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  1. #1
    Yappy little dog!
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    OT: Need a Lawyer

    Before you all start thinking, it's a very specific and on-going thing since I moved in.

    Anyway, I am not sure exactly what type of Lawyer I should contact or who. I need a Lawyer who will write a Cease and Desist letter to my neighbor who has continually harassed my family (most notably my 82 year old Mother-in-Law since we moved in. There's a lot more to this (including some unethical HOA stuff he did too - he is Treasurer). The other day he harassed my MIL when she went to get the mail. She was shaking all day and I had to deal with it on the phone during work.

    Hope someone can point me in the right direction. It's been three years of Hell from this bastard. There is nothing worse than an A$$hole neighbor.

    I've called a bunch of local Real Estate attorneys but they don't deal with that kind of stuff. I have already fought the HOA once and I don't have the energy to do it again.

  2. #2
    FleshwoundGravityResearch
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    Attorney Alternatives

    But seriously, good luck.

  3. #3
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    Sorry to hear about this. I would probably talk to a good criminal attorney first. I don't know one and am not in town so I can chk with my office folks, but I'm positive there are several good ones around. Sometimes, a letter from a criminal attorney will solve the problem.

  4. #4
    still riding
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    yeah , I'm thinking restraining order over cease and desist here.

  5. #5
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    I'd contact Rontele at COMBA. He'd likely point you in the right direction. Either that or he'll just empty your wallet.

  6. #6
    drinks from the fountain
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    My father in Law was an attorney. On issues like this he said a nice letter will usually do the trick.
    So you dont have to pay a retainer. You could even make your own with a fancy letterhead.

    Fear works well too. You want for me to stop by with Moose and Rocco?
    "I dont know Karate but I do know K RAZY! " James Brown

    Seriously goood luck.
    pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

  7. #7
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    I'd contact Rontele at COMBA. He'd likely point you in the right direction. Either that or he'll just empty your wallet.

    Now that was funny! Thank you.

  8. #8
    !Vamos, flaco!
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    I am an attorney and I do not want your case. However, the Colorado Bar Association has a "Find a Lawyer" feature I have referred people to before. http://www.cobar.org/directory/

    Most attorneys worth anything, or at least, the ones you will want to work with, will talk to you and hear you out to decide if they can or should take the case before you pay anything. Before speaking with them, get a good idea of what you want and try to get all the facts straight. I only mention this because you said there's a lot more to this . . . The more you help your attorney out, the better representation you'll get and the cheaper it'll be. Don't be afraid to call several attorneys before picking one.
    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

  9. #9
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmosebar
    My father in Law was an attorney. On issues like this he said a nice letter will usually do the trick.
    So you dont have to pay a retainer. You could even make your own with a fancy letterhead.

    Fear works well too. You want for me to stop by with Moose and Rocco?
    "I dont know Karate but I do know K RAZY! " James Brown

    Seriously goood luck.

    I tried the "nice" approach. I got the door slammed in my face. Then I got nasty. The result? $3500 in landscaping to block him, no basketball hoop for my kids, and he had to take his deer statue down from the front of his house (which I didn't really care about but it was to prove a point). Yeah, I got the $h!t end of the stick. It's very hard to deal with an a$$hat like that, especially when he is an officer on the HOA BoD. One that needs a 67% majority to replace. Oh, and did I mention that the homeowners need to be physically present in order to vote? The meetings are at 5:00PM. Good luck on that.

    I am not a violent person, although he did try to jump over a table at me during an HOA meeting.

  10. #10
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pabs
    I am an attorney and I do not want your case. However, the Colorado Bar Association has a "Find a Lawyer" feature I have referred people to before. http://www.cobar.org/directory/

    Most attorneys worth anything, or at least, the ones you will want to work with, will talk to you and hear you out to decide if they can or should take the case before you pay anything. Before speaking with them, get a good idea of what you want and try to get all the facts straight. I only mention this because you said there's a lot more to this . . . The more you help your attorney out, the better representation you'll get and the cheaper it'll be. Don't be afraid to call several attorneys before picking one.
    Thanks for the advice and link. I will give it a shot.

