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  1. #1
    mtbmike
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    Poaching Trails Hurts Us All

    I got a call from an OSMP rep this morning. Rangers on the Goshawk Ridge Trail ticketed a cyclist recently (Friday). When asked if he saw the signage, he stated that "All my buddies say it's cool to ride the trail."

    People, it's not cool to ride the trail. This idiot gets a $250 fine and gets to visit the judge; you can't mail this one in.

    BMA is working hard to get access to the West TSA (Mountain Parks region) and the Eldo to Walker connection. Crap like this deals a blow to our efforts. We are working with OSMP on signs like these to make it abundantly clear:
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  2. #2
    skillz to pay billz
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    mike,

    As a graphic designer I must give just a little design feedback. I can't help it.

    If this sign is posted at open trailheads as a PSA then it's pretty effective, although a headline like "POACHING" would help.

    alternatively, If this is posted at a closed trail there will be confusion. The sign is green, which means go. The biker icon is not crossed out, signifying that it is legal to go as well. Also It still needs the previously mentioned headline so when people are scanning the sign at 10-20 mph, it will catch their attention.

    just some thoughts.

  3. #3
    nice marmot.
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    i agree. if i was cruising past this sign and just glanced, i wouldn't get the impression it is negative, as in don't go.
    Q. how many kids with A.D.D. does it take to change a light bulb?
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  4. #4
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    Typical Socialist gibberish Reverse Psychology thinking in that sign design.

    Green = Go
    Cyclist logo without a slash = OK to ride.

    Nothing stating what is allowed on the trails, ie pics of hikers or equestrians.

    Try a big fat international RED SLASH over the whole sign.

    FAIL!

  5. #5
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    Nothing about that sign says 'don't ride here' to me. It green and there's a cyclist on it, I'd take it as a Go sign.

    +1 for fail.
    It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required.

  6. #6
    skillz to pay billz
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    hats ff to BMA for trying to get the word out!

  7. #7
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    Right On!

    Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!

    I have 3 things to say --

    First, Huge Thank You to BMA for taking this action.

    Second, great feedback on the signage. Good points all.

    Lastly -- your tagline says it all.


    Bravo!


    Blessings and Happy Trails!

    Marc

  8. #8
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    Just out of curiosity -

    If the B.M.A. can post signs at trailheads, does everyone have the right to post signs also?

  9. #9
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    The design of that sign is fine, if it's posted on a trail that is open to bikes. Isn't that the case with the placement shown above?

    The small font and subtle graphics make it clear that the message is not meant to be absorbed with a glance while riding at 10-20 mph. It's clearly a sign that's meant to be read in full -- an informational piece, not a stop sign or similar warning. It's not being used to mark a trail that's closed to bikers, so a red slash or similar marking would confuse, not clarify, the message. Green is a friendly, low-key color that matches the message of the text.

    Keep it as it is. Perhaps develop another version in red, with a slash, or otherwise similarly marked, to post at trailheads where bike access is prohibited.

  10. #10
    Tre1nt
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    "If the B.M.A. can post signs at trailheads, does everyone have the right to post signs also?"

    Everyone who has a partnership agreement with the land manager, represents a group that performs hundreds of hours of volunteer labor each season, and develops a signage program to benefit the public should have the right to post signs at trailheads.

    Right?

  11. #11
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    A green sign with a guy riding a bike....

    Doesn't that mean go ride!

  12. #12
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    Hey Mike, I bet you didn't know that sign was socialist. It's green... and uh... that guy on the bike is clearly a proletarian.

    For everyone providing the well thought out criticism, Mike never said this sign was being posted at closed trails. I'm sure they will continue to be marked with the unmistakable bike with a red slash through it.

    This sign is probably for other prominent locations to inform those that choose to poach about the larger implications of their actions.

    Good work BMA.

  13. #13
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    Mike-

    Does a OSMP rep contact you everytime someone gets ticketed for poaching? If so, do you post everytime you are contacted by one of these reps?

