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  1. #1
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    renegade trail building

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    What would happen if the forest service catches you building stunts? Is it allowed? Is there a restriction as to how high or not at all? How many of you are doing it?

    Just a bunch of silly questions.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by moment
    Search is down.

    What would happen if the forest service catches you building stunts? Is it allowed? Is there a restriction as to how high or not at all? How many of you are doing it?

    Just a bunch of silly questions.

    You don't want to build stunts (or trails) in National Forest - the costs are very steep for both those who get caught doing so and the MTB community as a whole (in terms of relations with the forest service / other user groups).

    Stunts are cool, but you can find other places to put them if you look long enough.
    Now with more vitriol!

  3. #3
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    I understand there would be steep costs for both. I just can't help walking throught the forest without thinking about how cool it would be to drop off a certain rock or ride on top of a downed tree. Lord knows it getts borring building mini stunts on my property. Plus my wife said no Dirt jumps in the backyard. Maybe I should look into volunteering with IMBA/ BMA. I'm starting to like building as much as riding.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by moment
    I understand there would be steep costs for both. I just can't help walking throught the forest without thinking about how cool it would be to drop off a certain rock or ride on top of a downed tree. Lord knows it getts borring building mini stunts on my property. Plus my wife said no Dirt jumps in the backyard. Maybe I should look into volunteering with IMBA/ BMA. I'm starting to like building as much as riding.

    I hear you - I love building just about anything, and I wasn't suggesting that there aren't places you can build, just that it would probably be a bad idea to build on forest land.
    Now with more vitriol!

  5. #5
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    Check out what these guys have to say about there trailbuilding:

    http://www.hickhucksters.com/bigtroublearticle.html

  6. #6
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    No good

    So your wife won't let you build on your property so you want to build in National Forest? Anyway, if anyone were doing it I'd guess it would be pretty damn ignorant to post it here.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by splitter_66
    Check out what these guys have to say about there trailbuilding:

    http://www.hickhucksters.com/bigtroublearticle.html
    Very good article. thanks for sharing.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=jugdish]So your wife won't let you build on your property so you want to build in National Forest?


    Just trying to make a funny. Ya know HA HA HA?!?!

    Think I'm gonna research the proper channels for builing a trail. Lord knows the IMBA has many links to resources on how and what to do.

  9. #9
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    The bottom line is don't build illegal trail, it's vandalism. The Forests have pretty loose guidelines for management and each are run almost as a little fiefdom in that respect. If you can get in good with your locals you may find them receptive to authorizing a well conceived trial. Or you may be hosed.

  10. #10
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    What forest and ranger district do you want to build in?

  11. #11
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    Ummmm...

    someone appears to be trying to keep open, some old (closed) sections of re-routed trails in Buff Creek (i.e. Green Mtn.). I didn't really care if they rode the old crappy sections except that now they are blocking the new sections off and it's annoying to have to move the logs.

    Not exactly stunts and such but I wonder what the FS will think of that in the long run. It's not exactly subtle.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    someone appears to be trying to keep open, some old (closed) sections of re-routed trails in Buff Creek (i.e. Green Mtn.). I didn't really care if they rode the old crappy sections except that now they are blocking the new sections off and it's annoying to have to move the logs.

    Not exactly stunts and such but I wonder what the FS will think of that in the long run. It's not exactly subtle.
    If the FS or authorized trail maint is placing the logs in the trail, they are trying to direct traffic to the preferred route. They, (FS), do close sections and reroute traffic from time to time.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by btadlock
    If the FS or authorized trail maint is placing the logs in the trail, they are trying to direct traffic to the preferred route. They, (FS), do close sections and reroute traffic from time to time.
    The sections I am talking about were re-routed with FS approval and presence last year as part of a Team Evergreen project to help maintain trails. They re-routed the trail where it was poorly designed and eroding badly and becoming a mess.

    What it looks like is that someone prefers the old trail and is pissed that the trail was re-routed and is making it look like the old trail is the correct path - it is not.

    By the way, I know of a couple of other sections with the same thing happening but they aren't as obvious.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    The sections I am talking about were re-routed with FS approval and presence last year as part of a Team Evergreen project to help maintain trails. They re-routed the trail where it was poorly designed and eroding badly and becoming a mess.

    What it looks like is that someone prefers the old trail and is pissed that the trail was re-routed and is making it look like the old trail is the correct path - it is not.

    By the way, I know of a couple of other sections with the same thing happening but they aren't as obvious.
    Ok, now I better understand, thanks for the clairity. Never thought that someone may move the barricades to open/close the sections that they feel are the best, heck, I probably have been riding some sections that are offically closed, cause I was following the open trails.
    BT
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    The sections I am talking about were re-routed with FS approval and presence last year as part of a Team Evergreen project to help maintain trails. They re-routed the trail where it was poorly designed and eroding badly and becoming a mess.

    What it looks like is that someone prefers the old trail and is pissed that the trail was re-routed and is making it look like the old trail is the correct path - it is not.

    By the way, I know of a couple of other sections with the same thing happening but they aren't as obvious.
    Why can't people just leave it alone? We dumped loads and loads of logs and rocks and such to make it perfectly obvious that the trail was being rerouted. Did they clear that entire reroute?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldozer
    Why can't people just leave it alone? We dumped loads and loads of logs and rocks and such to make it perfectly obvious that the trail was being rerouted. Did they clear that entire reroute?
    Yup, they cleared the entire re-route. Must have taken a lot of effort.

    So why would you insist on keeping the old crappy section open when the new, sweet, narrow, flowing singletrack is right there? Seems like a waste of emotional and physical energy to be so stubborn.

  17. #17
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    Man, that pisses me off. I've already sent an email to find out how we can go about fixing this. Thanks for the heads up.

  18. #18
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    a few bad a****les

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldozer
    Why can't people just leave it alone? We dumped loads and loads of logs and rocks and such to make it perfectly obvious that the trail was being rerouted. Did they clear that entire reroute?
    People get so weird about their trails. I don't know why people insist on re-opening POS routes that are closed, or building new trails that are poorly designed. But I've been watching it happen in CO for almost 20 years.

    Here's the thing: I've been involved in working within the system to do some new things on public land since Fall of '04 (federal and municipal so far). Things are really changing, mostly due to hard work being done by IMBA and some really really good local groups (like COPMOBA, Medecine Wheel, etc). The land managers are starting to open their minds.

    Most of the plans I've been working to make real are traditional XC, but the conversations that I've had with some really conservative land managers have blown my mind. We have some sickenly difficult downhill routes around here that have been thrown together in the dark of night. The land managers are actually willing to work with us to keep them open as long as we can resolve a few issues related to erosion.

    These land managers don't understand at all how someone can enjoy riding these routes, but they really want to see the dark-of-night trailbuilding stop. They are willing to have an open mind as long as it stops happening behind their backs. So, anything is possible in the future, including stunts and other semi-crazy stuff, as long as the chaos stops.

    STOP THE ILLEGAL TRAILBUILDING. JOIN IMBA. THE FUTURE LOOKS BRIGHT IF WE CAN PUT THE PAST BEHIND US!
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP
    People get so weird about their trails. I don't know why people insist on re-opening POS routes that are closed, or building new trails that are poorly designed. But I've been watching it happen in CO for almost 20 years.

    Here's the thing: I've been involved in working within the system to do some new things on public land since Fall of '04 (federal and municipal so far). Things are really changing, mostly due to hard work being done by IMBA and some really really good local groups (like COPMOBA, Medecine Wheel, etc). The land managers are starting to open their minds.

    Most of the plans I've been working to make real are traditional XC, but the conversations that I've had with some really conservative land managers have blown my mind. We have some sickenly difficult downhill routes around here that have been thrown together in the dark of night. The land managers are actually willing to work with us to keep them open as long as we can resolve a few issues related to erosion.

    These land managers don't understand at all how someone can enjoy riding these routes, but they really want to see the dark-of-night trailbuilding stop. They are willing to have an open mind as long as it stops happening behind their backs. So, anything is possible in the future, including stunts and other semi-crazy stuff, as long as the chaos stops.

    STOP THE ILLEGAL TRAILBUILDING. JOIN IMBA. THE FUTURE LOOKS BRIGHT IF WE CAN PUT THE PAST BEHIND US!



    In the past, I've paid some dues to the local org here and there, headed out to a trail day here and there, but I wasn't ever really involved.

    Until about 2 months ago. For a variety of reasons, I decided that it's time to jump into the fray to make a difference. Now I'm actively involved with BMA, and I've got to say things look amazingly positive compared to what it look like a few short years ago.

    If someone isn't involved with local use issues, the least they can do is keep from causing problems with the land managers! Puh-lease!


    As an aside, Tom, I'm headed to your area this weekend. How's things look? Any recommendations?
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

  20. #20
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    drying up FAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Debaser
    As an aside, Tom, I'm headed to your area this weekend. How's things look? Any recommendations?
    I am still healing a broken rib, so I haven't been getting up into it. Spending my bike time on the tarmac.

    But we've rounded the corner weather-wise. It isn't getting super cold overnight, sunny during the day, and today the chinook is blowing.