  11. #11
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    schnauzers,

    I sent you and email with a referral to a good friend (he's a mountain biker too!). I think he can be of assistance.

  12. #12
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rontele
    schnauzers,

    I sent you and email with a referral to a good friend (he's a mountain biker too!). I think he can be of assistance.

    Thank you!

  13. #13
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    What a load of Kraap! Attorneys are about money and more money. A good attorney wants money! Oh did I tell you they want money??? And another thing! All this boa dtr krt mbd lostkm $hit is ruining America. Go pull your pants up.

    OK I admit it! I'm a hypocrite. I just hate the A word.
    Last edited by jimbowho; 01-16-2010 at 04:56 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbowho
    What a load of Kraap! Attorneys are about money and more money. A good attorney wants money! Oh did I tell you they want money??? And another thing! All this boa dtr krt mbd lostkm $hit is ruining America. Go pull your pants up.

    nice job.

  15. #15
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    If it wasn't for lawyers we wouldn't need lawyers. I heard that once. Nothing to add, really, just subscribing. I've had "Children of The Corn" neighbors before but never brought a lawyer into play. I just moved. Got great neighbors now.

    You know what they say about neighbors? The best you can hope for is that they leave you alone. Anything better is just a bonus.
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  16. #16
    .
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    i don't think i've ever heard a good story about HOA's

  17. #17
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    Just two words: molotov cocktail
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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  18. #18
    holding back the darkness
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    HOA's are the devil.
    Completely un-american to begin with.
    have you tried getting the police involved? Harrassment, possibly assault... build your history.

  19. #19
    MFin' Princess
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y
    Just two words: molotov cocktail
    One word: move.

    Or, let it all go and befriend him, somehow.

    In this, if you're right you lose and if you win you lose. It's lose / lose proposition no matter the outcome of any efforts, any lawyering. Ultimately, what you want is to enjoy your home, right? Why dump time and efforts and energy into a guaranteed lose / lose situation?

    I'd find any avenue for the win, and focus there.

    Sorry to hear this, it would truly suck.

  20. #20
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    your mom in law fits the perfect fit for an elderly person at risk. Get the loca LEOS in with some complaints. Felonies and ****. That will help with the court order being next. Can't tyupe on pain kiillers. ****.
    WTF

  21. #21
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVC15
    One word: move.

    Or, let it all go and befriend him, somehow.

    In this, if you're right you lose and if you win you lose. It's lose / lose proposition no matter the outcome of any efforts, any lawyering. Ultimately, what you want is to enjoy your home, right? Why dump time and efforts and energy into a guaranteed lose / lose situation?

    I'd find any avenue for the win, and focus there.

    Sorry to hear this, it would truly suck.
    I hear ya. I ignored it for a while. Then when they switched HOA management companies, all of a sudden I started getting violation notices. So, I went to him, knocked on his door and asked him why we couldn't talk it over mano y mano. He was in a defensive stance the whole time. Granted I can be a little rough on words sometimes, but I wasn't. I was very calm and positive. As his voice elevated, I remained even toned. When he refused to stop the attack on me, I told him I would discuss it with the HOA. Then he slammed the door on me. That was about a year and a half ago. It ended (or so I thought) after I fought the HOA BoD. You can't imagine what I exposed. So, he was quiet for about 8 months and then he went on the rampage again the other day.

    There is a lot here. I could spend days talking about it. It is a bad situation, but I am not going to move. I like my house and I like the community. He happens to be the one out of place as everyone there is young with kids, pets, and jobs. He is retired. I have talked to my neighbors. They are with me on this.

  22. #22
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by subliminalshiver
    HOA's are the devil.
    Completely un-american to begin with.
    have you tried getting the police involved? Harrassment, possibly assault... build your history.
    AMEN! HOA's are evil and this one is rotten to the core. They even went as far as changing the meeting code of conduct an hour before the meeting. Luckily I brought the one that was posted on the Website with me. You should have seen the look on their faces when I took it out and asked how it changed that day. One of the directors was crying because I caught them in a lie. That was the night I recorded the meeting on video (which is was why they changed the rules right before it and tried to tell me the rule against recording was always there). You have no idea what these people have done. It is very scary and the power they have is pretty much unlimited.

