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  1. #1
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    Old Colorado City 1st Annual Fat Tire Festival

    My good buddy down in the Spring, Aaron Egge, is spearheading a day long mountain bike excursion through the beautiful mountain outside Colorado Springs. The proposed date at this time is June7th 08. The plan is to start in town and ride the Jones Downhill Loop coming back through captn jacks, chutes etc. with the day ending with a barbecue and beers. Most of logistics are still in planning mode but he has tentative sponsors from Colorado Cyclist among others. He is currently developing a brochure to post online with details and more details will develop as the logistics get solved.

    Plan for a full day of epic colorado springs backcountry riding ending in a fiesta.

    I am just trying to help out a little but Aaron is doing all the foot work. Would love to get a show of interest from you guys out there which will help decide what is required to make this a truly fun day.

    this could be the start of something really cool and I'm not aware of anything that currently exists like this. Its a great way to bring everyone together and enjoy our passion for riding all the while meeting new people who all share the same interest.

    Suggestions are welcome so please let us now what you think.

    Cheers and happy trails...

    Stay tuned for an official flier from Aaron.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by papawheelie
    The plan is to start in town and ride the Jones Downhill Loop coming back through captn jacks, chutes etc. with the day ending with a barbecue and beers.
    Suggestions are welcome so please let us now what you think.
    This is a shuttle ride right? You don't expect people to actually pedal their bikes all the way up to Frosty's do you? That there is crazy talk.

  3. #3
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    I think the plan is to start from Bott Park (not sure where that is) but it is a nice easy ride up to Frosty's on Old Stage/Gold Camp and the descend back to the park. Approximately 30-40 miles and is not has hard as you think. You could call it a Death March but with a good group size, there usually consists of lots of rest stops and it is really a nice ride. Shuttles are always an option for folks with trucks if you don't want to make the climb. But I say its really a moderate ride overall and its always nice to be done at the end of the ride and not have to go get shuttle vehicles. But again, shuttles are always an option.

  4. #4
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    Sounds fun to me

    Beer, Food and riding, what could be better.
    I do believe loudpawlz is ribbing you, he's funny that way.

    Dam,
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  5. #5
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    I'm in - have an email list setup? Any way to keep up on the pending "Death March"?
    Want to go green? Want to be low impact?
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  6. #6
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    sounds like a good time.

  7. #7
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    Schweet!
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  8. #8
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    Could it be changed to the next weekend?

    I think it is a great idea and one of my favorite rides in the Springs. Alot of the local racers will be out of town that weekend. 6/14 or 6/15 would work better for any of the Mountain States Cup racers.

    June 6-8 XC, STXC (possibly HC)
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by papawheelie
    ...through the beautiful mountain outside Colorado Springs.
    bike tours of norad?

  10. #10
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    'bout time

    I'd love to see an event get started up here in Colorado Springs. We have such great in/near town riding that I think it's a shame we do not have any major bike festivals or races. It's not as though we don't have any high profile locals (USOTC, USAFA, Carmichael, SRAM, and RockShox all come to mind rather quickly). While we may not have the quaint status or lore of Fruita or Crested Butte, I would think that, with the combined populations of Denver/Colo Spgs/Pueblo, we should be able to easily support a major festival.

    I've only lived here 6 years, have there been prior failed attempts at establishing festivals or races here?
    Happy Trails...

  11. #11
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    If this goes off, count me in!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by papawheelie
    I think the plan is to start from Bott Park (not sure where that is) but it is a nice easy ride up to Frosty's on Old Stage/Gold Camp and the descend back to the park. Approximately 30-40 miles and is not has hard as you think. You could call it a Death March but with a good group size, there usually consists of lots of rest stops and it is really a nice ride. Shuttles are always an option for folks with trucks if you don't want to make the climb. But I say its really a moderate ride overall and its always nice to be done at the end of the ride and not have to go get shuttle vehicles. But again, shuttles are always an option.
    I'm pretty familiar with that Jones park loop, at a moderate pace from downtown Colorado Springs it usually takes about 6 hours(not shuttled). This is a great loop, I look forward to hearing more about the event!! Bott park is near 26th and Cimarron, near the Fairview Cemetery.

    Thanks for the info!!

  13. #13
    giddy up
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    Good point, Sol Vista is on 6-8 so the 14th might be the day.

    Egge, you got that down????

    I think as many people as we can get to come out the better, the only thing to worry about is the forest service. They can get all up in your grill if your not careful. So, this will be grassroots and then see how she goes. If planned well, the city and forest service should welcome such an event as it helps with tourism and the like.

    Thanks for all the responses, lets get it done.

  14. #14
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    I'm shuttling....





    just saying...
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  15. #15
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    It's a buttload of climbing and fireroad riding, and your not gonna finish at Bott park if you do CJ's and Stratton/chutes, maybe 666 to Palmer/Sec 16 and finish at Red rocks?

    Plus you have to climb up 26th and then lower Gold camp if you start from Bott park, might be tough logisticly with a big group. I would say the ride will take longer than 6 hrs as well riding up from town, I've done it and I wouldn't call it a mod ride, 5k+ of climbing, more if you do palmer/sec 16 at the end. My 2 cents

  16. #16
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    Sounds interesting as I don't know all the ins and outs of the CS trails but have riden some of them. I wouldn't want to see huge groups as that isn't my style so breaking them up might be nice.

  17. #17
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    I'm in, but I'm riding with kchri.
    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  18. #18
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    From the "Organizer"

    Please spread the word on this ride. The more feedback I get the better. This will be the first event of this type I've put together and I need to gauge concerns and options.

    In response to earlier posts:

    The ride will go through Statton Open Space and proceed down 21st St. back to Old Colo. City. I will make contact with some local watering holes to secure a post-ride party locale (hopefully with some discounts for the riders).