    I'd guess we're still a few weeks out for riding the local bits of the Rainbow. The Midland in BV is dry as a bone I'm sure. I'd guess that Raspberry Gulch is dry, but probably the CT will have snow in shady spots south of Raspberry Gulch, and north of Princeton.

    There's a nice dirt road up, jeep road down loop with half a mile of climbing that may have a little snow on it, but rideable for sure. We call it 175-173 (for the county road numbers) but it's in Nathan Ward's guidebook called Salida Singletrack as "The Lookout Loop". There is a singletrack option off of 173, but it's hidden and unmapped. If I can get away, I might show you that. I'm about ready to get back on the dirt anyway. Saturday I'll probably be building new singletrack (in daylight!), but Sunday I *might* be able to join you. That's a 3+ hour ride. A little less if you just do it as Nathan's book describes.

    There are also a few technical bits of singletrack close to town that are open for sure. Not on maps though--not officially recognized. Yet.

    When you going to be here?
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP
    I am still healing a broken rib, so I haven't been getting up into it. Spending my bike time on the tarmac.

    But we've rounded the corner weather-wise. It isn't getting super cold overnight, sunny during the day, and today the chinook is blowing.

    I'd guess we're still a few weeks out for riding the local bits of the Rainbow. The Midland in BV is dry as a bone I'm sure. I'd guess that Raspberry Gulch is dry, but probably the CT will have snow in shady spots south of Raspberry Gulch, and north of Princeton.

    There's a nice dirt road up, jeep road down loop with half a mile of climbing that may have a little snow on it, but rideable for sure. We call it 175-173 (for the county road numbers) but it's in Nathan Ward's guidebook called Salida Singletrack as "The Lookout Loop". There is a singletrack option off of 173, but it's hidden and unmapped. If I can get away, I might show you that. I'm about ready to get back on the dirt anyway. Saturday I'll probably be building new singletrack (in daylight!), but Sunday I *might* be able to join you. That's a 3+ hour ride. A little less if you just do it as Nathan's book describes.

    There are also a few technical bits of singletrack close to town that are open for sure. Not on maps though--not officially recognized. Yet.

    When you going to be here?
    Ouch on the rib.

    I've been on a bunch of stuff near town. I havn't been higher up than an hour and a half ride in the 173/175 area, but one of my travelling comanions has been higher up thataways. Do you think there's enough trail around Raspberry for a good ride? I've not been over there, but it sure looks like a good area from the highway.

    Tentatively, we're headed down Saturday morning. Probably hitting the Midland in the morning with the ladies, and then it's all up in the air. Except for pancakes Sunday morning, I'm told.

    Thanks for the help - and please pm me if you think you can get out.
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

  22. #22
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    okey dokey

    Quote Originally Posted by Debaser
    ...Do you think there's enough trail around Raspberry for a good ride? I've not been over there, but it sure looks like a good area from the highway.
    Oh, I don't know. Not really by my definition. That area has about a 3-mile peice of nice, easy singletrack, but it degrades into vicious hike-a-bikes at both ends. Descending from Raspberry Gulch down into the Chalk Creek bottom is a hoot, but climbing it is a tedious hike-a-bike. As you head south out of Raspberry Gulch you hit a big climb into tree cover. Hike-a-bike, and you're sure to hit snow after a bit of hiking. Even when it's clear and dry, that section to the south is burly, technical, demanding singletrack. All the Colo Trail in Chaffee County tends to that direction. Fun and challenging, but nothing for a novice, especially if it the novice is a girlfriend you'd rather not dump you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Debaser
    Tentatively, we're headed down Saturday morning. Probably hitting the Midland in the morning with the ladies, and then it's all up in the air. Except for pancakes Sunday morning, I'm told.

    Thanks for the help - and please pm me if you think you can get out.
    Friday would really be the best for me, but it sounds like that's not in your game plan. I like the sound of pancakes though. MMmmm. Pancakes.

    If my Sunday looks like it's clear sailing, I'll shoot you that PM.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    Yup, they cleared the entire re-route. Must have taken a lot of effort.

    So why would you insist on keeping the old crappy section open when the new, sweet, narrow, flowing singletrack is right there? Seems like a waste of emotional and physical energy to be so stubborn.
    UPDATE: A small amount of the reclamation had been moved on the low end of the re-route, about fifty yards. We spent about 30 minutes putting debris back in the old tread. Nothing else was disturbed. Compliments of TCSMBC.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldozer
    UPDATE: A small amount of the reclamation had been moved on the low end of the re-route, about fifty yards. We spent about 30 minutes putting debris back in the old tread. Nothing else was disturbed. Compliments of TCSMBC.
    Thanks man!

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