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  1. #1
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    Ppl w/ Pikes that feel mid-stroke is too spikey

    Been talking w/ Craig at Avy about my one main complaint w/ the Pike...mid-stroke being a bit too stiff which will make the super slow speed compression feel a bit too spikey. As result, on steep and techy climbs the front wheel will get bounced off-line really easy:
    Pike 2014 - Page 23

    Problem: the mid-stroke check spring is too stiff

    Solution (towards the bottom of the page): Pike Open Bath Cartridge Kit

    He also addressed a bunch of other things w/ the Pike w/ that kit...making HSC, LSC, mid-stroke, and HSR/LSR way more tuneable/adjustable.

    Looking fwd to dropping that kit into my Pike...let the tax refund be fruitful!
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  2. #2
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    Sure why not throw another $375 into a brand new fork? The valving kit on the other hand might be worth looking into. Price?

    I had an AVA cart a Boxxer RC for the last couple season. Great improvement over the RC or even R2C2/WC damper but that doesn't say much. I was really disappointment when I wanted to reshim the dampers and needed an AVA specific tool. Hopefully they did away with the propriety BS since a standard set of flats wouldn't seem to interfere with the design.

    Anyway, I'm off the Avalanche bandwagon and don't plan to return. My Dorado blows my Boxxer AVA to pieces.

  3. #3
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    $230 when it goes to DIY sale.

    I'm asking if he'd consider turning the full valve kit ala carte...like $130 per piston (compression and rebound/mid-valve). I primarily want the rebound/mid-valve. But, I may throw $375 at my Pike to get the full cart. The cart in my 888 was a BIG up compared to the stock port'd cartridge...and I DO use that anti-bottoming system every time I drop No Quarter and Beall...could feel the fork go into that last inch.
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  4. #4
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    Hey Paul, I've re-valved that fork already to remedy that! No need to spend that kind of money! PM me if you like, or mavericksuspension@gmail.com
    We also work on the rebound end as well to help "calm" the fork down a bit...!
    Maverick Suspension Inc.
    Servicing all Suspension
    Mavericksuspension.com

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan F View Post
    Hey Paul, I've re-valved that fork already to remedy that! No need to spend that kind of money! PM me if you like, or mavericksuspension@gmail.com
    We also work on the rebound end as well to help "calm" the fork down a bit...!
    Did you find another spring for the check shim on the back side of the rebound piston?
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  6. #6
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    The check spring is just fine, its the compression shim stack that make it a bit spikey!
    As well as the neg air system, but not much you can do about that!
    Once the comp shims are lightened up the low speed adjuster takes more effect for ride height, but eliminates the hand slappy feel it has.
    If it we're possible to increase the neg air side that would help, but no room!
    I add a shim or two to the rebound, this help with its over "rapid" recovery system!

    The damper is very adjustable and tuneable
    Maverick Suspension Inc.
    Servicing all Suspension
    Mavericksuspension.com

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan F View Post
    The check spring is just fine, its the compression shim stack that make it a bit spikey!

    As well as the neg air system, but not much you can do about that!
    Once the comp shims are lightened up the low speed adjuster takes more effect for ride height, but eliminates the hand slappy feel it has.
    I'm pretty okay w/ the HSC. Actually, I'd like to make it a toooouch stiffer on the high side of the HSC since I like to hop the bike around...3 or 4 ft w/o too much hesitation if I have a landing/runout. It's that super-LSC that's bugging me, and I'm thinking the solution is stacked thinner shims...MOAR SHIMZ...vs one thick one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan F View Post
    If it we're possible to increase the neg air side that would help, but no room!
    You need more topout support? Have you tried to air up the fork to 90psi, equalizing w/ the pulling trick, then drop the main chamber back down? Should make it so your fork won't ever extend that far into the(-) part w/o you having to pull, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan F View Post
    I add a shim or two to the rebound, this help with its over "rapid" recovery system!
    How many tokens and what kind of PSI are you running? IIRC, you could prob run w/ less tokens and slightly higher PSI to get the fork more linear. In my case I need more progression, so lower PSI w/ 3 tokens. With only 38 PSI (I need to up this a touch), "rapid" just isn't so rapid...not enough return energy...so the rebound is also just fine.
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  8. #8
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    This thread is the bomb. I'm about to put my first permanent Pike on a Mojo HDR for the season, going to be a fun year of tuning.
    Kona Wo for Fat Biking, Ibis HD3 for Trail Shredding, Merckx Road bike for collecting dust in garage