    Shuttling...always an option, but at this point, I would prefer to make that a person-by-person decision and leave support (vehicles) for that decision up to the individuals.

    At this point, I need to get my hands around the scope of what we may be able to put together and work the logistics-including permits, sponsors and volunteers-as needed. I need to ensure that the first year of this event doesn't turn into the last year due to poor planning and execution.

    Thanks again for the feedback. I will start on sponsorship "pimp duty" ASAP and hope to hear from more in coming days/weeks.

    ALE

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by scblur71
    I will make contact with some local watering holes to secure a post-ride party locale (hopefully with some discounts for the riders).
    Mmmm... watering holes.

    Here's my advice... if you even want it. If not, disregard everything I say. ;-)
    You may want to look into Jack Quinns since they seem to be very receptive to giving discounts and space to group athletic events. And they're definitely cool with sweaty, smelly people in spandex. Look what they do every Tuesday night: Jack Quinn's running club. Not only do they give all attendants discounts on drinks, free spaghetti and salad, but they pretty much donate the entire upstairs.

    If I could pick any watering hole for a post ride re-dehydration session it would be the Bristol Brewery. Small, but cool atmosphere... and ever better beer. However, I don't know if they'd be too keen on idea of a bunch of smelly dudes (and chicks) in spandex taking over their space for a few hours. The advantage to the location would be that it's a downhill coast from Stratton to South Tejon. Us shuttlers will be exhausted and looking forward to the coasting.
    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  20. #20
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    I'd like to reserve a seat on the kchri bus.


    For post ride, ya can't beat outdoors: tailgates, ice chests and bbq. Any spots at/near Red Rocks?
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  21. #21
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    Waterng holes:
    Old Colorado City:
    Thunder and Buttons upstairs can be reserved.
    Muffins back bar is available for reservations.

  22. #22
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    bristol used to have a group ride leaving from there for a year or so. they were very bike friendly from what i recall but that coming from someone who does not drink.

    i think that loop would be a great ride. i would be stoked to do. i don't think its too far at all. that ride is so much more rewarding when you earn it not shuttle it but thats just my opinion. if you need a volunteer i am more than willing to help out!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    It's a buttload of climbing and fireroad riding, and your not gonna finish at Bott park if you do CJ's and Stratton/chutes, maybe 666 to Palmer/Sec 16 and finish at Red rocks?

    Plus you have to climb up 26th and then lower Gold camp if you start from Bott park, might be tough logisticly with a big group. I would say the ride will take longer than 6 hrs as well riding up from town, I've done it and I wouldn't call it a mod ride, 5k+ of climbing, more if you do palmer/sec 16 at the end. My 2 cents

    i agree it is best finished in red rocks or the section. its easy to take the 666 trail down to high drive.

  24. #24
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    For the record? The MSC would be stoked about coming to the Springs in 2009. I've been having an ongoing conversation with Steve Johnson from USAC about a suitable venue. If there's anyone on this thread that's got their fingers into the civic and open space mix feel free to give me a shout. We'd be interested in a 2-day XC/endurance event as a 'Hi, how are ya" to the powers that be.

    Mike
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge29er
    I'm pretty familiar with that Jones park loop
    I'm not as much as I should be.

    I look forward to hearing more about the event!!
    Me too.

    Thanks you guys for organizing this.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MavSports
    For the record? The MSC would be stoked about coming to the Springs in 2009. I've been having an ongoing conversation with Steve Johnson from USAC about a suitable venue. If there's anyone on this thread that's got their fingers into the civic and open space mix feel free to give me a shout. We'd be interested in a 2-day XC/endurance event as a 'Hi, how are ya" to the powers that be.

    Mike
    Not sure about an endurance venue but the Air Force academy loop would make for an ideal XC race course, there was already a local race there.

  27. #27
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    Ummm, I think I can answer your question on whether or not Bristol might or might not be bike friendly: Josh Osterhoudt is a great guy, and is the GM at Bristol. Josh was a key force with Phil Yearsly to get the Medicine Wheel going around here, and is the Eastern Colorado IMBA rep. Josh is your contact for all things beer and IMBA for Eastern colorado, it gets no better than that! Josh's imba contact info is at:

    http://www.imba.com/contacts/near_you/colorado.html

    The AFA race course was awesome, with the exception of the mass start with 50 of your best lycra clad friends all jamming into the downhill singletrack - going clockwise starting behind the gas station by the community center. It also works well to allow for multiple laps in some classes (Expert at least).

    jon.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnordby
    Ummm, I think I can answer your question on whether or not Bristol might or might not be bike friendly: Josh Osterhoudt is a great guy, and is the GM at Bristol. Josh was a key force with Phil Yearsly to get the Medicine Wheel going around here, and is the Eastern Colorado IMBA rep. Josh is your contact for all things beer and IMBA for Eastern colorado, it gets no better than that! Josh's imba contact info is at:

    http://www.imba.com/contacts/near_you/colorado.html

    The AFA race course was awesome, with the exception of the mass start with 50 of your best lycra clad friends all jamming into the downhill singletrack - going clockwise starting behind the gas station by the community center. It also works well to allow for multiple laps in some classes (Expert at least).

    jon.
    britstol seems like it would be a pretty straight shot to the canyon and the chutes/gold camp. i had no idea that bristol had such close ties with imba.

  29. #29
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    All this endurance XC talk is geeking me out...

    The only issue I see with after event, non-parking lot activities is keeping an eye on the gazillion dollars worth of bikes. Stopping at the local watering hole(s) wouldn't sit well with me if I had to leave my bike outside, unwatched and exposed to the five-finger-discount ruffians...

