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  1. #1
    Team Velveeta™
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    OT: ASP.Net VB.Net SQL Pros

    If you have some proven skills and experience in these IT Technologies and you might want to make a change from what you're doing and where you're living, PM me. Possible opportunity for the right individual.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  2. #2
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    And do it quick before those languages finish going the way of COBOL and you're left flipping burgers.

  3. #3
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    sure, whatever

    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    And do it quick before those languages finish going the way of COBOL and you're left flipping burgers.
    OK, you're certainly right that the whole M$ way of doing things may obsolete. Or not.

    Either way, I don't really care. I've been solving business problems with computers for 25 years. I've switched platforms and languages plenty of times. Logic is logic and applying your knowledge and problem solving skills to a business's needs is the real skill.

    Any IT pro who isn't totally prepared to figure out new stuff in a matter of days or weeks deserves to be flipping burgers.

    I have one of maybe 40 or 50 salaried IT jobs in Chaffee County right now. I'm making a living as an IT pro in a dinky little mountain town. It involves working with .Net. So what? I prefer it to working an hourly job in addition to running my own IT business like I did before this opportunity came along. I wouldn't care if I had to work with COBOL on MVS.

    If and when this job or the .Net platform go away, I'll learn the next thing. Just like I have before. But for now I'll just keep making my house payments and earning my salary.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  4. #4
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    whoa..

    hey, just giving you a little ribbing.. sounds like you've heard it one too many times.

    .
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    (probably cause it's true )

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    hey, just giving you a little ribbing.. sounds like you've heard it one too many times...
    Sorry if I sounded angry or annoyed. I'm not. Really. I've heard it plenty of times, but not too many. Heck, I've said it plenty of times. Remember, I have been making a living from IT since the 80s. I saw M$ go from the little startup at war with Steve Jobs and IBM to the big gorilla. I slagged on them plenty over the years. I also worked with lots of their technology over the years. If you are actually a professional, you won't get very far if you refuse to touch anything that comes from M$.

    EDIT: Just for the sake of reference, most of my career I have worked with c or c-like languages. I wrote c on HP/UX when I worked for HP, I wrote java when I worked for Agilent, I wrote php when I worked for myself. Back in the olden days I did some non-trivial work with perl and shell scripts. I've worked with mysql, ALLBASE, Ingres, Oracle, Informix...

    Honestly, I really don't care. I just want to be able to live in Salida and make a decent living. Slag on .Net all you want.

    Oh, and by the way, I do flip burgers. I get this lovely ground beef from a local butcher shop run by 4th generation valley Italians that process local beef. I like to mix in some salt, chili powder and garlic powder. Then I put them on the grill, and I flip them! I grill them some more, and then I eat them. Yumm.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  6. #6
    My leg feels funny
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    And do it quick before those languages finish going the way of COBOL and you're left flipping burgers.

  7. #7
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    Isn't VPN great?.......makes it so people can live anywhere and telecommute. I don't code, I'm in networking. I can write basic scripts on *nix but my hat's off to those of you who can write code.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheelsnotfour View Post
    Isn't VPN great?.......makes it so people can live anywhere and telecommute. I don't code, I'm in networking. I can write basic scripts on *nix but my hat's off to those of you who can write code.
    Yeah it's great....but I end up working way more hours now that I have a VPN. I still go into the office everyday, but will say coming home going for a ride and then logging back on is better than sitting in the office for 12 hours.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    EDIT: Just for the sake of reference, most of my career I have worked with c or c-like languages. I wrote c on HP/UX when I worked for HP, I wrote java when I worked for Agilent, I wrote php when I worked for myself. Back in the olden days I did some non-trivial work with perl and shell scripts. I've worked with mysql, ALLBASE, Ingres, Oracle, Informix..
    I was cleaning out some boxes in the garage and ended up using my old Tandem and DEC stock options as wood stove kindling the other day. The CPQ/HPQ stuff is next.. unfortunately IBM's are all digital.. nothing to burn..

    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Slag on .Net all you want.
    Slagging on .NET is pointless.. Anyone that knows enough to care already knows why it sucks. Anyone that doesn't know it sucks doesn't know enough to argue with.

    The important part - Salida + burgers = win.

  10. #10
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    DEC, Tandem... Compaq??

    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    I was cleaning out some boxes in the garage and ended up using my old Tandem and DEC stock options as wood stove kindling the other day. The CPQ/HPQ stuff is next.. unfortunately IBM's are all digital.. nothing to burn..

