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  1. #1
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    Not winning at Marshall Mesa

    Thanks to the well wishers last night. I knew my clavical was broke right when it happened and I wanted to hike out as far as possible before the pain really set in so i appologize if i was a little in a rush going down the trail. So much for biking in May, but see you all on the trails ASAP!
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindavis
    Thanks to the well wishers last night. I knew my clavical was broke right when it happened and I wanted to hike out as far as possible before the pain really set in so i appologize if i was a little in a rush going down the trail. So much for biking in May, but see you all on the trails ASAP!
    You wouldn't think Marshall Mesa was bad wreck territory but I didn't think that about Spring Brook either before my similar wreck a year ago.

    Take the long view, you'll be back riding sometime this year, maybe not end of May but keep the faith. Good luck.
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  3. #3
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    ...and I didn't expect it to happen to me on flat glassy-smooth doubletrack @GM.

    Heal up!
    Trailwrecker at large

  4. #4
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    Did you happen to run into someone's pack of off-leash dogs?

  5. #5
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    Wow, are you having surgery to have a plate put in? I was up there today, the Boulder crew must have heard about your wreck cause they were taking all the rocks off the trail on Springbrook.

  6. #6
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    heal up fast, the bike park opens in a month!
    Kona Wo for Fat Biking, Ibis HD3 for Trail Shredding, Merckx Road bike for collecting dust in garage

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubes17319
    ...and I didn't expect it to happen to me on flat glassy-smooth doubletrack @GM.

    Heal up!
    And I didn't expect it to happen to me on innocent Lair! Healing wishes going your way!
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  8. #8
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    I did a nice OTB coming down the connector to Spring Brook last year. Luckily I only scraped up/bruised my arms and tweaked my elbow a bit. Was completely smooth and I still don't know what cause the accident, it all happened so fast.

    Conspiracy theory: Are there invisible woodland creatures that make us crash when we least expect it on smooth trails?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetigirl
    And I didn't expect it to happen to me on innocent Lair! Healing wishes going your way!
    Speaking of LOTB, there's a not-so-innocent switchback on the early part of the trail (can't be more specific than that) where, going for the win, I motored up and thought I was gonna continue but failed miserably, put my foot down, there wasn't anything to put my foot down and almost tumbled down crap who knows how far, 80 feet? Look down there sometime and figure how far you'd tumble if you just went off of it.

    I'm just sayin', innocent trail, flat trail, when it's your time...
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  10. #10
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    Ortho says they cant see me till monday (kaiser) I'm gonna ask for a plate for sure. If not through kaiser, then i will borrow some dough and do it out of plan (which i may do anyways)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindavis
    Ortho says they cant see me till monday (kaiser) I'm gonna ask for a plate for sure. If not through kaiser, then i will borrow some dough and do it out of plan (which i may do anyways)
    When I crashed I called my doc at Kaiser and drove straight there. From your Xrays it looks like that was what you did. Are you saying you can't see a specialist/surgeon till Monday? I'd just keep calling, that's not right. I've had surgery at Kaiser (Exempla Hospital next door at Rock Creek ) the day after some other accidents I've had.
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

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    Yeah--they said, over the phone, i was too swollen. Im calling back in the morning for sure

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    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindavis
    Yeah--they said, over the phone, i was too swollen. Im calling back in the morning for sure
    Good luck, man. I mean, Monday is five days from now. Swelling could go down by Friday, you get worked on, you start healing starting Saturday. What do I know, I'm not a doc, I trust Kaiser, it's just that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, ya know?

    Fer instance, I was gonna get my cast off on (fill in the date). Me being drugged up, I forgot and went in the next day. They said, no that was yesterday, we can get to you in two weeks. I screamed and yelled (respectfully, always be respectful but forceful) and got my cast off within the hour. Freakin' casts.
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  14. #14
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    Heal up fast bud!

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    Kaiser has pretty good ortho docs. I'm sure they would want the swelling down before they do surgery to avoid complications. Clavicles heal pretty well, good blood supply. Best of luck to you.

  16. #16
    Kaj
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    no idea if this is common with everyone with Kaiser, but my 3 breaks/crashes requiring MRI's in the past 4 years were handled by Kaiser ortho folks very well. from initial screening to fixing to PT, it was pretty good.
    Kona Wo for Fat Biking, Ibis HD3 for Trail Shredding, Merckx Road bike for collecting dust in garage

  17. #17
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    When I completely shattered my collarbone it was a week before they did surgery. A very long week.