    Perhaps there can be at least two staged events: the XC geek, marathon, climb 5-6K, and spend all day in the saddle event; and the heavy bike, lazy ass, shuttle ride that leaves just in time to run over all the XC geeks on the way down event. All to end at the Red Rocks Parking lot where there will be free beer from Bristol brewing and enticing smells of barbaqueing furry critters on the grill...


    again, just saying...
    Last edited by kchri; 02-07-2008 at 07:11 PM.
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  30. #30
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    kchri, that's the most I've ever seen you say.

    hey, I'm just saying...
    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  31. #31
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    Don't get me started on how good skiing was yesterday...
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    Not sure about an endurance venue but the Air Force academy loop would make for an ideal XC race course, there was already a local race there.
    In MSC lingo 'endurance' = XC, STXC, Hill Climbs and off-road TT's
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  33. #33
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    I'm interested, if you give us XC geeks enough time to string up some wires across the trail

  34. #34
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    But kchri, if you ran us all over, we'd just fill in the ruts and smooth out the lines - perhaps try and elbow to knock us clear of the trail. Since you shuttled, you gotta go get your ride - the beer will be gone when you finally get back down...http://forums.mtbr.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

    Agreed - some outdoor spot, Red Rocks sounds perfect, with a bbq/beer garden would work very well.

    MavSports - Plenty of hillclimb opportunities around here as you can imagine, from 500' to 2000' vertical without much of a break. STXC I take it means short track, Red Rocks, AFA, Palmer Park, tons of those areas as well.

  35. #35
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    Last edited by UncleTrail; 02-16-2008 at 08:04 PM.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnordby
    ... - the beer will be gone when you finally get back down...

    Agreed - some outdoor spot, Red Rocks sounds perfect, with a bbq/beer garden would work very well.
    The beer in my truck will still be there...
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  37. #37
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    Only if someone doesn't break into your truck and drink it.
    The more I drink, the smarter you get.

  38. #38
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    bouncy-I was thinking upstairs @ Thunder and Buttons. Pretty decent, clean place.

  39. #39
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    MavSports-I'm pretty much a newbie at event organization. I would like to use this event as a test case on setting things up in The Springs. There hasn't been much more than weekend group/club rides, cyclo, and collegiate rides around here. I'd like to see it take the next step. For a medium-sized city, we have great XC riding and plenty of facilities to assist travellers. My goal is to pull this event off w/out issue and to provide a bunch of riders a great time and let them spread the word. If the locals recognize the potential for a cycling event-awesome. A trip to Hall Ranch this year made me appreciate what I have here-solitude.

    If you work for MavSports-help me out. I have raced the Firecracker with PapaWheelie ever since we were able. Great setup. Great race and one of the highlights of my year.

    ALE

  40. #40
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    A little to dangerous. I'd prefer a place with walls for safety's sake (and to avoid possible prosecution!).

    ALE

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail
    and the thought of you guys running an outlaw event without USFS approval makes me wince.
    Call me the Jedi Master of mediation, but here's a few details from the organizer's post.

    Quote Originally Posted by scblur71
    ........ The more feedback I get the better. This will be the first event of this type I've put together and I need to gauge concerns and options.

    At this point, I need to get my hands around the scope of what we may be able to put together and work the logistics-including permits, sponsors and volunteers-as needed. I need to ensure that the first year of this event doesn't turn into the last year due to poor planning and execution.
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  42. #42
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    Hey SCBlur - yeah, that's where "Mavsports" comes from. Jeff and I were partners in Maverick Sports for years and The Firecracker was a big part of that. With any new potential venue we here at the MSC want to walk into the water slowly, cross our T's and dot our I's. That includes taking the high road with area land managers

    Uncle Trail - I believe that you were talking to me awhile back. Why am I talking to the head of USAC instead of you? For the simple reason that he and I began our dialogue well before you and I did. He's a good guy with some pretty amazing insight into our sport and into your community. I've long ago stopped believing that I was the smartest guy in the room and I come away from my conversations with him feeling like my perspective has been enhanced. As far as investigating new venues goes, nobody has an exclusive as far as our attention of communication is concerned.

    I don't mean to rub anyone the wrong way, but before assumptions are made about the relative profitability or motive of any MSC event those making the assumptions should reconsider doing so. We bring a lot of labor and spend more than most on production, marketing and purse. If you're thinking about using the MSC as a fundraiser you may want to think again - most of our events are lucky to break even. I know, I know...boo-hoo-hoo. That's not why I'm revealing that kernel of knowledge, it just seems like if that's one outspoken person's perspective it's probably better that it be addressed right up front.

    You see, we wouldn't come to The Springs because we NEED to. Simply put, we don't. Personally, I wouldn't mind spending a few more weekends at home during the summer with my wife and my son. Our mission is to enhance the riding community here in the Rockies and to create an inclusive atmosphere that puts more people on bikes, identifies talent and creates an atmoshpere where it can develop and flourish and strengthen our riding community as a whole. We also want to eat burritos and drink beer along the way.

    We'd come to the Springs because there's a great scene there and we think that we could contribute to it - it's as simple as that. The infrastructure that would support an event of the MSC's size needs to dovetail with our existing business model, part of which is me and the key members of my staff working 100-hour weeks from April to September. Truth be told, you're not going to get a lot of volunteer hours from us - we're just not available.

    With that statement made, we'll continue to investigate a handful of venues along the I-25 corridor between Denver and the Springs. The series is trying to "Coloradify" its endurance offerings a bit. You can see that with the addition of Fruita and The Fall Classic this year. Maybe there's something that fits the bill down your way. If there is, send me the info and we can get the dialogue going with the right folks from there.

    Good luck with your event and let us know if we can help in any way. I mean that.

    Mike
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  43. #43
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    Last edited by UncleTrail; 02-16-2008 at 08:05 PM.

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    Out-thunk by gravity riders again. I wouldn't steal that beer krchi, that'd be bad form (understatement of the year). How about if I gaurd it when I get there, you'll be along shortly anyway since by the time I rode that far you'll have finished and are about to lap me. Just one beer is all I ask....

