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  1. #1
    Yappy little dog!
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    RR: Little Raven and SSV

    What started out as a easy casual ride at Golden Gate, quickly changed when Keith called and said he was convinced that an out and back on the newly improved Little Raven (thanks Boulder Mountain Bike Alliance) and then an all downhill ride on south Saint Vrain was the way to go. I said, I think you wanted an easy ride. So, Sunday we find ourselves at the Roosevelt National Forest.



    So, I have never ridden here and from the pictures I have seen I figured I was in for an eye opening experience. Not to be caught without the goods, I grabbed the Ventana for the squish value. Now I remember why I bought this bike.

    We started with a trip up and down Little Raven. For some this might seem easy, for me it was an experience.





    Although it started out smooth, it quickly turns into a rock garden strewn funfest very reminiscent of what I used to ride in the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania.









    I managed my way through a good portion of it, but it was a little easier coming down it.

    As if the rocks weren't enough, I met my most hated nemesis... The skinny bridge.



    Oddly enough I cleaned this on the way up, but had a terrible time on the way down. I call these my nemesis because, back on the east coast these things were all over the trails of the NJ Pine Barrens. The difference there is that they were always wet and slimy.

    At the top, we turned around and hammered down. Fun fun fun!

    Keith rocked the rocks!



    On the way over to South Saint Vrain, I stopped for a view.



    And now the super fun begins. I have to say that SSV was the most fun I have had on the trail since moving to Colorado. The smile never left my face the entire way down. Although I only cleared about 90% (the nasty part that goes straight down to the fire road was justly walked), I think this is just enough to bring out the kid in anyone. All I will say about the next few pictures is "way too much fun"!









    And this bike is what this trail is about! Finally a trail worthy of it's beef (that I can actually ride ).



    And lest there be any doubt that I do have some ability in my old bones...



    Yes, I am actually in a picture for a change. Notice the tongue action. I think it helps my balance.

    I was riding the best I have in a long time. Then it happened. I got a little too cocky and tried to go over this easy boulder.



    It was a little deceiving. I didn't realize the drop on the other side was bigger than I thought. A little too far forward and I went flying. The superman pose smack into the ground. Still, the smile never left my face.

    More rocky fun.



    And some skinny stuff.





    And finally some smart trail builders. LEAVE THE DAMN LOG OVERS! They are fun!



    Keith gets his groove on. This was much nastier than it looks.



    I am coming back here before the end of the season to catch it all on video!

    ---------------------------------------------
    Come on out and see Stifler's Mom this week. Thursday, August 23 at the Baker Street Pub in the DTC and Friday, August 24 at Greenfields in Lakewood.

  2. #2
    feel the Force
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    I rode this last week in the middle of a massive thunderstorm. Wet, slimy roots and rocks were a blast out of the past (Maine for me)!!! I ascended the road by the gate, instead of going up Little Raven.

  3. #3
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    Thank you for not calling it the "little raven freeride trail".
    ****

  4. #4
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Thank you for not calling it the "little raven freeride trail".
    Jason was just joking with you. While not a "freeride" trail in the true sense of the word, it certainly provides enough "fun" stuff to make those people happy on a close by front range trail.

  5. #5
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    Awesome ride. I wish I would have made it. Your ride was only twenty times nicer than mine. We need a shuttle of some sort to get us up that six-mile dirt road at Waterton without falling asleep from boredom.

    Good job with the pics as usual. They are always appreciated.

  6. #6
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    You let me know when Jason gets permission to start building things like this in the national forest, and I'll be there to help:

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  7. #7
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    Dear Mr. Renegade...

    Wait, that's a four foot wide, banked, super highway with a traction control mat at the bottom of the turn. The only thing missing is the double yellow line running down the center? You call that freeride? Dude, lots o' people can ride that. Paving it would have been cheaper. And the rider has shin guards on why?

    As the saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day. You have to start somewhere. Kudos to Jason and the rest of the folks at BMA for what they've been able to accomplish in a short period of time. What are you doing to make a difference?


    FRMBP.org - Paying it Forward
    Last edited by casey; 08-21-2007 at 07:49 AM.

  8. #8
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by casey
    Wait, that's a four foot wide, banked, super highway with a traction control mat at the bottom of the turn. The only thing missing is the double yellow line running down the center? You call that freeride? Dude, lots o' people can ride that. Paving it would have been cheaper. And the rider has shin guards on why?

    As the saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day. Kudos to Jason and the rest of the folks at BMA for what they've been able to accomplish in a short period of time. What are you doing to make a difference?


    FRMBP.org - Paying it Forward
    Well said! :thumbsup!

  9. #9
    Mojo0115
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    Well said! :thumbsup!
    Really?