    My son cratered his in Canada and he waited about a week, also. No big deal.

    BTW, if they have to put in a long plate, it can be a real PIA for stuff like backpacks, so you may be looking at another surgery in 9 months to a year.

  18. #18
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    i hate kaiser - x rays are quick and easy - but I had to wait a long time to see the surgeon (and I would rather have a choice of surgeon)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    Good luck, man. I mean, Monday is five days from now. Swelling could go down by Friday, you get worked on, you start healing starting Saturday. What do I know, I'm not a doc, I trust Kaiser, it's just that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, ya know?

    Fer instance, I was gonna get my cast off on (fill in the date). Me being drugged up, I forgot and went in the next day. They said, no that was yesterday, we can get to you in two weeks. I screamed and yelled (respectfully, always be respectful but forceful) and got my cast off within the hour. Freakin' casts.


    or



    for easy, low cost, cast removal.

    On the note of hidden trail features: I caught a rock hiding in the grass on the trail side. Smashed my left foot, which threw me forward into the bars/stem, while my right ankle caught the pedal. It was one of those times when you just keep riding, because looking will surely make it broken and bleeding.

  20. #20
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    Bad wrecks occur when you least expect it, because you least expect it.
    When you start riding again this perspective will help you, hopefully.


    Heal fast, like ninja
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  21. #21
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    I do appreciate all the comments and well wishes. Especially all the others that were attacked by the elusive Trail Snipe which favors attacking on smooth sections of trail! Just reassuring to know I am not alone. ;-)

  22. #22
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    Surgery tomorrow, plate and screw style. Very happy to get it going and start healing. Still scratching my head as to the cost-- the physicians assistant said it will probably be more than I am guessing. Oh well--I will cross that bridge when I come to it--gonna have to be on credit and really no coice either way. If any of you with surgery recall the cost, I would love to know the ballpark figure.

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    Surgey. . . Really? When I broke mine the docs said as long as the two ends are in the same zip code you'll be fine. Yeah I have a bit of a lump now but, oh well. I had to use spider fingers for about a month to do anything with my RIGHT hand. I was 27 then (maybe why?) and thought it healed up reasonably fast. No joke I was going on 20 mile road rides a week after my break. I couldn't move my hand off the top of the bars but oh well I was going places. I was NOT going to sit on my a$$ and watch tv with all the time I had earned (from the break) off from work.

  24. #24
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    My ends after a week still are not even close---here is the shot from this morning. pretty large broken chunk in there, too.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Not winning at Marshall Mesa-monitor.jpg  

    Last edited by mountaindavis; 05-09-2011 at 07:48 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindavis
    Surgery tomorrow, plate and screw style. Very happy to get it going and start healing. Still scratching my head as to the cost-- the physicians assistant said it will probably be more than I am guessing. Oh well--I will cross that bridge when I come to it--gonna have to be on credit and really no coice either way. If any of you with surgery recall the cost, I would love to know the ballpark figure.

    Holy crap, are you saying you don't have insurance? None?

    I don't know if you know how our wonderful modern medical system works, but if you have *no* insurance, they charge you an absolutely outrageous fee for everything, while the insurance companies get massive discounts. This is why *no one* should not at least get a policy of some kind, even if it has a massive deductible. If you have coverage of any kind, you'll get the insurance company's negotiated rate, which will be at least half of the "rack rate."

    If you are paying the full rate for that surgery, you are looking at $30-40K. Then later, the plate removal will run at least another $10-15K.

    Seriously? No insurance at all?

  26. #26
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    I just meant my portion--I have Kaiser--just can't find my paperwork for costs--I should have put that, I'm just foggy from having no sleep for a week and the pain. Stupid percocet makes me want to toss my cookies, so I haven't been on pain meds. I can't imagine having to go through this without insurance--that would be very, very tough.

  27. #27
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    None of us would have any idea what your total would be. However, if you call Kaiser, discuss the details of your particular plan, they might be able to give you a ballpark.

    Kaiser (Exempla) sent me (why to me I don't know) the bill for my wrist surgery--$21k! After Exempla dealt with Kaiser (as only hospitals and insurance companies do) Kaiser paid Exempla $7000 (they sent me that, too, why I don't know). My total out of pocket was $150. If I'd strolled into Exempla with no insurance, I'd still be mopping floors there trying to pay off my surgery.

    If I'd been on a different plan my out-of-pocket would have been way different. It all depends on the plan you're on.