    It's a story best told over beer, a lot of beer!

  23. #23
    friend of Apex
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers

    It's a story best told over beer, a lot of beer!

    We talkin party at Schnauzers?
    Raise the roof, and the neighbors temper!
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  24. #24
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    AMEN! HOA's are evil and this one is rotten to the core. They even went as far as changing the meeting code of conduct an hour before the meeting. Luckily I brought the one that was posted on the Website with me. You should have seen the look on their faces when I took it out and asked how it changed that day. One of the directors was crying because I caught them in a lie. That was the night I recorded the meeting on video (which is was why they changed the rules right before it and tried to tell me the rule against recording was always there). You have no idea what these people have done. It is very scary and the power they have is pretty much unlimited.

    It's a story best told over beer, a lot of beer!
    Google HOA horror stories. It will piss you off for sure. They can put liens on your house and more. Record everything. You do not need the other party's permission to record a conversation in Colorado. Keep your recorder hidden. Fighting HOA's is tough. HOA's are the devil. Reminds me of congress.
    http://www.askdavetaylor.com/is_it_l...one_calls.html

  25. #25
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR
    We talkin party at Schnauzers?
    Raise the roof, and the neighbors temper!

    Just stuck a fresh pony of Dugana in the kegerator!

  26. #26
    t.i.t.s.ceo/FR amoeba rep
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    Got a wood chipper?

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    Seriously good luck!
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    the blog

  27. #27
    FleshwoundGravityResearch
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    Ok, maybe that link I posted up top is more valid than I thought.

    That's pretty terrible when you can't even feel comfortable in your own house.

  28. #28
    Shattering Glass
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    Get an JCOS ranger on this guy to talk to him about the Apex clothesline, and give him a free demonstration...

  29. #29
    My leg feels funny
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    I say try and be nice to him one more time, say maybe fertilize his lawn for him?


  30. #30
    Does Not Belong on a Bike
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    I say you can't go wrong with The Strong Arm, Frank Azar. He helped get me $20,000* when I was hit. Thanks Frank Azar!


    *Funny, the check I took home was $4500...
    This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps!

  31. #31
    ..ouch
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    Sometimes violence is good..

    Seriously though, if you're not willing to give him a beat down in a dark alley.. then get him to deck you, on video. It sounds like he has the temper for it. Wait until you know he'll be out front and then go out to mow your lawn. You can give him enough crap to get him riled without the neighbors hearing you over the mower. Between your lawsuit and him sitting in jail he should miss enough mortgage payments to hit foreclosure. It sounds extreme, but so does your situation.

    I think the attorney angle is a waste of time. Anyone with half a brain will laugh at a bs letter from an attorney. Unless he knows you have an attorney friend that will work for free or it's clear that you have substantially more financial resources than he does then he knows it's going to cost you more to go after him than it will be for him to ignore you. Unless you have something clear cut enough for a solid suit then all that letter writing is just more blah, blah, blah, and may even encourage him.

  32. #32
    MFin' Princess
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn hack
    Ok, maybe that link I posted up top is more valid than I thought.

    That's pretty terrible when you can't even feel comfortable in your own house.
    Exactly. The dude just sounds crazy. You can't beat crazy.

    You gotta look the outcome you want here.

    Schnauzers, do you know have any idea what his real issue is with you? He sounds like a nutcase, who knows what his real issues are. Is there any kind of olive branch you could extend that might help you understand his (probably bizarre) motivations, calm him, and give you some control to detoxify this mess?

    If you're not moving you're either going into (year 4 of) a huge fight, or you have a relationship to build, some how.

    I'm really sorry! This sounds awful.

  33. #33
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVC15
    Exactly. The dude just sounds crazy. You can't beat crazy.

    You gotta look the outcome you want here.