  9. #9
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    Suspension grease

    I'm not sure how much Slick Honey costs, but my guess is too much. So here...same shit, in bulk:

    Order Slickoleum Grease
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    I'm not sure how much Slick Honey costs, but my guess is too much. So here...same shit, in bulk:

    Order Slickoleum Grease
    Slick Honey isn't that much more and the tub lasts for years (thats with me rebuilding my 2 forks a few times a year and some friends fork)

    Honestly, I don't know if there is much difference, but my forks feel so much better with Slick honey than anything else I have tried..
    BBZ

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia View Post
    Slick Honey isn't that much more and the tub lasts for years (thats with me rebuilding my 2 forks a few times a year and some friends fork)

    Honestly, I don't know if there is much difference, but my forks feel so much better with Slick honey than anything else I have tried..
    Back in the 90's it was known as Englund's Slick Honey. Slickoleum is owned by Englund, LLC.

    Anyway, the reason why I tossed in that was Slickoleum is out of CSprings... Feed the locals!

    Altho, I'm not 100% if Slick Honey has been sold off to someone else or if Englund still has it.
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  12. #12
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    Oh c'mon... All I read is that the Pike is the end all, be all.

    And now it needs more money and tuning to make it work?

    BTW: I've got a massive tube of Manitou PrepM... Isn't that similar to Slick Honey?

  13. #13
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    The easy way to do a Pike:

    1) Install fork
    2) Ride the $HIT out of it

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by hokiebrett View Post
    Oh c'mon... All I read is that the Pike is the end all, be all.

    And now it needs more money and tuning to make it work?

    BTW: I've got a massive tube of Manitou PrepM... Isn't that similar to Slick Honey?
    I've been riding my roadie on my trainer in front of my TV/computer (wireless keyboard mounted on my bar so I can surf/watch MSNBC streams) while watching Liberal pundits rip on Republicans (that part I don't mind). I'm going a bit stir-crazy, so I go into tinkering/nerd-tastic mode...it ain't broke...who cares! let's fix it anyway!
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  15. #15
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    and slather it in judy butter with baby hands.
    been on the same fsr expert frame since new in 99. Ride because you love it, not to be a trendy a$$hole.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    The easy way to do a Pike:

    1) Install fork
    2) Ride the $HIT out of it
    Lol. 10-4

  17. #17
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    Ppl w/ Pikes that feel mid-stroke is too spikey

    Based on what qualities you seek I'd recommend a used 2013 fox 34 for you and save yourself almost $1k

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtydoug View Post
    Based on what qualities you seek I'd recommend a used 2013 fox 34 for you and save yourself almost $1k
    Seriously.

    I'm a little concerned. I've stayed away from Rock Shox forks for years now because I hated how much tinkering they take. Search MTBR for tuning tips on a Reba or just about any other RS fork, and there are pages and pages and pages of suggestions with no consensus and every setting seems to be a compromise in performance somewhere else. I've been a big fan of Fox (I know everybody's not) for a while and have been happy. That said, I heard amazing things about the Pike and picked one up about a month ago to put on my rig. Now I'm reading more and more threads like this one. With my Fox, I set my sag and my rebound and I ride. I like the older RLC dampers because of the on-the-fly LSC adjustments. Other than that, they're just awesome. And I'm kinda picky about my suspension (clearly not as picky as Paully or others on here).

    Am I going to be disappointed? Am I going to spend the first month or so of riding this fork tearing it apart after every ride to add tokens and tinker with the damping and whatnot? If so, I might sell this thing before I mount it up and pick up another Fox 34...
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  19. #19
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    ^^^ x2^^^

    My pike just shipped, but now I'm thinking of building the 34 I have

  20. #20
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    Guys.. I don't own a pike, but stop worrying, its going to be great.. some people just like to tinker and talk and twist dials, personally I set it and forget it (and I currently ride two RS products and love them).
    BBZ

    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy - Benjamin Franklin

  21. #21
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    I would not worry about it either.
    This is one of the best forks out of the box out there. When the time for complete overhaul comes, maybe than it makes more sense to try to make it even better...

