Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27
  1. #1
    Yappy little dog!
    Reputation: schnauzers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,875

    NTM or Rt. 93 Greenway

    Holy crap JCOS! WTF kind of trail construction is this?!?



    This is a damn shame and if it is any indication of what they will build on top of the mountain, then this is an abomination. Or, it's a message to mountain bikers... "nothing to see here, move along".





    Hmmm... I don't see too much difference between the old and new.



    You might as well pave it, because it is wide enough for two cars. I'm all for new trails, but if it has to be at this expense then why teach classes on how to build sustainable trails by hand? For shame!

    And if you can't tell how wide it is, here's a hint. This was at it's most narrow point.


  2. #2
    slow
    Reputation: sgltrak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,190
    Hopefully it will grow back. Larimer County did that a couple of years ago to an existing trail along the shore of Horsetooth Reservoir, but a couple of years later, it has gone back mostly to single track.

  3. #3
    Your bike sucks
    Reputation: Carl Mega's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    716
    Does that look like its finished to you? Seriously?

    Without knowing the details of this particular trail, I feel safe in saying it will start as 4' wide tread just like all JCOS trails. It's in the first stage of its construction - nothing shocking. There's still quite a bit left to do.

    Its certainly debateable as to trail constructed in this manner is the ideal but I know first hand that all of Centennial Cone, LOTB to Pence, Zorro, and anything JCOS built in recent memory was constructed to this spec and people seem to like those parks.

  4. #4
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
    Reputation: SkaredShtles's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    10,274
    Looks like mechanized trail construction to me... I'm wondering - do they make a Singletrack Bobcat?

  5. #5
    Yappy little dog!
    Reputation: schnauzers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,875
    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    Looks like mechanized trail construction to me... I'm wondering - do they make a Singletrack Bobcat?

    It is a swayco. It was parked up the trail. They do make a smaller width walk behind. We used one in Philadelphia at Wissahickon.

  6. #6
    Yappy little dog!
    Reputation: schnauzers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,875
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega
    Does that look like its finished to you? Seriously?

    Without knowing the details of this particular trail, I feel safe in saying it will start as 4' wide tread just like all JCOS trails. It's in the first stage of its construction - nothing shocking. There's still quite a bit left to do.

    Its certainly debateable as to trail constructed in this manner is the ideal but I know first hand that all of Centennial Cone, LOTB to Pence, Zorro, and anything JCOS built in recent memory was constructed to this spec and people seem to like those parks.
    Understood, but it's still not singletrack. i think I like skinny stuff better.

  7. #7
    Your bike sucks
    Reputation: Carl Mega's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    716
    Sweco.

    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    It is a swayco. It was parked up the trail. They do make a smaller width walk behind. We used one in Philadelphia at Wissahickon.

  8. #8
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
    Reputation: SkaredShtles's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    10,274
    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    Understood, but it's still not singletrack. i think I like skinny stuff better.
    Yeah - but they have to meet standards...

  9. #9
    Almost Human
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,034
    It was cut with the SWECO last week. If I'm not mistaken, the next step is to bring a mini-ex in and move some of the material around. The youth corps, not JCOS staff, will then be doing the finish work which explains why the trail hasn't been fully completed. Many just got out of school this week.


    UT

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: silverstreak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    144
    "You might as well pave it, because it is wide enough for two cars."

    Um....how big is your bike?

    The Cone was built with the same Sweco, BTW

  11. #11
    Yappy little dog!
    Reputation: schnauzers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,875
    Quote Originally Posted by silverstreak
    "You might as well pave it, because it is wide enough for two cars."

    Um....how big is your bike?

    The Cone was built with the same Sweco, BTW
    It's a small frame, but it's still as wide as a small suv.

    I know the cone was built that way. That's why I never say let's go ride the singletrack at CC. The problem is at the top of NTM is "social trail" singletrack and even some on the east side. Not much of it, but nice.

    It will take a few years to fill in, but even then the cut will be forever visible a la Mayhem Gulch trail. Oh well.