    Schnauzers, do you know have any idea what his real issue is with you? He sounds like a nutcase, who knows what his real issues are. Is there any kind of olive branch you could extend that might help you understand his (probably bizarre) motivations, calm him, and give you some control to detoxify this mess?

    If you're not moving you're either going into (year 4 of) a huge fight, or you have a relationship to build, some how.

    I'm really sorry! This sounds awful.
    Apparently, it is the same issue he had with the previous owner. He doesn't like that the dog door is on the side of my house off of the mud room (as every other dog run in the neighborhood is). It faces the front of his house because the developer squeezed his house onto a piece of land after the initial lot layout.

    He taunts my dogs so they bark at him. Then says they bark constantly for over 20 minutes. Well, that's not true because they are not allowed out when no one is home. If they bark, they are called in immediately. My MIL went to get the mail and let them out while she walked down the driveway. She's old, but she's not slow. On the way, he comes out of his house, stands on the porch, and stares down the dogs. On the way back, she sees him and tells him not to do that. That's when he starts harassing her and she tries to tell him she should talk to me. She doesn't own the house or the dogs. He continues to give her crap about having more than one dog, and that he can't stand it, and she needs to do something about it. Meanwhile, the surrounding neighbors dogs continue to bark and I think he believes they are mine. I can't imagine it being just about the dogs. The first day I moved in, his wife came over and got all pissy with us because we put the moving boxes out for garbage pickup and ddn't bring them to the recycling center. I mean real pissy! I think that started it.

    Anyway, I went to his door and wanted to have a polite talk with him about why he was having the association send me these violations. The conversation turned to you shouldn't have more than one dog, and what kind of a person needs to have that many dogs, and put electric bark collars on them. I said dogs bark. That's what they do, especially when they feel threatened. When you stare at them, they are going to get nervous. I was not going to put a bark collar on them when he taunts them and said that I bring them in as soon as I hear them. I then quoted the JeffCo statute (my Wife works for Animal Control after all). I have 10 minutes to stop them, but I never take longer than 30 seconds. Heck, I don't like to hear barking dogs anymore than anyone else. I was very polite that day, but he still said he didn't like it and that's why he reported all those things on me. Yeah, taking a portable basketball court away from a 9 year old is sure a nice thing to do. I said I would bring it up with the HOA and then he slammed the door on me. The rest is history and just gets better.

    Anyway, everything is in 100% compliance with the HOA gestapo. And that is after they tried to change the rules of being in compliance! They were lying and changing things as I was making sure everything was perfect. I called them out on it and they got caught. To give you an example of what I had to go through, I surveyed every house in the neighborhood, took photos of every dog run, and then collected satellite images from google for all of them. It was a pretty compelling case. Things even got down to a fight over ground cover. They just kept coming at me with one violation after another and none of them with anything to back it up. He harasses me personally and through the HOA. The HOA response is that they don't get in the middle of neighbor disputes. I have already told them that as long as he is in the HOA BoD, this is an HOA dispute as well.

    We'll see what happens.

  34. #34
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump
    Sometimes violence is good..

    Seriously though, if you're not willing to give him a beat down in a dark alley.. then get him to deck you, on video. It sounds like he has the temper for it. Wait until you know he'll be out front and then go out to mow your lawn. You can give him enough crap to get him riled without the neighbors hearing you over the mower. Between your lawsuit and him sitting in jail he should miss enough mortgage payments to hit foreclosure. It sounds extreme, but so does your situation.

    I think the attorney angle is a waste of time. Anyone with half a brain will laugh at a bs letter from an attorney. Unless he knows you have an attorney friend that will work for free or it's clear that you have substantially more financial resources than he does then he knows it's going to cost you more to go after him than it will be for him to ignore you. Unless you have something clear cut enough for a solid suit then all that letter writing is just more blah, blah, blah, and may even encourage him.
    Oh, he's got a good Irish temper. That is for sure. It wouldn't take much to get him to deck me. I really don't want to fight him. I just want him to leave me and my family alone. We get along with all the other neighbors. He's just a bitter old retired man from California. His house is probably paid for. I did a background search on him as well. Found a few things, but noting that is shocking. To tell you the truth, he really shouldn't be living there. The houses are about six years old and no one is over 50. Why he stuck himself in that setting is beyond me. They never have anyone over except for his daughter a couple times a year (she lives in Philly).

