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  1. #1
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    Pine Beetle and Evergreen/Clear Creek County Property Values?

    I've been looking at mountain properties that are commutable distances to DTC and close to trails. But it looks like those evil little bugs are going to migrate down to lower elevation and take all the Lodge-Pole Pine's with them in the next four years.

    So what are your thoughts on buying a mountain house? Wait fours year and see how things pan out? Or Is beetle mania over blown?

    Obviously it would suck to by a secluded house in the pines only to end up having to cut down hundreds of dead trees and have your property value tank 30%. Then again living on a bald hill is still better than living in Denver and you'll have plenty of wood for making stunts .

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  2. #2
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    Buy something that will have killer views if the trees have to be cut down.
    (Due to fire marshal's instruction for fire mitigation, I had to cut more trees down than I wanted when I built my house near Keystone 15 years ago. The views it opened up were awesome, however.)

    Evergreen single family home sale stats:
    June '08: 38 sales, median price: $405,000
    June '09: 37 sales, median price: $410,000

  3. #3
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    Depending on how high above Evergreen you're looking at, at that elevation most of the trees are Ponderosa Pines, that during this outbreak, don't seem as affected as they were during the last outbreak in the early 70's..

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    Quote Originally Posted by onbelaydave
    Depending on how high above Evergreen you're looking at, at that elevation most of the trees are Ponderosa Pines, that during this outbreak, don't seem as affected as they were during the last outbreak in the early 70's..
    A quick trip over to WP and Fraser will dispel that theory. Look around the prospective property and figure 80% of the trees larger than 4" in diameter are gone... then decide if the property will still have enough privacy to be attractive. You may be able to save a couple key trees by spraying a ton of chemicals, but there's no guarantee.

    On the flip side, the more open areas usually spring up nicely with wildflowers during early summer... and if you have enough moisture you may end up with a new aspen grove in your back yard. In any case, you'll have more than the 15 feet separating most the houses around Denver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thump
    A quick trip over to WP and Fraser will dispel that theory. Look around the prospective property and figure 80% of the trees larger than 4" in diameter are gone... then decide if the property will still have enough privacy to be attractive. You may be able to save a couple key trees by spraying a ton of chemicals, but there's no guarantee.

    On the flip side, the more open areas usually spring up nicely with wildflowers during early summer... and if you have enough moisture you may end up with a new aspen grove in your back yard. In any case, you'll have more than the 15 feet separating most the houses around Denver.
    The Winter Park/Fraser area is mostly lodgepole, OBD is talking about Ponderosa

  6. #6
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    Too bad rain doesn't kill pine beetles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onbelaydave
    Depending on how high above Evergreen you're looking at, at that elevation most of the trees are Ponderosa Pines, that during this outbreak, don't seem as affected as they were during the last outbreak in the early 70's..

    Yep, speaking for our little slice of CCC (Dumont), we have lots of trees on our property, but they are mostly juniper, Douglas, aspen and others. I think we have 2 lodgepoles. The forest in CCC is fairly diverse, as compared to Grand County, where they have entire mountainsides covered in lodgepoles, which I recall reading were planted as a result of reforestation efforts -- which is why there are so many of them all together. Anyway, we definitely have some beetle kill creeping in along 40 above Empire and up around Graymont, but a good portion of CCC may get off relatively easy in this particular beetle battle simply because we don't have nearly as many lodgepoles, and the ones we have aren't as densely packed.

    And incidentally, to the OP, property values in CCC have remained fairly stable, though they were far below JeffCo to begin with. Our house would be at least twice as much if it was 12 miles east. Apart from Floyd Hill, housing in CCC is cheap compared to JeffCo/Denver, there are some pretty nice homes hiding up in the hills, and property taxes are really low. It's an easy commute to Denver unless there's snow -- 45 minutes to Coors Field, 1 hour to the airport from our house, 20 minutes to Loveland, about 45 to Mary Jane. I have views of the divide from the top of the hill in our side yard, and a four-season creek right outside the bedroom window. All around, CCC is a nice hidden gem.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanD
    The Winter Park/Fraser area is mostly lodgepole, OBD is talking about Ponderosa
    Got that.. my point is they're killing the ponderosa quite efficiently as well. There's certainly less of them around compared to the lodgepoles, but they're getting just as dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdelroy
    Too bad rain doesn't kill pine beetles.
    But it does slow them down by allowing the trees to produce more sap as a defense.. I hope it keeps up all summer this year.

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    As long as you don't mind hard work it won't be a problem. I bought a lot on top of Lee Hill in North Boulder and had 5 Ponderosas hit by Mt Pine Beetle this year. After spending about 23 days over 2 years clearing the lot for future house and thinning the forest because it was too thick, I had the pleasure of spending 3 more days cutting & hand stripping bark this June (when I should have been riding!). Unfortunately there is no good process to debark the trees once cut... after trying to debark with the chainsaw I ended up using an axe because it was faster and less messy.

    As with any mt property, if you get any treed acreage, you'll inevitably spend a lot of time running a saw... but personally I enjoy that more than being stuck behind a computer all day.

    As far as property values go I don't think you'll see major devaluation. Vail and Summit County remain fairly stable and I think the Front Range infestation will be less rapid since Ponderosa are more resilient than lodgepole. If you diversify your forest a bit as well as thin it out (Ponderosas are supposed to have 10 feet of space between the crowns) you’ll be protecting your investment. You can also spray but that's fairly controversial in the mt communities due to impact on groundwater supplies.

    But like you said-- any mountain is 1,000 times better than Denver so go for it! :-)

    PS.. Check well flow rates for the adjoining wells and any homes you look at... water is an issue in a lot of these areas.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by edenger
    After spending about 23 days over 2 years clearing the lot for future house and thinning the forest because it was too thick, I had the pleasure of spending 3 more days cutting & hand stripping bark this June (when I should have been riding!). Unfortunately there is no good process to debark the trees once cut... after trying to debark with the chainsaw I ended up using an axe because it was faster and less messy.
    Why stripping vs the thick plastic wrap method? That sounds like a painful amount of work.

  12. #12
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    Thank you all for the responses!

    The property we were looking at was in Floyd Hill and unfortunately was 90% lodge-pole pines. Aparenty CCC has 25% lodge-poles but it would seem all 25% were on this property .