    MavSports - thanks for the Firecracker, best organized/supported event I have ridden, at least the first lap. The second lap the food didn't sit so well (my own, so I cannot blame anyone but myself!)! One thing I'd like to see is some kind of coordinated effort to not only clean up trails after a race, but get the racers to be work crews and fix damage not necessarily caused by the race. I know you guys stress no trash at the race meetings, maybe take the next step and stress volunteering.

    UncleTrail - I'm with ya on the volunteering. If you use the trails, regardless of how, show up with tools on trail days. Please, just make it a habit. Do it before you ride - sneak the ride in after a couple hours of putting in a perfect, permanent, rocked in water bar with your friends - go test out your work. In defense of bikers and members on this board - my crews in Monument generally consist of 90-95% bikers, whereas the use on our local trails has an inordinate amount of horse traffic, and a ton of foot traffic, all with dogs.

    jon.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnordby
    Out-thunk by gravity riders again. I wouldn't steal that beer krchi, that'd be bad form (understatement of the year). How about if I gaurd it when I get there, you'll be along shortly anyway since by the time I rode that far you'll have finished and are about to lap me. Just one beer is all I ask....
    I'll save two beers at least for ya, and I'm not really a gravity rider. I've done my share of climbing. Just not interested in climbing Mary's or Old Stage Road. I have climbed up Seven Bridges before - won't do that again either.
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail
    Mike you misread my post. I would never ask MSC to volunteer. I'm talking to the locals in CS who keep talking about putting on events. For 3 years now, I've heard locals talk about wanting to put on cycling events in Colorado Springs and how they need a venue.

    So, we plan a venue, raise money, build our portion, and where are the volunteers to build their portion? If you(locals) want a new trail, and a place to ride/race, you need to build it. I'm sorry, but we put a ton of work into getting this ST project OK'd by our Parks Board, held public meetings, did neighborhood surveys, wrote a grant and solicited donations. Now it's time for the local MTB community to get out there and finish building the trail. And that includes USAC since they were part of the trail team.

    MedWheel posted the workdays on this board. Did any of you show up?
    It's extremely disappointing to have 2 people show up workday after workday.

    Where I'm going with this? No one ever bothers to talk to the land managers, public safety, etc.... first, and I'm talking about road racing also, to find out if the venue is OK. It's just let down after let down. More so called "events" get cancelled than actually happen here in CS. This thread is a perfect example.

    As a land manager, when I hear "Fat Tire Festival", I think a couple hundred people? When when I hear Stratton Open Space, I'm thinking "hikers, weekend, perhaps a conservation easement" and probably not a good idea. The author might want to make a simple phone call to someone in City Parks to find out if this is even possible before setting a date and having everyone make plans?

    Just my opinion, but getting these rumors started is what kills all the events.
    If the OP wants to put on a Festival than there needs to be other options besides an epic XC ride, I got the feeling it was more of a group ride with party afterwards type deal.

    As far as the Bear Creek trails, I remember hearing about it and I choose not to help cause Bear Creek is not my style as far as riding goes, I have done some trail work at other locales but not as much as I could I guess, our riding group has other spots that we like to ride and tend to do trail work.

    Personally, I don't race and don't plan on racing so I don't really care about an XC type event here but I know how much I enjoy riding AFA(thank you Med Wheel!) and I just thought it would be an excellent venue for an XC race as there was already one there. Bear Creek sounds like an excellent spot for a cross race but MB racing? Is the new trail in the park actual ST or gravel paths like already exsist? I used to ride thru there on the way to the canyon but haven't in the last few years, all I think about is people w/dogs and equestrians on gravel paths when I think about Bear creek.
    Last edited by rr; 02-08-2008 at 09:09 AM.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inflexables
    Call me the Jedi Master of mediation, but here's a few details from the organizer's post.
    Inflexables are soooooo yesterday. Infucable is the new Inflexable.


    Besides, it is spelled inflexIble...
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  48. #48
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    Couple of thoughts -

    First, thanks for the props on the Firecracker. It was the third year of the event that the litter really made our radar screen. I mean, we always personally swept the course and picked up the trash ourselves the day after the event, but once it got over 300 riders the event itself really seemed to draw a certain segment of folks with a strong (but misplaced) sense of entitlement regarding what to do with their trash. After that we started putting multiple trash stations on course and that seemed to work pretty well, especially since we and our volunteers still swept the course.

    As far as trail damage goes, the nature of the terrain here is that it's pretty mineral. The course always holds up pretty well, but we've always taken great pains to objectively assess the impact of the race in that regard. Trail building used to be a big part of the business and on top of that, we've got this huge kids MTB program, the emphasis of which is protecting the backcountry. My point? We're already doing what you suggest and have been for nearly a decade now. We wish that more promoters would get engaged like this...

    Uncle Trail - thanks for the clarification. If I spend any more time away from home my wife will kill me. What do you know about the open space up around Castle Rock?

    A good event can be a polarizing experience for any community. Hang in there all of you, sweat the little #&^! and wolk together to make it happen. Don't let ego or a misstep or two get in the way - there will ALWAYS be problems and diagreements, but at the end of the day, endurance rider, gravity guy or open space guru, we're all far more alike than different.

    Mike
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  50. #50
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    my two cents worth about racing at bear creek park.... a local week night stxc race would probably go over just fine, but trying to hold MSC race or other major xc race isn't going to happen, the course just isn't good enough, even with TWO more miles of trail. i live with in riding distance of the park and hardly ever ride there for free. so asking some one to drive 2-4 hours then pay 20-40$ to race is asking alot.great mtb races start with great race courses. and before you go off saying i should come out and do some trail work... i probably spend more time putting the shovel to the ground than anyone, all be it mostly at the BMX track. mostly because at the bmx track they actually listen to what i have to say, and we have got a track that is pretty fun to ride. when the local powers that be ask for the "riders" opinion about building new trail, we always end up with 3 foot wide hiking paths, instead of single track, or some lame stunts on flat ground...

    and now back to our scheduled programing... planning a "festival" with out getting the approval of the powers that be is a bad idea. get some of the locals on this board behind a "group" ride and re-post a week or two before hand. keep it low key and fun.