    And, if you haven't had surgery before, when you get to the hospital just let go. It's out of your hands, just let go. Good luck.
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by kberkle
    Surgey. . . Really? When I broke mine the docs said as long as the two ends are in the same zip code you'll be fine. Yeah I have a bit of a lump now but, oh well. I had to use spider fingers for about a month to do anything with my RIGHT hand. I was 27 then (maybe why?) and thought it healed up reasonably fast. No joke I was going on 20 mile road rides a week after my break. I couldn't move my hand off the top of the bars but oh well I was going places. I was NOT going to sit on my a$$ and watch tv with all the time I had earned (from the break) off from work.
    Your injury was not his injury.
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy

    And, if you haven't had surgery before, when you get to the hospital just let go. It's out of your hands, just let go. Good luck.
    Great advice. I hope he got it in time.

    Mental attitude has a huge impact on recovery from any illness or injury, and it also has a huge impact on the surgery itself. You just want to stay calm and let the doc do the work. Your brain is still functioning under anesthesia, and your brain and body are still connected.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit
    Holy crap, are you saying you don't have insurance? None?

    I don't know if you know how our wonderful modern medical system works, but if you have *no* insurance, they charge you an absolutely outrageous fee for everything, while the insurance companies get massive discounts. This is why *no one* should not at least get a policy of some kind, even if it has a massive deductible. If you have coverage of any kind, you'll get the insurance company's negotiated rate, which will be at least half of the "rack rate."

    If you are paying the full rate for that surgery, you are looking at $30-40K. Then later, the plate removal will run at least another $10-15K.

    Seriously? No insurance at all?
    You have this completely backwards.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Disney's Frozen Head
    You have this completely backwards.
    I have what completely backwards?

    If you have no insurance, you pay the "rack rate." If you have insurance, the insurance company pays the rate they negotiated with the provider, and you pay the deductible.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit
    I have what completely backwards?

    If you have no insurance, you pay the "rack rate." If you have insurance, the insurance company pays the rate they negotiated with the provider, and you pay the deductible.
    I think Walt was saying the typical way of getting this surgery is that you first take out the plate then a few years later you have the surgery to put it in for the first time. Makes sense.
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    I think Walt was saying the typical way of getting this surgery is that you first take out the plate then a few years later you have the surgery to put it in for the first time. Makes sense.

    Ha!

    I had my collarbone surgery before plates were generally used. The doc inserted a metal pin that skewered the bone together and which stuck right out of my shoulder. Bad idea. I got a major staph infection in the bone and in the incision. It was six weeks of IV antibiotics and a lot of sleepless nights. No surgery necessary to remove the pin: he just yanked it out.

    My son had a plate about 3.5" long. It bothered him, and about a year later he had it removed. Of course a couple of the screws broke off, so the 45 minute surgery ended up being 2:15.

    It is good that they have this technology now, but nothing is good about anesthesia or the risk of infection.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit
    Ha!

    I had my collarbone surgery before plates were generally used. The doc inserted a metal pin that skewered the bone together and which stuck right out of my shoulder. Bad idea. I got a major staph infection in the bone and in the incision. It was six weeks of IV antibiotics and a lot of sleepless nights. No surgery necessary to remove the pin: he just yanked it out.

    My son had a plate about 3.5" long. It bothered him, and about a year later he had it removed. Of course a couple of the screws broke off, so the 45 minute surgery ended up being 2:15.

    It is good that they have this technology now, but nothing is good about anesthesia or the risk of infection.
    I think you have that all backwards.

  35. #35
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    So far, it was just $200 for outpatient surgery. Awesome! They didnt know if I would get separate physician bill or not, so we will see. Great procedure and staff--feeling prettty positve about the whole thing. 9 screws. Now for the recovery!
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  36. #36
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    That looks much better! Have a speedy recovery.

  37. #37
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    And now for something they don't tell you: if you're going to be taking painkillers (I'm usually on Vicodin) your intestines aren't going to be working like they should. You need to start drinking Citrucel (or something like that) to keep you regular. Trust me on that.

    Hey, somebody had to say it!
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    I think Walt was saying the typical way of getting this surgery is that you first take out the plate then a few years later you have the surgery to put it in for the first time. Makes sense.