    I'll be checking out other area's in CCC, but we don't want more than a 45min commute, so I don't know how realistic most of CCC is. BTW Manmountain Dense I've read your posts about the great trails you guys have in CCC. It would be nice to have a few close trails that don't have a bazillion people on them. Now that we have a little girl I've stopped riding, so moving somewhere withing riding distance to the trail heads is the only hope I have of getting back on the bike.

    I also really want to get away from the noise of Denver, but I guess the hills are going to be alive with the sound of chain saws for many years to come.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

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    Well, look at it this way... there's gonna be a ton of wood for making stunts! If the values go down, I'll buy it all up and make endless trails for all of you!

    Steve71: Good luck! Mountain living is refreshing. I found the air to be cleaner than the Denver area, which was nice. We moved back down from the evergreen area because our winters were longer, and we found that we were using more of the front range ammenities than we thought. When the kiddo's get into random activities, it can make for long driving days. Perhaps the activities you get your kids into are: Widdling, logging, chainsaw repair etc.

    Find a nice lot where you can make your OWN trails! Then you won't have to worry about anyone!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    Perhaps the activities you get your kids into are: Widdling, logging, chainsaw repair etc.

    Find a nice lot where you can make your OWN trails! Then you won't have to worry about anyone!
    Hahahahaha - but what little kids don't Widdle? ... Or did you mean whittling?

    We're looking at one to two acre properties, which isn't enough for a real trail, but plenty for building some nice booters and drops.

    The plan is to keep our Denver property and rent it out. That way we can always move back if things don't work out when the kid(s) get older.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  15. #15
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    The plastic wrap -- aka solar treatment approach is not effective in Colorado according to Boulder Mt Fire Dept (referencing their experience and studies from CSU, Steamboat, etc.) The plastic wrap approach is a "solar treatment" designed to burn/kill/dry the galleries (beetle larvae/nests). In the mts where the ground is cool, finding areas with direct access to prolonged sunlight that get hot enough is tough. Thus -- the solar approach doesn't kill the beetles and they just chew right out of the plastic. I know, it's used all over Ned and isn't effective at all

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    You can always pay an afternoon nanny to run the kids to their activites. (I know, an expensive option... but leaving work to drive your kids to ballet and karate or whatever is a bit tough).

    My kids who are 10 months and 2.5 are going to spend every afternoon making and riding great single track, skinnies, and kickers on the property :-)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by edenger
    PS.. Check well flow rates for the adjoining wells and any homes you look at... water is an issue in a lot of these areas.
    Thanks for the tip!

    Quote Originally Posted by edenger
    My kids who are 10 months and 2.5 are going to spend every afternoon making and riding great single track, skinnies, and kickers on the property :-)
    Hell yeah!
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by edenger
    As long as you don't mind hard work it won't be a problem. I bought a lot on top of Lee Hill in North Boulder and had 5 Ponderosas hit by Mt Pine Beetle this year. After spending about 23 days over 2 years clearing the lot for future house and thinning the forest because it was too thick, I had the pleasure of spending 3 more days cutting & hand stripping bark this June (when I should have been riding!). Unfortunately there is no good process to debark the trees once cut... after trying to debark with the chainsaw I ended up using an axe because it was faster and less messy.

    As with any mt property, if you get any treed acreage, you'll inevitably spend a lot of time running a saw... but personally I enjoy that more than being stuck behind a computer all day.

    As far as property values go I don't think you'll see major devaluation. Vail and Summit County remain fairly stable and I think the Front Range infestation will be less rapid since Ponderosa are more resilient than lodgepole. If you diversify your forest a bit as well as thin it out (Ponderosas are supposed to have 10 feet of space between the crowns) youíll be protecting your investment. You can also spray but that's fairly controversial in the mt communities due to impact on groundwater supplies.

    But like you said-- any mountain is 1,000 times better than Denver so go for it! :-)

    PS.. Check well flow rates for the adjoining wells and any homes you look at... water is an issue in a lot of these areas.
    I live in Coal Creek Canyon. The beetles hit in the 80's and they are starting in again, although it is not as bad as many areas to the west and north just yet.

    Here is the bottom line: there is nothing you can do. So, you cut 5, or 10 or 50 trees off of your property. What about the Forest Service, State Parks, state school board land, county open space, Denver Water Board? I am within a couple of miles of all five of these public lands, and I almost border a 640 acre tract of school land and Jeffco Open Space.

    No one is treating or cutting those trees, because the job is too huge. You can do whatever you'd like to your property, but the beetles can fly a mile on their own, farther when aided by the wind, which is what you are pissing into.

    Until we get -30F for a week, the beetles will continue to move. The last time that happened in Coal Creek was in about 1989, which is what stopped the infestation that time. If you believe in global warming theory, we may never see those temps again.

  19. #19
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    Yep, Dumont is a pretty great spot. Plenty to ride right out the door, short drive to even more stuff in Evergreen, Summit and Grand County. I don't know where you work, but my wife worked near Coors Field and it took her 45-50 minutes to get there in the morning. Yeah, it was like 55-60 miles or so, but there were exactly two stoplights between our house and her office. A 45 minute commute is a whole lot easier when you're doing 70 the whole way -- I did it for a few weeks and it wasn't bad at all. The only times it was bad were snow days, and some Friday evenings, particularly preceding 3-day weekends. But otherwise, I'd take that drive over gridlock any day.

    My understanding of this particular beetle species is that, once it starts attacking trees besides lodgepoles, that's pretty much a dead end for the bug -- the larvae can't survive in anything besides lodgepoles, so even though adults attack and lay their eggs, the larvae die. So in a perverse way, if the beetles are attacking ponderosa, that's a good sign that they're running out of fuel.

    As for the plastic wrap method of sterilization... My south-facing driveway at 8K feet gets plenty hot on a sunny day, even if it's only 70 degrees. Heck, even in the winter -- our house gets lots of exposure and I rarely need to start a fire or run the furnace on sunny days, even when it's really cold.

    I got a load of suspicious firewood from Grand County a couple years ago, and the forest service in Idaho recommended the plastic wrap technique, just in case. I left it out there from June through October, until I needed to split and stack it. AFAIK, it did the job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    Thank you all for the responses!

    The property we were looking at was in Floyd Hill and unfortunately was 90% lodge-pole pines. Aparenty CCC has 25% lodge-poles but it would seem all 25% were on this property .

    I'll be checking out other area's in CCC, but we don't want more than a 45min commute, so I don't know how realistic most of CCC is. BTW Manmountain Dense I've read your posts about the great trails you guys have in CCC. It would be nice to have a few close trails that don't have a bazillion people on them. Now that we have a little girl I've stopped riding, so moving somewhere withing riding distance to the trail heads is the only hope I have of getting back on the bike.

    I also really want to get away from the noise of Denver, but I guess the hills are going to be alive with the sound of chain saws for many years to come.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manmountain Dense
    Yep, Dumont is a pretty great spot. Plenty to ride right out the door, short drive to even more stuff in Evergreen, Summit and Grand County. I don't know where you work, but my wife worked near Coors Field and it took her 45-50 minutes to get there in the morning. Yeah, it was like 55-60 miles or so, but there were exactly two stoplights between our house and her office. A 45 minute commute is a whole lot easier when you're doing 70 the whole way -- I did it for a few weeks and it wasn't bad at all. The only times it was bad were snow days, and some Friday evenings, particularly preceding 3-day weekends. But otherwise, I'd take that drive over gridlock any day.
    My wife needs to get to the Denver Tech Center so she still has a way to go on C470 once she gets down the hill. Anything past Floyd Hill puts here commute over 45mins.

    I hate traffic though and 40 miles on the I-70 sure beats 15 on the I-25 in peak hour.

    Sounds like you've got yourself a nice house there with a nice southern exposure. I'm jealous!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    My wife needs to get to the Denver Tech Center so she still has a way to go on C470 once she gets down the hill. Anything past Floyd Hill puts here commute over 45mins.

    I hate traffic though and 40 miles on the I-70 sure beats 15 on the I-25 in peak hour.

    Sounds like you've got yourself a nice house there with a nice southern exposure. I'm jealous!
    Just about everything beats having to stay on I-25. Although C-470 from I-25 to Wadsworth has pretty much useless suburb commuters who can't merge for crap.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    Just about everything beats having to stay on I-25. Although C-470 from I-25 to Wadsworth has pretty much useless suburb commuters who can't merge for crap.
    Don't forget the gravel trains merging on the Santa Fe hill at 15mph in the morning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    My wife needs to get to the Denver Tech Center so she still has a way to go on C470 once she gets down the hill. Anything past Floyd Hill puts here commute over 45mins.
    Hopefully she has the flexibility to travel on off-hours? Because the commute from Floyd Hill to the Tech Ctr DURING rush hour would a wrist-slitting experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    Just about everything beats having to stay on I-25. Although C-470 from I-25 to Wadsworth has pretty much useless suburb commuters who can't merge for crap.
    After living in Denver for eight years, my opinion of drivers here couldn't sink any lower.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    Hopefully she has the flexibility to travel on off-hours? Because the commute from Floyd Hill to the Tech Ctr DURING rush hour would a wrist-slitting experience.

    That doesn't sound good. She tends to go in early-ish and come home during the rush hour. Two or three days a week she works from home.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    My wife needs to get to the Denver Tech Center so she still has a way to go on C470 once she gets down the hill. Anything past Floyd Hill puts here commute over 45mins.

    I hate traffic though and 40 miles on the I-70 sure beats 15 on the I-25 in peak hour.

    Sounds like you've got yourself a nice house there with a nice southern exposure. I'm jealous!
    Isn't the drive to the DTC **always** awful, no matter where you're coming from? Ugh, I hate traffic.

    As for the house... Yeah, me likey.
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    Try up 285 instead. We live up there. Beetles haven't hit there really. And you'd be close to the Buffalo Creek trail system.

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    We lived in Evergreen while working in the DTC. Marshdale, actually (between conifer and evergreen). It took us 45 minutes to make the commute. about 30min between dtc and 285/c-470, and another 15 to make it home.

    Steve, How are you getting 45 minutes to Flloyd Hill? Is she taking c-470 around? Where in the DTC is she?

    Whereas the drive between the two major locations might be 45 minutes, what can kill a commute is all the backroads it takes to make it to the house. We found the cheaper places were further and further back off the main paths. Anything within a true 45 minute commute seemed to be very expensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manmountain Dense
    Isn't the drive to the DTC **always** awful, no matter where you're coming from? Ugh, I hate traffic.
    The DTC is mostly empty now-a-days. However, the T-rex project slickened up the traffic situation. The issues are now the funnel going north on I-25 & Broadway and the area on C-470 between I-25 & Broadway. Which doesn't help much, but there are alternatives (Hampden/285).

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    I wouldn't live on floyd hill if you have kids, the clear creek public school system is awful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwren00
    I wouldn't live on floyd hill if you have kids, the clear creek public school system is awful.
    True dat, but then, if I had kids, I wouldn't trust **any** public school system to actually teach my kids anything useful. Lots of my friends are teachers. Good friends of mine. They're good guys, but I would never entrust them with my child's education. Knowing that they're teaching upcoming generations scares the heII out of me.

    This is why I have dogs...

    Our place is actually very close to the highway, but ID is right, buying a place that's back in the hills can just kill your commute. And there are lots of properties that say they're in Idaho Springs that are actually heII and gone up Fall River Road, so they look good on the MLS, but when you actually try to visit them, you realize you'll need a snowcat to get home come January...

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    We lived in Evergreen while working in the DTC. Marshdale, actually (between conifer and evergreen). It took us 45 minutes to make the commute. about 30min between dtc and 285/c-470, and another 15 to make it home.
    It has been awhile since you did that drive, eh?

    In the morning you would be LUCKY to make it from Wads -> I-25 in 35 minutes during rush. And figure 40-45 minutes in the afternoon to Wads.

    I quit 470 and drove surface streets to the DTC. At least it was a consistent 30 minutes to get to/from work.

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    Yeah, Its been a while. I still go down there to see clients. I just haven't a clue how anyone could make floyd hill to DTC in 45 minutes during the average commute times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manmountain Dense
    Isn't the drive to the DTC **always** awful, no matter where you're coming from? Ugh, I hate traffic.

    As for the house... Yeah, me likey.
    Yes, traffic is just a 'life sucking hell' on wheels. Nice house BTW.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    Yeah, Its been a while. I still go down there to see clients. I just haven't a clue how anyone could make floyd hill to DTC in 45 minutes during the average commute times.
    No way in hell could it be done except during off-hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray6503
    Try up 285 instead. We live up there. Beetles haven't hit there really. And you'd be close to the Buffalo Creek trail system.
    We've seen some contenders up that way. In fact we just missed out on a foreclose on Cityview.

    I've ridden Buffalo Creek a lot in the past, but my 6" bike and I love the chunky goodness at Bergen, Matty Winters, WR, Apex and the Three Sisters. I don't tend to ride DCC, Waterton or Buffalo / Indian creek area much. The up coming free ride trail at BC looks promising and having Kenosha pass just up the road would be nice.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure

    Steve, How are you getting 45 minutes to Flloyd Hill? Is she taking c-470 around? Where in the DTC is she?
    It's not exactly DTC... her work is a few miles east of the c470/I-70 junction. The house were were very interested in (but got talked out of) in the Floyd hill area was only 5 mins from the I-25. Google maps estimated 45min in normal traffic. We timed 15min from the hose to the Matty winters parking lot, which is really the more important metric.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwren00
    I wouldn't live on floyd hill if you have kids, the clear creek public school system is awful.
    Thanks, that is good to know. Our little girl is only 11months, but she'll be school age before we know it.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    No way in hell could it be done except during off-hours.
    45mins on a good day is OK, but if it takes over an hour most of the time, then I think we'll have to cross that of our list.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    Thanks, that is good to know. Our little girl is only 11months, but she'll be school age before we know it.
    You're not kidding. Mine are 8, 6, and 4 now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    You're not kidding. Mine are 8, 6, and 4 now.
    Three kids? Man you must be a glutton for punishment.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    It's not exactly DTC... her work is a few miles east of the c470/I-70 junction. The house were were very interested in (but got talked out of) in the Floyd hill area was only 5 mins from the I-25. Google maps estimated 45min in normal traffic. We timed 15min from the hose to the Matty winters parking lot, which is really the more important metric.
    EH?

    C-470 & I-70 is Golden / Lakewood; are you sure you didn't mean C-470 & I-25?
    (Based on that, you could live in Georgetown and make it in 45)

    A house in Floyd Hill that is 5 minutes from I-25?! SAWEEET! Buy it.

    Me thinks you got your 70's and 25's mixed up.

    Thats a big haul. If I could suggest a few things prior to buying in the mountains...
    1. Drive the route in off hours from the house to your work.
    2. Drive the route during heavy traffic times, or slight off heavy traffic times.
    3. Do this drive from work to home on Friday afternoon.

    I wish I had before buying in Evergreen. I bought back so many hours by re-locating closer to denver... hours I can bike with!

    You should be able to find a place in the mountains; but is seems that commute time is a big variable in housing costs. Several area's in the evergreen area have lost a ton of value (Due to the economy, housing bubble and rise in gas). You should be able to pick up a great deal with a good commute.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    Three kids? Man you must be a glutton for punishment.
    And they're all boys.

    They're eating me out of house and home.

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    We live almost to Bailey. It takes me 45 minutes to get to Golden. There's pretty much no traffic except if it snows. Just tell your wife to get a job in Golden...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    And they're all boys.

    They're eating me out of house and home.
    yee can have all the food ya want lads, but just don't touch the beer. That mah beer boooys!

  46. #46
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    Thinking outside of the box: you might try the Larkspur area or northern Black Forest. It's not exactly "mountains" but you would never know it when you're looking out the window. We just bought in the southern part of Black Forest and it takes me 45 minutes to drive to DTC so if you bought somewhere in DougCo, it should be even faster.

    There is kinda a dead spot regarding trails between Monument and Indian Creek, but the Springs isn't too far away. I think there has to be a few stashes in Larkspur somewhere under the radar, but I haven't heard of riding there.

    I hope the Ponderosas are less prone to beetle infestation--I probably have a hundred of them now!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by kristian
    <snip>
    I hope the Ponderosas are less prone to beetle infestation--I probably have a hundred of them now!
    Don't bet on it.

    http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05528.html

    Note the pine beetle's scientific name: Dendroctonus ponderosae

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    Don't bet on it.

    http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05528.html

    Note the pine beetle's scientific name: Dendroctonus ponderosae
    We had a wave pass through here about 15 years ago, and I've still got some dead trees standing (that I need to get rid of). I'm hoping that those that were not effected are tough enough to deal. That is a good link though--I appreciate knowing more about the enemy...

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure

    Me thinks you got your 70's and 25's mixed up.

    Thats a big haul. If I could suggest a few things prior to buying in the mountains...
    1. Drive the route in off hours from the house to your work.
    2. Drive the route during heavy traffic times, or slight off heavy traffic times.
    3. Do this drive from work to home on Friday afternoon.
    Yeah, sorry meant I-25 and c-470.

    Good idea on driving the routes. I've done the afternoon haul from Denver to Evergreen via I-70 a zillion times around 6:00-6:30pm to go riding and traffic is fine. Don't know about the mornings though. We also used to leave Denver Friday arvo's to go camping in the mountains just about every week and traffic wasn't too bad except for the holiday week-ends. But that was years ago now and never in the winter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray6503
    We live almost to Bailey. It takes me 45 minutes to get to Golden. There's pretty much no traffic except if it snows. Just tell your wife to get a job in Golden...
    Bailey would be nice and that's a great section of 285 to drive every day. I could be wrong, but I think it would be hard for my wife to find a similar job in Golden... at lest one that pays the same with similar career opportunities.

    Quote Originally Posted by kristian
    Thinking outside of the box: you might try the Larkspur area or northern Black Forest. It's not exactly "mountains" but you would never know it when you're looking out the window. We just bought in the southern part of Black Forest and it takes me 45 minutes to drive to DTC so if you bought somewhere in DougCo, it should be even faster.
    I like that area, but the lack of close trails is a deal breaker.... unless we could find a nice house on 30+ acres so I could build some private trails.