  51. #51
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    What's this talk about a group ride? That sounds pretty fun. If a festival and group ride were to be held on the same day on the same trails, I'd be inclined to participate in the group ride.
    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  52. #52
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    talk about a thread getting off topic...

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    I'm in, but I'm riding with kchri.

    x2...
    .




    Strava: turn off your dork logger when you're not on sanctioned trails.

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    Unc - I've got skin like an armadillo, so take this for what it's worth: singling yourself out as the only one who can accomplish something is the fastest way I know of to alienate other well-intentioned and like-minded folks. Our community is just too small for any one of us to have that luxury. With that said, I haven't walked a mile in your shoes, just my .02.

    Mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by MavSports
    Unc - I've got skin like an armadillo, so take this for what it's worth: singling yourself out as the only one who can accomplish something is the fastest way I know of to alienate other well-intentioned and like-minded folks. Our community is just too small for any one of us to have that luxury. With that said, I haven't walked a mile in your shoes, just my .02.

    Mike
    Yeah, I can't say he gives me that warm fuzzy feeling that makes me want to help out with trail work. The opposite is quite true, in fact, especially since I have no desire to ride bear creek park.

  56. #56
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    Folks, even if you don't like the delivery of UncleTrail's messages, don't shoot the messenger, there is a lot of substance to what he is trying to get across. We haven't had any race series around here since the SandCreek stuff. There was a CORBA race or two up Gold Camp and down Capn' jacks. There was a couple up Mt Herman and down Limbaugh in the early 1990's. Nothing for quite a while, considering the riding around here.

    Also, and my opinion one of the most important of those messages is: There are not enough folks showing up on work nights and weekends. Certainly not proportionate to the traffic we generate.

    jon

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    I long ago figure out kchri for a climber - you were above the fence and exit way before I got in there. I already owe the infucables beers.. drinking yours will put me further in debt. I better get a keg....

  58. #58
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    A keg would be good

    Reading this thread gave me a headache like a politician.
    Check your PM.

    Dam,
    Bikes are FUN

  59. #59
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    yeah I think this thread got hijacked. We should get back to discussing a Fat Tire Festival aka "Group Ride" where we all get together and ride, get know each other and have a good day on the trail. Lets get this thing organized and we can talk about a race venue over some beer and brats.

    My vote is to have the post ride party at an outdoor venue. I used to live in COS but its been awhile so I'll let Scblur and whoever else wants to help organize choose the locale. Its quite obvious the interest is here so now its just boils down to making a decision. I designate Scblur to make the call. Layout the details such as where to meet what time and where we party. And then its be there or be lame.

  60. #60
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    I'm in for whatever you guys hammer out.

    Long climbs are fun if there are other people on 5+ inch bikes too.. I'd rather suffer for 6 miles on a trial than 25 on a dirt road though.. Just sayin'..

    I'd be glad to help out however I can, just send me an email. jesseparker(at)gmail

    For the record I did trail work last summer.... And shuttling's for pansies (like me)

  61. #61
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    I happen to like pansies.

    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  62. #62
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    they do smell nice.. the flower that is

  63. #63
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    [QUOTE=papawheelie]yeah I think this thread got hijacked. We should get back to discussing a Fat Tire Festival aka "Group Ride" where we all get together and ride, get know each other and have a good day on the trail.QUOTE]

    Crap. Guilty. Or at least one of the guilty. My apology.

    Papawheelie - not sure what we can do to help, but of your or your buddy need it, we've got a pretty complete production kit that we'd be willing to loan you parts of to help with your event.

    Mike
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  65. #65
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    correct me if i'm wrong, but the original topic of this thread was never about racing. personally, i couldn't care less about racing.

  66. #66
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    word.....

  67. #67
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    two words.....
    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  68. #68
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    When I heard "Fat Tire Festival" I was sure it was going to be about beer!...
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  69. #69
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    We're not offering to help put on a race - we're offering up things like water jugs, tables, tents, a PA if necessary, course markings if you want 'em, generators, rebar, course tape. Whatever we have, if we're not using it you're welcome to it.

    What you guys are doing is one of the most fun and soulful things possible - riding your bike for sheer pleasure with other like-minded folks. If there's any way for us to help, again, we'd be glad to. No ulterior motives, no percentage in it for us, no networking opportunities to open up a new venue - just helping because, well...just because. Because we can and we're able I guess.

    If you want any of that stuff, gimme a shout.

    Mike
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    MavSports-thanks for the offer of support. I'll do some work in the coming months to gauge interest and participation level to see if this will be more than a napkin-drawing of the course and a few post-race beers.

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    I'm all for this - I think it is crazy that the Pikes Peak area does not have many mountain bike events! The proposed loop would be great - make sure the price is right and the product is great - good swag, food, booze and music. Next, how about an 18 hour event at Pueblo Reservior??? (circa 18 hrs of Fruita)

  72. #72
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    Will be watching this thread…

    Quote Originally Posted by scblur71
    MavSports-thanks for the offer of support. I'll do some work in the coming months to gauge interest and participation level to see if this will be more than a napkin-drawing of the course and a few post-race beers.
    Well this was an interesting thread...........

    Some random thoughts…….

    I don’t know if you have ever done an organized event, big or small, but my complements to you if you decide to make the attempt, always a big undertaking!!

    I think Colorado Springs could support some type of Annual Mountain Bike Festival.
    It could and probably would support a large, well run event.
    IE: A “big tent” event with Sanctioned Races, Long and Short Group Rides, silly fun events etc etc

    However I get the feeling that the original thinking was to have something a bit more basic and simple?
    IE: A Organized & Permitted Group Ride that starts in town, heads up to some local trails, finishes with some food and refreshment?

    That seems like a good Starting Point for some type of annual event IMO.
    Who knows might even turn into something bigger over time.

    Anyway, I am up for a organized/permitted (long option please) group ride……and hey-shuttles are for……….



    (Oh, and just who TH is this ‘one thread started’ ‘a bit off topic’, bragging, local, big shot, all important, holier than thou, hot under the collar, trail building, involved, dedicated, frustrated and anonymous UncleTrail? i know, sorry, sorry, tried but could not
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    Last edited by UncleTrail; 02-16-2008 at 08:07 PM.

  74. #74
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    Interesting thread...about the cycling COMMUNITY!

    All,

    There is a vibrant, fun-loving, active but loosely organized cycling community here in CS.

    This thread highlights some of the important aspects of what many local riders would love to have here.

    - More fun organized rides with a local "festival" flavor, festival meaning post-ride activities and low-key fun

    - Organized festivals (ie Fat Tire and/or CX and Road) I mean, this place being such an awesome collection of roads, trails and outdoor scenery, it amazes me that we don't have events such as these

    - Races (see above comment as to why we don't have these)

    Being tied to a large cycling event myself in May, I realize that the underlying reason that events, be it festivals, races or work days end up being successful is the participation of a highly motivated and energetic group of individuals, the lack of being one of the things that seems to be a common thread to many of the rants in this post.

    My hope is that the cycling community here in the Springs will come together, form bonds across common interests and transform the CS area into the cycling mecca it can be.

    See comment above for "is the participation of a highly motivated and energetic group of individuals" Most times, some beer required!

    Or my new favorite post-ride Winter Warmup beverage:

    http://www.stranahans.com/index.php?q=home

    To all the folks who are attempting to put on group rides, festivals, races and other cycling-related persuits.......you all ROCK and keep the faith!

    Allen

  75. #75
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    Call me crazy, but I like how Colorado Springs is not a "cycling mecca". I like that there are no big mountain bike races or formal festivals here. I like the number of cycling shops in town (I can think of eight right off hand). I like the current user density on the trails (although it is higher than it should be, but still lower than some places so I can't complain). I like how the majority of rides I participate in are group rides that are rewarded with beers. I don't like the idea of CS hosting organized mountain bike events, races, or it becoming a destination spot for cyclists. So in that sense, I disagree with what you would like to see, twobytandem.
    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  76. #76
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    Not to mention the riding here sucks, I recommend Golden or Boulder for a festival

  77. #77
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    Understand!

    Maybe I used the word "mecca" waaaay to freely. I respect the fact that we have a hidden gem here in CS, what I would most like to see is the voice of the cycling community to be a little larger and more well-defined. In that sense, we would be seen as a larger entity w/in the community and the "powers that be" would search out the cycling groups for their input more often on development, sustainability and use issues. Mtn biking and road biking alike.

    Anything that supports that end would make me happy, but yes....it would suck in a to have hordes of mtn bikers decend on the community. Think of the threads that would start then...

    However, having an event or two on the map couldn't be that bad of a situation to have.

    It's all good, I'll quit adding to the thread hijacking, now back to our regularly scheduled Colorado Springs Fat Tire Festival. My hope is that it jells and is well attended as a fun, group activity where everyone gets to enjoy the trails!

    Allen

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobytandem
    I respect the fact that we have a hidden gem here in CS, what I would most like to see is the voice of the cycling community to be a little larger and more well-defined. In that sense, we would be seen as a larger entity w/in the community and the "powers that be" would search out the cycling groups for their input more often on development, sustainability and use issues. Mtn biking and road biking alike.
    Now that I can agree with!
    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  79. #79
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    New Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail
    Guilty as accused. Big shot, no, big mouth, yes.
    Glad you saw the in my post

    Uncle Trail --Actually this thread is on-topic. The original author announced "fat tire festival", and considering I sit on just about every trail team in the county including Teller County, I've never heard about a festival being planned on the South Slope.
    Hey this sounds like a big shot to me (in a polite way), you seem to have a lot of local insider knowledge

    Uncle Trail --Then Mike announced he was planning an MSC event here in the Springs(AFA), right after I read that he just announced cancellation of his stage race, which is exactly what he told me 2 years ago when we talked. My point is this. MSC, USAC, the AFA, SportsCorp, Experience Colorado and all the others keep "talking", but I'm doing... We have a trail almost built, and we're ready to race. Why aren't you talking to us? We're ready to make it happen
    I for one am interested in knowing who the “we” are you mention?

    Sometimes there is nothing wrong with a bit of ranting and raving to get people thinking and talking about volunteering & supporting the local cycling community etc. Your frustration over Bear Creek Park certainly shouted out to me.

    I live in Woodland Park but ride a lot in Colorado Springs during the winter. To me Bear Creek Park is simply a convenient staging area for some of my loop rides. And while this old man has no real interest in a STXC trail/race course, just like I have no strong interest in a BMX or Downhill or stunt/terrain park, etc, some of your comments got me thinking about the Colorado Springs mtb cycling community in general. I am interested in XC trails, the longer the better and a local annual bike festival could be great.

    You obviously have not posted a tremendous amount in this particular forum; you may have (probably have) done so elsewhere??

    So……Can I suggest you start a thread that outlines your “local” knowledge, land use issues, promotion concerns, whatever?. Perhaps you could start with any local web links that might be relevant?

    me.. http://desertmountainride.blogspot.com/
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  80. #80
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    Scarey looking...

    Gheeze Louise,
    Those "trails" look more like a severely adulterated pump track - backhoe carved in nature. So unnatural, and worthless...cept maybe for some Euro race course or some nice place for walkies and the unloading of pet by product.

    We don't need any more of those kind of trails, we have enough. Race...schmace...we need good places to ride and from the looks of those pics they are not of interest - hence the lack of interest.

    EDIT: Sorry if I come across a bit harsh but the few times I have ridden in the springs particularly in the Bear Creek Dog Shat area it was an insult to the earth to see such trails and shat all around. Focus on Quality of Life/Trails not on speed...speed kills...if we want speed we can visit the local high school during lunch/smoke break or just head to Denver.

    CRD
    C.SPRINGS

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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by COSK2
    I'm all for this - Next, how about an 18 hour event at Pueblo Reservior??? (circa 18 hrs of Fruita)
    Yeah right, don't think you can come down here with your "group rides" or mtn bike events without getting it sanctioned thru the proper channels. The state park ain't buyin' it. Everything has to go thru the park manager with all the appropriate paperwork, insurance, etc.

  83. #83
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    Sorry You Have The Phleu....

    "....Just to show I'm not entirely hijacking your thread. Did anyone else notice the irony of the Colorado Front Range forum being sponsored by the Black Hills Trail Festival, in Rapid City, SD, and yet here we are in MTB Capital USA talking about a festival, that's really a group ride... tongue in cheek...."

    NO IRONY...WE HERE KNOW WHAT WE WANT. WE DON'T WANT SOME OUTSIDERS (OR MARKETING MONEY BAGS WITH WHATEVER MOTIVE) TELLING US WHATS BEST FOR US. WE HAD ENOUGH SENCE TO TELL THE OLYMPICS TO GO POUND SAND (INTERCOURSE THEMSELVES-TO PUT IT POLITELY). EVERYPLACE THAT HOSTED THESE BLECHH-$GAMES BURNED A LOT OF QUALITY OF LIFE VARIABLES WHICH THEY IGNORANTLY SOLD TO THE LOWEST BIDDER. THE DEVELOPERS MADE OUT LIKE BANDITS - WE HATE DEVELOPERS OUR SOULS ARE NOR FOR TRADE.

    CSPRINGS: I wasn't going to reply to your post, but since I'm stuck at home with the flu, I figured why not.
    GET WELL SOON


    Glad you asked why the trail looks so "buff". What you don't see in those pictures is the 150lbs of native grass seed we had just broadcast along the sides of the trail. In Colorado, native grasses take about 3 years to grow in. We call it "sleep, leap and creep". The first year the plants grow a root system, the 2nd it's vegetative top growth and 3rd the plant goes into normal growth. ie. creep.

    SORRY I HAVE SEEN CLEAR CUTS, AND THE POST TRAUMA RESTORATION THAT MAKES IT ALL GOOD - NO HARM DONE - NOT. ONCE RAPED ONE CAN NOT REGAIN VIRGINITY. REBIRTH IS NOT NECESSARY IF YOU ARE NOT DEGRADED BY AFTERBIRTH.

    Yes, new machine-built trails look wide. But after several seasons the lines will get worn in and the vegetation will grow back into areas without traffic. The extra width actually provides a very good "fall zone" for riders.

    OUR TRAILS DONT WEAR IN - THEY ERODE. WE DONT FALL HERE - A TIME HONOURED AGREEMENT WITH MA NATURE (MUTUAL RESPECT). AND IF WE DO SHE GENTLY LAYS US DOWN TO A PLEASURABLE SHORT NAP. AFTER THE WET DREAMS ARE OVER WE HOP BACK ON THE BIKE AND RIDE MORE ROCKS.

    No rocks? Well, as annual freeze/thaw cycles occur, the rocks will move up out of the soil and the rough trail you are looking at will form. It takes many years though and lots of traffic.

    THAT IS BUNK IN GEOLOGICAL TERMS. WHEN WE ARE TILLING THE SOIL IN THE FRONT YARD FOR OUR LOVELY PANSIES WE MIGHT MOVE THEM ROUND A BIT. BUT YOU HAVE MADE A GOOD POINT...LAST SUMMER I FLEW OVER THE ROCKY MOUNTAINS. NOW THAT WINTER IS OVER I NOTICES THAT THE THAW HAS FLOATED THEM ROCKS ALL AWAY. THAT MUST EXPLAIN THE RISE IN THE EARTHS OCEANS AND THE LOSS OF THE POLAR ICE SHELVES. NO, THE LAYERS OF SOIL BETWEEN THE OREO COOKIE ROCKS, DO ERODE - THATS WHY IT IS REFERRED TO AS SOIL EROSION.


    All of this actually brings up a great point about how plants grow in Colorado. Quite simply, they grow slow, because of the altitude and climate(dry). This is also a reason why Palmer Park and Ute Valley look they way they do. The vegetation cannot keep pace with the traffic, or soil compaction which makes it even tougher for the plants to get their roots down into the soil where they can find water.

    (I remember your rant on kicking the rocks back onto the trail at Ute to piss off the runners.) With all the great trails just outside of town, why not let the runner/hikers have a safe place to go?
    SANTA FE TRAIL IS PLENTY SAFE, SAFE THE ROCKS! THE POINT WAS TO RETAIN ALL THE ROCKS, PISSING OFF IS A BYPRODUCT. SECTIONS OF THE PARK, UNNOTICED BY MOST, ARE STILL SANITIZED BY THE ROCK KICKERS AWAY. THEY ARE ALREADY STARTING TO SHOW SIGN OR INCREASED WEAR - EROSION.

    One other thing about those "buff" trails. I have a gentleman's agreement with our trail builder to not finish any technical features such as drops/steps, rock gardens, etc... until the 1 year warranty has expired. This will give him the opportunity to check the trails' drainage. But, after Sept. '08... if you've noticed the rock piles along the side of the main trail? Well, guess what those are for?