    Yeah, I'm not sure if I could've been more vague if I'd made that my intention.

    anywho, what I should have pointed out is that while uninsured folk may (generally) pay a "rack rate", that rate is significantly lower than the rate billed to your insurance. You see Billed rates, Contracted Rates (max allowed for procedure x) on your insurance statements but don't get those confused with what you'd pay if you walked in there without insurance. A physician could bill the insurance carrier $9M for a simple x-ray but the negotiated payout to the physician may be $180 for Anthem, $200 for Kaiser... ...etc. whether or not this amount includes the patient co-pay is also a contractual item.

    Now that I see HU was including Co-Pay in the discussion, well that goes without saying that your co-pay would/should be less than the cost of your services sans insurance.

    The biggest reason you'll pay less without insurance is that the clinic will get their money considerably faster (assuming you pay) than dealing with Insurance carrier X. Tangentially, this is one of the bigger factors in the ridiculous cost of medical insurance.

    Now I'm generalizing across the whole medical services industry and there are certainly exceptions but by and large this will hold true with any "insurance" type claim from Automotive, to household to...???

    Regarding Kaiser and Exempla, they have a very close shared/reciprocal relationship in Colorado. This is mostly because of Kaiser's lack of facilities in what is their newest market.

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    You are correct--and fortunately the ER doc told me that too. I am quite a bit "off schedule" for sure :-). I am on percocet, same deal.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindavis
    You are correct--and fortunately the ER doc told me that too. I am quite a bit "off schedule" for sure :-). I am on percocet, same deal.
    Hey man, you're awake and coherent. As far as painkillers, I was on Percocet before my surgery and Vicodin after. Don't try to "take the pain" use the painkillers. If Percocet makes you sick ask for another one, either way you need to let your body concentrate on healing rather than fighting the pain. The docs told me that, too.
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

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    I'm with ya--taking the percocet+anti-nausea--I just "seem" coherent, but actually typing very slow. Alarm set every 4 hours, even waking me up, to pop a couple. They said I want to keep the pain killers in front of the pain instead of chasing it--that you cant ever really catch up once you fall behind. Great to know for others that will go through this.

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    +100 on taking your pain pills.I broke my femur last month and am just now not having to take them all day every day.felt a little offish the first day I didn't take them but it passed.
    good luck on your recovery.folks who are in good shape to begin with tend to do well so don't worry too much.anyone up for a front range temporary cripples meet up.amble around Chautauqua and commiserate on the pain and horror of a bike-less life maybe?

  43. #43
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    Well, about 2 weeks out of surgery and all seems to be going alright (all things considered). Still sore, but doing good. For posterity sake, I thought i would tell you the bills. The Emergency Room at Boulder Community ran$3442. My deductible was $200 (all I paid). The Ortho consult was $840 (I paid $50) and the surgery bill was $30,108 (another @$200). So all told, I have paid $450 and the bills came to about $35,000. Those are the "facts" but I have no friggin idea how they come up with $30K for an outpatient proceedure, but I am not complaining. Very thankful to have insurance, I will tell you that much. I hear to get the hardware out, if necessary, that those typically run $15K. Sheesh!

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindavis View Post
    Well, about 2 weeks out of surgery and all seems to be going alright (all things considered). Still sore, but doing good. For posterity sake, I thought i would tell you the bills. The Emergency Room at Boulder Community ran$3442. My deductible was $200 (all I paid). The Ortho consult was $840 (I paid $50) and the surgery bill was $30,108 (another @$200). So all told, I have paid $450 and the bills came to about $35,000. Those are the "facts" but I have no friggin idea how they come up with $30K for an outpatient proceedure, but I am not complaining. Very thankful to have insurance, I will tell you that much. I hear to get the hardware out, if necessary, that those typically run $15K. Sheesh!
    First off, I see your "Rep Power" is just 1, so I'd work on that if I was you.

    Second, heal up so you go can get out there and tear up the trails again. Start on an easy trail, like Marshal Me.....uh, I mean Springbro...I mean...what's the worst that can happen, right?
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  45. #45
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    I'm sorry, am I the only one who doesn't know what a "rep power" is as it appears mine is very low as well. Please advise as to how I can boost it up, whatever it is.

  46. #46
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    Yeah, I had no idea what it is but I found a mediocre explaination of it in the FAQ section under reputation. To be honest, I still don't fully get it. I don't bicker, insult or post negative things toward others, if that is what it is about. I certainly am not going to actively work on a social grading scale--that is just not why I am here. Maybe I just have to click my knuckles together and shout "REP POWER UP!". Well, nothing just happened, no sparks, no thunder. That must not be it. :-)

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