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    Ppl w/ Pikes that feel mid-stroke is too spikey

    Geez you can't always listen to tards on the internet. Definitely get more input. My comment was sarcastic IMO the fox 34 was a total piece of horseshit, then I had dirt labs do some work and it got better maybe got up to turd quality.
    I have a pike and agree with skared out of the box it's great. Some people are just tweakers.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtydoug View Post
    I have a pike and agree with skared out of the box it's great. Some people are just tweakers.
    Yup, those are the guys and gals I prefer to not ride with, always talking shop and asking questions I can't answer, like, how many clicks you running.. blah, blah, blah.. go ride your bike.
    BBZ

    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy - Benjamin Franklin

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    Seriously.

    I'm a little concerned. I've stayed away from Rock Shox forks for years now because I hated how much tinkering they take. Search MTBR for tuning tips on a Reba or just about any other RS fork, and there are pages and pages and pages of suggestions with no consensus and every setting seems to be a compromise in performance somewhere else. I've been a big fan of Fox (I know everybody's not) for a while and have been happy. That said, I heard amazing things about the Pike and picked one up about a month ago to put on my rig. Now I'm reading more and more threads like this one. With my Fox, I set my sag and my rebound and I ride. I like the older RLC dampers because of the on-the-fly LSC adjustments. Other than that, they're just awesome. And I'm kinda picky about my suspension (clearly not as picky as Paully or others on here).

    Am I going to be disappointed? Am I going to spend the first month or so of riding this fork tearing it apart after every ride to add tokens and tinker with the damping and whatnot? If so, I might sell this thing before I mount it up and pick up another Fox 34...
    You'll be fine. Just bolt it up and ride the shit out of it like SS said. I'm just going stir-crazy and I LIKE to geek out.

    The token thing is easy! If you're heavy...say 200+, then drop in all three tokens (my fork came w/ 1 in, 2 spares), 175 or so, 2 in, 150, 1 in and anything below 125, pull out the one in there. Then set your static sag...I like ~25-27%...w/ whatever air pressure. Set your RCT3 to open and your LSC and rebound to middle, and go ride. Adjust your LSC and rebound to your favor. Disclaimer: I use a different token config...all 3 in and very low pressure.

    If you don't like those token suggestions, then play...but it's pretty easy. Let out the air, unscrew the top plug, screw on or off the token, and slap everything back together...5 minutes.

    A thing before you bolt it up, empty and refill the lube oil in the fork lowers. A number of ppl have noticed they've been coming in pretty dry.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia View Post
    Yup, those are the guys and gals I prefer to not ride with, always talking shop and asking questions I can't answer, like, how many clicks you running.. blah, blah, blah.. go ride your bike.
    You can jump on a bike and ride w/ about 80% of the ppl out there who wouldn't know shit from shinola. They see "Fox" and they're happy, even if that fork doesn't move.

    I cannot even begin to tell you how many ppl that, by just sliding in their brake levers and bringing back the reach so they can use 1 finger braking, that their level of enjoyment jumps WAY up! I've seen bikes ppl ride! Friggin' shops have been sending out bikes set up like dog-piles! You'd think that someone who've spent over $3K for a ride, the shop would spend 1/2 hour to an hour tweaking brake levers, saddle angles and position on rails, and suspension. Get them fitted, ergo and adjustments dialed!

    So yeah, I tweak dials, but I won't talk about it w/ you until you complain your wrist/hands are tired from braking bombing down Mt Elbert...or your fillings fall out because your fork is riding on its bottom out bumpers.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    You can jump on a bike and ride w/ about 80% of the ppl out there who wouldn't know shit from shinola. They see "Fox" and they're happy, even if that fork doesn't move.