    There is no reason for him to be such a tool.

  35. #35
    Chronic 1st-timer
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  36. #36
    FleshwoundGravityResearch
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    It sucks, but I would be concerned for my dogs, if I were you. It is not unheard of for aholes to poison animals for no reason other than they are annoyed by them.

    I would mount a surveillance camera on that side of the house. Even a non-functioning one might prevent him from the taunting, but I would want the video proof of anything bad that might happen.

  37. #37
    Your retarded
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    schnauzers, just move, man. You may love your neighborhood now, but is it worth the fight? Will it be the same jolly neighborhood once the fight is over?

    Suing him, or anyone, does not change their behavior, it just pads your and an attorney's pockets (if you win) and increases his hate toward you. Sure, he may stay away from you and/or be removed from the BOD, but you will have given him the motivation to retaliate to an ever greater level if he gets the chance.

    Additionally, this has the possibility to create a rift between the members of the HOA; your community. They'll be put in the position of choosing sides and while you say the majority are currently on your side, that may not always be the case. This is especially true if you end up suing the HOA and depleting the HOA fund that the entire community has been paying into since its creation. Think they'll still be on your side after there's no money left in the HOA to pay for trash and snow removal and the HOA's threatening to raise the dues? Probably not.
    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  38. #38
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn hack
    It sucks, but I would be concerned for my dogs, if I were you. It is not unheard of for aholes to poison animals for no reason other than they are annoyed by them.

    I would mount a surveillance camera on that side of the house. Even a non-functioning one might prevent him from the taunting, but I would want the video proof of anything bad that might happen.
    I have an old X-10 wireless that I probably should setup.

    According to JeffCO Animal Control statues, just staring is considered taunting. But, yeah I could see him throwing a tainted marshmallow over the fence.

  39. #39
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    just move

    life's too short.

    i was in a very similar situation with a complete douchebag in washington park (small lots). it was just too stressfull to stay there. my wife and i would dread turning onto our street. i tried the legal route - in my case it was a dead end and only served to make this loser even worse. people like your neighbor don't change. we're much happier now. good luck.

  40. #40
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    I have a crazy neighbor as well. He recently shot a BB Gun at our bedroom window. He does not work, and he probably is legitamitly crazy, and on social services. I have a temporary restraining order against him, and a court case on the 20th to make it permanent. I have his neighbor to the north and south coming to testify against him as well, and a friend of mine that is too scared of him, so I subpoeonoed him to testify. If he has any contact with me, he goes to jail, and a $5,000 fine. Since the temporary restraining order was delivered by the sheriff's office, I havent heard or seen him once.

    This guy seems to be a bully, has had all sorts of problems with many neighbors around, and now its my turn. But not any more, unless he wants to go to jail.

    Document everything.

  41. #41
    Moosehead
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    schnauzers, sorry to hear about it. too close to the bone.

    maybe you should hire PM? i kid, i kid.

  42. #42
    Rigid in Evergreen
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    The first thing I did when I bought my condo was become a HOA board member (they happened to have a spot open). Fortunately it's well run and the only complaint I've heard is from a renter(!) who thinks the HOA should pay to have her walkway shoveled every morning it snows (she's never actually shown up to an HOA meeting though so this is just word-of-mouth.

    Unfortunately, unless you can get the other HOA board members on your side, then at this point it is probably scorched earth or nothing (PI, lawyer, etc.). You're dealing with someone who has too much time on his hands and probably has no better entertainment than antagonizing you and your family (and sounds like he's probably intelligent enough to side-step any serious legal problems).

    And dog barking is a tricky thing that can go from a minor to a major irritation in no time at all, add to that different people's dogs barking at different times and it can seem like it never ends (the round-robin dog barking was a big problem when I lived on Pine St. in Boulder). People with dogs are desensitized to it and people without dogs are highly sensitive to it... especially when most folks have their windows open 6 months out of the year.