    AS TAXPAYERS WE WERE SCREWED WHEN THE CITY LOW BID THE HIGHWAY. WARRANTY MEANS NOTHING. NO PERFORMANCE BOND... AND LOOK AT WHAT WE HAVE ONE YEAR LATER. A NEW (LOOKING) HIGHWAY THAT IS SHODDY, POTHOLEING, BRIDGE/ROAD INTERFACES THAT WERE DESIGNED BY WILLIE THE CRACK HOE. AND ARE ROUGH IN MY GHETTO HONDA WHEN JUST DOING 20 OVER THE LIMIT.

    Like I read somewhere else; "If you want BC trails, then move to BC." Bottom line: Colorado Springs climate doesn't support the type of off-piste riding freeriders want to do and the damage takes a very long time to heal. And before you flame me. Don't forget, I've informed you of a possible opportunity to build FR trails in conjunction with the OHV park. With only 4 people responding that they were supportive. So please stop assuming I'm against freeriding. I'm not. I build whatever I'm asked to build. Besides, the county is self-insured. It's not my call.

    THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT THE DEVELOPERS ALL SAY. UNDEVELOPMENT IS EVIL...I JUST BULL DOZE ALL THE GRASS, TREES, SHRUBBERIES, GREENBELTS AND REPLACE WITH BEAUTIFUL CONCRETE. NOW THE VIEW OF THE PRISON ON THE BLUFF AND ALL THE CLOSED SKOOLS IS MORE ENJOYABLE. MY MAP CALL THIS AREA THE "ROCKI MOUNTAINS" THEM ARE CALLED ROCKI FOR REASON.

    Anyway, I try to think about it this way. If 50 XC racers show up for a Wed. night race on this trail, that's 50 fewer on the trails up in the mtn.s. Right? How is that bad?

    THE TRAILSIDE TOSSED GU PACKETS, THE BRAKE DRAGGING JUST TO GET AHEAD, THE LYCRA AND CONDOMS HIDDEN NEATH THE BUSHES (POST RIDE RIDE). IF WE CAN FILL UP THE JAILS WITH BAD FOLK WE'D HAVE FEWER ON THE TRAILS. EVER THOUGHT BOUT RUNNIN FOR SHERRIFF?


    WELL TIME TO HELP THE BOYS WITH THEIR RELIGIOUS INSTRUCTION. NOW WHERE THE PHAKK IS THE DOGMA BELT?
    NOW IM REALLY PISSED...GOTTA FOCUS ON SOME FANNY.

    GET WELL SOON
    I HEAR THEY NEED DEVELOPERS IN THE PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF BOULDER

    CRD
    Last edited by CSPRINGS; 02-14-2008 at 07:48 PM.
    C.SPRINGS

  84. #84
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    Last edited by UncleTrail; 02-16-2008 at 08:06 PM.

  85. #85
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    Name calling already ?

    I won our bet - thanks for the kegger, but had no idea it would happen so soon. How old are you that you went from misplaced telling us what is good for us to namecalling when faced with geological factoids and a bit of humor?

    priceless
    C.SPRINGS

  86. #86
    Your retarded
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    CSPRINGS is my third favorite MTBR troll. Although, I fear that CSPRINGS might actually be a real(ish) person.
    1) Gregory Ainsworth
    2) Inflexables
    3) CSPRINGS
    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  87. #87
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  88. #88
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    Last edited by UncleTrail; 02-16-2008 at 08:08 PM.

  89. #89
    Inflexable...
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    Quote Originally Posted by athalliah
    Am I the only one that finds this entirely disturbing?...
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by athalliah

  91. #91
    .............
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    Quote Originally Posted by kchri
    Am I the only one that finds this entirely disturbing?...
    Assuming that by "disturbing" you mean "arousing", then yes, it is just you. FREAK!!
    Speed of Lightening
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  92. #92
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    Hey Hitler...

    This a forum for adultish folks. So talk to the hand....



    When someone yells out for toilet paper...THATS when you come out.
    Last edited by CSPRINGS; 02-16-2008 at 10:57 AM.
    C.SPRINGS

  93. #93
    MTBChicky
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    This would be sweet if it happens. I'm moving to the Denver / Colorado Springs area in May and am looking forward to checking out all the local trails and meeting new people to ride with.

    Count me in for this if it happens =)

  94. #94
    Human Crayon
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    new to the boards and in CO Springs....count me in. Sounds like fun.

    If it comes down to designing shirts - feel free to hit me up, I do graphics and web stuff.
    ..:: sleestak ::..
    [SIZE] Matters [/SIZE]

  95. #95
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    i just want to add my .02 cents that i would love to take part in a colorado springs fat tire fest RIDE!!! (as in ride your bike, not drive it) and will be pedalling 30:18 all the way.

    wouldn't this ride be one time you DON'T shuttle?

  96. #96
    Your retarded
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    Quote Originally Posted by isotopesope
    wouldn't this ride be one time you DON'T shuttle?
    Na, most of the time I don't shuttle. I think this ride will be the one times I will deliberately shuttle... just to get under the skin of all of those riders who somehow see shuttling as a cardinal sin.
    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  97. #97
    Inflexable...
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    Won't almost everyone have to shuttle to get to the event? I don't see what the big deal is...


    Oh, and there is another thread now posted about this...
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  98. #98
    enlightened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    I think this ride will be the one times I will deliberately shuttle... just to get under the skin of all of those riders who somehow see shuttling as a cardinal sin.
    You gonna burn, boy. Burn in H-E-double hockey sticks.

  99. #99
    rr
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    Quote Originally Posted by athalliah
    You gonna burn, boy. Burn in H-E-double hockey sticks.
    Nothing a good week long christian man camp can't fix

  100. #100
    Your retarded
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    Nothing a good week long christian man camp can't fix
    rroeder's teaching it. The class is titled "How I got ungayed: the personal experiences of Rick."
    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

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