    There's some open space near Frank town, it's just a pity they don't let the bikes in.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    I like that area, but the lack of close trails is a deal breaker.... unless we could find a nice house on 30+ acres so I could build some private trails.

    There's some open space near Frank town, it's just a pity they don't let the bikes in.
    We too sort of considered that area. Problem is, it breaks one of my cardinal rules of the front range (Never be dependant on I-25). ugh... that road is just plain scary, and you'll be commuting too far to the rides (like you said).

    Have you considered Golden?

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    1-2 acres above Golden, at the top of CG would be nice, but I hazard a guess it's completely out of our price range.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  52. #52
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    ned is where it's at.

  53. #53
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    I've been looking up there sometimes, and it's $$$. Sometimes you can find things in a halfway decent price range, but if there's a house on it, it needs LOTS of work. If no house, the land is pretty pricey.
    There are 2 lots right at the top of CG that have been for sale for years. They'd be sweet, but are pretty expensive, then you'd have to pray there was water down there and build a house!
    Look up realtor ? Crego - they are on his website.
    Don't have time right now, or I'd link it for you.

    Edit nevermind - here's one of them - maybe the other one finally sold?
    http://www.listingvue.com/Colorado-L...r-Sale-1119650
    Old Codger

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    Quote Originally Posted by nOOby
    ned is where it's at.
    ...and the commute to the DTC would be what, 2 hours?

    I like Ned, but it is a ways away from the DTC.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    1-2 acres above Golden, at the top of CG would be nice, but I hazard a guess it's completely out of our price range.
    I gave up looking for big lots in the front range a long time ago. We changed our criteria to "Has to be adjacent to open space", which gave us the room between houses. We found it here in Golden.

    Location relative to 'play' was very important for us. the big lot we had in Evergreen was nice, but we're a bit more social... and we ended up driving to go ride anyways. We paid through the nose (at the time) for a house on open space, but we wouldn't have it any other way.

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    There's also the lot right across the street from the top of Apex, but I think it's' only 1/2 acre, and I think it was "down to" $169k last time I looked.
    Old Codger

  57. #57
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    the problem lies in the DTC then.


    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    ...and the commute to the DTC would be what, 2 hours?

    I like Ned, but it is a ways away from the DTC.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad andy!
    I've been looking up there sometimes, and it's $$$. Sometimes you can find things in a halfway decent price range, but if there's a house on it, it needs LOTS of work. If no house, the land is pretty pricey.
    There are 2 lots right at the top of CG that have been for sale for years. They'd be sweet, but are pretty expensive, then you'd have to pray there was water down there and build a house!
    Look up realtor ? Crego - they are on his website.
    Don't have time right now, or I'd link it for you.

    Edit nevermind - here's one of them - maybe the other one finally sold?
    http://www.listingvue.com/Colorado-L...r-Sale-1119650
    Thanks Andy, that block of land looks wonderful and for 5 acres it looks pretty reasonable price wise, but then we would have nothing left for a house.

    We took a long hard look at a piece of land up near Hoosier Pass about 5 years ago. Even sizing up a block of land can be an ordeal. Maybe for a retirement house I'd build something, but for now it's got to have a house on it.

    Also I think banks want something like 40% down on land and I guess it'd be hard to get financing to fund the actual house.
    Last edited by Steve71; 07-09-2009 at 01:32 PM.
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  59. #59
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    construction loans are usually much higher APR on a short term(6mos) loan. then you refinance on completion.

    land might be 100% down.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    Thanks Andy, that block of land looks wonderful and for 5 acres it looks pretty reasonable price wise, but then we would have nothing left for a house.
    3 words: Get a yurt.


  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    I gave up looking for big lots in the front range a long time ago. We changed our criteria to "Has to be adjacent to open space", which gave us the room between houses. We found it here in Golden.

    Location relative to 'play' was very important for us. the big lot we had in Evergreen was nice, but we're a bit more social... and we ended up driving to go ride anyways. We paid through the nose (at the time) for a house on open space, but we wouldn't have it any other way.
    Who knows if mountain living will work out for us long term, but I think we're pretty good candidates. Honestly the front range trails are getting pretty crowded. I can remember regularly riding CG eight years ago and only seeing a few other people on the trail. Plenty of public land up in CCC and I'm sure no one would care if you made use of it if it's out your back door.

    It's very cool that you have a house in Golden that backs onto open space! Back in Australia the wife and I rented a house that backed onto open space AND the university we went to was inside the same open space. We got to mountain bike through the forest to uni.

    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...45447&t=h&z=15
    Last edited by Steve71; 07-09-2009 at 01:48 PM.
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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    3 words: Get a yurt.

    Too Boulder-ish.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    Too Boulder-ish.


    I wasn't aware that they made 5,000 sq ft yurts.


  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles


    I wasn't aware that they made 5,000 sq ft yurts.

    Yeah, I think the boulder version comes with a Range Rover and BMW as well.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles


    I wasn't aware that they made 5,000 sq ft yurts.

    Boulder Yurt

    http://www.yurtvillage.co.uk/picture...and%20yurt.jpg
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    Holy $hit. That yurt is actually MORE Boulder than Boulder itself.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    Holy $hit. That yurt is actually MORE Boulder than Boulder itself.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

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    Are there any trails in Pike National Forest behind Roxborough state park?
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

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    I'm dredging this thread up again as we now have a house under contract.

    It's in Conifer on a southern facing 5 acre block about 5mins from 285 and about 45 mins to my wifes work, more in traffic. The lot is gently sloping with a variety of pine trees at varying ages. We really like the house and lot but there's no garage and the heat appears to be *electric* base board. The house has two glass walls that are 24 feet tall that face south and west so on sunny days heat should be no problem. The current occupants claim about $500 a month to heat the place. The driveway isn't steep but we might need a plow now and then as the Forester doesn't have huge clearance.

    Anyway... inspection is next week. Aside from the usual stuff + well and septic inspection is there anything else I should be checking for on a mountain home? ... BTW schools are good.

    I feel dumb for asking, but everyone keep saying how 'different' mountain living is and how it's not for everyone etc. I lived in summit for 8 months and it all looks good to me, but am I missing something? I'm an Aussie... I know beaches not mountains.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    I'm dredging this thread up again as we now have a house under contract.