  43. #43
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead
    schnauzers, sorry to hear about it. too close to the bone.

    maybe you should hire PM? i kid, i kid.

  44. #44
    Mojo0115
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    I would encourage your dogs to bark on regularly intervals for exactly 9 minutes. I would then tell your neighbor that they are so well trained that if were to become a normal, sane human being with a neighborly personality then the dogs will suddenly also become normal fun loving animals that occasionally get excited and have a fun time in their own home.

  45. #45
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by topmounter
    Unfortunately, unless you can get the other HOA board members on your side, then at this point it is probably scorched earth or nothing (PI, lawyer, etc.). You're dealing with someone who has too much time on his hands and probably has no better entertainment than antagonizing you and your family (and sounds like he's probably intelligent enough to side-step any serious legal problems).
    Exactly my thoughts. Way too much time.

    I really thought it was all over in March when I won the mulch battle. I mean come on. It states in the covenants that you can use Gorilla Hair mulch (which was already there when i bought the house). So I refreshed the mulch with not just regular Gorilla Hair, but the $15 a yard variety designed to never leave the ground if a 100 mile an hour wind came (which by the way worked). So after spending all the landscaping money to block his view of my house, he submits a violation for the mulch. I pull out the specific line in the covenant and ask them if they want to explain. Two days later I get a letter saying a variance has been granted. Variance? For what? It's already allowed in the covenant. Just more CYA for their lies and his harassment.

    See folks. There is a whole lot more here. This is just the tip of the iceberg and for the most part, I win. So I really can't give up if my track record is standing. Yes, it is an emotional and time drain. But, I guess that's just the way I am. If I knew that the HOA was like this, I would have probably chosen a house in a different area (well, actually I did until the economy tanked and I couldn't afford it anymore). But, now it's too late and I am not going to let one 70 year old a$$hat ruin what I like.

  46. #46
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by zzsean
    I would encourage your dogs to bark on regularly intervals for exactly 9 minutes. I would then tell your neighbor that they are so well trained that if were to become a normal, sane human being with a neighborly personality then the dogs will suddenly also become normal fun loving animals that occasionally get excited and have a fun time in their own home.

    That's too funny but very true. The Jeffco regs are that they can bark as much as they want all day long, but only for 10 minutes at a time. Even if they are quiet for 30 seconds and then start barking again, the clock starts over. I think that's a little nuts and would get me pissed off. Again, the dogs are not allowed out unless someone is around. Other neighbors just give them free reign all day long while they are at work. Not my dogs. And at night we supervise them because of the coyotes, so they are not barking at all after 6.

    The funny thing is that if he were to call Animal Control, guess who would answer the phone? But, he knows that. In fact we have the officers come over with the truck all the time and talk in front of the house and play with the dogs. Shoot, my kids go on all day ride-alongs with them. Ok, maybe that's a little antagonistic.

  47. #47
    friend of Apex
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    I had a neighbor tape notes on my door about my dogs barking. It stated they would "call the authorities" if it continued. I had no idea who was leaving notes on my door or what the details of the problem was until another neighbor told me who it was. I confronted her and asked about my dogs, she said they were fine dogs and they were not a problem.... so I let it slide.

    Then she waited 'til I was home and called the cops to my house. The cop wasn't happy he had to come out as my dogs were snoozing on the lawn. It was a waste of community resources for sure.

    I taped some earplugs to her door, and have not an issue since.
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  48. #48
    Thread Terrorist
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    We don't need no stinking attorneys, lets just mess with him!

  49. #49
    Oh, So Interesting!
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    IMO, you need evidence he is doing something illegal. Harassment and inciting your dogs to bark may not be legal. Get the evidence, then press charges. A lawyer might be able to guide you as to what is and is not legal, but you can probably figure it out for yourself and save some money.
    .




    Strava: turn off your dork logger when you're not on sanctioned trails.

  50. #50
    still riding
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