    I cannot even begin to tell you how many ppl that, by just sliding in their brake levers and bringing back the reach so they can use 1 finger braking, that their level of enjoyment jumps WAY up! I've seen bikes ppl ride! Friggin' shops have been sending out bikes set up like dog-piles! You'd think that someone who've spent over $3K for a ride, the shop would spend 1/2 hour to an hour tweaking brake levers, saddle angles and position on rails, and suspension. Get them fitted, ergo and adjustments dialed!

    So yeah, I tweak dials, but I won't talk about it w/ you until you complain your wrist/hands are tired from braking bombing down Mt Elbert...or your fillings fall out because your fork is riding on its bottom out bumpers.
    tweak away my friend, no offense intended, I just hate hearing about it over and over

    and my 45 yr old wrists/hands are just fine thank you
    BBZ

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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia View Post
    tweak away my friend, no offense intended, I just hate hearing about it over and over

    and my 45 yr old wrists/hands are just fine thank you
    Not offended as much as amazed that, with how much indifference you have on the topic, you'd chime in on the thread, and when you did to basically shit all over the idea of the info exchange. Are you a Tea Party Republican, 'cause that might explain things...

    Edit: my bad on the Tea Party comment...pretty cheap shot...sorry.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Not offended as much as amazed that, with how much indifference you have on the topic, you'd chime in on the thread, and when you did to basically shit all over the idea of the info exchange. Are you a Tea Party Republican, 'cause that might explain things...
    lighten up francis..

    just like others, following the thread because who knows what fork will end up on my next bike.. if a nearly $1k fork needs a lot of work to feel good, I will probably pass. I like my stuff to work well right out of the box without major tweaking and there are plenty of products that do that in my opinion
    BBZ

    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy - Benjamin Franklin

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia View Post
    I like my stuff to work well right out of the box without major tweaking and there are plenty of products that do that in my opinion
    One of the 80%, that's cool. So why no sit back, enjoy the thread, let the nerd geek-out, and maybe there's a nug or three of simple tweaks you can apply to make your Pike stellar instead of berating me? Cheers.
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  30. #30
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    Talking to Darren of Push over in the Suspension forum, and trying to get him to do another open house. Will update...or maybe he'll chime in here
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan F View Post
    Hey Paul, I've re-valved that fork already to remedy that! No need to spend that kind of money! PM me if you like, or mavericksuspension@gmail.com
    We also work on the rebound end as well to help "calm" the fork down a bit...!
    We agree, we feel the charger damper is a good but it still has a few areas that could be improved or changed. Firstly it has a pedal/lock-out knob that is usefull for some but most seem to want more tuneability for the downhill or open mode. Secondly it needs a way to tune the shim stacks rather than the threshold adjust system it has. By converting the pedal/lock-out knob, changing the piston and threshold system to a independent high speed adjuster it now can be adjusted in all positions for increased adjustment range for descend riding. Essentially 3 clicks of high speed with 12 clicks of low speed for each high speed setting. Thirdly the rebound piston needs to be able to accommodate midvalves that can be tuned, the charger piston and arbor needs more space and features to be able to do this so since our 20 mm rebound piston fits right in (yes, Rockshox used the same cartridge 20 mm tube size and 6 mm shim arbor as we do, how convenient!) This is why we are offering a replacement piston/valve revalving kit the improves the performance, adds midvalves and converts the pedal/lock-out knob to a high speed adjuster. For those who want the smoother, reliable and maintenance free open-bath cartridge we offer that too. Same pistons and midvalves in open bath system.

    The kit is offer at the bottom of the Pike website page:

    Pike Open Bath and Piston/valve Revalve Cartridge Kit

    The Piston/Valve Kit for the Charger Damper



    Compression valve and rebound piston

    * New Compression valve with converted high speed adjustment(RCT3 only), soft med, hard(open, pedal, lock),
    retains 12 clicks of low speed adjustment in all high speed positions.
    * New Rebound valve with adjustable midvalves and 2 stage tapered rebound valving shims
    * No drilling, machining or grinding. Fits right in.
    Very adjustable now, feels amazing based on our initial testing.


    The Kit will come with an assortment of shims for revalving, and 3 high speed springs for tuning.
    We will supply a set-up chart with options for tuning, based on air pressure, type of riding, and skill level.

