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  1. #1
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    New Signs at Evrgrn Mtn/3 sisters

    Haven't been out to evrgrn mtn/3 sisters for a few weeks, hit it yesterday, on the way up evrgrn mtn from the lower parking lot, I notice a brand new sign.
    It was a triangle sign, containing the familiar yeild diagram, showing that mtn bikes have to yeild to all other trail users, but it was a bit different than the normal yeild signs as it had in much larger and bolder text across the the top, MTN BIKERS, accompanied by "yeild to other trail users" added around the familiar diagram.

    You know, I don't really mind the standard yeild signs, or the ones that "suggest" that we walk by horses, but this one, as it was directed only to mtn bikers, seemed a bit discriminatory, as if we are the only trail users that need correcting.

    did I miss something? has there been some conflict at this open space?
    Last edited by btadlock; 08-29-2007 at 12:30 PM.
    BT
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  2. #2
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    I ride that dedisse - 3 Sisters - Evergreen Mountain loop at least 3 times a week and have never had any problems with horses or hikers on 3 Sisters or Evergreen Mtn...Dedisse I have had many encounters mostly with people walking mutliple dogs off leashes or non-knowing hikers..who I always yield to. If anything it seems to me it would make more sense to have that sign near Dedisse vs. where it is. I will be out there in a couple of hours so I will have to check it out.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by btadlock
    but this one, as it was directed only to mtn bikers, seemed a bit discriminatory, as if we are the only trail users that need correcting.

    did I miss something? has there been some conflict at this open space?
    Let's not be over dramatic, now... I personally see no problem with the emphasis.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    Let's not be over dramatic, now... I personally see no problem with the emphasis.
    not trying to dramatic, just found it a bit curious that is was only directed at mtn bikes.
    BT
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  5. #5
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by btadlock
    not trying to dramatic, just found it a bit curious that is was only directed at mtn bikes.
    Come on... do you really? How long have you been riding the FR of Colorado?

  6. #6
    J\V
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    I can't remember the last time I was run off a trail by a hiker or equestrian, but I need two hands to count the number of times this year my 'space' has been invaded by other bikers...

    Makes sense to me.
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  7. #7
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    Same thing on Chimney Gulch.

  8. #8
    The Notorious S.L.O
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    Come on... do you really? How long have you been riding the FR of Colorado?
    I have been riding in the front range since my arrival in Co in 2001, with Evrgrn mtn/3 sisters being "home court", with at least 10 rides there a month.
    I am fully aware of the animosity of the front range trail users towards mountain bikers, but to have an official, JCOS sign, apparently directed toward mtn bikers, is not something that I had encountered.

    I am not sure I understand your comment, challenging my perception of the sign and somehow based upon my riding history? not sure why you felt it necessary to respond to a observation with a challenge to me personally
    BT
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by btadlock
    I have been riding in the front range since my arrival in Co in 2001, with Evrgrn mtn/3 sisters being "home court", with at least 10 rides there a month.
    I am fully aware of the animosity of the front range trail users towards mountain bikers, but to have an official, JCOS sign, apparently directed toward mtn bikers, is not something that I had encountered.

    I am not sure I understand your comment, challenging my perception of the sign and somehow based upon my riding history? not sure why you felt it necessary to respond to a observation with a challenge to me personally
    So you've been riding here for 6 years and you're surprised that the sign is "targeting" mt bikers? I've been here since '93 and discourteous mt bikers outnumber other discourteous trail users about 400:1. Has your experience been different?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    So you've been riding here for 6 years and you're surprised that the sign is "targeting" mt bikers? I've been here since '93 and discourteous mt bikers outnumber other discourteous trail users about 400:1. Has your experience been different?
    sorry that you find my reaction to the sign incredulous, I guess I will keep my opinions and observations to myself to till I reach the appropriate time in the front range.
    BT
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by btadlock
    sorry that you find my reaction to the sign incredulous, I guess I will keep my opinions and observations to myself to till I reach the appropriate time in the front range.
    I'm just surprised you're surprised.

  12. #12
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    And So???

    If you arent seeing the large signs reminding Dog and their Lovers to pack out the crap, and stay on a 2 foot leash.....or to the Horses and their Lovers to pack out their effluence and leave no trace....

    It don't matter cause most of us are blind to signs that are only for the Blind.

    Sanitize...buffitize...sign-o-scribe....who cares? Just more ways your tax dollars are being burned up for nought!.

    Peace

    PS most of us respectful MTB'rs can't read anywho.
    C.SPRINGS

  13. #13
    DWF
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    I keep waiting for the signs saying we can start shooting horses & their owners for letting their overgrown, obnoxious, pets foul our trails with ~their~ waste.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  14. #14
    DWF
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    So you've been riding here for 6 years and you're surprised that the sign is "targeting" mt bikers? I've been here since '93 and discourteous mt bikers outnumber other discourteous trail users about 400:1. Has your experience been different?
    I've been here since '89 and I've never seen a MTB'er take a dump in the middle of the trail.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    I've been here since '89 and I've never seen a MTB'er take a dump in the middle of the trail.
    You must not ride very much.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    I've been here since '89 and I've never seen a MTB'er take a dump in the middle of the trail.
    Just look at what the horses have done to White Ranch. Not only have they damaged the trail big time but the huge piles of dung have cause massive amounts of flies to hatch. I think its some private operation being run out there for fat Texas tourists. Come to think of it, everybody I've seen on those pack rides at WR has been nice and fat.

  17. #17
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    So are we looking at other users actions, mountain bikers included, to somehow give us an excuse to not do the right thing? We should all have a sense of personal integrity in our practice of sharing the trail with other users. Maybe we should ask the park managers, rangers or whatever, their take on the amount of user conflicts they have to deal with. We owe it to ourselves to police ourselves & hold each other accountable to practice good trail etiquette. We surely don't want the park rangers and managers to deal with our stink, because ultimately they have no recourse to settle the whole issue by shutting down the whole damn trail to mountain biking or limiting their use. Historically, this has proven to be true. Unfortunately, this possibly might play a small part in what's happening with Continental Divide/Colorado Trail issue right now. Personally, I have been mountain biking along the Front Range since 1985 and I have seen an increase in rude and self centered behavior more so in the last 5 years than any other time. I come across riders who just don't know the rules for sharing and caring for the trails. Or they just don't give a damn. Be glad it's just a sign at this point. Peace out and be cool!

  18. #18
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    I guess I don't really have a good reason to post this but what the hell. I was riding Pence Park / Lair O' The Bear this morning and noticed the same type of sign at the bottom of the trail. It really does not bother me I guess. I came across 2 hikers at a blind corner unexpectedly ( it was 6:20 am so I thought the trail was all mine ;-) ) I do what I always do, let them thru. No big deal. The sign really has no impact on me since I always yield to the other transportation methods on the trails. The sign hopefully is noticed by those who do not know or do not care what the 'proper' trail etiquette is. Hell I would actually like them to post a sign with a couple of fundamental rules like

    1. you have a front brake AND are rear brake...use them together, it helps prevent the trails from washboarding

    2. Stay on the trail. No shortcutting. If you are going to yield, drop a foot. do not exit the trail. ( That trail Lair O The Bear / Pence park has grown in width to about 5 feet average from 2 feet average about 2 years ago).

    3. this is not a friggen downhill slalom course. If you want to go fast, go fast uphill.

    ...it would never happen but it sure would be a nice addition to those yield signs...maybe help educate the riders who do not know some basic etiquette...the rest who don't care, well...install nail strips?

  19. #19
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    Heres the offending sign

    Went up to evergreen for the first time, gotta say I think I have a new favorite on the front range. Back to the subject, yes I'm a little peeved that this is targeted at MTBers but I can't say I blame the forest service for targeting us on this. The BIG thing I see in this sign is outlining that a "yield" is "slow down, communicate, pass safely" not dismount and prostrate yourself to the trail users deemed superior
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  20. #20
    The Notorious S.L.O
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    Quote Originally Posted by screamingbunny
    Went up to evergreen for the first time, gotta say I think I have a new favorite on the front range. Back to the subject, yes I'm a little peeved that this is targeted at MTBers but I can't say I blame the forest service for targeting us on this. The BIG thing I see in this sign is outlining that a "yield" is "slow down, communicate, pass safely" not dismount and prostrate yourself to the trail users deemed superior
    What time of day were you there? I rode this morning, parked at the lower lot, rode 9-11 am or so.
    BT
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  21. #21
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    I saw these signs at Deer Creek Canyon and 3 Sisters this past week. I must say that I have no problem with these signs. They have really placed them in appropriate spots. I've even thought that some places in Jeffco should have speed limits signs placed (i.e. Lair of the Bear along the creek). I would however like to see signage that is directed at Hikers/Equestrians....something like.

    [SIZE="4"]Hikers & Equestrians[/SIZE]
    Heavy Mtn. Bike traffic ahead. By stepping off the trail you are surrendering right of way.

    It'll never happen though.
    Now if you're wonderin' what I think of it all, just read the back of this postcard. - WSP

  22. #22
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    Got there around 11:00, rode the sisters/fawn loop to warm up, then climbed up evergreen. I was kind of bumbed at the traffic I was seeing on the way up figuring I'd have to stop every 10 ft on the way down, but the weather turned for the worst when I got to the top and I think it scared off most people climbing, got to bomb the desent, saw like 4 folks the whole way down what a hoot!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinglePowderTrack
    [SIZE="4"]Hikers & Equestrians[/SIZE]
    Heavy Mtn. Bike traffic ahead. By stepping off the trail you are surrendering right of way.

    It'll never happen though.
    I like that. If you jump off the trail, dont give me 'tude when I go by
    It always makes me feel akward when a hiker puckers up and jumps 20ft off the trail cuz they see me 50 yards ahead. I would have stopped really, just not 5 minutes up the trail to wait for you to pass by. Makes me wonder what has happened to these guys to make them fear us so much..... Gotta be some rude peeps out there pissin in someones cerveza!
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR
    I like that. If you jump off the trail, dont give me 'tude when I go by
    It always makes me feel akward when a hiker puckers up and jumps 20ft off the trail cuz they see me 50 yards ahead. I would have stopped really, just not 5 minutes up the trail to wait for you to pass by. Makes me wonder what has happened to these guys to make them fear us so much..... Gotta be some rude peeps out there pissin in someones cerveza!
    Yeah, that's annoying. I'd rather they wait until we're closer then let me stop and let them by.

    Maybe they are trying to lay a guilt trip on us or something.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSPRINGS
    If you arent seeing the large signs reminding Dog and their Lovers to pack out the crap, and stay on a 2 foot leash.....or to the Horses and their Lovers to pack out their effluence and leave no trace....
    Interesting point. The 'yield' sign never mentions that we have to yield to dogs.

    I know that next time a dog pulls out in from of skardshtless, he's gonna mow bengie down

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