  12. #12
    Heathen
    Reputation: TooManyToyz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    746
    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    Looks like mechanized trail destruction to me...
    Corrected.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    8
    I live over by NTM and was really excited about the trail, thinking that it would be an alternative route to get to the north end of Golden on my bike commute to work, and not have to ride Hwy 93. My cyclocross commuter bike is great for riding dirt, so this would be no problem! The trail would be much more useful if it connected to the lower end of the Table Rock subdivision, rather than the way they've aligned it high up on the hill. Plus, putting in this new trail parallel to the existing trail seems like a complete waste of effort.

    People living near Hwy 93 and 58th Ave deserve to have a safe route to bike into Golden without riding on Hwy 93. It's really too bad that Jeffco doesn't seem willing to build the lower connecting section this year - the crew is already out there, and a lower trail would be much more useful than what they're working on right now!!

    Call Thea Rock at Jeffco Open Space and tell her we need a lower connecting trail this year.
    303-271-5902

  14. #14
    skillz to pay billz
    Reputation: nOOby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    3,556
    gotta make it safe for recumbents.

  15. #15
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
    Reputation: SkaredShtles's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    10,274
    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyToyz
    Corrected.
    Any time a trail is created it is by definition destruction. NTTAWWT.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Reporterkyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    476
    That's my backyard, too, but let's hold off on being overly critical until the thing is finished. They obviously have just started and what you are seeing does not represent a completed product. Whether the thing ends up being 8-inch wide singletrack or a two-foot crushed gravel trail, it is great to see JeffCo adding to the stock of trails we can ride. Ultimately, this will make it easier to access some of the better riding on NTM, which is good.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: enduroslrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    119
    Quote Originally Posted by Reporterkyle
    That's my backyard, too, but let's hold off on being overly critical until the thing is finished. They obviously have just started and what you are seeing does not represent a completed product. Whether the thing ends up being 8-inch wide singletrack or a two-foot crushed gravel trail, it is great to see JeffCo adding to the stock of trails we can ride. Ultimately, this will make it easier to access some of the better riding on NTM, which is good.
    Very well said. I think we should definitely cut JCOS some slack on this one.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    50
    Have no idea what they're doing up there and have never even ridden up there but just a little FYI. i live at the bottom of STM and the trails up there are nothin special but if you dont got much time and just feel like goin for a cruise then bombin down one of the side trails its kinda fun. a while back i saw a lot of tracks like that (some new, some on existing trails that had been dug up) and wondered what they were doing. well it turns out they filled them all in with gravel, obviously for hikers. i repeat, no dirt, just gravel!! to me, thats about as big of a b###h slap to mtn bikers as there is. hikers can walk on dirt just fine, but to mtn bike on gravel is just stupid. oh well, dont really care as those trails like a said were nothin special anyway, i just dont see the need to do that anywhere. oh well, maybe i missed something but thats what happened over here last time i saw tracks like that

  19. #19
    Pivot Rider
    Reputation: Yetigirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,089
    Quote Originally Posted by enduroslrider
    Very well said. I think we should definitely cut JCOS some slack on this one.
    ditto! Sometimes I think that we are all too quick to be critical, but yet get all indignant when others jump to conclusions about us. FWIW, to form a more positive environment for our mtn biking community, maybe engendering a less critical attitude might help??
    Dirt Divas website l Twitter: @thedirtdivas l Facebook

  20. #20
    Yappy little dog!
    Reputation: schnauzers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,875
    Quote Originally Posted by Reporterkyle
    That's my backyard, too, but let's hold off on being overly critical until the thing is finished. They obviously have just started and what you are seeing does not represent a completed product. Whether the thing ends up being 8-inch wide singletrack or a two-foot crushed gravel trail, it is great to see JeffCo adding to the stock of trails we can ride. Ultimately, this will make it easier to access some of the better riding on NTM, which is good.
    Huh? Adding? Easier? They are just paralleling what is already there but taking away the climb. I actually like the climb. Also, they are shortcutting the road, And, God forbid it be a crushed gravel trail. That would really suck big time.