    "My buds said it's cool" is a weasel like cop out. I doubt there are rouge bands of riders hitting GRT (or you'd hear about it I assume). Just one a$$hole's opinion. Thanks for all you do!

    I'd read your sign simply because it has a bike on it and HEY!! I'm on a bike!!
    Last edited by jugdish; 05-30-2009 at 09:06 PM.
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  14. #14
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    I think it's great that these signs are going up. I do agree with some of the tips about the signs look, but it's a great start. I think too many people do not know trail etiquette, and need to be taught the proper way to use these areas. Kudos!
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  15. #15
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    Sweet trail!!! Is there a way to shuttle it????
    Somebody better get me a stamp...I'm gonna send it

  16. #16
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    What have I done?!?

  17. #17
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    I'm glad I ride trails so far on the DL I don't have to worry about BS like this.

    Nany Nany Naaaaannnny!!!

  18. #18
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    likewise

  19. #19
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    I think the Trustafarians probably should have made the sign another color, maybe something that doesn't blend into the landscape, eh?
    This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    Mike-

    Does a OSMP rep contact you everytime someone gets ticketed for poaching? If so, do you post everytime you are contacted by one of these reps?
    there is a distribution list that is ciruclated - but in order to be on the list you have to be politically connected - JD: with all of your political connections i should be able to get you added.

  21. #21
    Perpetually single track
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    Thanks Mike, your advocacy on all of our behalfs is appreciated.

  22. #22
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    The clueless would have to ride past this sign at the entrance to Goshawk. Any questions here as to whether bikes are allowed?
    Last edited by xcguy; 04-03-2011 at 10:57 AM.
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  23. #23
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    nevermind
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  24. #24
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    (nevermind) freakin' triple post
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  25. #25
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    Yeah, a big RED sign that says everytime you poach a trail a kitten dies should work just fine

    But really...a round green sign is something I might stop and read.

  26. #26
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    signage and activism is good.

    we never got clarification. is this sign actually on an open or closed trail?

    is there more than just the 1 sign on just the 1 trail?
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by suprcivic
    signage and activism is good.

    we never got clarification. is this sign actually on an open or closed trail?

    is there more than just the 1 sign on just the 1 trail?

    These two signs are on either side of the entrance to Goshawk, which is a bridge off of Spring Brook. If bikers are riding Goshawk and didn't come over the bridge (ignoring the sign on the right "hey, nobody told us") that means they poached some other trail (a clearly marked Fowler) to get onto Goshawk somehow.

    Yes, Goshawk is an open trail...open to hikers and runners and probably horses but like the sign clearly says, no dogs or bikes.
    Last edited by xcguy; 04-03-2011 at 10:57 AM.
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  28. #28
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    So mountain bikers are lumped in the same category as Dogs? Sweeet!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    The clueless would have to ride past this sign at the entrance to Goshawk. Any questions here as to whether bikes are allowed?
    The way I interpret that sign is that dogs riding bikes are not allowed, unless they are off leash.
    ****

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormvine
    So mountain bikers are lumped in the same category as Dogs? Sweeet!
    You got that right! Remember that Bruce Lee film, maybe his first one ("Fists of Fury"), where he's living in a China that had just been invaded by Japan and the Chinese were being persecuted in their own country. He looks up and sees a sign that says "No dogs and Chinese allowed". Of course, he jumps up about six feet off the ground, kicks the sign up into the air, then shatters it again with another kick. Chinese audiences all stood up and cheered when they saw this and Bruce Lee's legend had begun. Now, back to mountain biking and dogs...In fact, here it is:

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cvK-VGPocQU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cvK-VGPocQU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  31. #31
    Your retarded
    Reputation: Nickle's Avatar
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    Perhaps a more simple sign option? Poach eggs, not trails.
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    The way I interpret that sign is that dogs riding bikes are not allowed, unless they are off leash.
    Renegade, for you, if you rode your dog, you were off leash but you owned a bike...this trail is for you. Poach it today!
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  33. #33
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    Did just hiker people and horsey riders pay for this trail? Just wondering.