    Slagging on .NET is pointless.. Anyone that knows enough to care already knows why it sucks. Anyone that doesn't know it sucks doesn't know enough to argue with.

    The important part - Salida + burgers = win.
    Did you work at the DEC facility in the Springs right by Ute Valley Park by any chance? I used to roll over there to turn hot laps on break from my work at the HP site on Garden of the Gods back in the 90's. That looked like a nice little campus as I recall.

    Ah, worthless stock options. Really takes me back to those gray days of the beginning of this century.

    Good times.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Did you work at the DEC facility in the Springs right by Ute Valley Park by any chance?
    Nah.. worked remote in the midwest reporting into the CA office for the Tandem side and MA office for DEC... then the TX office for Compaq, then to France for HP.. My business cards changed 7/8 times while sitting at the same desk.

    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Ah, worthless stock options. Really takes me back to those gray days of the beginning of this century.

    Good times.
    Except I was supposed to be living large and retired by now. What I really miss is large virtually unmonitored expense accounts.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    ... What I really miss is large virtually unmonitored expense accounts.
    Hmm. Yeah.

    I miss the 5 weeks/year of paid vacation. What I got paid during those 5 weeks was as much as my entire annual gross income in 2008. Ain't that a hoot?

    I miss the unbelievable medical and dental benefits that literally removed less than $5/month from my paychecks.

    I miss getting a 10% salary premium for several years for carrying a pager that went off exactly once, for a problem that I resolved over the phone in 5 minutes.

    When the bigwigs called my whole department of 200+ people into a conference room to announce that our jobs were moving to India, one guy asked in all seriousness if we could apply for those jobs and move to India. The bigwigs were not prepared for that one; they all harumphed and looked at each other, and at the floor, and finally one of them worked up the stones to step up to the microphone and say, "no".
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  13. #13
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    Any wonder those jobs moved to India?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    I miss the 5 weeks/year of paid vacation. What I got paid during those 5 weeks was as much as my entire annual gross income in 2008. Ain't that a hoot?
    Ah yes.. at Tandem you could actually earn up to 6 month sabbaticals.. unfortunately I was too late to the game to get into that action. The good ole' days, you release a new version of your product ever quarter and companies just dump money on you. Unfortunately it'll probably take another 80 years for that cycle to come back around (but at least MS will have died by then ; ),

    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    Any wonder those jobs moved to India?
    Nope.. but we've shipped out so much that the Indian market has evolved to start demanding the same perks.. it's no longer cheap, and everyone switches jobs every 6 months so it's virtually useless to invest in training folks. Time to start shipping the Indian jobs to China.

    Give it 30 years and they'll be shipping jobs to us.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    Any wonder those jobs moved to India?
    No, you're right. It was way off balance back then. IT talent was worth gold, and it was impossible to hire anybody good. There was lots of real incentive for corporate America to find a way to cut costs.

    It was just hard to be told for years:

    "You're great, here's a bonus".

    "You're great, we hope you'll work for us forever. Here's another really nice annual increase."

    Then,

    "You're great. You won't have any trouble finding another job."

    It literally turned on a dime.

    EDIT: Oh, and by the way, I worked with some Indian people who were stateside on work visas. They were quality IT Pros. I haven't got any kind of racist feelings about what happened, those folks were a good value (as Thump says, that may be less true now that they are more expensive). And I enjoyed working with them. Each of the ones I knew.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

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    I got into IT right as those bonanza years were wrapping up in 2001. I'm in networking. Currently my company has had a hell of a time trying to find qualified network engineers. We interviewed lots of folks claiming they have all kinds of experience only for us to find they don't know crap. So my team and I took to sitting candidates in front of a test lab they had to fix. Suddenly candidates were claiming they forgot their glasses (How'd you drive to the interview??). It seems the good network engineers are secure in jobs they want to keep despite a crap economy.

    Anyone else into Unix, Linux, networking, and security?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheelsnotfour View Post

    Anyone else into Unix, Linux, networking, and security?
    Yup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheelsnotfour View Post
    I got into IT right as those bonanza years were wrapping up in 2001. I'm in networking. Currently my company has had a hell of a time trying to find qualified network engineers. We interviewed lots of folks claiming they have all kinds of experience only for us to find they don't know crap. So my team and I took to sitting candidates in front of a test lab they had to fix. Suddenly candidates were claiming they forgot their glasses (How'd you drive to the interview??). It seems the good network engineers are secure in jobs they want to keep despite a crap economy.