    It's in Conifer on a southern facing 5 acre block about 5mins from 285 and about 45 mins to my wifes work, more in traffic. The lot is gently sloping with a variety of pine trees at varying ages. We really like the house and lot but there's no garage and the heat appears to be *electric* base board. The house has two glass walls that are 24 feet tall that face south and west so on sunny days heat should be no problem. The current occupants claim about $500 a month to heat the place. The driveway isn't steep but we might need a plow now and then as the Forester doesn't have huge clearance.

    Anyway... inspection is next week. Aside from the usual stuff + well and septic inspection is there anything else I should be checking for on a mountain home? ... BTW schools are good.

    I feel dumb for asking, but everyone keep saying how 'different' mountain living is and how it's not for everyone etc. I lived in summit for 8 months and it all looks good to me, but am I missing something? I'm an Aussie... I know beaches not mountains.
    My two cents having lived a few years in Ned and currently undergoing major reconstruction on a few acres:

    1) As you mentioned, have the septic thoroughly inspected, including having the tank pumped. Septic repairs = $$$

    2) Along the same lines, find out how many bedrooms the septic is permitted for by getting a copy of the original permit from the owner or from the county health authority. Often you'll find out the septic may have been permitted for X bedrooms and then an addition was added over time. This will create an issue if you ever want to do future expansion as you may have to upgrade your septic.

    3) If the place has a crawlspace, get down in there and give it a thorough visual inspection. If raccoons or other critters have been in there they can do a serious number on wiring and floor insulation.

    4) Radon - get it professionally tested

    5) Asbestos - if the place was build before the mid 70's, there's a good chance you'll have asbestos in the drywall joint compound and any original vinyl tile or sheet vinyl (and possibly old pipe wrap). Not a big deal if you don't plan to disturb it by changing anything, but $$$ if you ever want to remodel.

    6) Grey water - make sure that all the shower and washer drains go into your main septic line. Sometimes they'll be ran into a separate greywater basin.. you could continue using it, but it's not environmentally friendly and would likely have to be abandoned if the health authority found out.

    7) Look for double tapped circuits in your main panel.. another ghetto mountain trick.

    8) Grab a compass and check if the house sits true north/south. If those big windows have Low-E glass then they'll actually deflect the southern heat if the house is angled by more than 5-7 degrees (depending on window manufacturer) and you'll end up with minimal passive solar gain and a lot of heat loss through the glass.

    9) Roof age - altitude sun exposure + high winds + big snow loads are hell on roofs up here. If it's old, you'll likely need to fix it.

    10) Be okay doing without power on occasions.. It's part of mountain life.

    11) Get used to spiders. Smaller ones live under nearly every single rock. They will find a way inside every spring and fall in older construction.

    12) Small pets = bait. If you have a small dog realize it'll need to live mainly inside. The foxes will grab it the minute you let it roam loose.

    The rest is just common sense stuff.. more snow, more wind, etc. Pick up a good snowblower or contract with your local plow guy and you'll be fine.

    PS - check who does the trash service.. you may have to contract it so factor that into your utilities. Also, not having a garage, you'll still need a place to secure your trash. Leaving the cans sitting out back will not work out.

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    Wow, thanks for that very informative answer thump! Quite a few things in there I hadn't considered.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    Holy $hit. That yurt is actually MORE Boulder than Boulder itself.
    What's funny is that you can't put a yurt on land in Boulder County as a permanent residence...we already looked into it.

  73. #73
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    Dude! Congrats! I've been thinking about you and your family and if that house was going to work out for you. Looks like things are moving in a good direction. Are you going to sell your downtown home or rent it out? Cathy says hi to you and Shaye.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    I'm dredging this thread up again as we now have a house under contract.

    It's in Conifer on a southern facing 5 acre block about 5mins from 285 and about 45 mins to my wifes work, more in traffic. The lot is gently sloping with a variety of pine trees at varying ages. We really like the house and lot but there's no garage and the heat appears to be *electric* base board. The house has two glass walls that are 24 feet tall that face south and west so on sunny days heat should be no problem. The current occupants claim about $500 a month to heat the place. The driveway isn't steep but we might need a plow now and then as the Forester doesn't have huge clearance.

    Anyway... inspection is next week. Aside from the usual stuff + well and septic inspection is there anything else I should be checking for on a mountain home? ... BTW schools are good.

    I feel dumb for asking, but everyone keep saying how 'different' mountain living is and how it's not for everyone etc. I lived in summit for 8 months and it all looks good to me, but am I missing something? I'm an Aussie... I know beaches not mountains.
    Summit isn't mountain living, places like warren gulch off little bear creek are mountain living, places you need a real 4x4 with chains on all wheels and a plow.
    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...38581&t=h&z=15

  75. #75
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    $500 a month? how big is it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mouse jockey
    Dude! Congrats! I've been thinking about you and your family and if that house was going to work out for you. Looks like things are moving in a good direction. Are you going to sell your downtown home or rent it out? Cathy says hi to you and Shaye.
    Thanks Tom! We're keeping our current house and renting it out - we just refinanced early this year when rates were rock bottom so it should work out OK.

    It's a shame we didn't get more rides in this year, but hopefully the weather will be kinder next year.

    Speaking of riding, I was showing my nephew how to jump on a old rigid bike back in Australia the other week. Next thing I know I woke up and didn't remember where I was or anything from the last year. I wasn't wearing a helmet (duh!) and landed on my face. First time in my life I've ever landed on my head and I wasn't wearing a f'ing helmet. I was out cold for 5min and couldn't remember anything for 45mins. My nose is broken and I have to have surgery but I got off lucky with just a lot of swelling and a few scrapes, but no cuts.

