff regardless (you may not have an issue with this), and part of it was learning some more advanced cornering skills.

    It took me about ten minutes to figure out how to "english" the 29er wheels/longer wb into and through tight corners. Once I got that, everything else was a plus. The technique is one that is not very different from setting up countersteer thru a fast hairpin while descending on a roadbike, or getting thru loose gravelly tight switchbacks on a cyclocross course. Maybe it's just the bigger hoops, I dunno. But once I "got" the flip/lean/whatever to turning it, I was set. I don't know why I never managed to figure this out on my various 26ers throughout the years, but maybe I've just put enough miles on this year for it to finally click. Whatever, riding the bigger wheels/wheelbase really showed me where my line and cornering was deficient/sloppy and I'd just been basically cheating my way thru tight turns on the 26er without using any finesse.

    My husband (probably after getting sick of hearing me go on about my life-changing 29er ride) tried out a teammate's 29er out on Marshall Mesa last week. Arguably not a good demo - it is MM afterall, and again the bike was too big for him (he rides a M, friend had a L), and it was a hardtail to boot. He came away saying that we would both be on 29ers by the beginning of next race season, full stop.

    Yes I noticed on the Tallboy, as you did, that the front end felt a bit kitey going uphill, but there again - the bike was too big for me. It didn't matter to me anyway since I could just barrel over stuff. And I think that was the major thing for me - I felt like it was both easier to go fast, and less chancey to just bomb thru things on the 29er. I didn't have to slow up / weave my way around things. The added momentum just lends so much confidence. It was arguably the first time I ever felt "safe" just killing it on a downhill through rocks and tech.

    I think the fact that you've spent 15 years riding the same bike may be lending itself a bit to your overall impressions, though - hell if I'd been riding any bike for 15 years it would feel incredibly strange to change it up at this point. But, you know, times and riding styles change. Fifteen years ago, I was racing a Klein Team Attitude 21 pound hardtail in the Midwest, with a 2" travel Indy, V-brakes, and a straight-up harsh geometry that was closer to my crit racing bike than any modern MTB. I am a far, far faster and more technically accomplished (and brave) racer on my 25 pound dually than I ever was on that beast.

    I hated dual suspension so much that I fought it for a long time; now I wish maybe I hadn't. I'm not going to make the same mistake twice by resisting the switch to a 29er. But then we are all different, this is all subjective stuff and if you don't like the feel of the 29er platform, then you just don't. I have friends who still swear by their 26er hardtails, too.
    Holy crap. This might be the most thoughtful, reflective, intelligent, and sincere contribution I've ever witnessed on these boards. Thank you. Thank you thank you.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    Holy crap. This might be the most thoughtful, reflective, intelligent, and sincere contribution I've ever witnessed on these boards. Thank you.
    the Colorado front range forum interwebs gods must be crazy.

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    Kerryn you mentioned something about an amazing ride on a single speed curious to hear more about this? What bike, geometry? this might be noteworthy in guiding your new selection.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    Holy crap. This might be the most thoughtful, reflective, intelligent, and sincere contribution I've ever witnessed on these boards. Thank you. Thank you thank you.
    Agreed - except, this part:
    Quote Originally Posted by lonefrontranger
    most serious DH riders sport nice guns and a six-pack

    I thought I knew quite a few serious DH riders, but I guess not - if that is part of the deal.

  95. #95
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    Dually?
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    Dually?
    oh no, here we go I think this thread is doomed. The interwebs gods have now cursed us.

  97. #97
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    This thread is becoming Homer's Odyssey?

  98. #98
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    Ordered. Now the wait.....

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post
    Ordered. Now the wait.....
    ???
    The TBLTc, pizza, your stamp collection?

  100. #100
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by GIANTkiller View Post
    Agreed - except, this part:


    I thought I knew quite a few serious DH riders, but I guess not - if that is part of the deal.
    The only ones I've ever seen without a shirt on have been legit pros.

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