    I thought it was either a very uninformed comment or deliberate troll baiting. I saw plenty of people walking that structure at keystone and I am happy to have my armor for the sections around it.

    But the idea of large keystone-like (read north shore) wooden structures on rides like those in the camp dick area is not appealing to me personally as it just doesn't seem right for the environment and the feel of the riding already in the area.

  10. #10
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by zzsean
    Really?

    I thought it was either a very uninformed comment or deliberate troll baiting. I saw plenty of people walking that structure at keystone and I am happy to have my armor for the sections around it.

    But the idea of large keystone-like (read north shore) wooden structures on rides like those in the camp dick area is not appealing to me personally as it just doesn't seem right for the environment and the feel of the riding already in the area.
    An opinion is just that, an opinion. I think the point is to keep the carpentry at the lift served insured resorts. Like it or not, the trails on public land are multi-use.

    The other point is that trails in general do not get built without YOUR help. There are plenty of complainers and plenty of people who enjoy the rides. The harsh reality is that for every 10 posters in this forum, 1 of you show up for trail work. You want to make it better? You want to add engineered structures? You have to show the land managers that your are willing to put in effort and show commitment. That means no more, "I'd love to help out that day but I have to take my dog to get groomed" or "well, I had plans to ride Mt. Falcon for the 200th time".

    You all have the perfect opportunity to do the above at this years Epic weekend in Buffalo Creek. From the list I see of those attending, there are still more outside of this forum then within. What else does it take to entice you to show up? Four stinking hours of trail work in exchange for more singletrack, free food, free booze, free swag, and free entertainment. I think that's a no brainer.

    Is this now a rant? Yes. And, it's not just here. This same thing goes on in every state. The same complaints and the same few people who actually try and make a difference. How about showing me that the riders in CO are different. You are so lucky to have what you do out here. The quantity and quality is on another level compared with the rest of the country. Come on out with me to NJ next month and I'll show you just what kind of paradise we have here. And while I am at it... What's with the people who have to find a slab of dirt to park their cars in because they are too cheap to pay the parking fee. Again, I'll show you what $10 a day gets you in a NJ state park, compared to the $5 in CO. Fork it out people. You are riding a $3000+ bike, you can afford the few bucks for parking.

    Sorry, but this sh!t gets my goat.

  11. #11
    Shattering Glass
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    2nd the Joisey thing.

  12. #12
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    Casey, I suggest you go to keystone and ride that ramp a couple times; it's steeper than it looks.
    Boy, some of you guys got your panties in a wad over my comments. I guess I should have used a few dozen emoticons to show you I was trying to be humorous.
    What I have given back to mtn. biking? Do I need to publicize my contributions here before they count in your eyes? I think not.
    ****

  13. #13
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Casey, I suggest you go to keystone and ride that ramp a couple times; it's steeper than it looks.
    I will not speak for Keith, but i have a feeling I know what he would say... Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Boy, some of you guys got your panties in a wad over my comments. I guess I should have used a few dozen emoticons to show you I was trying to be humorous.
    There are subjects that no emoticons can cover up. 99% of the time, people say what they really mean and figure they can use gestures and symbols to lighten the load. Your best bet would have been to say nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    What I have given back to mtn. biking? Do I need to publicize my contributions here before they count in your eyes? I think not.
    BINGO!!!!!! WHOOP! WHOOP! WHOOP!

    That is the number one response people give when asked to do trail work! Congratulations, you've just lumped yourself into the same boat as 99.9% of other mountain bikers who typically zoom by work teams on the trail. The other response is, "I've been doing some clean up work on my local trails".

    Actions may speak louder than words, so publicizing is not going to help anyway. Showing up and getting recognized for "doing" counts. But, certainly praising the work of other volunteers (no matter how far from a freeride trail it looks) goes a lot farther than makeing tongue-in-cheek comments.

  14. #14
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    Lordy Schnauzers, you sure are full of yourself. You've got everyone figured out. It must be lonely in that little fantasy world you live in.
    Enjoy yourself and your beliefs.
    ****

  15. #15
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Lordy Schnauzers, you sure are full of yourself. You've got everyone figured out. It must be lonely in that little fantasy world you live in.
    Enjoy yourself and your beliefs.

    Nope. Just been there before is all.

    See you at the Epic.

  16. #16
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    Agreed Renegade. Not gonna get into a pissing contest, but giving me a 0.1% chance of doing something good by virtue of lauding yourself (Schnuazer) into that 0.1% is wrong and a poor stereotype. Please, judge not and open your mind to other people, their abilities, and their actions.