    Anyway say G'day to Cathy for us and Lily sends hugs and kisses to Stassie. I hope all is well with you guys!
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    <snip>
    Speaking of riding, I was showing my nephew how to jump on a old rigid bike back in Australia the other week. Next thing I know I woke up and didn't remember where I was or anything from the last year. I wasn't wearing a helmet (duh!) and landed on my face. First time in my life I've ever landed on my head and I wasn't wearing a f'ing helmet. I was out cold for 5min and couldn't remember anything for 45mins. My nose is broken and I have to have surgery but I got off lucky with just a lot of swelling and a few scrapes, but no cuts.
    Man... if there was any question that Aussies are dumb as a jar of frogs... this totally answers it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ChromedToast
    Summit isn't mountain living, places like warren gulch off little bear creek are mountain living, places you need a real 4x4 with chains on all wheels and a plow.
    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...38581&t=h&z=15
    I couldn't agree more and that's why I don't understand people's reservations/warnings. The new house isn't remote in the least. It does feel remote looking out the windows though - not a house to be seen.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shrederland
    $500 a month? how big is it?
    It's 2,800 sq ft but I think $500 a month for heating doesn't include the basement so lets say 2,000. The ceilings are very high in the great room (28 ft) and there are lots of windows which doesn't help I'm sure.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    Man... if there was any question that Aussies are dumb as a jar of frogs... this totally answers it.

    Mate, I feel dumb on so many levels with this one it's not even funny.

    But you can't lump the whole of Australia in with me. It's illegal to ride a bike without a helmet in Oz.

    Or maybe you're right and we need laws to protect us from our dumb selves.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  81. #81
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    Nice job buying in Conifer, great place.

    If you're not averse to work, take heating with wood into serious consideration, you can get a stove & all the wood you will need for a season for about 3-4 months of heating costs.

    I've got a smaller place but including diesel & chainsaw gas I pay about $45 a year for all the wood I need. You just need to get to know the right people that need to get rid of wood. I know a guy in Evergreen that needs to get rid of about 60 cords of de-limbed wood that just needs to be loaded. You don't have to pay big $$ for wood.

    As for values, I feel very comfortable being a bit outside of town & in a relatively accessible location, I own two in clear creek (I live just above Mountainman dense) and have seen VERY little to no value loss in our properties, one has nearly doubled from what I purchased it for just 4 or so years ago. I feel very comfortable in saying that buying right now puts you in a position of buying right so you're carrying little risk imo.


    Enjoy, you'll love it over there!
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    Mate, I feel dumb on so many levels with this one it's not even funny.

    But you can't lump the whole of Australia in with me. It's illegal to ride a bike without a helmet in Oz.
    See... that's the thing - I think you're probably one of the SMART ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by backcountryislife
    Nice job buying in Conifer, great place.

    If you're not averse to work, take heating with wood into serious consideration, you can get a stove & all the wood you will need for a season for about 3-4 months of heating costs.

    I've got a smaller place but including diesel & chainsaw gas I pay about $45 a year for all the wood I need. You just need to get to know the right people that need to get rid of wood. I know a guy in Evergreen that needs to get rid of about 60 cords of de-limbed wood that just needs to be loaded. You don't have to pay big $$ for wood.

    As for values, I feel very comfortable being a bit outside of town & in a relatively accessible location, I own two in clear creek (I live just above Mountainman dense) and have seen VERY little to no value loss in our properties, one has nearly doubled from what I purchased it for just 4 or so years ago. I feel very comfortable in saying that buying right now puts you in a position of buying right so you're carrying little risk imo.


    Enjoy, you'll love it over there!
    Thanks the post backcountryislife. We're going to look into a stove of some sort either a wood burner or a pellet stove. $45 a season sure sounds better than $500 a month.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    See... that's the thing - I think you're probably one of the SMART ones.
    Well I was before I hit my head .
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  85. #85
    killin clear creek
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    Thanks the post backcountryislife. We're going to look into a stove of some sort either a wood burner or a pellet stove. $45 a season sure sounds better than $500 a month.

    Make sure you do a price comparison on pellets, it's nowhere near apples to apples, they aren't really a savings over gas at their current rates. The recently proposed pellet plant in Kremmtukky MAY change that, but in general unless you just can't do the work that wood requires, it's MUCH cheaper.

    Also, pellet stoves require electricity, so when the power goes out...
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by backcountryislife
    Make sure you do a price comparison on pellets, it's nowhere near apples to apples, they aren't really a savings over gas at their current rates. The recently proposed pellet plant in Kremmtukky MAY change that, but in general unless you just can't do the work that wood requires, it's MUCH cheaper.

    Also, pellet stoves require electricity, so when the power goes out...
    Thanks for the info. How many hours would you estimate it takes you each year to collect & prepare the wood and run/maintain the stove?
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    Thanks for the info. How many hours would you estimate it takes you each year to collect & prepare the wood and run/maintain the stove?
    It all depends how tolerant your wife is to cold.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by backcountryislife
    (I live just above Mountainman dense)
    I would think that fact alone would drop the property values at least 10-20%???



    Old Codger

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad andy!
    I would think that fact alone would drop the property values at least 10-20%???



    Well... I did get it pretty cheap, that may have been a factor...


    Steve, scaredshtles has got a good point!! My wife is willing to help & deal with the wood, if I was alone, it might be less enjoyable!

    As for me, cutting/ loading/ stacking etc.
    I probably spend 15 hours a year max but I get wood from places that cost me minimal time.
    One good resource is Hester's sawmill in Kremmling for example, you can show up, hand them a $5 bill & the give you a bundle of wood that is 8' long by 4+' round, fills your truck to the top of the cab & takes minimal time to cut because it's bundled so you just slice through it & stack it.

    As for the daily stoking/ loading, probably about 15-20 min a day?

    I guess a lot of this depends on what your time is worth to you, I'm REALLY picky about my free time, but I actually enjoy cutting & dealing with the wood.

    Another thing to consider, in heating with gas you're using fuel from the companies that so many people whine about for exploiting our resources, in heating with wood, you're helping to use up beetle kill that needs to be cut whether we like it or not.

    Ten years from now that may change, but for now, it's a pretty smart choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

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    Think about what you need

    to deal with the wood.

    Stove - $500-5K, new or used there will be installation cost which will vary on how much you have to adapt your house to make something fit.
    Truck - 2k for a decent full size beater, of course add in insurance, fuel and service.
    Saw - $700 for a decent saw, parts, fuel and safety equipment.
    Splitter - $40-$300 I don't think you need to split all your wood, I think rounds burn longer, but you have to get the fire started with something. A splitting maul at the minimum or a mech splitter.
    Time - If you add up the collection time + daily duties you are well over one weeks time for the winter.