    Anyone else into Unix, Linux, networking, and security?
    We've always had pretty low turnover in our security group (Level 3) but Network Eng is another story with many companies growing and poaching (zayo, amazon, google... ...etc.).

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wheelsnotfour View Post
    I got into IT right as those bonanza years were wrapping up in 2001. I'm in networking. Currently my company has had a hell of a time trying to find qualified network engineers. We interviewed lots of folks claiming they have all kinds of experience only for us to find they don't know crap. So my team and I took to sitting candidates in front of a test lab they had to fix. Suddenly candidates were claiming they forgot their glasses (How'd you drive to the interview??). It seems the good network engineers are secure in jobs they want to keep despite a crap economy.

    Anyone else into Unix, Linux, networking, and security?
    We have had a hard time finding qualified people for data analysis/BI for back end ETL, schema architecture to advanced modeling and data mining at our company. Granted we don't pay market in Denver, but those market numbers for qualified people are pretty high here in Denver, at least for the cost of living.

    Good future out there for people who can work with and analyze data.

  20. #20
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    Hey guys-- I was reading through these posts and I wanted to ask you all a question about the tech industry in general. I am looking at perhaps changing careers and I was wondering two things: 1- where in the tech fields does there look to be the most opportunity and 2- can I learn these skills on my own with private study without going to school (or at least not getting another full blown degree). Thanks

  21. #21
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    1 opinion

    My take/opinion regarding these questions (opinions are like, uh, eye color. everyone has one.):

    1. I think security as a general specialty/competency is going to be a huge growth area in the coming years. Cyber threats have gone beyond the random misanthrope targeting somebody either because they don't like them or because it's a challenge or whatever. Now countries are developing hacking and system disruption capabilities just as they have developed physical weapons in the past. There have been a couple examples in the news recently. FWIW, it's not a competency of mine. I'm a database/programming/web guy.
    2. In general, IT skills are learnable on your own pretty much universally. There is a ton of information out there on almost every IT subject area. And some schools like MIT have opened up traditional classes as free and public to access through the internet. You can't earn a degree from MIT without applying and being accepted, but you can take the classes that their students take online.

    That said, I think in this day and age it's hard to land that first job without either a rap sheet of relevant experience or some kind of related degree. Which sucks. Too many other people out there looking for work who have degrees and/or experience.

    Back in the 'day, people could pretty much get an initial job as a tech of some kind without a degree and work hard--pretty soon they are in the field. My boss is like that. He took some college courses but never graduated, and he's been making his livelihood from IT for decades. He's an impressive generalist--knows about lots of sub-areas of IT. And a really hard worker.

    I have a couple degrees (BA and MS) and they've helped me get my foot in the door of a couple good jobs, but it was my ability to just pick stuff up and learn it that kept me behind the door.

    So yeah, you can learn it on your own.

    Quote Originally Posted by pmrider View Post
    Hey guys-- I was reading through these posts and I wanted to ask you all a question about the tech industry in general. I am looking at perhaps changing careers and I was wondering two things: 1- where in the tech fields does there look to be the most opportunity and 2- can I learn these skills on my own with private study without going to school (or at least not getting another full blown degree). Thanks
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmrider View Post
    Hey guys-- I was reading through these posts and I wanted to ask you all a question about the tech industry in general. I am looking at perhaps changing careers and I was wondering two things: 1- where in the tech fields does there look to be the most opportunity and 2- can I learn these skills on my own with private study without going to school (or at least not getting another full blown degree). Thanks
    Security (as TP stated) and Data (whether its a dba, architect, bi or some sort of end user). You can get into BI without any specific training but there's going to be a ceiling unless you're technically up to snuff. If you're more mgmt inclined than most technicians, you can work around that ceiling.

  23. #23
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    I'd agree with security.. Networking and security seem to be two areas that keep most the jobs in the US and pay decent. TP's suggestions are good and I've seen a number of folks get their foot in the door without a degree by getting Cisco certifications (you get to learn advanced networking concepts and obscure IOS shell at the same time).

    Wouldn't hurt to load up an old laptop with a linux distro and start learning your way around a command line either.

    Like getting most jobs.. it's half what you know, and half who you know. Once you get some basic skills, the rest will depend on personal networking skills.

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    Awesome-- thanks for the advice guys.

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