  17. #17
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by zzsean
    But the idea of large keystone-like (read north shore) wooden structures on rides like those in the camp dick area is not appealing...
    You build it and I'll tear it down.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  18. #18
    enlightened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    From the list I see of those attending, there are still more outside of this forum then within.
    How do you know this for sure? Many of us use psedonyms.
    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    You are riding a $3000+ bike, you can afford the few bucks for parking.
    My bike was <3k, does this mean I can't afford to pay?
    Last edited by athalliah; 08-21-2007 at 02:39 PM.

  19. #19
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    When one is speaking from the height of the pulpit, often the view of reality is distorted.
    ****

  20. #20
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    .......
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    So new to CO and yet has all the answers.
    Jugdish, of whom do you speak?
    ****

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Jugdish, of whom do you speak?
    Not that I care, thus my edit but not you. The holier than thou posts just get to me. I'm out of this one though, sorry for sticking my head in.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  23. #23
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    Understood. For a minute there, I thought I had to have lived here MORE than 21 years before losing any newbie status.
    ****

  24. #24
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by athalliah
    How do you know this for sure? Many of us use psedonyms.
    Yes, but I know the majority of those that signed up by their real names.

    Quote Originally Posted by athalliah
    My bike was >3k, does this mean I can't afford to pay?
    Choose to do what you think is right. We all live by our own decisions. For me personally, I have no problem paying for what I feel is a good value. As I have told many before. I gladly buy the State Park Pass because I feel that Colorado has done a fantastic job with their state park system. Again, I am comparing this to where I came from.

  25. #25
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by rky_mtn_srfr
    Agreed Renegade. Not gonna get into a pissing contest, but giving me a 0.1% chance of doing something good by virtue of lauding yourself (Schnuazer) into that 0.1% is wrong and a poor stereotype. Please, judge not and open your mind to other people, their abilities, and their actions.
    Again. Opinions are just that. And for what it's worth, I don't put any weight into them and neither should you. I am just speaking from my personal experience. Whether I am 1 day, 1 year, or 100 years in this state, we have all encountered the same frustrations with land managers, trail building, and trail builders no matter where we are. I can assure you that the discussions here are no different than the ones in Pennsylvania or NJ. Only the names have been changed.

    I only think you should recognize people for the work they have done, especially when it is for all of our benefit. I did not help with Little Raven, but I know a few of the people that did. It would not have hurt to say "thank you" rather than "you call that freeride?". That's just rude no matter how many emoticons you put before or after it.

    And frankly, my personal praise is getting to ride what I built. I still say, "what a great piece of trail" every time I ride on the part of the CT I got to work on last year.

    *sigh*, this is going nowhere. I've gotta go. I finally have a house to buy.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    I only think you should recognize people for the work they have done, especially when it is for all of our benefit. I did not help with Little Raven, but I know a few of the people that did. It would not have hurt to say "thank you" rather than "you call that freeride?". That's just rude no matter how many emoticons you put before or after it.
    .
    Schnauzers, do you think that this is the only little raven thread at this website? I thanked the crew's efforts in the ORIGINAL thread started by Vogelman, and I brought up the name thing there as well. I think I have covered the
    THANK YOU
    part.
    So every summer, when you come up here to ride these trails west of the peak to peak highway, say a big thank you to me and dozens of other locals who haul in saws to remove downed trees blocking the trails, and work to repair the damage that each winter does. Sorry I don't do that in some organized, glorified fashion that meets your criteria.
    ****

  27. #27
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Schnauzers, do you think that this is the only little raven thread at this website? I thanked the crew's efforts in the ORIGINAL thread started by Vogelman, and I brought up the name thing there as well. I think I have covered the
    THANK YOU
    part.
    So every summer, when you come up here to ride these trails west of the peak to peak highway, say a big thank you to me and dozens of other locals who haul in saws to remove downed trees blocking the trails, and work to repair the damage that each winter does. Sorry I don't do that in some organized, glorified fashion that meets your criteria.
    Thank you. You have done a good job and I appreciate the effort.

    It doesn't have to be in an organized group. Just don't make other's efforts look bad by adding a "but". That's all. Hey, make sure you have permission from the land owner before making those cuts. Some get all bent out of shape depending upon what you do with the refuse.

  28. #28
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    We are the landowners. The stewards of that land if the forest service, who have enough going on that they don't have the resources to maintain the trails every year. I don't think they are too concerned about where I put the cut-out sections. Have you ever seen the mess the F.S. makes? At least I clean up after myself.
    ****

  29. #29
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    Renny, if it makes you feel better, I'll "borrow" Darren's RFX next time I'm visiting Larry (and give it to you). Maybe Darren is tired of it already. From what I remember, he was having a tough time staying on two wheels.

    Darren has me marked for these comments, I'm sure. I'll avoid PUSH HQ for a while.