    Does the house have modern windows, sealing up the house makes huge gains on heating costs. Also keep in mind IREA, your new electric co-op is raising rates considerably this year too.

    You will really like it up here, there are so many amenities now in Aspen Park / Conifer that it makes things very easy.

    What neighborhood are you in?

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    If you can get natural gas, the cost to convert from electric would be well worth it.

    If you can't, do NOT consider switching to propane. I have been running propane for over 20 years, and the cost is just getting out of hand. When I started using it, it was 50 cents a gallon, now it is about $2.50. It came close to $4.00 last winter. It tracks the price of gasoline very closely, even though they burn off the excess at the refineries. My propane guy told me that at $2.30 a gallon, there are efficient electric heat systems that are cheaper to run that the average propane forced air furnace. If you have a propane fired boiler system it is better, but still very expensive.

    I also have a pellet stove, and a wood fireplace. I use all three of my heating systems. I run the furnace as little as possible, my pellet stove quite a bit, and my fireplace as much as I can. If you have good southern exposure as you mentioned, you can just everything off most days in the foothills and still have a house at 60 degrees when you come home. I never have my house warmer than 65F in winter and at night it is 58F.

  92. #92
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    I spend about 1000-1200 a year on heating including the gas fire hot tub(wood stove and propane central heating). We live in a 1300sq ft. A-frame, so pretty efficient.

  93. #93
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    Steve congratulations--you're going to love living on land! I had planned to start building trails right away after moving in, but we were so busy doing other stuff that I haven't broken ground yet. This is a good thing though as I've changed my mind several times on where/what I want to build. Plan out your routes and post up--I'm sure you'll get a lot of help from the MTBR community (I'm planning a BBQ this spring to bribe helpers at my house).

    Good information in the post above! Our inspection found radon and we got $$ off the purchase price to mitigate it. The total cost for us was $1,800 or so which included a vapor barrier in the crawl space and a fan system to get it out. The vapor barrier is nice because now it makes the crawl space more usable for storage. We also got a new roof out of the inspection.

    The seller in my case (the son of the dececed owner) was not able to produce a septic report, so we're kinda winging that one still while we wait for our other house to sell finally. Hopefully that's not going to bite us.

    Hire a plow service for the winter and wince every time you have to write a check ($60 in my case for a steep 300 foot gravel driveway). I plan to use this expense as leverage to help my case that "honey, we really need a tractor if we're going to live out here".

    The electric heat bites, but look into a solar system to offset your electrical. There are a lot of credits out there for solar so you this could offset a lot of the expense. I don't have electric heat, but we're going to do solar next spring as a step towards getting off the grid. If you have an average wind speed of more than 8mph, there are several interesting consumer wind turbines to consider too for those cloudy days.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by kristian
    Plan out your routes and post up--I'm sure you'll get a lot of help from the MTBR community (I'm planning a BBQ this spring to bribe helpers at my house).
    Same plan I have.. already have 30 yards of fill dirt waiting to become a jump line.

    Quote Originally Posted by kristian
    Hire a plow service for the winter and wince every time you have to write a check ($60 in my case for a steep 300 foot gravel driveway). I plan to use this expense as leverage to help my case that "honey, we really need a tractor if we're going to live out here".
    +1.. You can pick up a nice used smaller backhoe with plow for about 14K. I'm seriously selling my wife on the value proposition. It was very cool to watch this guy take down our old garage, smack down a dozen trees and dig new footings in less than a day with a big one.
    Pine Beetle and Evergreen/Clear Creek County Property Values?-resized_p1010519.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by kristian
    ...but we're going to do solar next spring as a step towards getting off the grid.
    Nooo.. stay away from the solar (I ripped our old one out, the maintenance is horrid). Photovoltaic is where it's at these days..

  95. #95
    killin clear creek
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    Quote Originally Posted by mateomtb
    to deal with the wood.

    Stove - $500-5K, new or used there will be installation cost which will vary on how much you have to adapt your house to make something fit.
    Truck - 2k for a decent full size beater, of course add in insurance, fuel and service.
    Saw - $700 for a decent saw, parts, fuel and safety equipment.
    Splitter - $40-$300 I don't think you need to split all your wood, I think rounds burn longer, but you have to get the fire started with something. A splitting maul at the minimum or a mech splitter.
    Time - If you add up the collection time + daily duties you are well over one weeks time for the winter.
    some of these are the reason I get most of my wood from Hesters, you don't need as big a saw for the slabwood, you don't have to split, and you save a TON of time.

    It's definitely a commitment though, for sure. I think I'd be committED if I had to pay $500 to heat a house though!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump
    Photovoltaic is where it's at these days..
    Yeah, that's what I meant--I forgot that there are cheezy solar "air" heat systems out there. I was meaning a photovoltaic system to help fire the electric radiators.

    My father in law bought a nice Kubuto with a scoop and a back hoe new last year for $21k, and I've seen decent looking tractors for as little as $6k on Craigs list. The key here is knowing what to look for when buying used (which I have no idea about). Luckily, I have family to help me out with that.

  97. #97
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    Thanks for all the info and well wishes guys! Although inspection is next Wednesday and since this is a 'short sale' the bank is selling it as-is, no negiation on price based on inspection. Basically if it has something major wrong we have to walk away.

    I really want to build trails and some FRish stuff on the land but that might be a while off. Little children and spare time don't go hand in hand, but initial scouting shows great potential for a drop behind the house, so that's a start.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump

    +1.. You can pick up a nice used smaller backhoe with plow for about 14K. I'm seriously selling my wife on the value proposition.
    Yes, something along those lines would be the sh!t for building trail features and jumps.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by mateomtb
    What neighborhood are you in?
    It's called Conifer Meadows.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  100. #100
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    Yeah

    Quote Originally Posted by backcountryislife
    some of these are the reason I get most of my wood from Hesters, you don't need as big a saw for the slabwood, you don't have to split, and you save a TON of time.

    It's definitely a commitment though, for sure. I think I'd be committED if I had to pay $500 to heat a house though!!!!
    I agree $500 is steep, if he's all electric he needs a stove.

    We actually have nat gas service in our hood and it's not exactly cheap, but it is convenient. Although our winter bills in the mountains are higher the grand total for the year was similar to our city bills because there we had year round costs with heating and cooling.

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