  34. #34
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    i'm going with this
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  35. #35
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    ^^^lol ... i think i'd get that one.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbmike1
    I got a call from an OSMP rep this morning. Rangers on the Goshawk Ridge Trail ticketed a cyclist recently (Friday). When asked if he saw the signage, he stated that "All my buddies say it's cool to ride the trail."

    People, it's not cool to ride the trail. This idiot gets a $250 fine and gets to visit the judge; you can't mail this one in.

    BMA is working hard to get access to the West TSA (Mountain Parks region) and the Eldo to Walker connection. Crap like this deals a blow to our efforts. We are working with OSMP on signs like these to make it abundantly clear:
    if everyone poached trails, then nobodies access would ever be at risk

  37. #37
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    dogs are smarter

    If you can't figure out the signage, well its pretty bad I guess. I don't think Mike needs the grief he's been getting. It is well known that trail is off limits to bikes. There are plenty of places to ride.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by adjunkie
    if everyone poached trails, then nobodies access would ever be at risk
    LOL! We have a winner

  39. #39
    zrm
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    Quote Originally Posted by adjunkie
    if everyone poached trails, then nobodies access would ever be at risk
    Don't know if this is a serious post or not but:

    If everyone poached trails lots of people would be getting busted and there would be fewer places to ride.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm
    Don't know if this is a serious post or not but:

    If everyone poached trails lots of people would be getting busted and there would be fewer places to ride.
    The whole situation is ridiculous.

    Imagine you're hit by a car. In a coma for 20 years. You come back to. You want to go for your first walk in the woods in 20 years. You get to this trail head and see all these signs: "Off-trail travel requires a permit." "No dogs." Something about "poaching" trails. And a bridge that must have cost $75,000 to build and install.

    You're not sure what you're most upset about: that your wife is married to someone else now or that the world has gone to crap.

    We don't think twice about it now. We forget that when we were kids, a few logs would have been thrown across the stream. If we had to pee, we could walk off the trail and go behind a tree. Our parents might have even let us throw a few rocks into the stream.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcoady
    The whole situation is ridiculous.

    Imagine you're hit by a car. In a coma for 20 years. You come back to. You want to go for your first walk in the woods in 20 years. You get to this trail head and see all these signs: "Off-trail travel requires a permit." "No dogs." Something about "poaching" trails. And a bridge that must have cost $75,000 to build and install.

    You're not sure what you're most upset about: that your wife is married to someone else now or that the world has gone to crap.

    We don't think twice about it now. We forget that when we were kids, a few logs would have been thrown across the stream. If we had to pee, we could walk off the trail and go behind a tree. Our parents might have even let us throw a few rocks into the stream.
    There's a lot more people and lawyers now. I grew up in Washington state near Tacoma and my memories are of nothing but woods where we'd just wander about all the time, catching fish in some large stream and running over to a "lake" we'd dammed up on some other creek to create our own fishing hole. The last time I visited the old neighborhood that entire area was a subdivision.
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  42. #42
    zrm
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    There's a lot more people and lawyers now. I grew up in Washington state near Tacoma and my memories are of nothing but woods where we'd just wander about all the time, catching fish in some large stream and running over to a "lake" we'd dammed up on some other creek to create our own fishing hole. The last time I visited the old neighborhood that entire area was a subdivision.
    Yep, times have changed, there's a lot more people and a lot more demands on the land. That little reality requires more rooles and wreckrulations. Without them, it would be a mess. The good news is, that there are still and will continue to be many, many great places to ride mountain bikes as long as the mountain bike community remains a legitimate partner at the table. Poachers, renegades, etc, take away some of that legitimacy.

  43. #43
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    I rode Spring Brook yesterday. As I passed the bridge that is the entrance to Goshawk I looked again at signage. In fact, as you can see, there are FOUR signs saying "no bikes".
    Of course, the poachers can still use the time honored excuse of "nobody told me" as if that makes them innocent
    Last edited by xcguy; 04-03-2011 at 10:57 AM.
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

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