  30. #30
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    Flyer, don't piss off Darren right now; he has my Roco, and I'd like him to do a nice job on it. I'd hate to find out he substituted mule piss for shock oil.
    ****

  31. #31
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    True- plus I need him to PUSH my shock this year so it's better to not bring up that RFX crash again.

    Darren, I love you man. I wuz just playin'. You are the best

  32. #32
    enlightened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    Yes, but I know the majority of those that signed up by their real names.
    I just think it is a little ostentatious to assume that you know everyoneís real name on this forum. While Iíve attempted (and failed) to retain some sense of anonymity on mtbr Ė you probably donít know each and every person that posts, trolls or otherwise views mtbr; be it casually or habitually. Additionally, I think it is rather presumptuous to think that if someone isnít at this weekend that they are failing the trails, fellow man, and all of Colorado. Kids are going back to school; some have had vacations booked in advanced, and hell some might not even have time this weekend. People give in ways that they can and sometimes it isnít through trail work. There are other ways to contribute to a functioning trail system other than volunteering for a work weekend. For example, the individual who donates to IMBA helps fund the Subaru/IMBA Trail Care Crew program. Those in attendance at these schools learn proper trail building technique and these skills are diffused form there. One can contribute locally by showing up to meetings to ensure mountain bikes have fair representation. Writing a letter to the Forest Service protesting trail closure will benefit both residents and visiting cylists. You get the point.

    To chastise an individual because they didnít show up for one weekend is ludicrous. Do you go to every trail building event, every meeting, every cycling-related volunteer opportunity? Doing so would be a full-time job. Itís easy for someone without kids, kids who have their own agenda, husband/wife, dog, aging parents, house with accompanying responsibilities, et cetera to show up without pause. Many others must consider the impact they have upon others when attending such a weekend, and if they don't care, well that's another rant entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    Choose to do what you think is right. We all live by our own decisions. For me personally, I have no problem paying for what I feel is a good value. As I have told many before. I gladly buy the State Park Pass because I feel that Colorado has done a fantastic job with their state park system. Again, I am comparing this to where I came from.
    I inversed the < here, I ment to say my bike is sub 3k. I was trying to figure out your logic based on an arbritarty price point on a mountain bike and how it correlates to a park fee, as I can also afford said fee but don't have such a spendy bike.

    Do you own a NJ parks pass? If they are in such a failing state, perhaps they could benefit from what you feel is a nominal fee.

    Just my unsolicited .02

  33. #33
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    Athalliah, you left out people who volunteer for mtn. bike patrols!
    ****

  34. #34
    Your retarded
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    I totally felt solicited by your .02.
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  35. #35
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    Upset Git

    Quote Originally Posted by casey
    Wait, that's a four foot wide, banked, super highway with a traction control mat at the bottom of the turn. The only thing missing is the double yellow line running down the center? You call that freeride? Dude, lots o' people can ride that. Paving it would have been cheaper. And the rider has shin guards on why?

    As the saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day. You have to start somewhere. Kudos to Jason and the rest of the folks at BMA for what they've been able to accomplish in a short period of time. What are you doing to make a difference?


    FRMBP.org - Paying it Forward
    That trail you are criticizing is extremely steep in other parts. Have you even ridden even flow? Even flow is way harder than little raven (I have ridden both of them). Little raven should not be called a "freeride trail" because it goes up and down. A true "freeride trail" is steep and is mostly downhill with jumps and drops.
    Nitwit, Oddment, Blubber, Tweak

    I bicycle better than I walk

  36. #36
    odo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    I suggest you go to keystone and ride that ramp a couple times
    Nitwit, Oddment, Blubber, Tweak

    I bicycle better than I walk

  37. #37
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    Focus peeps!

    I hate to step in the middle of a pissing match, but as I did help build this trail, I've got an opinion or two of my own...

    1) FREERIDE: one of the most ambiguous words in all of cycling, to some it is an attitude, to others the feeling you have when you ride a good trail and you're "on", it means North Shore features to some and exclusively downhill to others. If you think you have the only valid definition for this word, you haven't spoken with a wide swath of the mountain biking community.

    2) Calling the Little Raven Freeride: the trail is technical and makes you focus in a way that most trails never do. We've started developing optional 'technical lines' and done things that have never been done before legally on the front range to my knowledge. Furthermore, looking at the broader context of biking on the front range, this is the best stuff we've been able to convinve any land management agency to allow us to build. For most Front Range Riders, this trail will give them a sense of challenge and focus that few other front range trails provide. That was enough for me to decide I would call it freeride. Sorry if I stepped my foot on your definition of the word, but I think there is room for both interpretations.

    The trail kicks ass in any event and that's what I really care about. Enjoy the product and forget about what I called it. If the Little Raven doesn't put a smile on your face you seriously need to get laid.

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