    1 - 4 port compression piston with o-ring
    1 - 4 port rebound piston with piston band
    compression shims
    rebound shims
    midvalve check plate, spool and spring assembly
    midvalve shims
    optional soft and hard high speed spring for fine tuning
    sleeve O-ring
    charger o-ring rebuild kit
    5/8 hex tool


    Here are some FAQ's and answers from another post:


    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Thanks.

    Basic question for you, as I'm not too suspension tech savy, but I do know how I like my shocks to feel. Maybe your fix addresses what I'm asking. Maybe there is an easier way to address my concern.

    Open/Descend mode on the RCT3 feels good as does its LSC adjustments.

    Trail mode - far too harsh. Feels over damped when the lever is thrown and the LSC remains in the same setting as it was in Open mode.

    Lockout - completely worthless on a mountain bike IMO.


    Is there an easy way to fix this? Seems to me the Trail setting should replace the Lockout, and a setting between the Trail and Open should exist.

    Maybe a "Trail-Lite" could be set up between Open and Trail. Or, to keep with the latest marketing lingo, an "Enduro" setting - enough LSC to handle "peddally" sections and prevent dive, and just enough HSC to help from blowing through travel on the fast, rough hits.

    I'd bet most riders on a Pike spend almost all their time in the Open mode. To bad to have 2/3 of a shock's settings barely being used.



    Yes, we feel the lock is completely worthless for this kind of fork and the trail or pedal mode is still way too stiff for most, so why not convert it to a more usable setting, this is what our kit addresses. The trail setting or pedal mode with the low speed set at 6 out becomes the standard setting or midpoint between harder and softer overall compression. Click it to lock-out and it is firmer high speed compression with the same low speed or click it to open and it it will be softer high speed compression. This high speed compression range is controlled by one of the 3 high speed springs and the shim stack arrangement options we provide with the kit. When lighter low speed settings are selected the dive will be addressed with the midvalve system added as part of the kit, this comes with adjustable shimming options too.

    This kind of philosophy follows the same pattern as with the SSD mods we make to the the Float/RP23 shocks. We remove the boost valve and we convert the lever system from pedal/trail/descend to firm, medium and soft low speed compression with fine tuning of the trail with the 1,2,3 positions. This gives the shock more usable adjustment settings for going down the hill while keeping the pedal performance nearly as good in the firmer settings if needed.

    Float CTD and RP23 SSD Modifications

  32. #32
    Kaj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Friggin' shops have been sending out bikes set up like dog-piles!
    No joke there. Bikes come from the factory with the brake levers jammed up against the grips. We had to put in a 1 finger between grip and brake rule and enforce it religiously for a few months till all bikes on the floor were always that way. If you have lots of different bike builders, you get lots of different set ups - and you need to be strict on getting them the same.

    I still get tons of folks through the shop with bikes not from us, where I ask nicely if I can set up their brakes better. 80% say yes please, 10% have gotten used to a bad setup and don't want change, 10% actually like it different and know it.

    It's funny, once the bike is bought and leaves the shop mechanics in general are reluctant to change bar a set up even if it's really odd, we train and re-train our guys to ask if it's ok to make some small changes.
    Kona Wo for Fat Biking, Ibis HD3 for Trail Shredding, Merckx Road bike for collecting dust in garage

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj View Post
    ...we train and re-train our guys to ask if it's ok to make some small changes.
    When I was still active on the Lakewood Mountain Bike Meetup group, I talked to one of the intermediate ride organizers about putting on a happy-hour bike tweak day, before drama drove me nuts and I quit Meetup. Maybe you can take over and have it at your shop. Free marketing and bound to be able to sell some things while it goes down...just a thought
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    One of the 80%, that's cool. So why no sit back, enjoy the thread, let the nerd geek-out, and maybe there's a nug or three of simple tweaks you can apply to make your Pike stellar instead of berating me? Cheers.
    yup, Paully, me and my 25 years of riding mtn bikes don't know $hit.. you caught me..
    BBZ

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    Well sir, I yield the floor to you. I am all ears if you have a solution what prompted this whole dig I'm doing on the Pike...too spikey a super low speed compression. And, if it passes some basic critical thinking, I'll try it in my fork.
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan F View Post
    Once the comp shims are lightened up the low speed adjuster takes more effect for ride height, but eliminates the hand slappy feel it has.
    I'm surprised to hear that you would lighten the compression stack from stock. Is this even for rider weights over 140lbs?

    Talking to Darren of Push over in the Suspension forum, and trying to get him to do another open house. Will update...or maybe he'll chime in here
    Open House, or Suspension Clinic? A suspension clinic was actually brought up in a group meeting recently because they were quite successful for our first try. If there's a little interest maybe I'll start a new Front Range post to discuss what riders want to see. Seems to me that beginner classes probably are in less demand then say sitting in our test lab running trail simulations on suspension components!

    We could also get into piston/valve/damper design. Depending on what's running in production, we may be able to actually show those discussed designs running on the CNC machines.....although that may get tricky if we do the clinics outside of normal business hours.

    Anyway, if this sounds interesting to people reading this post let me know and I'll see what we can do. As I type this I'm actually thinking about a couple of pretty cool demonstrations.

    Darren

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Open House, or Suspension Clinic? A suspension clinic was actually brought up in a group meeting recently because they were quite successful for our first try. If there's a little interest maybe I'll start a new Front Range post to discuss what riders want to see. Seems to me that beginner classes probably are in less demand then say sitting in our test lab running trail simulations on suspension components!

    We could also get into piston/valve/damper design. Depending on what's running in production, we may be able to actually show those discussed designs running on the CNC machines.....although that may get tricky if we do the clinics outside of normal business hours.

    Anyway, if this sounds interesting to people reading this post let me know and I'll see what we can do. As I type this I'm actually thinking about a couple of pretty cool demonstrations.

    Darren
    Yeah, I mean clinic.
    Do it! I'll come! I'd like to see more of piston/port design, large vs small bleed/bypass port(s), and yeah the simulation runs on the dyno.
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Well sir, I yield the floor to you. I am all ears if you have a solution what prompted this whole dig I'm doing on the Pike...too spikey a super low speed compression. And, if it passes some basic critical thinking, I'll try it in my fork.
    I'll take a stab, perhaps it's your uber plush setup at the top of the stroke(low psi, high sag %) combined with the 3 tokens, so the transition into mid stroke feels harsh?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    When I was still active on the Lakewood Mountain Bike Meetup group, I talked to one of the intermediate ride organizers about putting on a happy-hour bike tweak day, before drama drove me nuts and I quit Meetup. Maybe you can take over and have it at your shop
    That would be good, so many people would have more fun with just some minor tweaks. Probably something good to do late March/ early April.
    Kona Wo for Fat Biking, Ibis HD3 for Trail Shredding, Merckx Road bike for collecting dust in garage

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tickle View Post
    I'll take a stab, perhaps it's your uber plush setup at the top of the stroke(low psi, high sag %) combined with the 3 tokens, so the transition into mid stroke feels harsh?
    My problem/goal isn't a harsh transition into mid-stroke, it's the lack of super LSC, or initial/start of the stroke. And, I don't believe stiction is the problem.

    FYI, my 3 token low psi setup is as follows:
    ~185lbs kitted up...
    27% sag and ~37, 38 psi in the main chamber...maybe up to 40. I've had this fork up to ~ 70psi w/o tokens...WAY too linear, btw...so I'd wager the negative chamber is charged a lot higher than the main.

    Rebound is set for DH...arguable a bit too fast for slow uphills where I'm getting bounced. But, I'm simply not getting deep enough into the stroke or the air pressure have that kind of oomph to generate the kind of return force to "bounce" for a too fast a rebound. Even wide open, the rebound is pretty well controlled so even getting about 1/2 way into the stroke won't cause the pogo stick effect. BTW, I'm running 2 clicks in on the LSC dial w/ the RCT3 dial in the DH mode...read somewhere you want the LSC needle at least partially engaged...forgot why tho...but have tried it fully opened too w/ no diff.

    Edit: but thanks tho!
    I did try tweaking everything I can think of before resorting to looking at the shims...other than oil viscosities...but did look at that Peter Verdone chart. I'm worried that a change in viscosity (lighter) will impact the other damping characteristics.

    PS - I am hitting full travel w/o harsh bottoming w/ that setup.
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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  41. #41
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    Diff strokes(pun intended) for diff folks I guess, I've always preferred less sag even on gravity style bikes, 15-20%. I also prefer to run the RCT3 damper in the pedal mode with a few clicks of LSC, less fork dive, better ride height, just feels better to me.

    Would happily sacrifice a little slow speed pillow like susp feel for when things get fast and rough.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tickle View Post
    Would happily sacrifice a little slow speed pillow like susp feel for when things get fast and rough.
    Yup, I wholly agree w/ this type of a setup on a DH bike...where speeds are pretty high, translating to high shaft speed events. But when 2/3 of your ride time is spent in the 3-5 mph range trying to chug up a rocky incline, I tend to bias the tune to a softer front, stiffer rear (climbing) combo. But yeah, diff strokes...and why I like that middle dial position up front for coming down slow/steep tech while the back gets the wide open position (I have a Monarch RC3 on the back). Not a combo a lot of ppl like cause the back will have a tendency to rear up/buck, unless you crank down on the rebound...and I don't...leave the rebound in middle-fast for ups and downs, and have found it pretty good for jumping too if paired w/ a fast rebounding front.

    Seems the conclusion is I'm sending my Pike into Craig for the Charger mod. He sent me a prelim what looks like a SolidWorks dwg where the Charger's boot portion is under a nitro charge sleeve. This is to address cavitation issues you'd run into w/ small bore piston and bleed/free flow port configs. If anyone wants a pic of that thing, PM Craig (cseekins). I've got no pricing on that add-on.
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Yup, I wholly agree w/ this type of a setup on a DH bike...where speeds are pretty high, translating to high shaft speed events. But when 2/3 of your ride time is spent in the 3-5 mph range trying to chug up a rocky incline, I tend to bias the tune to a softer front, stiffer rear (climbing) combo. But yeah, diff strokes...and why I like that middle dial position up front for coming down slow/steep tech while the back gets the wide open position (I have a Monarch RC3 on the back). Not a combo a lot of ppl like cause the back will have a tendency to rear up/buck, unless you crank down on the rebound...and I don't...leave the rebound in middle-fast for ups and downs, and have found it pretty good for jumping too if paired w/ a fast rebounding front.

    Seems the conclusion is I'm sending my Pike into Craig for the Charger mod. He sent me a prelim what looks like a SolidWorks dwg where the Charger's boot portion is under a nitro charge sleeve. This is to address cavitation issues you'd run into w/ small bore piston and bleed/free flow port configs. If anyone wants a pic of that thing, PM Craig (cseekins). I've got no pricing on that add-on.
    Actually the Nitrogen sleeve is posted on the Pike page, price and availability soon, this will benefit the stock internals as well our Charger damper Mod Kit when firmer damping settings are used, adding more midvalve or higher speed hits. All MX sealed cartridges use either a pressure spring IFP (Showa and KYB) or nitrogen to preload the bladder(WP). Actual pictures will be posted as soon as they are available. This is not for everyone but could improve damper action for the heavier and more aggressive riders.

  44. #44
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    Man, this thread delivers! We have three legit suspension experts (darren, craig, ethan) talking shop... References to cabin fever, politics, front range infighting and Stripes quotes. Nostalgic mentions of Englund & Slick Honey bringing me back to remembering Total Air Cartridges. Throw in dirty talk like 'mid stroke', shared settings and offerings of suspension clinics makes me wish I still lived in Denver and owned a Pike. Please continue.

  45. #45
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    I am glad you got the Stripes reference!! makes it all worth it..
    BBZ

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  46. #46
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    OK. The mechanical engineer in me is loving this geek out thread.

    Personally, I agree that Climb/Lock is stupid for the type of bike/riding these forks are designed for. I rarely ever completely lock out my fork.

    A thought I'm having (and maybe I don't understand the differences in Charger vs. FIT dampers) is that people are wishing the Charger damper was set up more like the FIT Adjust? Where you can tune the "pedal/trail" mode and prevent such large jumps in compression settings between the steps in Lock/Pedal/Open and CTD?

    The reason this is important to me is that I have a cheap, NIB 34 chassis to build (to my hearts content as I could build to the Nines and be around the price of a Pike). I also have a Pike being delivered today. I'll be keeping one of the forks for my bike build.

    I guess you could run lots of sag on a Pike to soften up the Trail/Pedal mode and then crank the LSC on Descend? (And use tokens to adjust the progressive rate of the air spring?)

    Quote Originally Posted by crseekins View Post
    Open/Descend mode on the RCT3 feels good as does its LSC adjustments.

    Trail mode - far too harsh. Feels over damped when the lever is thrown and the LSC remains in the same setting as it was in Open mode.

    Lockout - completely worthless on a mountain bike IMO.


    Is there an easy way to fix this? Seems to me the Trail setting should replace the Lockout, and a setting between the Trail and Open should exist.

    Maybe a "Trail-Lite" could be set up between Open and Trail. Or, to keep with the latest marketing lingo, an "Enduro" setting - enough LSC to handle "peddally" sections and prevent dive, and just enough HSC to help from blowing through travel on the fast, rough hits.

    I'd bet most riders on a Pike spend almost all their time in the Open mode. To bad to have 2/3 of a shock's settings barely being used.[/COLOR]

  47. #47
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    Minor tangent - question for Paul or Avalanche or whomever. Sort of a decision-making scenario: If you were starting fresh and intended to buy the Avalanche full-on damping cartridge - why would you start with the Pike? It seems like you'd be spending a lot of cash on the tech from RS only to replace it? I get why you'd buy the revalve kit and keep the Pike internals and improve the characteristics. My horse in the race is due to me owning one of those heavily discounted Fox 34 Talas. I can totally see dumping out the EVO and throwing it in the trash. I guess with the Pike you'd get the lower stiction - anything else that would sway someone to spend $$ on a Pike/Avy vs. existing Fox34 w/ a future Avy?

    Thanks.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by hokiebrett View Post
    OK. The mechanical engineer in me is loving this geek out thread.

    Personally, I agree that Climb/Lock is stupid for the type of bike/riding these forks are designed for. I rarely ever completely lock out my fork.

    A thought I'm having (and maybe I don't understand the differences in Charger vs. FIT dampers) is that people are wishing the Charger damper was set up more like the FIT Adjust? Where you can tune the "pedal/trail" mode and prevent such large jumps in compression settings between the steps in Lock/Pedal/Open and CTD?

    The reason this is important to me is that I have a cheap, NIB 34 chassis to build (to my hearts content as I could build to the Nines and be around the price of a Pike). I also have a Pike being delivered today. I'll be keeping one of the forks for my bike build.

    I guess you could run lots of sag on a Pike to soften up the Trail/Pedal mode and then crank the LSC on Descend? (And use tokens to adjust the progressive rate of the air spring?)
    Sell off that Backcountry.com score and keep the Pike.

    You can drop in a couple more tokens and drop your PSI and you'll get the same effect as you describe w/ running a lot of sag, but w/ proper sag.

    I had my fork w/ 2 clicks of LSC and open mode and 3 tokens in and right around 40psi when I hit that first steep rock down on Blackjack...bottomed the fork at that transition. Then, switched to the trail position w/o touching the LSC dial on top, and the fork remained mostly in the middle the rest of the way down.
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  49. #49
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    40 psi and 3 tokens for someone 180 is a really weird setup. Of course its gonna be spikey. One token and 65psi should ride more correctly.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Sell off that Backcountry.com score and keep the Pike.

    You can drop in a couple more tokens and drop your PSI and you'll get the same effect as you describe w/ running a lot of sag, but w/ proper sag.

    I had my fork w/ 2 clicks of LSC and open mode and 3 tokens in and right around 40psi when I hit that first steep rock down on Blackjack...bottomed the fork at that transition. Then, switched to the trail position w/o touching the LSC dial on top, and the fork remained mostly in the middle the rest of the way down.
    Its funny you mention that. It was on Blackjack that I swore to rid myself of my 2013 32 F150 CTD. SOB dove hard. One time I kept her sunny side up. Other time she dumped me bad... it hurt.

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