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  1. #1
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    No, it wasn't lightning sir...

    Apparently some people take their jobs just a little too seriously...

    "Babcock said Hesterberg had repeatedly asked the ranger why he was being detained. She didn't answer him, Babcock said.


    "He just tried to walk away. She never gave him a reason," Babcock said.
    The ranger shot Hesterberg in the back with her shock weapon as he walked off, Babcock said.


    "We were like in disbelief," she said. "It didn't make any sense."
    Rancho Corral de Tierra has long been an off-leash walking spot for local dog owners.



    In December, the area became part of the national park system, which requires that all dogs be on a leash, Levitt said.


    The ranger was trying to educate residents of the rule, Levitt said."



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  2. #2
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    Giving a false name is pretty GD stupid. If you're gonna break the rules at least man up. That being said, WTF? That ranger should never be allowed to carry any type of weapon again. Welcome to recreating outdoors, 2012.
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    Welcome to the new AmeriKa.

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    It's a dog off leash! Why not lie? See if you can push it up misdemeanors and felonies. It can be done (easily!)!

  5. #5
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    I would use a fake name too, i got chased by the Wash Park dog police one time while riding with my dog off leash, we would have escaped too if it weren't for my dog getting too tired. I got a ticket in the name of Pete O Towns. Sorry officer no ID on me.
    Without rules, we all might as well be up in a tree flinging our crap at each other. Red Foreman - That 70's show.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    Apparently some people take their jobs just a little too seriously...
    Maybe the dogs were "Occupying"

    There is no way you can spin this story to make the ranger look good

  7. #7
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    "Freeze! Put your hands where I can see them. Step away from the dog poo".
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  8. #8
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    Funny stuff, but a ranger is a police officer, and it wasn't about educating a man about dogs off leash anymore... he was trying to leave the scene. What did he expect? I'm not sure being tazed was appropriate, but this is all on the guy disobeying the law and disobeying the ranger. He's an idiot, IMO.
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  9. #9
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    No real winner here...
    baker

  10. #10
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    maybe not as one-sided as it seems.

    Quote Originally Posted by davec113 View Post
    Funny stuff, but a ranger is a police officer, and it wasn't about educating a man about dogs off leash anymore... he was trying to leave the scene. What did he expect? I'm not sure being tazed was appropriate, but this is all on the guy disobeying the law and disobeying the ranger. He's an idiot, IMO.
    It's really hard to know what went on without having been there. The story is being related by one side.

    But davec's point resonates. Whether you are a highway patrol officer, park ranger, middle school teacher--taking crap once means being labeled as an authority figure who will roll over and take it again. In military academies and student teaching instruction good advice is: "don't take any crap".

    Cops of all kinds have a hard job, and our world would be a much worse place if they all were spineless goobers who let anything pass once the situation got uncomfortable. Sure, there are going to be some Barney Fifes any time you hand out badges. Keep in mind, Barney was a fearful, insecure dude and his unreasonable stances were the actions of an insecure person (yes, much of my understanding of the world is a product of many hours of situation comedy study).

    An authority figure who is confident and unwavering keeps situations under control. That's something that comes out of experience and understanding of people. Remember, Andy was a successful authority figure who didn't even carry a gun (again with the situation comedy wisdom).

    The fact that this ranger was a woman and the dude she tazed was a man is significant. Female authority figures tend to have it harder just because of gender roles.

    That said, there was a really funny/sad story from here in Mayberry (err, Salida) a couple summers ago about a code enforcement officer who ticketed two little girls for operating a lemonade stand without a permit. That made the Denver Post.
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  11. #11
    zrm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Otis Towns View Post
    I would use a fake name too, i got chased by the Wash Park dog police one time while riding with my dog off leash, we would have escaped too if it weren't for my dog getting too tired. I got a ticket in the name of Pete O Towns. Sorry officer no ID on me.
    That's one reason why cops will escalate a situation to the level described. If you're going to play the civil disobedience angle, man up and take the consequences of your action and state your case. Lying and worming your way out of a ticket only ensures that in the future ante will be higher.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post
    That's one reason why cops will escalate a situation to the level described. If you're going to play the civil disobedience angle, man up and take the consequences of your action and state your case. Lying and worming your way out of a ticket only ensures that in the future ante will be higher.
    There is no reason to escalate to tazing someone who is walking a dog off leash in the back as they walk away. If the Ranger couldn't handle the situation she should have called for back-up. And yes I weasled out of a ticket, do I feel bad? Not in the slightest. It was a Sunday morning about 6:30 am, and there was nobody in the park.

    We made a clean dash for it, they chased me clear accross the soccer field in their white van with yellow lights flashing. Man they were pissed when they caught me but no one was tazed.

    If cops continue to over step their boundries and get trigger happy there will be more law suits. Just look at DPD for proof.
    Last edited by Pete Otis Towns; 01-31-2012 at 02:12 PM.
    Without rules, we all might as well be up in a tree flinging our crap at each other. Red Foreman - That 70's show.

  13. #13
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    Sometimes I wish there was a little more tasering going on. People seem to be loosing respect for the law and for the people trying to uphold it these days. My cousin is a cop, and some of the stories that he tells me is just ridiculous. Fortunately he has a very calm and patient demeanor.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Short Bus View Post
    Sometimes I wish there was a little more tasering going on.
    You need to have that as your signature line, lol
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post
    No real winner here...
    Seems like the ranger won... zap!... thud.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113 View Post
    Funny stuff, but a ranger is a police officer..
    Not trying to be obtuse but is that really accurate?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113 View Post
    seems like the ranger won... Zap!... Thud. :d
    lol
    baker

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Disney's Frozen Head View Post
    Not trying to be obtuse but is that really accurate?
    Yes, although jurisdiction is sometimes limited to the place they are employed to oversee and the surrounding areas.
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  19. #19
    zrm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Otis Towns View Post
    There is no reason to escalate to tazing someone who is walking a dog off leash in the back as they walk away. If the Ranger couldn't handle the situation she should have called for back-up. And yes I weasled out of a ticket, do I feel bad? Not in the slightest. It was a Sunday morning about 6:30 am, and there was nobody in the park.

    We made a clean dash for it, they chased me clear accross the soccer field in their white van with yellow lights flashing. Man they were pissed when they caught me but no one was tazed.

    If cops continue to over step their boundries and get trigger happy there will be more law suits. Just look at DPD for proof.
    Like I said, if you're going to flaunt disregarding the law, you should man up and accept responsibility for your actions. If you think you're being wronged, take it to court, take it to public opinion, get the law changed. I do know as soon as you run or walk away from an LEO of any kind you're asking for trouble. Only someone with a major sense of entitlement would expect otherwise.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Disney's Frozen Head View Post
    Not trying to be obtuse but is that really accurate?
    Depends on the jurisdiction.

    "State Parks - working title – Park Ranger. During the first year as a Park Ranger, this position will be required to attend a Colorado POST certified law enforcement academy. At the successful completion of this training the employee will be certified as a Colorado Peace Officer and will act in accordance to the official duties and authority of a Colorado Parks and Wildlife (CPW) and Outdoor Recreation Officer. "
    State Employment

    FWIW the State Parks Rangers I've worked with carry guns and handcuffs, not zappers and zip ties.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post
    Like I said, if you're going to flaunt disregarding the law, you should man up and accept responsibility for your actions. If you think you're being wronged, take it to court, take it to public opinion, get the law changed. I do know as soon as you run or walk away from an LEO of any kind you're asking for trouble. Only someone with a major sense of entitlement would expect otherwise.
    According to the article the area has been a long time off leash dog walking spot and had a brand new rule change. Probably unknown to most people using the area.

    Sounds like blatant flaunt disregarding to me.

    According to witnesses the man repeatedly asked why he was being detained and the ranger refused to answer.

    More blatant flaunt disregard.

    How dare this blatant flaunt disregarder feel entitled to not be detained without cause!

    The ranger was trying to educate residents of the rule, Orwell said

  22. #22
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    The article says that the ranger didn't reply to the "alleged" perp, but that doesn't mean she hadn't answered his questions numerous times before there were witnesses.

    I bumped into a female ranger in the Dowdy Draw (oops, sorry lidarman, I really meant Doudy---please forgive me???) and we were just shooting the ****, mainly about trailhead thievery. Her piece was on her other side, I didn't see it. I asked her "so, you packing?" She turned the other way and there her gun was. I asked her about her firearm training and to make a short story even shorter, she explained she was a police officer with a ton of training, hopefully able to deal with any manner of bad behavior in her territory.

    She basically let me know she would not take any **** from anybody, just like any police officer anywhere wouldn't. More power to them, I say. I've had police come to my aid before and I was sure glad they were there.
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post
    Like I said, if you're going to flaunt disregarding the law, you should man up and accept responsibility for your actions. If you think you're being wronged, take it to court, take it to public opinion, get the law changed. I do know as soon as you run or walk away from an LEO of any kind you're asking for trouble. Only someone with a major sense of entitlement would expect otherwise.
    If you say "man up" one more time, i'm going to have to take your man card.

    This happened in my mid twenties and as i recall it was more about me saying Fock you to the man and seeing if my dog and I could out run the Wash Park dog Police.

    Don't take your self so seriously; what you've never run a stop sign Mr. man up?
    Without rules, we all might as well be up in a tree flinging our crap at each other. Red Foreman - That 70's show.

  24. #24
    zrm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Otis Towns View Post
    If you say "man up" one more time, i'm going to have to take your man card.

    This happened in my mid twenties and as i recall it was more about me saying Fock you to the man and seeing if my dog and I could out run the Wash Park dog Police.

    Don't take your self so seriously; what you've never run a stop sign Mr. man up?
    Try not to run stop signs or stop lights. Even when I was in my 20s. I've seen a couple cars crushed like beer cans with mashed up little pulps inside and that's a couple too many. Not pretty.

    If I did run a stop sign and I got busted I wouldn't try to lie or bulls**t my way out of it Not the way I was raised I guess.

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    PTO - you're lucky you didn't land in jail with that running from the cops stunt. Refusing to give ID can land you in jail, too. I'm guessing this incident transpired before 9/11/2001. Things have changed dramatically since then when dealing with police (of any kind, that includes park rangers). As ZRM said, "[Own] up," to what you did and walk away. If you don't like it, that is what the courts are for.

    The man in the article could have walked away with a small fine. Now, because of his arrogance he is facing some serious penalties.

    The agage--give respect, get respect--rings true here.

  26. #26
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  27. #27
    zrm
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    Quote Originally Posted by YetiBear View Post
    "Bailiff, Whack his Pee Pee." -------Cheech and Chong
    How the hell was I supposed to know she was thoiteen, hell, she looked sixteen..

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    "She lied about her age. She told me she was 13".
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    The article says that the ranger didn't reply to the "alleged" perp, but that doesn't mean she hadn't answered his questions numerous times before there were witnesses.
    Any other speculation you care to offer? Witnesses (you know, someone that was actually there) said he asked and was given no reason for the stop. The most likely explanation is that he didn't know why. Occam's taser.
    You ARE entitled to be given a reason why law enforcement is detaining you.

    Tasers are not safe. Hundreds of people have died after being shot with a Taser. Did this ranger really think it was worth the risk of killing someone over a dog leash?



    Last edited by Moustache rider; 02-01-2012 at 03:09 PM.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogbie View Post
    PTO - you're lucky you didn't land in jail with that running from the cops stunt. Refusing to give ID can land you in jail, too. I'm guessing this incident transpired before 9/11/2001. Things have changed dramatically since then when dealing with police (of any kind, that includes park rangers). As ZRM said, "[Own] up," to what you did and walk away. If you don't like it, that is what the courts are for.

    The man in the article could have walked away with a small fine. Now, because of his arrogance he is facing some serious penalties.

    The agage--give respect, get respect--rings true here.
    I guess I was asleep when the USA became the GDR.

    We used to be proud that we WEREN'T the same as the USSR and the GDR. Now, ONE incident means we are supposed to be sheep and bend over for treatment that actually makes a lot of what went on behind the Iron Curtain look tame.

    F**ck.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    I guess I was asleep when the USA became the GDR.

    We used to be proud that we WEREN'T the same as the USSR and the GDR. Now, ONE incident means we are supposed to be sheep and bend over for treatment that actually makes a lot of what went on behind the Iron Curtain look tame.

    F**ck.

    Really? Please elaborate on the comparison between the OP's described incident and what went on behind the iron curtain.

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    Let's see. Suspect confronted by "authority" and attempted to be apprehended without being advised of a cause, then shot in the back while walking away. Suspect was doing nothing other than walking their dog in an area where walking dogs has been allowed for years.

    Is it clear now?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post
    Try not to run stop signs or stop lights. Even when I was in my 20s. I've seen a couple cars crushed like beer cans with mashed up little pulps inside and that's a couple too many. Not pretty.

    If I did run a stop sign and I got busted I wouldn't try to lie or bulls**t my way out of it Not the way I was raised I guess.
    Well Ned Flanders, I can only strive to be a perfect upstanding citizen like you one day. Have a great day.
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    Taze 'em all, take names later.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogbie View Post
    If you don't like it, that is what the courts are for.

    In this case, the courts will be there to see that the taxpayers pay his lawsuit claims.
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogbie View Post
    The agage--give respect, get respect--rings true here.
    You mean like answering the question - Why am I being detained?

    Maybe if she gave him a tad of respect and/or engaged him a bit it wouldn't have happened that way. He was not being hostile or confrontational. He provided a name, just had no ID. She could have done any number of things before zapping the guy back into obedience. That's what I do to my dogs (works like a charm!), but it shouldn't be practiced on people.

    Shame on the park service for not teaching their officers any social skillz, and letting this moron carry a deadly weapon without proper training. <-(assuming, based on the incedent)
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    I guess I was asleep when the USA became the GDR.

    We used to be proud that we WEREN'T the same as the USSR and the GDR. Now, ONE incident means we are supposed to be sheep and bend over for treatment that actually makes a lot of what went on behind the Iron Curtain look tame.

    F**ck.
    "lolz," "wut?" To quote Wushu Chicken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR View Post
    You mean like answering the question - Why am I being detained?

    Maybe if she gave him a tad of respect and/or engaged him a bit it wouldn't have happened that way. He was not being hostile or confrontational. He provided a name, just had no ID. She could have done any number of things before zapping the guy back into obedience. That's what I do to my dogs (works like a charm!), but it shouldn't be practiced on people.

    Shame on the park service for not teaching their officers any social skillz, and letting this moron carry a deadly weapon without proper training. <-(assuming, based on the incedent)
    Reread the article. I think you missed some key points.

    As long as we're making gross assumptions, let's assume the witnesses did not see the entire incident. Is it possible the ranger told the man he was being detained for not having his dogs on leash? There is no rule that the officer has to repeat themselves or to answer a, probably, indignant and belligerent question.

    It seems the ranger's protocol was pretty typical (not that that fact is unsettling). I think your understanding, and mine as well, of law enforcement's methods is not understood, even on an elementary level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogbie View Post
    Reread the article. I think you missed some key points.

    As long as we're making gross assumptions, let's assume the witnesses did not see the entire incident. Is it possible the ranger told the man he was being detained for not having his dogs on leash? There is no rule that the officer has to repeat themselves or to answer a, probably, indignant and belligerent question.

    It seems the ranger's protocol was pretty typical (not that that fact is unsettling). I think your understanding, and mine as well, of law enforcement's methods is not understood, even on an elementary level.

    What the hell is there to understand? The ranger used a potentially lethal weapon on a guy who was WALKING HIS DOG IMPROPERLY.

    Roll that around in your head for a moment.

    There is no threat to the ranger, no threat to anyone around them. The rangerette is just pissed that the guy is not kissing her ass. For that she shoots the guy.

    And you are OK with this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogbie View Post
    "lolz," "wut?" To quote Wushu Chicken.

    I give this post an IQ score of 75.

    I'm feeling generous.

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    and this is just an examination of one sentence*

    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    What the hell is there to understand? The ranger used a potentially lethal weapon on a guy who was WALKING HIS DOG IMPROPERLY.

    Roll that around in your head for a moment.

    There is no threat to the ranger, no threat to anyone around them. The rangerette is just pissed that the guy is not kissing her ass. For that she shoots the guy.

    And you are OK with this?
    No, because there is a lot left out in your description of the situation. I, highly, doubt your assumptions are even close to the actual situation. Your overreaction only further implies your failure to see this objectively. I think you mean illegally when you say, "improperly[sic]." However, the situation does not end at that transgression. By giving a false name and not providing ID the ranger detained him, more than likely to radio in the information he gave her. Then, by walking away from her he made an even larger offense. Here is the crux of the situation: one cannot simply walk away from an officer when they are writing a summons. Now, a hypothetical: what is the ranger supposed to do? Her job dictates she detains this man. What are her options to complete that task? Reasoning is out, the man denied that course when he gave false information. She can let the man walk away and follow him. This, of course, is illogical and, probably, violates protocol. She can try to physically stop him. The problem here is she is open to attack from the man. Finally, she can "'deploy her' electric-shock weapon" to stop the offender. It is logical that this is the last choice. The man picked this path. At several points he could have changed the outcome of this situation. This man deserves derision, not the ranger; who did her job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    What the hell is there to understand? The ranger used a potentially lethal weapon on a guy who was WALKING HIS DOG IMPROPERLY.

    Roll that around in your head for a moment.

    There is no threat to the ranger, no threat to anyone around them. The rangerette is just pissed that the guy is not kissing her ass. For that she shoots the guy.

    And you are OK with this?
    I don't think I've ever read such a misinterpretation of a police officer/perp confrontation as yours, honkinunit. You just must hate cops to your core and can "see" nothing but the "victim's" side of the story. A story that is only being told in a newspaper, I'm sure, inadequately. Try calling the police officer I met in the Doudy parking lot a "rangerette".
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

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    CxHyOz --> CO2 + H2O

    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    Try calling the police officer I met in the Doudy parking lot a "rangerette".
    His use of the pejorative "rangerette" implies his hate overlaps into some form of misogyny, as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    I don't think I've ever read such a misinterpretation of a police officer/perp confrontation as yours, honkinunit. You just must hate cops to your core and can "see" nothing but the "victim's" side of the story. A story that is only being told in a newspaper, I'm sure, inadequately. Try calling the police officer I met in the Doudy parking lot a "rangerette".

    I will if she gives me reason. It is not illegal to call someone names, except perhaps in the bizarre world inhabited by some people around here.

    Unless it was in the Patriot Act somewhere.

    Again, the 'perp' was an errant dog walker. Let's put this in perspective. If a private security officer tazed a guy for letting his poodles poop on someone's private property, I'm guessing you'd be all behind it?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogbie View Post
    No, because there is a lot left out in your description of the situation. I, highly, doubt your assumptions are even close to the actual situation. Your overreaction only further implies your failure to see this objectively. I think you mean illegally when you say, "improperly[sic]." However, the situation does not end at that transgression. By giving a false name and not providing ID the ranger detained him, more than likely to radio in the information he gave her. Then, by walking away from her he made an even larger offense. Here is the crux of the situation: one cannot simply walk away from an officer when they are writing a summons. Now, a hypothetical: what is the ranger supposed to do? Her job dictates she detains this man. What are her options to complete that task? Reasoning is out, the man denied that course when he gave false information. She can let the man walk away and follow him. This, of course, is illogical and, probably, violates protocol. She can try to physically stop him. The problem here is she is open to attack from the man. Finally, she can "'deploy her' electric-shock weapon" to stop the offender. It is logical that this is the last choice. The man picked this path. At several points he could have changed the outcome of this situation. This man deserves derision, not the ranger; who did her job.

    Did you even read the article? Did you somehow miss the eyewitness accounts?

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Did you even read the article? Did you somehow miss the eyewitness accounts?
    I'm 100% with you honkinunit. Tazing for this offense is unjustifiable. I'm stunned (forgive the pun) that so many of the members here take this excessive force so casually. Why, I don't know. You see an eerie acceptance of abuse of power so often these days.

    Also of note from the article, after the tazing: "San Mateo County sheriff's deputies and paramedics then arrived and Hesterberg gave his real name, the park spokesman said..." which begs the question why weren't the deputies simply called first -- without any tazing? Had that been the case the paramedics would not have to have been called at all. D'uh. Jeeeeeezus.

    Last but not least, how 'bout these enforcement activities be done with two Rangers, one on the trail and one at the parking lot? The Trigger-happy Rangerette could have simply radioed down a description to her fellow officer, gotten the dude's license plate, and settled this matter rationally. Without any violence at all. What a concept.

    You guys cheering on this excessive force scare the hell outta me.

  47. #47
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    I'm not cheering any use of force. I'm, simply, saying to deride the ranger and victimize a criminal does not make sense. The man, not the ranger escalated this situation. He brought on the use of force. I've already stated how things have changed, regarding police interactions, since 9/11/2001. I used to taunt police and flaunt the law. Now, if, and I never want to, I interact with the police I use simple objective language and plenty of courtesy. Even when going through holding and booking. Never, ever, escalate an interaction with a police officer (or anyone holding a gun, for that matter).

    Calling in a police shooting and call for ambulance would bring other officers. There is not much to infer from that statement.

    Are you going to accept higher taxes to pay for more rangers? The people in California are not willing to do so. To wit, this guy is lucky that park is even open. Many state parks in CA are closed due to budget shortfalls.



    Remember, news articles are written at a 6th grade level. Meaning, they're pretty straight forward.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moustache rider View Post
    How dare this blatant flaunt disregarder feel entitled to not be detained without cause!
    Walking dogs off-leash in an on-leash area isn't cause?

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogbie View Post
    The man, not the ranger escalated this situation.
    The Ranger escalated the situation when she shot him in the back with with 50,000 volts -- as he was walking away from her.

    They BOTH acted wrong. Hopefully reasonable people can agree on that.

    Given the details in this case, my guess is that the dude will serve a few hours of community service for giving the false name and shell out $50 for the off-lease violation, and in the end the Parks Department will be writing him a much, much bigger check. If I were on the jury I'd award him $1 for every volt that was unjustifiably shot through his nervous system by this nutbag.

  50. #50
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    He should have put up with the officer and did what she asked.

    He can key her car at a later time...
    lean forward

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