  21. #21
    Yappy little dog!
    Reputation: schnauzers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,875
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetigirl
    ditto! Sometimes I think that we are all too quick to be critical, but yet get all indignant when others jump to conclusions about us. FWIW, to form a more positive environment for our mtn biking community, maybe engendering a less critical attitude might help??
    Have you seen it in person? This one deserves some criticism. Sorry.

  22. #22
    Your bike sucks
    Reputation: Carl Mega's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    716
    I agree. Using crusher fine is big mistake in this case. I think it's terrible. I don't consider crusher to be natural surface and IMHO there didn't appear to be a good reason to use a non-natural surface on STM - I'm guessing they did it to control human behavor but I can see no reason from errosion or wear perspective that would necessitate crusher on the top of STM.

    As far the single track comments from Mr. NJ-know-it-all (I feel entitled to poke fun at that state of origin since it's mine as well - no love loss on that move a decade ago)...I, too, was skeptical that 4' was a reasonable starting point...After a few seasons of building trails, I've seen 4' wide sections fill in entirely or turn into very nice ST...Of course the reveg, depends on a lot of factors such as location, soil and usage - I was still shocked on how nicely some of it beds in quite narrow. Some of it will gravitate to 6'' - some to 6' so there's no guarantee. I still think they should address the specs based more on the situation and less on the "standard".

    Quote Originally Posted by schw8901
    Have no idea what they're doing up there and have never even ridden up there but just a little FYI. i live at the bottom of STM and the trails up there are nothin special but if you dont got much time and just feel like goin for a cruise then bombin down one of the side trails its kinda fun. a while back i saw a lot of tracks like that (some new, some on existing trails that had been dug up) and wondered what they were doing. well it turns out they filled them all in with gravel, obviously for hikers. i repeat, no dirt, just gravel!! to me, thats about as big of a b###h slap to mtn bikers as there is. hikers can walk on dirt just fine, but to mtn bike on gravel is just stupid. oh well, dont really care as those trails like a said were nothin special anyway, i just dont see the need to do that anywhere. oh well, maybe i missed something but thats what happened over here last time i saw tracks like that

  23. #23
    Yappy little dog!
    Reputation: schnauzers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,875
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega
    As far the single track comments from Mr. NJ-know-it-all (I feel entitled to poke fun at that state of origin since it's mine as well - no love loss on that move a decade ago)...I, too, was skeptical that 4' was a reasonable starting point...After a few seasons of building trails, I've seen 4' wide sections fill in entirely or turn into very nice ST...Of course the reveg, depends on a lot of factors such as location, soil and usage - I was still shocked on how nicely some of it beds in quite narrow. Some of it will gravitate to 6'' - some to 6' so there's no guarantee. I still think they should address the specs based more on the situation and less on the "standard".
    I understand that there would be narrowing, I have seen it on the 24" tread we built by hand. However, the difference with the machine is that you will always notice the bench cut through the width of the blade. Even though there might be a 12" tread after time, you will always see the 4' original cut. Again, I point to CC and especially Mayhem Gulch. The dit is getting skinny, but the path remains. I guess what I am really trying to say is that ii is very ugly. It's not the kind of trail you seek out (not that anyone is seeking out NTM ).

    This is a trail: (edit: same mountain - and it will be reclaimed)



    What JeffCo is building is a Path.

    And yes, Joisey Boyz know it all.

  24. #24
    not actually bad :)
    Reputation: bad_andy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,568
    Schnauzers, Schnauzers, Schnauzers...
    Down boy!!!!!!
    Hope you come back from your trip relaxed!

    [SIZE="5"]I say "thank you JCOS"[/SIZE] for more trails, paths, whatever you want to call it.
    Old Codger

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Comrade K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    192
    From the photos, it looks like they are planning to butcher NTM just as they did STM last summer. When they're done scraping, look for a deep layer of crushed granite. The posted objective for the butchery on STM was to allow for better wet-weather use. If you've been up there lately, you know they completely missed the few areas that actually collect and hold water.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •